HAven't people gone off Pinnacle a little?

[sotonjoe]

With Pinnacle's constant delaying tactics and the recent news that the Swiss are in town with "proper money", I can't believe there aren't more people declaring that they've lost patience with Pinnacle and that the Swiss group are now the preferred option.

 

Has everyone really been swayed by the MLT interview that much that all is forgiven and we still think that Pinnacle are some kind of super-consortium?

 

I have my doubts.

[Snopper]

I have my doubts.

 

Me too, I`m afraid. Something still doesn`t seem quite right about Pinnacle and the Swiss option may appear to be the most `solid.` As for MLT, I hope for his sake that he isn`t let down, embarrassed or used in any way and that things turn out well for him, never mind anyone else. Whatever happens, of course, his status will be unaffected in the eyes of supporters.

 

I`ll still only believe the Pinnacle takeover when I see it and if it does happen, then I may still remain sceptical about the future.

[saint lard]

I do not know enough about Pinnacle to have concrete evidence that they are not the best option to take SFC forward but if it means SFC remains then i will take it.

 

At this moment in time my thoughts on Pinnacle are very mixed,initially i was enthused but this has somewhat diminished with the dissapointing revelations about Fialka, i really hope there is more susbstance to the "consortium" than Tony Lynam and Micheal Fialka.

[Evil Monkey]

If a deal can be done with either party tomorrow, i'd choose the Swiss. But surely they are a week or two behind Pinnacle on the road to buying Saints. For that reason I'm still on the fence with who i'd prefer. Wait a fortnight for a potentially better group, or get it done and dusted tomorrow/tuesday with Pinnacle, who despite seeming a bit amateur recently, are prefered by Mark Fry (proving they must have some decent wonga behind them)?

 

Plus they have Tiss.

[saint_stevo]

Every time i say that i think the Pinnacle bid is a time waster and that TL is a tyre kicking time waster i get lynched. And categorised.

 

Meh

[Barry the Badger]

At the end of the day nobody knows. We have no idea how much money Pinnacle have, we have no idea how much money the Swiss actually have. It's all guesswork.

 

Pinnacle do have Matt Le Tiss and at the start of the summer I would have taken a non-rich consortium scraping the money together and installing MLT as chairman.

[beatlesaint]

With Pinnacle's constant delaying tactics and the recent news that the Swiss are in town with "proper money", I can't believe there aren't more people declaring that they've lost patience with Pinnacle and that the Swiss group are now the preferred option.

 

Has everyone really been swayed by the MLT interview that much that all is forgiven and we still think that Pinnacle are some kind of super-consortium?

 

I have my doubts.

 

Until the deal is signed, sealed and delivered it is hard to say wether Pinnacle are/were all hot air and bluster or wether they are the real deal.

 

If you just look at the facts, not the in depth analysis of "if, buts and maybes" that have gone on on this forum they are thus -

 

The administrator has declared that Pinnacle have the funds to complete the deal and were announced preferred bidder.

 

The administrator stated at the end of the exclustivity period that the money was in place and the only hold up was the business with the FL.

 

the deal has been delayed whilst Pinnacle battle with the FL over what is in the best interests of their purcahse - Southampton Football Club. This has involved much legal to-ing and fro-ing between lawyers. That is it - simple as and everything else has been conjecture with the exception of the new owners appearence on Sky Sports News last Thursday (owner, singular but not necissarily only money man hence the word consortium). And even that was to have him expalin the delay.

 

To write off a consortium and their representatives whose only crime, **** me, is to buy and therefore rescue our club from oblivion without knowing the full facts is scandalous.

 

If they do fail to complete and pull out then fine, let the fireworks and accusations commence cos we will have all been let down, MLT included - probably more so - but until then.....wind ya bloody necks in

Edited 28 June, 2009 by beatlesaint

[saint_mears]

I am all for the Swiss as Pinnacle look a total joke.

[thefuriousb]

At the end of the day nobody knows. We have no idea how much money Pinnacle have, we have no idea how much money the Swiss actually have. It's all guesswork.

 

Pinnacle do have Matt Le Tiss and at the start of the summer I would have taken a non-rich consortium scraping the money together and installing MLT as chairman.

 

Bingo! and amen to that

[thefuriousb]

I am all for the Swiss as Pinnacle look a total joke.

 

of which you know nowt about?

[docker-p]

It's a case of anyone will do now I'm afraid. But from a high of a few weeks ago they have gone down a lot in my opinion. All the talk of "just ironing out a few issues, should be signed tomorrow", and "our client is worth hundreds of millions", and it still isn't signed and the moneyman is a letting agent living with his mum. Allegedly.

 

As I say, anyone will do now, but given the choice the Swiss seem to at least be real.

[Mole]

The Swiss are offering less money [for the purchase] than Pinnacle. Therefore if Pinnacle lose out it won't be because they've been pipped, it'll be because they pulled out. Pinnacle are red hot favourites to complete.

[beatlesaint]

I am all for the Swiss as Pinnacle look a total joke.

 

In fairness you know as much as the rest of us about the Swiss.......ZILCH !

So how can you decide ? You have the choice of buying one of two houses in the same road in the same town but you decide not to take a look at either of them. How do you decide which one you want then ?

[saint_stevo]

Give me-

 

 

Over-

 

[Glasgow_Saint]

Pinnacle = Kevin Keegan and loads of money to buy players like shaun goater and uwe Rosler

[66East]

It's a case of anyone will do now I'm afraid. But from a high of a few weeks ago they have gone down a lot in my opinion. All the talk of "just ironing out a few issues, should be signed tomorrow", and "our client is worth hundreds of millions", and it still isn't signed and the moneyman is a letting agent living with his mum. Allegedly.

 

As I say, anyone will do now, but given the choice the Swiss seem to at least be real.

 

 

I hope your right, but what do we know about them, and what are their intentions?

[sotonjoe]

I think some of the concerns about Pinnacle are as follows ...

 

1) The finances and where they are coming from. Different statements over the last couple of weeks have contradicted each other in terms of whether the finances are coming from an individual or a group. Questions directed at Lynam about this have been ignored. The guy released by Pinnacle in the media as a money man doesn't fit the typical image that we expect and there have been some dodgy rumours about him.

 

2) The FL business seems odd and could be a smoke screen for other problems with the deal.

 

It could be possible that the Swiss have been working hard over the last couple of weeks and are ready to make an offer. I just wonder that if the the Swiss can match the amount of money offered by Pinnacle for the club, whether Fry will opt for them after being messed around so much by Pinnacle.

 

I know the MLT factor still makes it hard for some people to dismiss or lose faith in Pinnacle. But perhaps he doesn't know the full story about where their funds are coming from anyway. Perhaps he's been fed the same lines as the rest of us and has acted in good faith?

 

I don't care who buys us as long as they turn out to be sound. However, I think we should be a lot more dubious about Pinnacle at this moent in time than some people are.

[saint_stevo]

Some of the concerns about Pinnacle -

 

Tony Lynam

[AwaySaint1]

In regards to the OP,I was never happy from the start,as time has gone on we are seeing posts from the Pineapple group getting closer and closer to being signed off with a great big "COYR"

 

I get the feeling that the group think they will be able to appease the fans with a few rousing calls like we have got used to in the echo the last few years.

 

Am I wrong in always thinking that Saints fans are a little more astute and passionate that the average teams fans ?

Edited 28 June, 2009 by AwaySaint1

[Burger]

I think we should be a lot more dubious about Pinnacle at this moment in time than some people are.

 

A skate ruse where they selected a gullible front man (TL), sucked in the one man that would get 100% supporters behind them, got Crouch to fund it......then dragged it out until it was too late for anyone else. Can't be more dubious than that

[wild-saint]

personally I couldnt care if lowe came an bought the club right now. The fact is after nearly 90 days we havent managed to find a buyer. We are 5.5 days away from not having a team to watch. Its getting serious and i want to watch saints next season whoever owns us.

 

In addition we know next to nothing about any of the bids so how can we make an formed choice. Im just praying for a buyer, any buyer.

[AwaySaint1]

personally I couldnt care if lowe came an bought the club right now. The fact is after nearly 90 days we havent managed to find a buyer. We are 5.5 days away from not having a team to watch. Its getting serious and i want to watch saints next season whoever owns us.

 

In addition we know next to nothing about any of the bids so how can we make an formed choice. Im just praying for a buyer, any buyer.

 

Would you like Marc Jackson's email ? :axe:

[Gingeletiss]

Some of the concerns about Pinnacle -

 

Tony Lynam

 

You keep trotting out the mantra....and you are really quite tiresome. You have not given one concrete fact about Pinnacle, but you've now thrown your hat in the ring with the Swiss.........again, whom you know sod all about. As I've suggested in the past week Stevo.........you post for effect, and not because you're a clever so and so. Keep up the good work, your digging a big hole for yourself.

[sotonjoe]

A skate ruse where they selected a gullible front man (TL), sucked in the one man that would get 100% supporters behind them, got Crouch to fund it......then dragged it out until it was too late for anyone else. Can't be more dubious than that

 

yeh ... ok ... maybe not that dubious.

[saint_stevo]

The nothing i know about the Swiss trumps the worrying facts we know about Pinnacle.

 

Post for effect? Am i meant to fall in line and be neutral? It's my point of view.

[Mole]

You keep trotting out the mantra....and you are really quite tiresome. You have not given one concrete fact about Pinnacle, but you've now thrown your hat in the ring with the Swiss.........again, whom you know sod all about. As I've suggested in the past week Stevo.........you post for effect, and not because you're a clever so and so. Keep up the good work, your digging a big hole for yourself.

 

[saint_stevo]

Would you like Marc Jackson's email ? :axe:

 

I'll take a look

[Toadhall Saint]

I think we all have concerns especially after the last few days but what is spin and what isn't eh? Over the last 24 hours or so there have been several climb downs in opinion and that is not just from MLT/Pinnacle. For me if the deal isn't now completed by COB Tues then Pinnacle can go and take a flying one.

[Gingeletiss]

The nothing i know about the Swiss trumps the worrying facts we know about Pinnacle.

 

Post for effect? Am i meant to fall in line and be neutral? It's my point of view.

 

 

Stevo...........what do we know about Pinnacle, forget rumour, forget conjecture......what hard facts do you know. I have seen a lot of posturing on here, but very few hard facts. Many of the 'ITK's' went quiet for a time, and are now back with their 'I knew that' statements.

 

So facts matey......lets hear them.

[Mole]

Start by reading this Stevo. Facts from the horses mouth.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4462780.Fry_happy_Fialka_wealth_is_real/?ref=rss

[Legod Third Coming]

This is not about preferring one bid over another because of whom they have involved or how they behave. This has to be about WHO HAS MOST MONEY.

 

And unfortunately Mr Fry doesn't care.

 

You see, his role is to SELL THE CLUB.

 

What happens after it's sold is not his primary concern. His concern is garnering the best price for his creditors.

 

So, it may well be a case of whomever puts up the money to buy the club first, rather than who has most to invest in it thereafter.

[Gingeletiss]

This is not about preferring one bid over another because of whom they have involved or how they behave. This has to be about WHO HAS MOST MONEY.

 

And unfortunately Mr Fry doesn't care.

 

You see, his role is to SELL THE CLUB.

 

What happens after it's sold is not his primary concern. His concern is garnering the best price for his creditors.

 

So, it may well be a case of whomever puts up the money to buy the club first, rather than who has most to invest in it thereafter.

 

 

That has always been the case.......maybe it was good to refresh a few memorys on here.......

 

Disagree about the most money bit........not always the case....IMO of course.

[Mole]

This is not about preferring one bid over another because of whom they have involved or how they behave. This has to be about WHO HAS MOST MONEY.

 

And unfortunately Mr Fry doesn't care.

 

You see, his role is to SELL THE CLUB.

 

What happens after it's sold is not his primary concern. His concern is garnering the best price for his creditors.

 

So, it may well be a case of whomever puts up the money to buy the club first, rather than who has most to invest in it thereafter.

 

The wealthier owner isn't guarenteed to spend more. The Wealtheir owner isn't guarenteed to make better decisions.

 

For me having MLT as chairman is worth the weight in gold, and in Matts case we're talking a lot of bullion.

[Legod Third Coming]

The wealthier owner isn't guarenteed to spend more. The Wealtheir owner isn't guarenteed to make better decisions.

 

For me having MLT as chairman is worth the weight in gold, and in Matts case we're talking a lot of bullion.

 

Sadly, my friend you are wrong...

 

Good intentions with empty pockets are not worth half of bad intentions with full pockets.

 

That is how modern football works.

 

You need a budget to spend and get things wrong.

 

Football is not a science (despite SCW...) and deep pockets are a pre-requisite for success.

[Gingeletiss]

The wealthier owner isn't guarenteed to spend more. The Wealtheir owner isn't guarenteed to make better decisions.

 

For me having MLT as chairman is worth the weight in gold, and in Matts case we're talking a lot of bullion.

 

Mole...........agreed. Take Newcastle.....their illustrious Billionaire promised to put in 30 million a year, and where are they now. One suggestion is that he will sell all the players (fire-sell), then put the club into admin. That I'd love to see........I'd love to see how the FL conduct themselves then.

 

IMO of course.

[saint_stevo]

Stevo...........what do we know about Pinnacle, forget rumour, forget conjecture......what hard facts do you know. I have seen a lot of posturing on here, but very few hard facts. Many of the 'ITK's' went quiet for a time, and are now back with their 'I knew that' statements.

 

So facts matey......lets hear them.

 

Is the fact that it has taken them 9 days past the exclusivity and still not completed not enough fact? They had the the club at there mercy for the 3weeks when no-other parties could talk to the admins about the purchase and over a week after that we still wait, and all we have is a few wordy responses from TL

[ART]

The wealthier owner isn't guarenteed to spend more. The Wealtheir owner isn't guarenteed to make better decisions.

 

For me having MLT as chairman is worth the weight in gold, and in Matts case we're talking a lot of bullion.

 

Pull the other leg! You should have said that inexperienced well wishers will more than likely only ensure the club falls once again into Administration and further relegation. Money doesn't necessarily buy success. Let's wait and see first if the deals go through, and then who might be the choice of manager.

[RonManager]

This is not about preferring one bid over another because of whom they have involved or how they behave. This has to be about WHO HAS MOST MONEY.

 

And unfortunately Mr Fry doesn't care.

 

You see, his role is to SELL THE CLUB.

 

What happens after it's sold is not his primary concern. His concern is garnering the best price for his creditors.

 

So, it may well be a case of whomever puts up the money to buy the club first, rather than who has most to invest in it thereafter.

 

Agreed. To my mind, Fry has always seemed to portray a certain understanding of the emotional side of this otherwise purely business takeover and may have used that as an unspoken criteria throughout this saga. Who knows, he may even have become, by osmosis, a Saints supporter!

 

Does anyone know if he has been involved in football takeover before?

[Gingeletiss]

Sadly, my friend you are wrong...

 

Good intentions with empty pockets are not worth half of bad intentions with full pockets.

 

That is how modern football works.

 

You need a budget to spend and get things wrong.

 

Football is not a science (despite SCW...) and deep pockets are a pre-requisite for success.

 

Why's he wrong, and you're right....that's half the problem on here. His opinion is a valued one, your's may be the right one......but they are opinions. I have crossed swords with a few these last couple of weeks....not for their opinions as such, but for the manner in which they are presented.

[Neil]

The most important thing is obviously that the takeover happens (obviously) and that the goodwill of the fans is ensured, so shedloads of Season Tickets are shifted and the club is metaphorically given back to the city (sorry for cliche).

 

I'm prepared to have 5 years or more of shoestring existence if that's what it takes to keep SFC alive, the money can wait.

[Gingeletiss]

Is the fact that it has taken them 9 days past the exclusivity and still not completed not enough fact? They had the the club at there mercy for the 3weeks when no-other parties could talk to the admins about the purchase and over a week after that we still wait, and all we have is a few wordy responses from TL

 

Enough fact for what???, to p*ss of a desperate fan base...then yes..to be accused of all sorts of cr*p on here.. then no..

 

Facts Stevo.......come on, why are they the dogs d*ck you are portraying them to be.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

My enthusiasm for Pinnacle has admittedly dulled but I do hope that they sort things quickly this coming week. Maybe the appearance of the Swiss on the horizon will have gelded them into realising what the whole thing is about? That they may lose this battle with the FL, then regroup and fight things from within the system? If, as they say, they have money for investment in the team then ten points may not be such a problem. i really do think the argument was more about the FL hitting us for more. As I said elsewhere I think that maybe a gentlemen's agreement has been reached.

[Mole]

Pull the other leg! You should have said that inexperienced well wishers will more than likely only ensure the club falls once again into Administration and further relegation. Money doesn't necessarily buy success. Let's wait and see first if the deals go through, and then who might be the choice of manager.

 

So MLT doesn't have experience of football?

 

So Michael Fialka's wealthy relatives have made their money by being mugs?

 

Get in the real world ART and understand that amateurs don't suddenly come up with £15,000,000.

[Legod Third Coming]

Why's he wrong, and you're right....that's half the problem on here. His opinion is a valued one, your's may be the right one......but they are opinions. I have crossed swords with a few these last couple of weeks....not for their opinions as such, but for the manner in which they are presented.

 

He's wrong but I wish he was right - does that help?

 

Look at modern football and tell me how well-wishers with the best interests of their club at heart can possibly be better than someone with deep pockets??

 

You (I think) talked about Ashley and how deep pockets did not work there, and I agree money is no guarantee of success. But it's a hell of a lot more likely to lead to success, that's a given.

 

No-one doubts MLT's passion for this club - he owes it nothing, we owe him everything.

 

But a great man with no experience of running a football club on a shoe-string, versus a successful businessman running the club on deep pockets - is surely a no-brainer??

 

Ashley was on a hiding to nothing at Newcastle and is a berk for failing to carry out proper due diligence and then not listening to advice from those around him (including other Chairmen such as Dave Whelan) who encouraged him to leave the stands and sit in the boardrooms so he could LEARN from other Chairmen. He is, if you like, the worst type of owner - a fan with deep pockets!!! That said, he does at least have the money to put things right.

 

Football is a gamble and the most successful gamblers have the ability to fund their losing streaks... as I know to my cost!!!

 

No offence to anyone I disagree with - that's the beauty of this forum.

[Gingeletiss]

LTC.........no, that's good, it's called debate!!.

 

Many moons ago, when I first got into football with any degree of understanding, money didn't come into it. A decent chairman, could run a club on a shoestring. Sky has f*cked that all up, so in part you are right, if you want to be top dog, you need money. That said, there are many clubs operating in the PL on 'shoestrings' and getting by.....we did, but one mistake and POW!!!...........that was us done for. This will happen to many more clubs yet.......

[Nineteen Canteen]

Time will tell if Fialka proves to be the catalyst to save or be saviour of this club. The question remains will it take 48 hours or 48 weeks but IMO if we go the Pinnacle route the Lowe years (all of them) will seem but a distant memory of happier times.

 

I suppose Fialka has a potential link to retail backing but it's hardly of Mike Ashley proportions is it? Until his wealth or access to wealth is proven in Swiss I trust.

 

Bring on the Swiss and Wotte for Football Chairman its time we started getting professional about all this instead of romantic hope and notions.

[Legod Third Coming]

LTC.........no, that's good, it's called debate!!.

 

Many moons ago, when I first got into football with any degree of understanding, money didn't come into it. A decent chairman, could run a club on a shoestring. Sky has f*cked that all up, so in part you are right, if you want to be top dog, you need money. That said, there are many clubs operating in the PL on 'shoestrings' and getting by.....we did, but one mistake and POW!!!...........that was us done for. This will happen to many more clubs yet.......

 

I don't blame SKY. I was in sports marketing for a while and was presented with sponsorship and rights deals to review (not from a legal framework - not that bright, sadly) but the key lesson was always "Sell the milk with the cream".

 

The FA allowed the bigger clubs to dictate to them the terms of the Premiership and then allowed all the cream to be sold without the milk.

 

Couple this with the Bosman ruling handing all the control of assets to the player himself and the funding model for football was turned on it's head overnight.

 

You should hear people like Rodney Marsh talking about their requests for pay-rises, and how they would find themselves on the transfer list the following morning!!!

 

But here's our problem. Do we stick to some principled belief that we can buck the trend or do we join 'em?

 

My view? You cannot change the music from outside the party. Get inside and then whisper in the DJ's ear...

[Gingeletiss]

See........I do blame Sky..........KP came over here with a view about our national sport. He got it right, and the demand for watching Football on the small screen went from a yearning, to a reality. They had the football clubs and authorities by the balls......now we see the damage done through greed.

[Block 5]

Does anyone know if the Swiss are even real?

[Nineteen Canteen]

LTC.........no, that's good, it's called debate!!.

 

Many moons ago, when I first got into football with any degree of understanding, money didn't come into it. A decent chairman, could run a club on a shoestring. Sky has f*cked that all up, so in part you are right, if you want to be top dog, you need money. That said, there are many clubs operating in the PL on 'shoestrings' and getting by.....we did, but one mistake and POW!!!...........that was us done for. This will happen to many more clubs yet.......

 

One mistake and POW the fans removed their support and trusted a new 'investor' whose wealth turned out to be unproven. I would have thought that those fans and Crouch who deserted Lowe would be wary of history repeating itself but now the situation is so grave we have no choice but to accept what I guess we deserve.

 

Sky did it screw it up for less well off clubs like ourselves and I agree with your opinion and as a result relegation became an inevitable occupational hazard, recovery from which required prudence from the board and strong support from the fans. Unfortunately, one without the other wouldn't work and so it proved.

 

There are also many clubs who appear to have plenty of financial resources who can't survive in the Premier League and yet I doubt there would be many on here who would have supported Gibson's actions this season had Saints been in Middlesborough's situation. Every club has a culture and ours is definitely based in deluded theories and impatience.