Four to go up?

[Guided Missile]

Should Pompey cease to exist, it will mean that 4 teams will be promoted from our division. Given this fact, we may be closer to the playoffs than people think.

Edited 11 February, 2010 by Guided Missile
typo

[John B]

Should Pompey cease to exist, it will mean that 4 teams will be promoted from our division. Given this fact, we may be closer to the playoofs than people think.

 

That is ridiculous we are no nearer the playoffs now than we were yesterday

[Scudamore]

That is ridiculous we are no nearer the playoffs now than we were yesterday

 

Errr...yeah. But he was saying if Pompey cease to exist...?

[Matthew Le God]

Should Pompey cease to exist, it will mean that 4 teams will be promoted from our division. Given this fact, we may be closer to the playoofs than people think.

 

Likely they would promote 1st and 2nd. Then 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th would play the playoff semi and the two winners promoted. Thus Saints no closer.

[John B]

Likely they would promote 1st and 2nd. Then 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th would play the playoff semi and the two winners promoted. Thus Saints no closer.

 

Yes I agree or only relegate two from the CCC

[patred44]

If the Premier League 'lost' a club only 2 would be relegated, not 3.

The same for all subsequent leagues downwards.. and only one club would get relegated to the Conference

[SaintRichmond]

Should Pompey cease to exist, it will mean that 4 teams will be promoted from our division. Given this fact, we may be closer to the playoofs than people think.

 

The Prem/FA/FL, call it what you will, will NOT allow Portsmouth to "cease to exist"

 

ALL Clubs who are in Big Trouble with HM Tax's have been given more time

 

The "Owners" of Portsmouth are getiing just enough money, on a piecemeal basis, just to stave off being wound up

 

I think that after a few more defeats, they will go into Admin, and then be "rescued" in the same manner as Saints were. ( Yes I know that they are further in debt than we were , BUT, they can literally start with a level playing field )

 

With thier debts written off, they can flatten Fratton, and build a Brand New Stadium

 

I'm sure that is/was part of Gaymaks plans, and the reason he bought all the surrounding land

:cool:

[Scudamore]

The Prem/FA/FL, call it what you will, will NOT allow Portsmouth to "cease to exist"

 

ALL Clubs who are in Big Trouble with HM Tax's have been given more time

 

The "Owners" of Portsmouth are getiing just enough money, on a piecemeal basis, just to stave off being wound up

 

I think that after a few more defeats, they will go into Admin, and then be "rescued" in the same manner as Saints were. ( Yes I know that they are further in debt than we were , BUT, they can literally start with a level playing field )

 

With thier debts written off, they can flatten Fratton, and build a Brand New Stadium

 

I'm sure that is/was part of Gaymaks plans, and the reason he bought all the surrounding land

:cool:

 

Liquidation is not the same thing as administration

[Scudamore]

Likely they would promote 1st and 2nd. Then 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th would play the playoff semi and the two winners promoted. Thus Saints no closer.

 

The FL wouldn't give up their moneyspinning Wembley day surely.

[lenwilkins]

If the Premier League 'lost' a club only 2 would be relegated, not 3.

The same for all subsequent leagues downwards.. and only one club would get relegated to the Conference

 

That's what I read in The Times today Pat.

 

Obviously wasn't in GM's Daily Express.

[Ken Tone]

The Prem/FA/FL, call it what you will, will NOT allow Portsmouth to "cease to exist"

 

ALL Clubs who are in Big Trouble with HM Tax's have been given more time

 

The "Owners" of Portsmouth are getiing just enough money, on a piecemeal basis, just to stave off being wound up

 

I think that after a few more defeats, they will go into Admin, and then be "rescued" in the same manner as Saints were. ( Yes I know that they are further in debt than we were , BUT, they can literally start with a level playing field )

 

With thier debts written off, they can flatten Fratton, and build a Brand New Stadium

 

I'm sure that is/was part of Gaymaks plans, and the reason he bought all the surrounding land

:cool:

 

I really think they are in worse trouble than that. HMRC is out to make a point. Unless someone is mug enought to immediately throw a significant part of £11.5 million of good money after bad, and then take on the other £50 million debts, they're stuffed. And why would anyone do that ?

 

K.

[Guided Missile]

That's what I read in The Times today Pat.

 

Obviously wasn't in GM's Daily Express.

I think it's more likely I read my copy of the Times more carefully than you did, Len:

 

"The knock on effect would be felt right down the pyramid and an extra club could move up from each division."

 

This appears in the paper edition, but not in the online article, cheapskates like you read....

[once_bitterne]

They won't go out of business. HTH.

[St Landrew]

They won't go out of business. HTH.

 

Probably not, but it is perfectly possible, and Portsmouth are getting as close to going out of business as any football club is likely to. It happened with Aldershot, Maidstone, Scarborough, and Accrington Stanley. Yeah, all minnows, which is why there is such a big noise being made about this possible liquidation. Those little clubs came back in renewed guises, but Third Lanark never did.

 

As a percentage, I would say Portsmouth are 85% sure to go into administration, at this time, as the least of all evils. If still, nobody wants to buy them, from there it is a short step to liquidation, and AFC Portsmouth. Or Third Lanark and a shopping mall.

[patred44]

I think it's more likely I read my copy of the Times more carefully than you did, Len:

 

"The knock on effect would be felt right down the pyramid and an extra club could move up from each division."

 

This appears in the paper edition, but not in the online article, cheapskates like you read....

 

Did not read that in the Times.. it's a FA Ruling that covers any circumstances of a league club withdrawing from the FAPL, AND /OR Football League.

The only effect it will have is that we would gain the extra club from the Conference.

That way the number of promotions is not effected, only relegation.

Short of drawing a diagram for you GM, is there any other way it can be explained that Pompey's demise wouldn't make a jot of difference to us.. other than to cause major humour at the irony of it all.

[Foxy]

Probably not, but it is perfectly possible, and Portsmouth are getting as close to going out of business as any football club is likely to. It happened with Aldershot, Maidstone, Scarborough, and Accrington Stanley. Yeah, all minnows, which is why there is such a big noise being made about this possible liquidation. Those little clubs came back in renewed guises, but Third Lanark never did.

 

As a percentage, I would say Portsmouth are 85% sure to go into administration, at this time, as the least of all evils. If still, nobody wants to buy them, from there it is a short step to liquidation, and AFC Portsmouth. Or Third Lanark and a shopping mall.

 

Admin is being talked about a lot but it isn't an option for PFC to apply for as it was for us, once subject to a winding up order, as they are. Unless one of the creditors can apply?

 

Perhaps one of our in house pounds, shillings and pence experts could explain what the options are. My own understanding is that nwo they have to persuade HMRC to agree to a compromise (lump sum plus in stone repayment plan), find someone willing to pay off their debts or lend them cash to do so (which they can only hope to repay if someone is willing to take the kind of approach to investment my wife takes when selecting horse in the Grand National because she likes the name or it's a pretty horse) or the registrar to somehome change her view that they're trading in a position of complete insolvency.

 

So it's find a get out of gaol free card or liquidation.

 

Is this right?

[NickG]

They won't go out of business. HTH.

 

for first time, evidence yesterday -comments by professionals rather than Story teller - indicate that there is a real possibility they will

[Arizona]

Even if Pompey did go out of business, an educated guess would be they just relegate one less team from each League. I can't see a scenario whereby they would promote the top two, playoff winners and the team in 11th. Sorry. If they did promote an extra team, it would probably just be the two playoff semi winners.

[once_bitterne]

for first time, evidence yesterday -comments by professionals rather than Story teller - indicate that there is a real possibility they will

 

I would be happy to take a bet with you that there will be a club called Portsmouth FC playing in the CCC next season. (preferably with some form of points deduction).

[St Landrew]

Admin is being talked about a lot but it isn't an option for PFC to apply for as it was for us, once subject to a winding up order, as they are. Unless one of the creditors can apply?

 

OK, I wasn't aware of that clause. If that is true then they are up sh!t creek without a paddle.

[Torres]

They won't go out of business. HTH.

 

They came very, very close yesterday. Had it not been for a late submission of a witness statement from Tanya Robbins and a (probably spurious) claim of 2 takeover bids, the registrar would have wound them up.

 

Unless they can pay of large amounts of their debt to HMRC or prove without any doubt that they will be able to do so very quickly, they will be wound up at the next hearing.

[Fan The Flames]

I really think they are in worse trouble than that. HMRC is out to make a point. Unless someone is mug enought to immediately throw a significant part of £11.5 million of good money after bad, and then take on the other £50 million debts, they're stuffed. And why would anyone do that ?

 

K.

 

I don't know the motivation of these people but it happens, just look at West Ham; with the accusition costs and the accuired debt it valued the club at £110m.

[Fan The Flames]

Its more pertinant to us if it affects the relegation places rather the promotion spots.

 

If we lose to Pompey and they go bust do we get reinstated in the FA cup or does the next team get a bye.

[John B]

Even if Pompey did go out of business, an educated guess would be they just relegate one less team from each League. I can't see a scenario whereby they would promote the top two, playoff winners and the team in 11th. Sorry. If they did promote an extra team, it would probably just be the two playoff semi winners.

 

Surely they are not going to cancel the play offs

[The9]

Likely they would promote 1st and 2nd. Then 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th would play the playoff semi and the two winners promoted. Thus Saints no closer.

 

I am 99% sure that is not going to be the case. It will cost the League and their teams loads in losing the revenue of a Play-Off Final.

 

Given that the Prem will already be promoting the right number of teams to get them back to 20 next season if the Skates go under, the Football League will either leave the CCC a team short for 2010/11 and change the promotion numbers NEXT season, or they'll shoehorn an extra promotion place into Lge 1 and Lge 2 this season, with all the playoff places moving down a slot.

 

There is also the possibility of just relegating one fewer team from CCC / L1 / L2.

 

Either way, the Conference/Blue Sq Prem could then add another side for promotion as well, filling the one team vacancy in the FL.

[The9]

Probably not, but it is perfectly possible, and Portsmouth are getting as close to going out of business as any football club is likely to. It happened with Aldershot, Maidstone, Scarborough, and Accrington Stanley. Yeah, all minnows, which is why there is such a big noise being made about this possible liquidation. Those little clubs came back in renewed guises, but Third Lanark never did.

 

As a percentage, I would say Portsmouth are 85% sure to go into administration, at this time, as the least of all evils. If still, nobody wants to buy them, from there it is a short step to liquidation, and AFC Portsmouth. Or Third Lanark and a shopping mall.

 

Actually Accrington Stanley chose to resign from the league because they knew they couldn't afford it, rather than being wound up or closed by creditors : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accrington_Stanley_F.C._(1891)

 

Scarborough were in Conference North when wound up, so that opens a can of worms to include numerous other clubs.

 

I have to mention them (esp after stuffing Eastleigh 4-1 last night) but Newport County probably would have gone bust as a football league club too, but instead finished bottom of Div 3, Div 4 and were bottom of the Conference by the time they were finally wound up.

 

FWIW from the figures heard at the court yesterday I think it's 85% that they will cease to exist next week.

[The9]

Its more pertinant to us if it affects the relegation places rather the promotion spots.

 

If we lose to Pompey and they go bust do we get reinstated in the FA cup or does the next team get a bye.

 

Basically I'm totally convinced that if we lose to them we will be eliminated full stop. If they subsequently go bust the team they draw in the 6th round will get a bye.

 

However, if we go to a replay and they go bust first, then the FA will give us the bye as we won't have been eliminated.

 

There is practically no possibility of a losing side being reinstated unless the team they are playing is in breach of a specific rule on the occasion of the match (eg fielding 12 players, ineligible players etc).

[Fan The Flames]

Basically I'm totally convinced that if we lose to them we will be eliminated full stop. If they subsequently go bust the team they draw in the 6th round will get a bye.

 

However, if we go to a replay and they go bust first, then the FA will give us the bye as we won't have been eliminated.

 

There is practically no possibility of a losing side being reinstated unless the team they are playing is in breach of a specific rule on the occasion of the match (eg fielding 12 players, ineligible players etc).

 

I think you are probably right.

[Saint 76er]

They came very, very close yesterday. Had it not been for a late submission of a witness statement from Tanya Robbins and a (probably spurious) claim of 2 takeover bids, the registrar would have wound them up.

 

Unless they can pay of large amounts of their debt to HMRC or prove without any doubt that they will be able to do so very quickly, they will be wound up at the next hearing.

 

This is exactly what the registrar appeared to be saying. She stated that IHO the company was trading insolvent and that is usually the end of the line as she has a responsibility to prevent further losses to innocent third parties.

 

However, some late witness submission appears to have bought the skates a week's grace, but unless they can prove to the court that in one week they have become totally solvent for now and the future... then a winding up order appears little more than a formality.

 

The lady registrar seemed to have had enough of the skates often laughable (read wasting the court's time) delaying tactics and I really do think the game's up next week unless big money unexpectedly arrives and they can find a club bank account still open to put it in!

[St Landrew]

Actually Accrington Stanley chose to resign from the league because they knew they couldn't afford it, rather than being wound up or closed by creditors : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accrington_Stanley_F.C._(1891)

 

Scarborough were in Conference North when wound up, so that opens a can of worms to include numerous other clubs.

 

I have to mention them (esp after stuffing Eastleigh 4-1 last night) but Newport County probably would have gone bust as a football league club too, but instead finished bottom of Div 3, Div 4 and were bottom of the Conference by the time they were finally wound up.

 

FWIW from the figures heard at the court yesterday I think it's 85% that they will cease to exist next week.

 

This is what happens when I rely on my vague memory and don't check the facts.

 

At least we're agreed on a few things, including the percentage probability of Portsmouth going arse over, and I wasn't talking entirely without foundation.

[Bakovnetski]

If the Premier League 'lost' a club only 2 would be relegated, not 3.

The same for all subsequent leagues downwards.. and only one club would get relegated to the Conference

 

That sounds more plausible IMO.

 

All the way down to the equivalent of the Diadora 3rd Division which is where Aldershot re-started.

[SFC Forever]

Probably not, but it is perfectly possible, and Portsmouth are getting as close to going out of business as any football club is likely to. It happened with Aldershot, Maidstone, Scarborough, and Accrington Stanley. Yeah, all minnows, which is why there is such a big noise being made about this possible liquidation. Those little clubs came back in renewed guises, but Third Lanark never did.

 

As a percentage, I would say Portsmouth are 85% sure to go into administration, at this time, as the least of all evils. If still, nobody wants to buy them, from there it is a short step to liquidation, and AFC Portsmouth. Or Third Lanark and a shopping mall.

 

 

 

Don't forget Newport County.

Chester City could beat pompey to it.

[Chin Strain]

The Prem/FA/FL, call it what you will, will NOT allow Portsmouth to "cease to exist"

 

ALL Clubs who are in Big Trouble with HM Tax's have been given more time

 

The "Owners" of Portsmouth are getiing just enough money, on a piecemeal basis, just to stave off being wound up

 

I think that after a few more defeats, they will go into Admin, and then be "rescued" in the same manner as Saints were. ( Yes I know that they are further in debt than we were , BUT, they can literally start with a level playing field )

 

With thier debts written off, they can flatten Fratton, and build a Brand New Stadium

 

I'm sure that is/was part of Gaymaks plans, and the reason he bought all the surrounding land

:cool:

 

How do you come to that conclusion, and what makes you think the Prem / FA and PL have any control over this? HMRC will liquidate them on Wednesday unless they come up with the money that HMRC are owed, and Pompey can prove that they have the means to carry on trading on a solvent basis.

 

If that doesn't happen, they're gone. HMRC don't give a toss whether this will inconvenience other clubs / brand PL / the FA or anyone else.

[Legod Third Coming]

HMRC are out to close a 'loophole'.

 

At present, football debts take precedence over HMRC.

 

HMRC have had enough and only by winding clubs up can they become the preferred creditor.

 

This is what they are intent on doing now because clubs in admin often escape paying HMRC what they are owed.

[Legod Third Coming]

How do you come to that conclusion, and what makes you think the Prem / FA and PL have any control over this? HMRC will liquidate them on Wednesday unless they come up with the money that HMRC are owed, and Pompey can prove that they have the means to carry on trading on a solvent basis.

 

If that doesn't happen, they're gone. HMRC don't give a toss whether this will inconvenience other clubs / brand PL / the FA or anyone else.

 

That's true but I could imagine the PL 'loaning' Pompey money because they are the bottom card in the house and when they go, others will follow...

[The9]

That's true but I could imagine the PL 'loaning' Pompey money because they are the bottom card in the house and when they go, others will follow...

 

In which case they have 5 days to get that commitment or it'll be too late.

 

The PL operates for the benefit of it's member clubs, they have nothing to gain by throwing cash at a black hole for the sole purpose of appearances. If the PL suddenly becomes an "owner" of Portsmouth then they're setting a hell of a precedent for supporting appalling money management. They will not do that.

[Legod Third Coming]

In which case they have 5 days to get that commitment or it'll be too late.

 

The PL operates for the benefit of it's member clubs, they have nothing to gain by throwing cash at a black hole for the sole purpose of appearances. If the PL suddenly becomes an "owner" of Portsmouth then they're setting a hell of a precedent for supporting appalling money management. They will not do that.

 

Good point, although what I don't understand is how the court can give a business 7 days to prove it is a going concern when it had two fecking months notice of the court case during which it had ample opportunity to prove it was solvent!!!!!!

[Saint Fan CaM]

In which case they have 5 days to get that commitment or it'll be too late.

 

The PL operates for the benefit of it's member clubs, they have nothing to gain by throwing cash at a black hole for the sole purpose of appearances. If the PL suddenly becomes an "owner" of Portsmouth then they're setting a hell of a precedent for supporting appalling money management. They will not do that.

 

 

Got to agree with that. I cannot for the life of me imagine that the PL will want to be put into a position where it effectively has a controlling interest in one of it's member clubs. That would be seen as contravening at the very least the spirit and intent of independance and would be extremely objected to by all the other clubs in the league. In short, an untenable position for the PL.