Weston Super Saint Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 From Nick Illingsworth today.... http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3761711.Forget_Rupert_Lowe_____Saints_need_YOU_now_/ Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess, but if only Rupert would leave, we'd be able to forget all about him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Call Night Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 From Nick Illingsworth today.... http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3761711.Forget_Rupert_Lowe_____Saints_need_YOU_now_/ Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess, but if only Rupert would leave, we'd be able to forget all about him! Although I agree with your sentiments, I actually agree with Nick on this one. Too many think of it as lining his pockets, well he cannot do that until the clubs pays it's way, and right now it is hardly doing that. This issue is people have less money to spend - the ticket prices are reasonable by CCC standards, but other costs in life has risen by extraordinary levels. I think we have demonstrated that when the ground is full and the crowd do back the players then decent results can be achieved. Right now all that fans are doing is justifying the decisions to close parts of the ground thta some felt so wrong, in reality we could close the whole of the Chapel and not mis the reduced capacity (or the noise). We continually hear of Investment rumours bubbling around but as yet nothing firm has come of it until then we have to make the best of a bad hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Ah bless, dear old Nick, good intentions but why oh why did he have to get Leon Crouch's speechwriter to issue his rallying call... It doesn't work Nick, you and many others know that what you are saying is right, but the way it is said just zooms over everyone's heads and let's the more prominant political posters make more capital in all the comments columns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 16 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Although I agree with your sentiments, I actually agree with Nick on this one. Too many think of it as lining his pockets, well he cannot do that until the clubs pays it's way, and right now it is hardly doing that. The club doesn't have to do well for him to pay himself a nice juicy salary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 The club doesn't have to do well for him to pay himself a nice juicy salary What's juicy about it then?? Probably less the Lawrie Mac's "expenses". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Hang on, I thought the general consensus was that the falling attendances were nothing to do with Lowe? People on here reckon there are only a handful that aren't going because of Rupert, so how does it warrant a major story in the Echo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 16 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 October, 2008 What's juicy about it then?? Probably less the Lawrie Mac's "expenses". I have no idea how much, so cannot say.... If it is anything other than performance based, it is too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 16 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Hang on, I thought the general consensus was that the falling attendances were nothing to do with Lowe? People on here reckon there are only a handful that aren't going because of Rupert, so how does it warrant a major story in the Echo? Slow news week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Unfortunately the Saints Trust isn't well enough represented by a membership of sufficient size to issue a rallying cry holding much validity. Lowe and the Quisling are held responsible for much of the current malaise, so do not have the moral grounds to issue such a rallying cry themselves either. The only people who could realistically issue such a rallying cry that might achieve the desired effect, would be new owners, the present incumbents having sold their shares and departed. Nick: Though the credit crunch has hit fans hard up and down the country, Saints’ average attendance drop of 26 per cent this season is the second highest in the top four divisions. Among other reasons given by fans for the record low crowds at the stadium this season are results, high ticket prices and the return of PLC chairman Lowe to power. So leaving aside the intense dislike of Lowe and Wilde felt by some fans, what about the other reasons, Nick? If people feel that price levels are too high and that because of the credit crunch they cannot afford it, are you advocating that they make financial sacrifices elsewhere in their budgets to attend? Everybody who is staying away is doing so for their own personal reasons. If those reasons are based on lack of finance, then there is nothing that you or anybody else can say that can change their minds. If they stay away because of their dislike of Lowe and Wilde, or because of perceived lack of value for their money, then the solution to those reasons puts the ball back in the court of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I really really hate this guy. I'm not the type who just hates people for nothing! The reason i hate this muppet is because he talks as if every "real" fan thinks the same as he does. Or if you don't share his view then why are you at the games? Like this article for example, he obviously has no clue about what is actually happening with the fans as he assumes the reason people are not attending is down to Lowe returning. Sure there will be a fair few who are not going because of him but it will be a tiny number in comparison to those who actually can't afford to go. So where is this Nick muppet Illingsworth**** article about reducing the price of tickets to allow people to actually afford to go? Where is the article aimed at asking the board why they feel the need to keep the prices very high to watch effectivley a reserve team play? And so on. But our supposed spokesman who i forgot to mention is a muppet blames it all on the people who dislike Lowe....So now those people are to blame for us having the 2nd biggest attendence drop in all off football? (2nd to Morecombe). Could the guy get any further up Lowes Arse? Please Nick do the fans who actually bother to pay these out of control ticket prices a favour and shut the **** up. You know nothing about the club. Your prophecy of us being taken over by arabs this week came and gone. You speak for yourself and nobody else and i doubt very few if any believe the real reason we have dropped from 32k to 14k is because of Lowe returning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Unfortunately the Saints Trust isn't well enough represented by a membership of sufficient size to issue a rallying cry holding much validity. Lowe and the Quisling are held responsible for much of the current malaise, so do not have the moral grounds to issue such a rallying cry themselves either. The only people who could realistically issue such a rallying cry that might achieve the desired effect, would be new owners, the present incumbents having sold their shares and departed. So leaving aside the intense dislike of Lowe and Wilde felt by some fans, what about the other reasons, Nick? If people feel that price levels are too high and that because of the credit crunch they cannot afford it, are you advocating that they make financial sacrifices elsewhere in their budgets to attend? Everybody who is staying away is doing so for their own personal reasons. If those reasons are based on lack of finance, then there is nothing that you or anybody else can say that can change their minds. If they stay away because of their dislike of Lowe and Wilde, or because of perceived lack of value for their money, then the solution to those reasons puts the ball back in the court of the board. Your speculation and pontificating is superfluous - he is addressing those who are staying away because they object to Lowe -not because they are short of cash etc. - and anyone can issue a rallying cry; plenty do it on this and other Saints-related forums but the Echo will reach far more non-attenders, so good luck to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 (edited) just how many people are not going because of rupert lowe? i refuse to believe that the total is more than about 3-4K and i reckon that a high percentage of that figure are just using the whole lowe thing as an excuse not to go. it is about time that the club started to recognise the value of the customers that have stuck by it through the bad times and perhaps rewarded their loyalty in some way. fvck all the people who prefer to watch the directors box,fvck all the people who are staying away whilst their club go down the pan.these people are not important they are just causing rifts in the fanbase and their custom is not needed as much as they think.the club should concentrate on getting the kids and new fans through the turnstiles and forget about the stay aways,they will return when the going gets good once again or they realise that their actions are not really worth a rats arse. Edited 16 October, 2008 by lordswoodsaints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Dear Mr. Illingsworth, Please cancel my membership of the Trust forthwith. When the members of the Trust needed the leaders of the Trust to speak up, and attempt at least to wield some influence if possible, you were strangely quiet, not to say invisible. Now we are burdened with the "leadership" of Ru**rt and the Quisling, resulting in an unmitigated disaster. Now that the disaster that we all saw coming is near you finally decide to speak up? Too little, too late I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I really really hate this guy. So where is this Nick muppet Illingsworth**** article about reducing the price of tickets to allow people to actually afford to go?. But our supposed spokesman who i forgot to mention is a muppet blames it all on the people who dislike Lowe....So now those people are to blame for us having the 2nd biggest attendence drop in all off football? (2nd to Morecombe). Could the guy get any further up Lowes Arse? Please Nick do the fans who actually bother to pay these out of control ticket prices a favour and shut the **** up. You know nothing about the club. . Have you ever met Nick??? You can find him here http://www.clubfanzine.com/southampton/v2.forums.php its his site. Nick has spent a lot of time in the past out there campaigning and working for the good of the club and supporters and yes sometimes he can just appear to like the publicity but he puts himself up there just like you or I could. You are way off the mark saying he knows nothing about the club . He is not "our supposed spokesman" he is the Saints Trust spokesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Call Night Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 The club doesn't have to do well for him to pay himself a nice juicy salary It does for him to gain through dividend payments. The salary I am sure will be fairly commensurate with others in a similar position reflecting his part time role. If it isn't then he will hang himself out to dry. What's juicy about it then?? Probably less the Lawrie Mac's "expenses". LOL - you are probably so right. The principals he left for were that Lowe would not stand for such stuff, and knew he would be on a hiding to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Fandango Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I think it's a very sad reflection on some of our fans when a fellow Saints supporter tries to actually do something other than moan on an internet message board and gets horrible personal abuse because of it. Some of our fans seem to want to get involved in petty personality based arguments more than they want to support the team. I'm glad that people like these are staying away, it makes for a much better atmosphere at the stadium. Maybe if you don't agree with Nick Illingsworth, and I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, why don't you do something more constructive about it than hiding behind your keyboard and shouting down people who are at least prepared to stand up and show their faces. It's easy to be brave when you are safe in the anonymity the web offers you isn't it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bon Call Night Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Have you ever met Nick??? You can find him here http://www.clubfanzine.com/southampton/v2.forums.php its his site. Nick has spent a lot of time in the past out there campaigning and working for the good of the club and supporters and yes sometimes he can just appear to like the publicity but he puts himself up there just like you or I could. You are way off the mark saying he knows nothing about the club . He is not "our supposed spokesman" he is the Saints Trust spokesman. Spot on Ron, he does a lot of stuff for people. But people like St Marco are probably part of the 'me' generation where they won't do anything for anybody unless there is something in it for themselves. I know Nick personally and he is genuinely passionate about Saints and is a fairly nice guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Spot on Ron, he does a lot of stuff for people. But people like St Marco are probably part of the 'me' generation where they won't do anything for anybody unless there is something in it for themselves. I know Nick personally and he is genuinely passionate about Saints and is a fairly nice guy. I think this is a little unfair, Nick stated PUBLICALLY that we were about to be taken over. He should have kept his mouth shut on that as well as this Lowe artcle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Fandango Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I think this is a little unfair, Nick stated PUBLICALLY that we were about to be taken over. He should have kept his mouth shut on that as well as this Lowe artcle. Ooh lets not be unfair to poor little shrinking violet St Marco eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 The only way crowds will go up is if we go up... the league table. Lowe being here or not being here is having zero effect on the size of crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I think this is a little unfair, Nick stated PUBLICALLY that we were about to be taken over. He should have kept his mouth shut on that as well as this Lowe artcle. Well of course as he never ever posted his "takeover tomorrow" spielge on this forum he owes us no explanation. Still he must have known that it would be spread about liberally and publicly. Seems like an OK guy so he must have been seriously mislead, unless of course the money was coming from some plus values to be made on Wednesday after the markets bump started on Tuesday. This theory should not be ignored as it is the only explanation I can see as reasonable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Shot Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Spot on Ron, he does a lot of stuff for people. But people like St Marco are probably part of the 'me' generation where they won't do anything for anybody unless there is something in it for themselves. I know Nick personally and he is genuinely passionate about Saints and is a fairly nice guy. only a "fairly" nice guy? Ahem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Have you ever met Nick??? You can find him here http://www.clubfanzine.com/southampton/v2.forums.php its his site. Nick has spent a lot of time in the past out there campaigning and working for the good of the club and supporters and yes sometimes he can just appear to like the publicity but he puts himself up there just like you or I could. You are way off the mark saying he knows nothing about the club . He is not "our supposed spokesman" he is the Saints Trust spokesman. Sorry Ron but i don't buy it. I couldn't care less about this guy and his beliefs. The guy has done a lot of things for the club in terms of campaigning as you say but that does not give him the right to assume he can speak for us. I do a lot of charity work for Cancer does that mean i speak for those people? He should not be saying people should forget about Lowe and go to the games. He is implying the fans are bad. That is totaly wrong. He is implying that those people who are not going are not going because they dislike Lowe, he is implying that if they don't go it is they who are hurting the club. That is just pure ******** and i'm tired of it. The reason people are not going is because of money and the current climate in the financial world. If we had a team full of known names and were doing well the attendences would be a lot higher. If Saddam was in charge and we were 1st in the league the stadium would probably be near full. It is all about value for money and right now we are seeing just how much people are prepared to pay to watch our team. So people might disagree with me such as Carlos, fair enough that is your opinion. My opinion is a bit of campaigning to increase your ego does not make you a better fan then me. And does not give you the right to say those who are not going to games are hurting the club. The prices that the board set are hurting the club because they have priced out a lot of people. So Nick should not be slagging off people and telling them to go regardless of their views on Lowe as that is not the problem. How he gets to that is baffling. Now that is my view, most of you will disagree but that is how i see it. If i was in that position i would be using my resources and position to try and get the prices down. What is the point in having a near empty stadium? It makes more sense to lower the prices by like £5-£10 and have a bigger attendence which makes more money for the club. keeping it at the prices they are now means less gates and less money. That is what i would be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Fandango Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Well of course as he never ever posted his "takeover tomorrow" spielge on this forum he owes us no explanation. Still he must have known that it would be spread about liberally and publicly. Seems like an OK guy so he must have been seriously mislead, unless of course the money was coming from some plus values to be made on Wednesday after the markets bump started on Tuesday. This theory should not be ignored as it is the only explanation I can see as reasonable... Nick Illingsworth is aware of the people trying to carry out the takeover and his take on it if you read the whole item was that it has been in the offing for ages. The fact that the people involved are struggling to bring anything concrete to the table is in itself worrying if we think it will be the solution to our problems in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Nick Illingsworth is aware of the people trying to carry out the takeover and his take on it if you read the whole item was that it has been in the offing for ages. The fact that the people involved are struggling to bring anything concrete to the table is in itself worrying if we think it will be the solution to our problems in my opinion. I realise all of that but for such a definitive statement...then nothing... it's totally not Nick.Not a maybe,a could be,or a perhaps anywhere in sight .. the gist of the statement is it will happen and it will happen tomorrow.There are no riders which would lead one to think otherwise.I mean if it was a 10pm posting you could say" yep, he's downed a few", but not in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 If i was in that position i would be using my resources and position to try and get the prices down. What is the point in having a near empty stadium? It makes more sense to lower the prices by like £5-£10 and have a bigger attendence which makes more money for the club. keeping it at the prices they are now means less gates and less money. That is what i would be doing. There is no guarantee that lowering prices will automatically equal higher gates and more revenue for the club. For ease of demonstration, let's say the £24 adult ticket price applicable in most areas of the ground is the average ticket price throughout the whole stadium. At the moment, we're getting gates of around 15,000, which basically equates to about 6,000 matchday tickets sold. At the average price of £24, that means matchday ticket revenue of £144,000. If the ticket prices were reduced so the average price was then £20, great, particularly for those who would have gone to the game anyway. But it's not those the club are looking to appeal to, it's those that wouldn't have gone at £24. The club simply do not know how many of the stayaway fans are doing so purely because of the ticket price. There are so many different reasons why people might be staying away right now. It's entirely possible that they don't manage to entice any extra supporters back, and that then means that the club has lost £4 for every matchday sale, which would be £24k per match, nearly half a million quid over the course of the rest of the season. Even if they do entice more people in with the lower ticket price, they a) might not get enough to cover the shortfall created with the reduced price (they would need an extra 1200 fans per match to ensure they bring in the same revenue as with £24 tickets), and b) might **** off a number of existing season ticket holders as one of the main benefits of the season ticket is the financial saving you make over the course of the season, and reducing prices also reduces the saving STH's make. Without some sort of guarantee that reducing prices would bring in enough people to increase overall matchday revenue, there's not a cat in hell's chance the bank (who are basically running the club these days) would sanction any price reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 There is no guarantee that lowering prices will automatically equal higher gates and more revenue for the club. For ease of demonstration, let's say the £24 adult ticket price applicable in most areas of the ground is the average ticket price throughout the whole stadium. At the moment, we're getting gates of around 15,000, which basically equates to about 6,000 matchday tickets sold. At the average price of £24, that means matchday ticket revenue of £144,000. If the ticket prices were reduced so the average price was then £20, great, particularly for those who would have gone to the game anyway. But it's not those the club are looking to appeal to, it's those that wouldn't have gone at £24. The club simply do not know how many of the stayaway fans are doing so purely because of the ticket price. There are so many different reasons why people might be staying away right now. It's entirely possible that they don't manage to entice any extra supporters back, and that then means that the club has lost £4 for every matchday sale, which would be £24k per match, nearly half a million quid over the course of the rest of the season. Even if they do entice more people in with the lower ticket price, they a) might not get enough to cover the shortfall created with the reduced price (they would need an extra 1200 fans per match to ensure they bring in the same revenue as with £24 tickets), and b) might **** off a number of existing season ticket holders as one of the main benefits of the season ticket is the financial saving you make over the course of the season, and reducing prices also reduces the saving STH's make. Without some sort of guarantee that reducing prices would bring in enough people to increase overall matchday revenue, there's not a cat in hell's chance the bank (who are basically running the club these days) would sanction any price reduction. Not that it makes a vast difference but the actually monies perceived by the club are ticket price-VAT. It renders the gap between £24 and £20 slightly smaller in the equation.If you read through the interview between Nick I and David Luker it's all set out for you. No mention of the bank of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Sorry Ron but i don't buy it. I couldn't care less about this guy and his beliefs. The guy has done a lot of things for the club in terms of campaigning as you say but that does not give him the right to assume he can speak for us. I do a lot of charity work for Cancer does that mean i speak for those people? He should not be saying people should forget about Lowe and go to the games. He is implying the fans are bad. That is totaly wrong. He is implying that those people who are not going are not going because they dislike Lowe, he is implying that if they don't go it is they who are hurting the club. That is just pure ******** and i'm tired of it. The reason people are not going is because of money and the current climate in the financial world. If we had a team full of known names and were doing well the attendences would be a lot higher. If Saddam was in charge and we were 1st in the league the stadium would probably be near full. It is all about value for money and right now we are seeing just how much people are prepared to pay to watch our team. So people might disagree with me such as Carlos, fair enough that is your opinion. My opinion is a bit of campaigning to increase your ego does not make you a better fan then me. And does not give you the right to say those who are not going to games are hurting the club. The prices that the board set are hurting the club because they have priced out a lot of people. So Nick should not be slagging off people and telling them to go regardless of their views on Lowe as that is not the problem. How he gets to that is baffling. Now that is my view, most of you will disagree but that is how i see it. If i was in that position i would be using my resources and position to try and get the prices down. What is the point in having a near empty stadium? It makes more sense to lower the prices by like £5-£10 and have a bigger attendence which makes more money for the club. keeping it at the prices they are now means less gates and less money. That is what i would be doing. St Marco again you missed the point ...Nick is not speaking for us...he is just appealing to ALL Saints fans on behalf of the Saints Trust as their spokesman. How do you know the numbers of people that are not attending because of Lowe and how many are not attending because of finance those are big assumptions to make. All Nick is saying is that anyone who is staying away because of Lowe should realise the hurt they are doing....surely you can see that is right due to loss of revenue? Saints prices are lower than several clubs in this league. Whether or not you believe Lowe is the devil incarnate or if this action is the correct one to remove him for good the fact cannot be ignored that we are deep in the crap with only 14/5k attending - David Luker has stated that we cannot cut prices as that would mean alienating the 10k season ticket holders on renewal time so the only way forward is more bums on seats. I am not sure whether re-introducing the early bird prices on a pro rata basis would work but it might get a few more ST sold without ****ing off the current ones and more dosh in the kitty right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 This whole issue is absolute hogwash. People aren't going anymore, primarily because of the utterly drab football last season. I believe we are four to five thousand season tickets down on last season. Rupert Lowe has little significance. A small number of diehard anti Lowe agitators make a lot of noise, but it is the same few. Secondary effects are the economy, the tv results, results in general. If we continue in the same vein with respect to results, then the attendance won't improve. Unless we go on an unbeaten run, move right up the table, play attractive football and win convincingly on tv there will be no change. If Lowe and Wilde leave and nothing else changes crowds will still be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Not that it makes a vast difference but the actually monies perceived by the club are ticket price-VAT. It renders the gap between £24 and £20 slightly smaller in the equation.If you read through the interview between Nick I and David Luker it's all set out for you. No mention of the bank of course. As you say, not a great deal of difference in terms of VAT: £24 tickets - non-VAT revenue of £20.43 £20 tickets - non-VAT revenue of £17.02 The bank may not have been mentioned in Nick's interview with David Luker, but I would have thought it's fairly obvious that the bank would look negatively on any move that would be perceived as gambling what is effectively their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 How do you know the numbers of people that are not attending because of Lowe and how many are not attending because of finance those are big assumptions to make. . Well given the number of ITK Investment Bankers that we've had on the various takeover threads" It's a wonder we even get 15K.:smt107:smt107:smt107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Why don't we go back to the gold, silver, bronze grading scheme but make the differences greater? i.e. make the less attractive games very cheap, but the more attractive games a little dearer....? For example.... Scenario 1 Saints Vs Doncaster on a cold Tuesday night: £24 Saints Vs Reading on a sunny Saturday 3pm kick off: £24 Trousers decides to give the Doncaster game a miss but goes to Reading. Money spent on matchday tickets = £24 Scenario 2 Saints Vs Doncaster on a cold Tuesday night: £10 Saints Vs Reading on a sunny Saturday 3pm kick off: £26 Trousers decides to go to both games. Money spent on matchday tickets = £36 So the club have got an extra £12 off me (+ any spend on merchandise & refreshments). If, say, an extra 5,000 decided to go to both games then that would bring in an extra £60,000 per game 'pair'. And if they did this for, say 10 games a season then they would rake in an extra £600,000. Clever or sheer unadulterated bunkum? You decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Well given the number of ITK Investment Bankers that we've had on the various takeover threads" It's a wonder we even get 15K.:smt107:smt107:smt107 Is that C_ockney rhyming??? I don't believe we do get that many going by the many empty seats around me at the Norwich game it looked more like 12k!!! Cripes I remember a Spurs reserve game at SMS where we had 11k when they had Rebrov playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Is that C_ockney rhyming??? I don't believe we do get that many going by the many empty seats around me at the Norwich game it looked more like 12k!!! Cripes I remember a Spurs reserve game at SMS where we had 11k when they had Rebrov playing. Close: 8658. 1-0 to us back in 2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Why don't we go back to the gold, silver, bronze grading scheme but make the differences greater? i.e. make the less attractive games very cheap, but the more attractive games a little dearer....? For example.... Scenario 1 Saints Vs Doncaster on a cold Tuesday night: £24 Saints Vs Reading on a sunny Saturday 3pm kick off: £24 Trousers decides to give the Doncaster game a miss but goes to Reading. Money spent on matchday tickets = £24 Scenario 2 Saints Vs Doncaster on a cold Tuesday night: £10 Saints Vs Reading on a sunny Saturday 3pm kick off: £26 Trousers decides to go to both games. Money spent on matchday tickets = £36 So the club have got an extra £12 off me (+ any spend on merchandise & refreshments). If, say, an extra 5,000 decided to go to both games then that would bring in an extra £60,000 per game 'pair'. And if they did this for, say 10 games a season then they would rake in an extra £600,000. Clever or sheer unadulterated bunkum? You decide. Don't worry - I've worked it out for myself. The Answer is (b) Bunkum.....because they would of course 'lose' a sizable sum of money from those who would go to both regardless. And from them they would lose £12 per person per game 'pair'. So, this hair brained idea would only work if it attracted more than 6,000 extra to the cr*p games.....which is a tad unlikely. Bottom line is that I'm talking tosh (albeit to myself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Close: 8658. 1-0 to us back in 2001 I think that was the official figure but due to crowds they just opened the Chapel end gates and filled the middle sections. Its like the Man Utd game way back when the official figure was nowhere near how many were in The Dell that night. I have no proof other than by eyesight but on both occasions the gates were opened and people let in without being counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Well given the number of ITK Investment Bankers that we've had on the various takeover threads" It's a wonder we even get 15K.:smt107:smt107:smt107 That's IT! We've been thinking this through all wrong, appealing to Saints fans... We should be running special offers for Investment Bankers - they get a 10 quid ticket, a nice tour of the stadium and the chance to "do the deal of the year" by selling the club for us. Let's face it there must be THOUSANDS of worried bankers out there right now who have no idea whether they'll have a job next week or where their next bonus is coming from. We could even make it 20 quid with a return coach from the City..... Oh and plan B - quick, where's Roman? We should do a Reality TV show for Investment Bankers - Imagine the millions watching Rupert to see him say - you're hired. Oh sod it off for a curry and a birthday beer But BOY I wanted to be at the game Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 (edited) That's IT! We've been thinking this through all wrong, appealing to Saints fans... We should be running special offers for Investment Bankers - they get a 10 quid ticket, a nice tour of the stadium and the chance to "do the deal of the year" by selling the club for us. Let's face it there must be THOUSANDS of worried bankers out there right now who have no idea whether they'll have a job next week or where their next bonus is coming from. We could even make it 20 quid with a return coach from the City..... Oh and plan B - quick, where's Roman? We should do a Reality TV show for Investment Bankers - Imagine the millions watching Rupert to see him say - you're hired. Oh sod it off for a curry and a birthday beer But BOY I wanted to be at the game Saturday Soon the concessions will read Seniors,Students and Unemployed Investment Bankers £18 Couldn't have happened to nicer bunch of blokes, they made my 5 years as a student a misery (well when there was no beer,sex or hallucinogens anyway). I remember hiking it from th Portobello Road to Romford in the snow to scrounge £2 off my aunt,jus cos the w*nker at the Midland wouldn't lend me a fiver to go home to get some cash off my folks. George W and Gordon Brown never bailed me out.. Edited 16 October, 2008 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 The only way crowds will go up is if we go up... the league table. Lowe being here or not being here is having zero effect on the size of crowds. This whole issue is absolute hogwash. People aren't going anymore, primarily because of the utterly drab football last season. I believe we are four to five thousand season tickets down on last season. Rupert Lowe has little significance. A small number of diehard anti Lowe agitators make a lot of noise, but it is the same few. Secondary effects are the economy, the tv results, results in general. If we continue in the same vein with respect to results, then the attendance won't improve. Unless we go on an unbeaten run, move right up the table, play attractive football and win convincingly on tv there will be no change. If Lowe and Wilde leave and nothing else changes crowds will still be the same. I've been saying this on other threads, a change of board without investment will not increase crowds only performance on the pitch. The anti Lowe brigade is only a small minority, the performances over the last year has affected attendances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I dont give a monkeys about who should be allowed to say what and on behalf of whom the fact remains that the club our club needs its supporters the Saints team needs its fans behind them so if you can afford to go and you love the Saints GO if you can't fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 There is no guarantee that lowering prices will automatically equal higher gates and more revenue for the club. For ease of demonstration, let's say the £24 adult ticket price applicable in most areas of the ground is the average ticket price throughout the whole stadium. At the moment, we're getting gates of around 15,000, which basically equates to about 6,000 matchday tickets sold. At the average price of £24, that means matchday ticket revenue of £144,000. If the ticket prices were reduced so the average price was then £20, great, particularly for those who would have gone to the game anyway. But it's not those the club are looking to appeal to, it's those that wouldn't have gone at £24. The club simply do not know how many of the stayaway fans are doing so purely because of the ticket price. There are so many different reasons why people might be staying away right now. It's entirely possible that they don't manage to entice any extra supporters back, and that then means that the club has lost £4 for every matchday sale, which would be £24k per match, nearly half a million quid over the course of the rest of the season. Even if they do entice more people in with the lower ticket price, they a) might not get enough to cover the shortfall created with the reduced price (they would need an extra 1200 fans per match to ensure they bring in the same revenue as with £24 tickets), and b) might **** off a number of existing season ticket holders as one of the main benefits of the season ticket is the financial saving you make over the course of the season, and reducing prices also reduces the saving STH's make. Without some sort of guarantee that reducing prices would bring in enough people to increase overall matchday revenue, there's not a cat in hell's chance the bank (who are basically running the club these days) would sanction any price reduction. What they could do is try it for two or three games to see if it does increase ticket sales and revenue, if it works extend it over a longer period but if not then revert back to the original plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 Sorry Ron but i don't buy it. I couldn't care less about this guy and his beliefs. The guy has done a lot of things for the club in terms of campaigning as you say but that does not give him the right to assume he can speak for us. I do a lot of charity work for Cancer does that mean i speak for those people? He should not be saying people should forget about Lowe and go to the games. He is implying the fans are bad. That is totaly wrong. He is implying that those people who are not going are not going because they dislike Lowe, he is implying that if they don't go it is they who are hurting the club. That is just pure ******** and i'm tired of it. The reason people are not going is because of money and the current climate in the financial world. If we had a team full of known names and were doing well the attendences would be a lot higher. If Saddam was in charge and we were 1st in the league the stadium would probably be near full. It is all about value for money and right now we are seeing just how much people are prepared to pay to watch our team. So people might disagree with me such as Carlos, fair enough that is your opinion. My opinion is a bit of campaigning to increase your ego does not make you a better fan then me. And does not give you the right to say those who are not going to games are hurting the club. The prices that the board set are hurting the club because they have priced out a lot of people. So Nick should not be slagging off people and telling them to go regardless of their views on Lowe as that is not the problem. How he gets to that is baffling. Now that is my view, most of you will disagree but that is how i see it. If i was in that position i would be using my resources and position to try and get the prices down. What is the point in having a near empty stadium? It makes more sense to lower the prices by like £5-£10 and have a bigger attendence which makes more money for the club. keeping it at the prices they are now means less gates and less money. That is what i would be doing. You wouldn't because with your big names and LOWER prices we would be out of business. I also dont think the gates would go up. If people aren't prepared to pay current unexceptional prices to see a committed team of talented, though certainly inexperienced, youngsters playing at times some of the best football at St Mary's for some time why would they turn up to watch the journeyman pros like Delap; Ewell that constitute 'names' in the Championship? But at least we would have put that Rupert Lowe in his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I really really hate this guy. I'm not the type who just hates people for nothing! The reason i hate this muppet is because he talks as if every "real" fan thinks the same as he does. Or if you don't share his view then why are you at the games? Like this article for example, he obviously has no clue about what is actually happening with the fans as he assumes the reason people are not attending is down to Lowe returning. Sure there will be a fair few who are not going because of him but it will be a tiny number in comparison to those who actually can't afford to go. So where is this Nick muppet Illingsworth**** article about reducing the price of tickets to allow people to actually afford to go? Where is the article aimed at asking the board why they feel the need to keep the prices very high to watch effectivley a reserve team play? And so on. But our supposed spokesman who i forgot to mention is a muppet blames it all on the people who dislike Lowe....So now those people are to blame for us having the 2nd biggest attendence drop in all off football? (2nd to Morecombe). Could the guy get any further up Lowes Arse? Please Nick do the fans who actually bother to pay these out of control ticket prices a favour and shut the **** up. You know nothing about the club. Your prophecy of us being taken over by arabs this week came and gone. You speak for yourself and nobody else and i doubt very few if any believe the real reason we have dropped from 32k to 14k is because of Lowe returning. You say you hate the guy but have you actually met him? I can understand it if you hate murderers, rapists etc without actually meeting them but to hate a fellow saints fan because he is holding a rallying call is a bit low. We need fans more than ever right now and I don't need to say why as we all know why. Yes some fans cannot afford it these days, have work committments, live too far away, the credit crunch and some won't return because of Lowe and co but there is a lot who won't attend because of where we are in the league, results over the last year and the opposition etc but if we draw the skates or Man Utd in the third round of the FA cup at home you can bet your bottom dollar it will be a selll out with some fans moaning if they don't get tickets. By the way the attendance has not dropped from 32k to 14k since Lowe returned, the actual figure has dropped from 21k to almost 16k since he returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 16 October, 2008 Author Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I think it's a very sad reflection on some of our fans when a fellow Saints supporter tries to actually do something other than moan on an internet message board and gets horrible personal abuse because of it. Some of our fans seem to want to get involved in petty personality based arguments more than they want to support the team. I'm glad that people like these are staying away, it makes for a much better atmosphere at the stadium. Maybe if you don't agree with Nick Illingsworth, and I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, why don't you do something more constructive about it than hiding behind your keyboard and shouting down people who are at least prepared to stand up and show their faces. It's easy to be brave when you are safe in the anonymity the web offers you isn't it! I can see what you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brmbrm Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I know how to get the crowds up: anyone thinking of making a takeover bid buys a ticket and goes. get the matchday experience, the taste of the club for little dosh. The stadium would be full. Allegedly. On the other hand, if RL said he would stay away, would that attract more punters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I know how to get the crowds up: anyone thinking of making a takeover bid buys a ticket and goes. get the matchday experience, the taste of the club for little dosh. The stadium would be full. Allegedly. On the other hand, if RL said he would stay away, would that attract more punters? Very few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 But the luvvies told us the boycott would have no impact. In fact, Scooby told us that "Lowe's body of men, 10,000 strong" would return! Simple fact is that many have decided to stay away because of him and that, added to the general "meh" about SFC and the cost have us over a barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Saint Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I dont give a monkeys about who should be allowed to say what and on behalf of whom the fact remains that the club our club needs its supporters the Saints team needs its fans behind them so if you can afford to go and you love the Saints GO if you can't fair enough That sums it up pretty well Good article by Nick, you can't knock the bloke for trying, fair play to him. Although I suspect unlikey, hopefully it hit a chord with a few of the stay-aways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 I've got nothing against Nick but one day he's telling us the takeover is tomoz, the next day he's assuming the role of a fans leader. Un-****ing-believeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 16 October, 2008 Share Posted 16 October, 2008 A lack of decent home fixtures, coupled with poor performances on Sky has been a big factor IMO. We've only had one Saturday fixture against decent opposition (B'ham). Our other two Saturday home matches were against Blackpool and Barnsley and one of those was a ghey kick-off time and on telly. A move up the table of 5 or 6 places and a few Sat 3pm kick-offs against "bigger" teams (without televised thrashings interspersed) and we'd get 18,000 or so which is a perfectly normal CCC attendance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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