Playing out from the back.

[Dr Who?]

Now I am all up for playing good football and building from the back, but sometimes today the distribution from KD was stupid. Trying to play to ball out short and receive it back again and being put under unnessasary pressure at that back. It just looked like they were told that we must not kick the ball long at all costs, in the first half.

 

We did not seem to fancy this game at all with the lashing rain from the start an the strong breeze cirlcling around the ground. We were second to every ball, and did not close the ball own at all around the edge of our box. They were up for it and very physcial and won in all areas of the park.

 

Last 15 minutes we looked much better, but never really looked like scoring.

 

But going back to the first point it just seemed like passing short for the sake of it, when sometimes a hoof up field is what is needed. We never get the balance right do we!!

 

Roll on next weeks.

[doddisalegend]

Now I am all up for playing good football and building from the back, but sometimes today the distribution from KD was stupid. Trying to play to ball out short and receive it back again and being put under unnessasary pressure at that back. It just looked like they were told that we must not kick the ball long at all costs, in the first half.

 

We did not seem to fancy this game at all with the lashing rain from the start an the strong breeze cirlcling around the ground. We were second to every ball, and did not close the ball own at all around the edge of our box. They were up for it and very physcial and won in all areas of the park.

 

Last 15 minutes we looked much better, but never really looked like scoring.

 

But going back to the first point it just seemed like passing short for the sake of it, when sometimes a hoof up field is what is needed. We never get the balance right do we!!

 

Roll on next weeks.

 

I wasn't there but the legend that is Dave Merrington said pretty much the same thing on the radio.

[the_barmy_saints_army]

Sometimes you can be the masters of your own downfall by trying to pass the ball in areas that maybe aren't conducive to doing that - the man talks sense

[Dr Who?]

Sometimes you can be the masters of your own downfall by trying to pass the ball in areas that maybe aren't conducive to doing that - the man talks sense

 

I did write the above from what I saw today, but have just read the Adkins press conference article. So he was on the sideline, surely he could get the message across to stop messing around with the ball in our own box? He must have gave the insructions in the first place to pass all the time?

 

Well at least the team are listening to him, or just proving a point.... which would be very worrying if it is the case!

[Dalek2003]

I did write the above from what I saw today, but have just read the Adkins press conference article. So he was on the sideline, surely he could get the message across to stop messing around with the ball in our own box? He must have gave the insructions in the first place to pass all the time?

 

Well at least the team are listening to him, or just proving a point.... which would be very worrying if it is the case!

 

Hello Dr, perhaps he needs a Dalek on the sidelines ?

[SouthportSaint]

I don't think it was always a case of choosing to play out from the back when a hoof was the wiser option. But if we choose to play out it has to be done properly. In the first half half hour the back four seemed to have the jitters and they were passing to the opposition, falling over and generally making the Saints fans anxious every time they were on the ball. They stuck to the passing style (although I was shouting for them to hoof it more than once) and once they settled down they were fine. I thought the distribution from the back was good in the second half - particularly using Harding to start attacks, and I was pleased they did not start hoofing when we were chasing the game. It is a new style of play for Saints and we won't get it right straight away. Let's be patient. Some of it felt like Russian Roulette but if they don't keep playing that way they won't get better at it.

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

I think there was a far bigger issue than just playing it out from the back. The issue for me was that we spent a lot of time trying to play 'nice football', whereas we need to focus on playing winning football. Obviously, being able to pass the ball around helps to do this, but not if it is just for the sake of looking nice. The simple facts of the matter are that we had about three efforts on goal in the whole game and that is simply not good enough.

 

While a few passages of passing had promise, sadly there was no end product and we tended to over-complicate things. There were too few occasions when we actually got a man wide to use pace to get past defenders and whip in a cross, especially in the first half.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of passing football and letting players use their flair to express themselves. But we are not Arsenal and if they struggle to walk the ball into the net, I don't think we are going to manage it either!

[Dr Who?]

I don't think it was always a case of choosing to play out from the back when a hoof was the wiser option. But if we choose to play out it has to be done properly. In the first half half hour the back four seemed to have the jitters and they were passing to the opposition, falling over and generally making the Saints fans anxious every time they were on the ball. They stuck to the passing style (although I was shouting for them to hoof it more than once) and once they settled down they were fine. I thought the distribution from the back was good in the second half - particularly using Harding to start attacks, and I was pleased they did not start hoofing when we were chasing the game. It is a new style of play for Saints and we won't get it right straight away. Let's be patient. Some of it felt like Russian Roulette but if they don't keep playing that way they won't get better at it.

 

Oh they were 100% playing out from the back for the sake of it. Sometimes KD was passing it to his full backs and they had a man on them already.... this was not wise.

 

Overall we tried to play football and over played at times, little passes that were not needed. I am not saying do not play football, but you do need to mix it up a bit and get the right balance.

 

Also they were a big team, and I reallyt think we needed someone to run at the back 4 and not try and hit it over them to get in behind.

 

We got the match tactics 100% wrong today, and just did not come out the traps quick enough IMO.

[Fan The Flames]

Are you guys for real, hoofing the ball is never acceptable in professional football, other than a backs to the wall defensive hoof, but never as part of build up play. Fans demanding a hoof is one of the structural problems in English football. The skill of the slow build up is to not pass too flatly all the time and to turn on the ball and move from the defensive third to the middle third and to then on to the attacking third.

 

I went to Charlton yesterday and watched Brighton expertly play this way and guess what, they won four nil and are top of the league. Not a hoof in sight. Poyet was on the radio afterwards saying that it took the Brighton fans a little while to understand.

 

Watching the game yesterday, with Brighton passing it about whilst Charlton were knocking it long was like watching old high jumpers when D*ck did his first Fosbury flop.

 

So as fans we should allow this style to develop otherwise we will be left behind.

[captainchris]

Are you guys for real, hoofing the ball is never acceptable in professional football, other than a backs to the wall defensive hoof, but never as part of build up play. Fans demanding a hoof is one of the structural problems in English football. The skill of the slow build up is to not pass too flatly all the time and to turn on the ball and move from the defensive third to the middle third and to then on to the attacking third.

 

I went to Charlton yesterday and watched Brighton expertly play this way and guess what, they won four nil and are top of the league. Not a hoof in sight. Poyet was on the radio afterwards saying that it took the Brighton fans a little while to understand.

 

Watching the game yesterday, with Brighton passing it about whilst Charlton were knocking it long was like watching old high jumpers when D*ck did his first Fosbury flop.

 

So as fans we should allow this style to develop otherwise we will be left behind.

 

Yes, well put.........

[LostBoys]

Ok but we move the ball out of the back a little slowly and this enables teams like Huddersfield to get in your face. If you can do it quicker you leave the oppo player in no mans land with the ball behind him. The other tactic we have lost at the moment is the chip over the defence puishing up for someone to run onto. Even if you cannot achieve this in the centre one over the overlapping full back eliminates him and drages the centre half out of the middle. This was where our friend from Reading was great last year.

[latter day saint]

did the midfield give enough options to the back four when KD passed out to them ? couldn't tell from the radio commentary.

[Dr Who?]

did the midfield give enough options to the back four when KD passed out to them ? couldn't tell from the radio commentary.

 

In the first half Huddersfield push well forward in a very advance stance. This did not give time for the ball to be thrown/kicked out to the full backs, before someone was right on them. When the ball is thrown or kicked out it should be for the full back to jog on to, and not wait for it to come to him. Everything from yesterday just seem to be done at half pace. What you do have to think is if they know we are going to try and play football then did they press us to stop us building from the back and by doing so surely there would be a case for a quick (not hoof) but ball forward over the defence to run onto.

 

It just seemed the team were sent out with instructions an then we did not change them. Surely this is not good.

 

I noticed Lee clarke telling his team to sit back a bit more. This was after about 50 minutes. Think he was telling them to take a bit of a breather as they were at 100% during the first half and would have tired at the end. As it was the last 15 they looked to weaken, but we could not get the goal that could have got us right back with a chance of a point!

[Saint_clark]

Ok but we move the ball out of the back a little slowly and this enables teams like Huddersfield to get in your face. If you can do it quicker you leave the oppo player in no mans land with the ball behind him. The other tactic we have lost at the moment is the chip over the defence puishing up for someone to run onto. Even if you cannot achieve this in the centre one over the overlapping full back eliminates him and drages the centre half out of the middle. This was where our friend from Reading was great last year.

 

We do now, yes. But give Adkins a little more time to work with the players, and then we might see the kind of play Brighton are achieving.

[Dr Who?]

We do now, yes. But give Adkins a little more time to work with the players, and then we might see the kind of play Brighton are achieving.

 

Not saying he will never get it right, just the main point was we needed to change the tactics slightly. Nothing wrong with trying to play football, as that is what we all want to be watching.

[leftback]

Not saying he will never get it right, just the main point was we needed to change the tactics slightly. Nothing wrong with trying to play football, as that is what we all want to be watching.

beautiful game... my arse,

playing out from the back...my arse

these are 3rd tier players,playing under massive pressure.

the favs have won this league once in 17 yrs,pressure of expectation.Players have faults whatever club you're at, and at this level the faults aren't really in the way we play, its handling the pressure of expectation,thats what i thought the early problems were this season under pardew, not scoring early against pafc, not holding the lead against the o's.I was hoping that would dissapear after rovers away,but then all the chaos started.

if NA is under orders to play a specific way by cortese, as alluded to elsewhere on here,I think we will overplay our way into another season in this godforsaken league.

[Block 5]

Hello Dr, perhaps he needs a Dalek on the sidelines ?

 

Get a room!

[shurlock]

Playing from the back isn't the problem - but when to do so. Yesterday, it worked poorly in the first half as Huddersfield chased and closed down everything (a tempo which was unsustainable); but worked extremely well in the 2nd half as they sat on their lead and tired. Can see it being a much more effective strategy at home where teams will sit back and in the second half of games -home and away- as teams begin to tire.

[OfnPanad]

I was there *sigh* as I was last season. Individually we had the better players, except Puncheon who had a shocker and should have gone off half time, also Fonte looked all at sea against the over-physical Terriers forwards.

 

I think the problem was that they were MUCH better organised. I actually counted to see if we'd come out with 10 men or they had 12! They beat us to everything in the first half.

 

Very disappointing after hearing my Dad enthuse about our performance against Tranmere.

[saintwiz]

I was there *sigh* as I was last season. Individually we had the better players, except Puncheon who had a shocker and should have gone off half time, also Fonte looked all at sea against the over-physical Terriers forwards.

 

I think the problem was that they were MUCH better organised. I actually counted to see if we'd come out with 10 men or they had 12! They beat us to everything in the first half.

 

Very disappointing after hearing my Dad enthuse about our performance against Tranmere.

 

Huddersfield are a better side than Tranmere.

[rolosfc]

I love the passing game that NA is trying to instill, but it does worry me in these sort of games where the weather/pitch etc are against us and the other team are bang up for it and put us under lots of pressure.

 

We need a happy balance and to be able to admit that sometimes, especially away from home, we need to go more direct. If NA gets the balance right we'll definitely still go up this season.

[Wes Tender]

Huddersfield are a better side than Tranmere.

 

Possibly. But then they only managed a draw against them. But Swindon beat Huddersfield, Rochdale thumped them 3-0 and Bristol Rovers beat them too. Hardly the unbeatable team are they?

[Ken Tone]

I wasn't there but the legend that is Dave Merrington said pretty much the same thing on the radio.

 

Only roughly once every 4 minutes. It became just a tad irritating ;-)

 

What worries me is that Adkins is pretty saying the same thing on the OS. Why didnt he shout at them from the sidelines to change then?

[doddisalegend]

Only roughly once every 4 minutes. It became just a tad irritating ;-)

What worries me is that Adkins is pretty saying the same thing on the OS. Why didnt he shout at them from the sidelines to change then?

 

Oh yes along with the "If saints can just score some goals they could still win this" mantra

 

Your right though Nigel has said the same thing after the match. I suppose what you need are players with the initiative to change things that aren't working off their own back while broadly sticking to the game plan. I imagine the players have had the passing out from the back drilled into them the last few weeks and just stuck to it even when it wasn't working for fear of upseting the manager. I've always wondererd how much effect managers can have from the sidelines TBH. I think times like saturday is when you need your senior players to step up and change things.

[West End Saint]

I dont think many teams will get much out of Udders at home bad day at the office we lost so be it lets move on I like the way NA is getting us playing still early days for him but I think we are on the right road.

 

Big game at home V Oldham have to get back to winning ways we all new Udders would be a tough game no reason to stop trying to play I am sure that NA will sort it out.

[Chez]

Only roughly once every 4 minutes. It became just a tad irritating ;-)

imagine the frustration of us fans that could see it happening in front of them every 4 minutes

 

What worries me is that Adkins is pretty much saying the same thing on the OS. Why didnt he shout at them from the sidelines to change then?

Absolutely. He seems to be distancing himself from the style of play. Not impressed by that. He either didn't see what the propblem was or he didn't sort it out. He can't have it both ways.

 

If we'd played it longer, and I mean a few goal kicks up the pitch rather than fannying around with it when there was no space whatsoever, then we would have stretched them enough to then go back to the passing style from the back.

 

BTW the midfield did provide an option to the defenders, but they were also tightly marked which meant more often than not the ball went back to the keeper who in turn was chased down. Sometimes a longer pass is required. Adkins cost us IMO.

[Ken Tone]

>. I suppose what you need are players with the initiative to change things that aren't working off their own back while broadly sticking to the game plan. I imagine the players have had the passing out from the back drilled into them the last few weeks and just stuck to it even when it wasn't working for fear of upseting the manager. I've always wondererd how much effect managers can have from the sidelines TBH. I think times like saturday is when you need your senior players to step up and change things.

 

Reminds me a of a game I saw at Doncaster Rovers many years ago (Don't ask). Howling gale down the pitch. The Donny keeper kicked it out every time into the teeth of the gale, so the ball flew up into the air and was blown back pretty much into his penalty area every time. He was simply too thick to think to roll it out instead.

 

Clearly at half time the manager had a go at him and asked why on earth he didn't roll it, because second half with the wind, he rolled it every bloody time!

[doddisalegend]

Fontes comments about the match and playing out from the back, quite intersting how the manager and the players all seem to think it wasn't working yet it took them 45 mins to change it

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2186711,00.html