Belgiansaint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 With the Chelsea transfer ban lifted and a possible spending spree in January, have Saints' chances to extend Mellis's loan / sign him on a permanent basis increased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 With the Chelsea transfer ban lifted and a possible spending spree in January, have Saints' chances to extend Mellis's loan / sign him on a permanent basis increased? I would think the chances of having him available for Round 2 ofthe FA Cup have increased. Beyond that we will have to see if he plays enough for our first team for him to even want to stay. That England tornament did him no favours as far as his place in the team goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I could see us perhaps making a move for him if Morgan kicks up a fuss about leaving again in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musesaint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 With the Chelsea transfer ban lifted and a possible spending spree in January, have Saints' chances to extend Mellis's loan / sign him on a permanent basis increased? In a nutshell ..Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 Forgive me for offering the humble opinion that he isn't good enough. I think he has mostly struggled to command a starting place in L1, so what is the future for him higher up in the leagues. I have remained unimpressed by him and will be quite happy to see him going back to Chelsea in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 Would we want him permanently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 If he was this starlet Chelsea seem to think he is then he'd be a permanent fixture in our side. Would be nice to see him stay untill the end of the season incase Schneiderlin or Hammond get injured but I can't see him wanting to sit on a bench all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 Would we want him permanently? My thoughts entirely. He's finding it hard to get himself into the first team and when he does, when does he contribute to the point where we all think "blimey, AP has a selection headache next match"??? Fact is the lad is pretty mediocre IMO and will be found out when we go up to the CCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belgiansaint Posted 7 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I should obviously have added "if he fits the bill" :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team-saint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I could see us perhaps making a move for him if Morgan kicks up a fuss about leaving again in January. He's never kicked up a fuss about leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I can't imagine AP would offer a contract to, or pay the wages for, anybody who might be able to provide "cover", especially a youngster from Chelsea, who is to "milky" for competitive football, as we once use to say. We definitely need another midfielder, who could do for what Wootton is doing for us, but in the longer term. AP will know where to find one of those, I'm sure. With so many players in the squad who will never see a first team berth we need players who'll bang on the door with both fists and demand a place, like Hammond, Trotman and Harding, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 Was doing very well just before that tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 He is a very good player and has a very good pedigree, he has not quite fitted in with the way that we play yet however if we could get a player of his potential for a reaasonable fee than i don't see why not. He is a great little player, just remember Lallana and Morgan were struggling last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 League 1 probably doesnt suit him, would be better in the Championship, and probably better again in the PL. Good player IMO, technically very good. I wonder what some people look at when judging players, and if those judging him ever played the game to any sort of decent standard..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 League 1 probably doesnt suit him, would be better in the Championship, and probably better again in the PL. Good player IMO, technically very good. I wonder what some people look at when judging players, and if those judging him ever played the game to any sort of decent standard..... I agree with you, unfortunately, makes me cringe inside.... But yeah, there have been a lot of posts on SWF about players being bad etc etc and when you look at them as a football fan that actually understands the game you can see their potential. Remember all the Lallana must go threads ?? Pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I also find that unfortunate. I need a shower. I guess some of those who criticise players who probably have a future at the top level of the game (Lallana, Schneiderlin, probably Mellis) are the people who were last pick for football, and who never had the ability to play, so they sit at home and watch instead and judge players on the wrong attributes. Sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I also find that unfortunate. I need a shower. I guess some of those who criticise players who probably have a future at the top level of the game (Lallana, Schneiderlin, probably Mellis) are the people who were last pick for football, and who never had the ability to play, so they sit at home and watch instead and judge players on the wrong attributes. Sad I can agree with that, i struggle to figure out how your knowledge has come from though ?? Have you stolen the opinions of people that have played at a decent level then ?? :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I can agree with that, i struggle to figure out how your knowledge has come from though ?? Have you stolen the opinions of people that have played at a decent level then ?? :cool: I wont even bother to mention my exploits at the top of the game, until my career was cruelly cut short by injury (and yours as well....?) Oh, turns out the surgeon who operated on me, has now been hired by the German F.A as a consultant on lower limb injuries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I think Chelsea have missed a bit of a trick here. Having their ban lifted, albeit temporarily, will mean they do go on a big spending spree, and some of the younger players will want out. Mellis and Cork are two very good players, from what I saw at Selhurst Park last season, Cork was the only player on the pitch that looked CCC standard. I wouldn't be suprised to see them shipped out if Chelsea bring in new players, and of course having Mellis on loan, as long as he's happy, is a big plus for us. Someone on here said Preston are likely to recall Trotman in January, which if true is a mistake, but as with most players, they'd rather be playing, and if that means that Trotman isn't getting games, it plays into our hands with signing him permanently. (Same with Antonio.) It goes without saying we should make them as happy as possible to be here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 7 November, 2009 Share Posted 7 November, 2009 I wont even bother to mention my exploits at the top of the game, until my career was cruelly cut short by injury (and yours as well....?) Oh, turns out the surgeon who operated on me, has now been hired by the German F.A as a consultant on lower limb injuries! Fair play, think i need another op Not played for 3 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 8 November, 2009 Share Posted 8 November, 2009 League 1 probably doesnt suit him, would be better in the Championship, and probably better again in the PL. Good player IMO, technically very good. I wonder what some people look at when judging players, and if those judging him ever played the game to any sort of decent standard..... If players can only be judged by other players or ex-players with a professional or semi-professional players, then we are in a sad state of affairs. As if banks can only be judged by banks. Mellis looked lost playing wide and contributed very little. The first time he looked OK was against Bristol Rovers as one of two offensive CMs, but he forgot to defend and was the cause for two of the Rovers goals. This he hasn't improved much upon, but Lallana picked it up in his place. Then he went away with England. I think you're suffering from believing that the comparative lack of skill in the lower leagues are somehow only suitable for other players short in that department. Personally I can't see a difference between the top third of L1 and the bottom half of the CCC. Mellis' skills should have shone. And from where comes the notion that CMs in the Prem or CCC don't have to defend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 November, 2009 Share Posted 8 November, 2009 If players can only be judged by other players or ex-players with a professional or semi-professional players, then we are in a sad state of affairs. As if banks can only be judged by banks. Mellis looked lost playing wide and contributed very little. The first time he looked OK was against Bristol Rovers as one of two offensive CMs, but he forgot to defend and was the cause for two of the Rovers goals. This he hasn't improved much upon, but Lallana picked it up in his place. Then he went away with England. I think you're suffering from believing that the comparative lack of skill in the lower leagues are somehow only suitable for other players short in that department. Personally I can't see a difference between the top third of L1 and the bottom half of the CCC. Mellis' skills should have shone. And from where comes the notion that CMs in the Prem or CCC don't have to defend? I don't think he meant ex-players etc can only comment but there are a lot of silly comments on here. A player can easily not be suited to a division, skill is one thing but certain leagues need other attributes and also you need to be used to playing against certain opponents. Mellis clearly has a future, he has good skill and a good touch, something i have championed before. Close control, good technique, decent touch etc is something only the very best have in abundance, very little attacking players can get away with a lack of it (part of the reason i was never massively impressed with beattie) But then these are the sort of posters, as i said before were quick to judge Lallana and Morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 8 November, 2009 Share Posted 8 November, 2009 yeah, wat the smirking moron said..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 8 November, 2009 Share Posted 8 November, 2009 I don't think he meant ex-players etc can only comment but there are a lot of silly comments on here. A player can easily not be suited to a division, skill is one thing but certain leagues need other attributes and also you need to be used to playing against certain opponents. Mellis clearly has a future, he has good skill and a good touch, something i have championed before. Close control, good technique, decent touch etc is something only the very best have in abundance, very little attacking players can get away with a lack of it (part of the reason i was never massively impressed with beattie) But then these are the sort of posters, as i said before were quick to judge Lallana and Morgan. One european team I know of had three conditions for signing a new player: Technique, pace and character. Mellis had got technique, has got average pace for his position, but in my mind seems to lack the character to succeed. I had some doubts about Lallana and Morgan too in the early part of the season, but has changed my mind, especially Lallana. To spend money on the signing of a player which have suspected flaws in his makeup in spite of having been here for several months to prove himself doesn't look very wise to me. The suggestion that we still ought to do it and to use him as a back up seems absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 November, 2009 Share Posted 8 November, 2009 I have never said that we should sign him as back up, only that we should sign him for his future potential ?? So in your opinion all signings should be made in order to fit straight into the first 11 ?? The fact that you failed to see Lallana and Morgans obvious talents lead me to believe that perhaps you look at the wrong things, and miss the subtleties that some notice in the make up of future talents etc. On the flipside, there is nothing wrong with signing decent back up players, you only have to observe Liverpools obvious failings (their bench) to notice that they are not serious contenders, probably until Benitez leaves. You need adequate protection on the bench and also need differing dimensions and strategies, football management is a minefield and is also a reason why people saying Pardew should always play 4-4-2 are missing a trick. You cannot be a one trick pony, you need a plan a,b and c. As for mellis, he has only had a handful of games, he looked good, then went to england and came back poor however he is not a wide player IMO (but then nor is Lallana). He will be a great player, he needs nurturing and confidence, watch his Youtubes and you will see his obvious talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 8 November, 2009 Share Posted 8 November, 2009 in my mind seems to lack the character to succeed. What a ridiculous thing to say. The guy is 18 years old FFS! He's learning the game and will get fitter, stronger and better. He is very well thought of at Chelsea and starred for the England U19's after putting in a very good performance for us v Gillingham. Mellis will go further in his career than just about any of our academy midfielders and it most certainly won't be at 3rd tier level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I have never said that we should sign him as back up, only that we should sign him for his future potential ?? So in your opinion all signings should be made in order to fit straight into the first 11 ?? The fact that you failed to see Lallana and Morgans obvious talents lead me to believe that perhaps you look at the wrong things, and miss the subtleties that some notice in the make up of future talents etc. On the flipside, there is nothing wrong with signing decent back up players, you only have to observe Liverpools obvious failings (their bench) to notice that they are not serious contenders, probably until Benitez leaves. You need adequate protection on the bench and also need differing dimensions and strategies, football management is a minefield and is also a reason why people saying Pardew should always play 4-4-2 are missing a trick. You cannot be a one trick pony, you need a plan a,b and c. As for mellis, he has only had a handful of games, he looked good, then went to england and came back poor however he is not a wide player IMO (but then nor is Lallana). He will be a great player, he needs nurturing and confidence, watch his Youtubes and you will see his obvious talents. I never doubted Lallanas talents, but compared with what he is producing today he struggled last season and in the beginning of this one. I don't know what it is that turns him on, but AP found it, and now the light is on all the time, and long may it continue. I admit that whilst others kept talking about Schneiderlins talents I struggled to see them. He also drifted out of the game for long periods. All this changed when he got to play offensively together with Hammond. Now the talent has started to shine, and I have changed my mind. When it comes to Mellis I am still to be convinced and am quite relaxed about whether we'll sign him or not. If we do, it means that AP has seen what I haven't. I'll bow to his expertise and will look forward to him blossoming. I have been proven wrong before and no doubt will be done so again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Is Mellis willing to be cover for Antonio ? If I were asked which loan I would prefer to be turned into a permanent signing come January, I would put them in this order : Antonio Trottman Mellis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 What a ridiculous thing to say. The guy is 18 years old FFS! He's learning the game and will get fitter, stronger and better. He is very well thought of at Chelsea and starred for the England U19's after putting in a very good performance for us v Gillingham. Mellis will go further in his career than just about any of our academy midfielders and it most certainly won't be at 3rd tier level! Very true and if he is not playing regularly Chelsea may look for another club for him to go to after Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 What a ridiculous thing to say. The guy is 18 years old FFS! He's learning the game and will get fitter, stronger and better. He is very well thought of at Chelsea and starred for the England U19's after putting in a very good performance for us v Gillingham. Mellis will go further in his career than just about any of our academy midfielders and it most certainly won't be at 3rd tier level! If he is that highly thougt of at Chelsea the whole discussion will be entirely academic, because he will stay there to eventually star with them in the PL. Of course he will get fitter and stronger, but that wasn't my concern. In the time I've spent with youngsters in both football and otherwise I have yet to see strength of character suddenly emerge in those who haven't got it. I have seen plenty of boys with the pace and technique to die for, but I wasn't much wrong in my prediction that they weren't going to make a professional grade, because they lacked the burning desire to assert themselves in the rain, in the cold, when the team was 2-0 down, when their opposite number also had talents, etc. One or two who had the desire did rather better with football as a career, even though their given technical skills weren't as great. I have seen Mellis from my seat in the stands, and couldn't possibly profess to know the lad. I also agree that he isn't a wide player. But if you nevertheless is put out wide by the boss, then you work hard and try your best, but to me it didn't look as if he did. If you're a CM you have got duties going both forward and back. I think he performed very well in the offensive role both against Rovers and Gillingham, but I am still waiting to see some enthusiasm in chasing back or putting in a tackle, and two of Rovers goals can be traced to him not bothering with his defensive duties. If AP signs him then he is seeing something I don't, and as I have said before, I'll bow to his greater expertise and look forward to what is to come. If not I won't be too disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamKimish Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 What a ridiculous thing to say. The guy is 18 years old FFS! He's learning the game and will get fitter, stronger and better. He is very well thought of at Chelsea and starred for the England U19's after putting in a very good performance for us v Gillingham. Mellis will go further in his career than just about any of our academy midfielders and it most certainly won't be at 3rd tier level! Not only did he start for England U19s but he scored in all 3 games that they played recently. I don't think enough people on this forum respect how great a talent and prospect Mellis is. He would never be cover for Antonio as they play in different positions, Jacob is more of a centre midfielder and before he went away with England, he was linking up brilliantly with Adam Lallana. Anyone that has seen him play will know how much he has improved since he first began his loan at the club. Had it not been for an unwillingness to change a winning formula, Mellis would be straight back in the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Mellis is cu*t! He can't hold a starting place and hasnt really done alot for us, but mainly because the arrogant t0sser keeps trying to **** my girlfriend lol. Sooner we ship him off back to London the better! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genk Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Is Mellis willing to be cover for Antonio ? If I were asked which loan I would prefer to be turned into a permanent signing come January, I would put them in this order : Antonio Trottman Mellis It's a tough choice. I would probably just lean towards Trotman over Antonio if I had to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 It's a tough choice. I would probably just lean towards Trotman over Antonio if I had to choose. We have Perry and Thomas. We have no other pacey midfielders, since we do not know how the Papa loan is going to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yate Saint Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Lets swap him for Cork!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 It's a shame for him that Schneiderlin, Lallana, Hammond, Antonio and Waigo have all done so well since he left to play for England and lost his starting place. Would like to see us try and keep him untill the end of the season because it's obvious one of those five midfielders will get injured, suspended, need a rest or just lose form over the season. If we could somehow sign Antonio and Mellis we'd bascially be set in midfield for a long time. Antonio - Schneiderlin - Mellis - Lallana. All under 22 and all full of potential, not really the most balanced midfield four but it could work. Hopefully Mellis gets a start against Charlton and gives Pardew some selection problems for Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Andy, you know Hammond is only 26 don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Monkey Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Andy, you know Hammond is only 26 don't you? He cant come to singles night at Mono on Friday night then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 (edited) It's a tough choice. I would probably just lean towards Trotman over Antonio if I had to choose. Depends on whether the priority is to score goals or stop the other team scoring goals. But I would have thought there are other CBs like Trottman but not many Antonios Edited 10 November, 2009 by John B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 But I would have thought there are other CBs like Trottman but not many Antonios My thinking too, but I can understand people thinking the other way round, considering how pish our defence has been for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Not only did he start for England U19s but he scored in all 3 games that they played recently. I don't think enough people on this forum respect how great a talent and prospect Mellis is. He would never be cover for Antonio as they play in different positions, Jacob is more of a centre midfielder and before he went away with England, he was linking up brilliantly with Adam Lallana. Anyone that has seen him play will know how much he has improved since he first began his loan at the club. Had it not been for an unwillingness to change a winning formula, Mellis would be straight back in the side. I am a fan of Mellis and would prefer him to stay in the team /squad. He is a lot better than some give him credit for. Like others of his age , he is still learning the game but will definitely be very good for the side...especially with all the games to come...Definitely a talent if selected as an attacking midfield player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 From what I saw of him, Mellis has been a little hit and miss since he joined, but he's still raw and learning the game so that can be forgiven. It'd be great if we could sign him permanently but I can't see that happening, so a season long loan is probably the best we could hope for. I don't think he's a contender to start any time soon with the way our midfielders are playing at the moment, but it's nice to have him as an option to bring off the bench or as back up. Would definitely would like to see us try and secure his services until the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Let's put it in another way, since Hammond was worth £400K, how much would Mellis be worth? Antonio is unlikely to cost us anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 That game against Gillingham, when he had the freedom to link with the front man and express himself I thought he was superb. I would think him to be a great assett to us, particularly if he fufilled (sp) his potental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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