Lowe running Saints like a business- a misconception

[cambsaint]

I have been reading some comments that Lowe is running Saints like a business in trouble.

 

This is completely innacurate: If you are running a customer focussed business in trouble then in addition to controlling expenses you have to keep the customers happy.

 

Lowe is so incompetent and arrogant that he doesn't even bother to give lip-service to the single most important tenet of any consumer dependent business ie retain customer satisfaction and loyalty. In fact because he holds the loyal fans in total disdain and comtempt, he humiliates tham and insults their intelligence at every possible opportunity.

 

It is an irrefutable fact that most of us knew that Saints were deep in financial trouble and sacrifices were necessary this season. However to dismiss a young, inexpensive, popular and competent manager with an understanding of the CCC; for a couple of unknown and untried Dutchmen was total stupidity and arrogance.

 

The correct strategy should have been to keep Pearson, give him a severely limited budget with the instructions to find inexpensive senior pros (preferably on loan), ship out overpaid dead-wood, and mix them with promising youngsters. Even if this strategy had failed then no logical fault could have been found with it.

 

To even begin to imagine that a team of very young reserves still wet behind the ears with only an experienced goalie to guide and mentor could survive this league almost defies description, the only word to describe this policy that I can think of is insanity. To charge £24 a week to watch it is treating your customers with contempt.

 

I will give you an analogy:

 

First: For the past many years you have shopped happily at the weekend at 'Asco' most weekend meals have been satisfactory, a few excellent and a few not so good. After a management change you find the entire store staffed with incompetent youngsters, led by a foreign manager who doesn't understand English suppliers and customers; accordingly the quality of product has declined massively and your preferred products are no longer on sale; having been replaced by second -rate cheap product, but the price is still the same as for decent quality goods:-do you continue to shop there out of a misguided sense of loyalty or do you go elsewhere?

 

So I regret to draw the conclusion is that the only to get rid of Lowe is not to go to SMS while he is in charge, but to return when he leaves.

He isn't managing on a limited budget; he is mismanaging on a limited budget and treating loyal fans with the utmost contempt!

 

Cambsaint

[um pahars]

He isn't managing on a limited budget; he is mismanaging on a limited budget and treating loyal fans with the utmost contempt!

 

Spot on.

 

We have had a myriad of opportunities and choices to make, we have just chosen the wrong ones.

 

Of course Lowe wants to succeed (both for £££'s and ego), but sadly his return has failed to live up to the pre season hype.

 

As you succinctly put it,

"He isn't managing on a limited budget; he is mismanaging on a limited budget"

[fanimal]

this contemptuous attitude is personified by the banal OS which peddles out Cork remains confident and win an xbox tripe as if nothing is wrong or going on FFS!!

 

Treats us paying customers loyal fans like a++ wipes and village idiots!

[Whitey Grandad]

Well done, Cambsaint, you have summed up my feelings and those of many others most succintly.

[VectisSaint]

Good post. Those who think Lowe is our only choice and that he is financially astute are so wrong. He brings nothing to this club, and in fact contributes to the financial problems by alienating his customers. How big the "boycott" is is of course questionable, but it exists and is now growing. There are much better ways to run a club in trouble than with experiments and third rate foreign coaches who know nothing about the game as played in England.

[alpine_saint]

I noticed nickh hasnt stopped by...

[gordonToo]

Well said.

 

The situation is not entirely beyond recall either if Lowe is prepared to accept full responsibility for the current predicament and stand down as chairman in favour of Cowan. We could then bring in an experienced manager, sort out the loanee situtation, get a few good results and bring attendances back to the 20K+ level. It's not rocket science.

[Snowballs2]

Heb is running a fiefdom not a business. A megolamaniac who thinks that only he is right, and only one way to go..his way

[Snowballs2]

I noticed nickh hasnt stopped by...

 

 

And your surprised ?

[Junior]

Spot on!

 

As a mate of mine pointed out on the way home from Swansea, 90% of the team that played on saturday, he was watching for free last year in the res! and now we have to pay £22+ for it!

[Cabrone]

You are exactly correct CambSaint.

 

The question is what are you all going to do about it?

 

Complaining on an internet forum will achieve nothing without a targeted response.

[OldNick]

I noticed nickh hasnt stopped by...

I didnt realise you needed my imput to get the debate moving.

[OldNick]

Well said.

 

The situation is not entirely beyond recall either if Lowe is prepared to accept full responsibility for the current predicament and stand down as chairman in favour of Cowan. We could then bring in an experienced manager, sort out the loanee situtation, get a few good results and bring attendances back to the 20K+ level. It's not rocket science.

That is true. AC seems as though he has the personality to be chairman.We need the others in the boardroom to have the balls to stand and be counted if they think there is a different person able to get the finances under control and keep the bank happy.

I think that they all know that whoever runs the business their hands are tied and happy to stand back in the shadows knowing RL will take the flak.

Being a S/t holder I would not worry if there were incentives offered to new purchasers and in general I believe the majority of others would accept that as well.

As for the comment about I watched all those kids for free last season, whilst I understand that did they not alos watch Theo and Bale for free before they were first teamers.The same for Wallace, Le Tiss Shearer?

The treatment as fans is an interesting dilemna, I have never felt in all the years of going that I was ever seen as anything other than a punter who paid to watch the team , and should be grateful for it. And that was under every chairman back to the great George Reader.

[OldNick]

And your surprised ?

and his what is surprised?

[Gordon Mockles]

Lowe is so incompetent and arrogant that he doesn't even bother to give lip-service to the single most important tenet of any consumer dependent business ie retain customer satisfaction and loyalty. In fact because he holds the loyal fans in total disdain and comtempt, he humiliates tham and insults their intelligence at every possible opportunity.

 

Indeed, they were saying on Radio Hants how the club almost have a closed shop mentality/media blockout, giving very little information out (and that we do hear is intelligence insulting, meaningless b*llocks - much like having Jan and Svensson in the studio last wk) to the fans. No wonder they're so p*ssed off. Pretty sure Lowe doesn't care one iota though, the w*nker!

 

It is an irrefutable fact that most of us knew that Saints were deep in financial trouble and sacrifices were necessary this season. However to dismiss a young, inexpensive, popular and competent manager with an understanding of the CCC; for a couple of unknown and untried Dutchmen was total stupidity and arrogance.

 

Yep, that's Lowe's forte!

 

The correct strategy should have been to keep Pearson, give him a severely limited budget with the instructions to find inexpensive senior pros (preferably on loan), ship out overpaid dead-wood, and mix them with promising youngsters. Even if this strategy had failed then no logical fault could have been found with it.

 

Yep. Most were happy with Pearson but such is the petty, personal power struggles by egotistical idiots like Lowe & Wilde, they could not possibly risk Crouch to have any credit if the appointment proved a success. So, the risky Dutch Duo was sprung upon us (yet another example of massive arrogance and a severe lack of football KNOWLEDGE). Proving a success eh? The likes of Somedunce and that other plant, Scooby, will maybe spout nasty, bigoted bile and rhetoric but any proper fan (not a non-football idiot with vested interests) realises Lowe made a mistake coming back (knowing the ill feeling held towards him by most Saints fans), then perpetuated his past incompetence by this, much chastised, appointment. 2 foreign “Yes men” of no experience in the CCC, totally out of the depth and working with whatever Rupert liases and negotiates for Jan to have (allegedly). The finances are probably worse due to Wilde AND Lowe being the men in charge, but they forced this hand and shattered any cohesion that Crouch had developed within the club at the end of last season (despite the smear campaign so juvenilely fabricated by the Lowe camp - even through the meaningless whimpers from Sundunce and co).

 

To even begin to imagine that a team of very young reserves still wet behind the ears with only an experienced goalie to guide and mentor could survive this league almost defies description, the only word to describe this policy that I can think of is insanity. To charge £24 a week to watch it is treating your customers with contempt...

 

So I regret to draw the conclusion is that the only to get rid of Lowe is not to go to SMS while he is in charge, but to return when he leaves.

He isn't managing on a limited budget; he is mismanaging on a limited budget and treating loyal fans with the utmost contempt!

 

I think many are finally seeing the light. Let's hope it's not too late as we're in freefall, having shipped out all the experienced/remaining talent (with Lallana and Surman on borrowed time if Rupert's history is anything to go by). I predicted most of this, but never realised the depths of stupidity held by Rupert and Michael. Obscure, strannge and largely deluded men of arrogance and incomptency of the lowest common denominator!

 

Well said Cambsaint!

Edited 27 October, 2008 by Gordon Mockles

[Gordon Mockles]

duplicate

Edited 27 October, 2008 by Gordon Mockles

[Gordon Mockles]

I noticed nickh hasnt stopped by...

 

Give it time! Rupert's just preparing a script (he was busy writing some out for Jan and preparing the lucky dip for the player burdoned with this weeks inane rallying call so was a bit delayed!) LOL

[Graffito]

I like the shop analogy, which is appropriate because RL views Southampton Football Club as a business. However, as fans of a football club we're not like consumers of other goods or services and tend not to shop elsewhere. Fan loyalty is like gold dust to any football club or business. Any football club should be moving hell and high water to protect it's loyal fanbase, especially with corporate income down and likley to fall further. Yet what the current regime has done is alienate the core fans who are voting with their feet. It beggars belief.

[Window Cleaner]

I like the shop analogy, which is appropriate because RL views Southampton Football Club as a business. However, as fans of a football club we're not like consumers of other goods or services and tend not to shop elsewhere. Fan loyalty is like gold dust to any football club or business. Any football club should be moving hell and high water to protect it's loyal fanbase, especially with corporate income down and likley to fall further. Yet what the current regime has done is alienate the core fans who are voting with their feet. It beggars belief.

 

Football (to some people) is like fags, you know you should give it up but you can't and the tobacconist doesn't run after you with special offers and

flash gifts in every packet. He knows you'll come in and buy the filthy stuff ,often against your better judgement. That's what it's like fior some football fans.Clubs like Newcaste and Boro thrive on it, no matter how bad the product is and how bad it is for you they'll buy it anyway.

[Topcat]

Good post cambsaint.

 

I note that no one has disagreed with you.

 

We knew we had financial problems, but to remove Nigel Pearson was just a plain stupid move by Lowe. It was another one of Lowe's "bright ideas". All those "bright ideas" have brought us down.

 

To get more supporters to attend matches would require a Chairman who treated them with respect (as Graffito writes). Removing Nigel Pearson looks like it will be a contributing factor to the demise of this Club. Just as removing Paul Sturrock on flimsy grounds partly contributed to our relegation.

[Topcat]

Football (to some people) is like fags, you know you should give it up but you can't and the tobacconist doesn't run after you with special offers and

flash gifts in every packet. He knows you'll come in and buy the filthy stuff ,often against your better judgement. That's what it's like fior some football fans.Clubs like Newcaste and Boro thrive on it, no matter how bad the product is and how bad it is for you they'll buy it anyway.

 

The difference is there may not a Club to support in a few years time.

[OldNick]

Give it time! Rupert's just preparing a script (he was busy writing some out for Jan and preparing the lucky dip for the player burdoned with this weeks inane rallying call so was a bit delayed!) LOL

I dont need scripts. Your rants remind me of the ones another Gordon used to spit out on Radio Hants.

LC is a fan who was part of the Wilde bunch who IMO did not watch the money rolling out of the door and did not put a stop to it.That is my gripe about his time at the club. he is not the worst culprit we have many more who have fed at the trough but they skulk around in the shadows lapping up the freebies and perks.

I dont know how many times I have to say it, but Id love RL to go. Iam a fan who goes to SMs and would love to see some success but I am also in business and understand if your costs outstrip your income there is only one way you are going.So you stem the costs first and then you turn your mind to getting the custom increased.

SFC and all the CCC clubs and lower are in a business that is under real pressure and unless you get a benefactor you are in trouble.

2000-fans extra will not get us far its sad to say we need 10k or more to really start to look up IMO and even then that wont be the cure.

[Scummer]

What bemuses me, is that as far as I can tell the club are making no attempt whatsoever to attract the missing fans back to the club. All the focus seems to be on cutting costs, and none on increasing revenue.

 

It's a very short-sighted way of running a business.

[OldNick]

Football (to some people) is like fags, you know you should give it up but you can't and the tobacconist doesn't run after you with special offers and

flash gifts in every packet. He knows you'll come in and buy the filthy stuff ,often against your better judgement. That's what it's like fior some football fans.Clubs like Newcaste and Boro thrive on it, no matter how bad the product is and how bad it is for you they'll buy it anyway.

How true that is. For the first time in my life on saturday I was not concerned about the result and had it txt to me when we came out of watching Spamalot, to go through the game and not knowing the result and not worrying is a big thing for me.I dont need Nicorettes to lose the urge, its all worn me down and Ive lost a lot of passion for the club

[saint1977]

What bemuses me, is that as far as I can tell the club are making no attempt whatsoever to attract the missing fans back to the club. All the focus seems to be on cutting costs, and none on increasing revenue.

 

It's a very short-sighted way of running a business.

 

Moreover, I don't think Barclays will support it much longer either. Why support debt if the people that have accrued it have no means of either repaying it or growing the organisation to be sustainable yet competitive in it's market? It's only the fact that football clubs have a community status and banks and the tax authorities don't want the bad PR that the plug hasn't been pulled already and with no sign of a viable business plan from Mike or Rupert, their chances of being there in January are looking slim.

[Window Cleaner]

The difference is there may not a Club to support in a few years time.

 

Oh there will be in some shape or form, whether it draws 30000 supporters per game or 5000 there will still be SFC.

No club has ever gone out of existence completely, dropped down divisions, changed location, franchised, but they're all there in some form or other.

we might eventually have to move to a smaller stadium,but what would happen to SMS I've no idea. The core support of the club can't support it and it's not worth the amount we paid for it in any other form.

In fact in a total meltdown Aviva(or Norwich Union) would be the biggest loser

unless they could sell it to Pompey but I think that's highly unlikely.

They really are out on a limb just now.

 

What there won't be,and this is what many seem to regret, is Premiership SFC,with stars and glitz and glamour.People who have no memory of the club before 1980 or so.

We were awful in Div 3 south but the Dell usually got pretty packed, it was a social thing, blokes worked hard all week, went to the pub on Friday and the

Dell on Saturday.Still suppose everybody plays golf now and goes to the casino.

[saint1977]

How true that is. For the first time in my life on saturday I was not concerned about the result and had it txt to me when we came out of watching Spamalot, to go through the game and not knowing the result and not worrying is a big thing for me.I dont need Nicorettes to lose the urge, its all worn me down and Ive lost a lot of passion for the club

 

That's the sad thing Nick, the club is just a local plaything to the various board members that have been through the revolving door in the last 20 years. Leon may not have done a great job - ie signing Safri and Euell on silly wages post-parachute but he's the only fan that's been involved at that level since Ted Bates. I rarely look at our results for away games these days and I've been an ST over the years and regularly gone to 8-10 away games a season as well so like you, I couldn't be labelled a casual.

[saint1977]

Oh there will be in some shape or form, whether it draws 30000 supporters per game or 5000 there will still be SFC.

No club has ever gone out of existence completely, dropped down divisions, changed location, franchised, but they're all there in some form or other.

we might eventually have to move to a smaller stadium,but what would happen to SMS I've no idea. The core support of the club can't support it and it's not worth the amount we paid for it in any other form.

In fact in a total meltdown Aviva(or Norwich Union) would be the biggest loser

unless they could sell it to Pompey but I think that's highly unlikely.

They really are out on a limb just now.

 

What there won't be,and this is what many seem to regret, is Premiership SFC,with stars and glitz and glamour.People who have no memory of the club before 1980 or so.

We were awful in Div 3 south but the Dell usually got pretty packed, it was a social thing, blokes worked hard all week, went to the pub on Friday and the

Dell on Saturday.Still suppose everybody plays golf now and goes to the casino.

 

That wouldn't happen but we'd have to rent SMS back at a significant cost. I think we'll come back but we need the share deadlock to break and Wilde and Lowe to lose enough of their value to find out what other options we have. There's no way PFC would be allowed to play games in the heart of Southampton City Centre! People are very anti-Rupert Lowe and the club doesn't even have a short-term future with him involved and Wilde needs to wrap his thick skull around this fact.

[solentstars]

Moreover, I don't think Barclays will support it much longer either. Why support debt if the people that have accrued it have no means of either repaying it or growing the organisation to be sustainable yet competitive in it's market? It's only the fact that football clubs have a community status and banks and the tax authorities don't want the bad PR that the plug hasn't been pulled already and with no sign of a viable business plan from Mike or Rupert, their chances of being there in January are looking slim.

it will make no difference ,barclays are calling the tune ,we are broke thats why the likes of stern and the high earners are being shipped out.

[saintstr1]

I have been reading some comments that Lowe is running Saints like a business in trouble.

 

This is completely innacurate: If you are running a customer focussed business in trouble then in addition to controlling expenses you have to keep the customers happy.

 

Lowe is so incompetent and arrogant that he doesn't even bother to give lip-service to the single most important tenet of any consumer dependent business ie retain customer satisfaction and loyalty. In fact because he holds the loyal fans in total disdain and comtempt, he humiliates tham and insults their intelligence at every possible opportunity.

 

It is an irrefutable fact that most of us knew that Saints were deep in financial trouble and sacrifices were necessary this season. However to dismiss a young, inexpensive, popular and competent manager with an understanding of the CCC; for a couple of unknown and untried Dutchmen was total stupidity and arrogance.

 

The correct strategy should have been to keep Pearson, give him a severely limited budget with the instructions to find inexpensive senior pros (preferably on loan), ship out overpaid dead-wood, and mix them with promising youngsters. Even if this strategy had failed then no logical fault could have been found with it.

 

To even begin to imagine that a team of very young reserves still wet behind the ears with only an experienced goalie to guide and mentor could survive this league almost defies description, the only word to describe this policy that I can think of is insanity. To charge £24 a week to watch it is treating your customers with contempt.

 

I will give you an analogy:

 

First: For the past many years you have shopped happily at the weekend at 'Asco' most weekend meals have been satisfactory, a few excellent and a few not so good. After a management change you find the entire store staffed with incompetent youngsters, led by a foreign manager who doesn't understand English suppliers and customers; accordingly the quality of product has declined massively and your preferred products are no longer on sale; having been replaced by second -rate cheap product, but the price is still the same as for decent quality goods:-do you continue to shop there out of a misguided sense of loyalty or do you go elsewhere?

 

So I regret to draw the conclusion is that the only to get rid of Lowe is not to go to SMS while he is in charge, but to return when he leaves.

He isn't managing on a limited budget; he is mismanaging on a limited budget and treating loyal fans with the utmost contempt!

 

Cambsaint

 

Sir , you are 110% correct with this posting and only a fool would disagree with any of it.

Post of the month for me.

[Junior Mullet]

Very well written post but I'm not sure it's that simple. We were in financial do do in the summer and the bank would have been looking at what our mid to long term prospects were as well as our immediate prospects.

 

IMO the bank were much more likely to support Lowe's concept of getting rid of the higher paid earners who frankly were bleeding the club dry without any effort on their behalf (save for the last game of the season) and playing hopeful youngsters on low wages. Most important, Lowe and the bank would have been looking at transfer fees that could be generated from the nippers.

 

The concept of employing Pearson to bring in and play senior pros would have been attractive to neither Lowe nor than bank. from this point of view Lowe is managing the COMPANY in what is IMHO the only way that can bring him any financial return. I agree, however that in doing so he has jeopordised the CLUB/TEAM/FANS. But then Low has always shown himself to be a selfish c*nt rather than someone who has the CLUB/TEAM/FANS' best interest at heart.

 

Therefore I would say he is not mismanaging the company but his actions have jepordised the club team and fans which could lead to the lot going down the pan.

[Window Cleaner]

That wouldn't happen but we'd have to rent SMS back at a significant cost. I think we'll come back but we need the share deadlock to break and Wilde and Lowe to lose enough of their value to find out what other options we have. There's no way PFC would be allowed to play games in the heart of Southampton City Centre! People are very anti-Rupert Lowe and the club doesn't even have a short-term future with him involved and Wilde needs to wrap his thick skull around this fact.

 

Rent it back from who??

I don't know where you all get this idea from that someone will buy SMS

as a going concern.It's worth neither it's construction value or it's ground value.

Aviva have a loan note of about 20 million outstanding on it. Nothing will change that, not administration, bankruptcy or whatever.The will seek other buyers but there is no certainty that they would let it out to us.

As I have told you all many times the repayments and interest on SMS are 2.2 million £ per year. That equates to 4681 full priced bums on seats at every home match.No kids,no pensioners,no ST holders,full priced £24 less VAT tickets. Staggering isn't it,and we've that for another 18 years or so.

They have guarantees and will keep on enforcing them until the debt falls below the value that they could get by calling in the loan and selling the stadium. They won't let go until someone pays them off.And seeing how the last lot turned out they'll be pretty damn choosy about who the let"take over" the club.

[Window Cleaner]

Anyone remember what the rates are on the stadium?

[slickmick]

I dont need scripts. Your rants remind me of the ones another Gordon used to spit out on Radio Hants.

LC is a fan who was part of the Wilde bunch who IMO did not watch the money rolling out of the door and did not put a stop to it.That is my gripe about his time at the club. he is not the worst culprit we have many more who have fed at the trough but they skulk around in the shadows lapping up the freebies and perks.

I dont know how many times I have to say it, but Id love RL to go. Iam a fan who goes to SMs and would love to see some success but I am also in business and understand if your costs outstrip your income there is only one way you are going.So you stem the costs first and then you turn your mind to getting the custom increased.

SFC and all the CCC clubs and lower are in a business that is under real pressure and unless you get a benefactor you are in trouble.

2000-fans extra will not get us far its sad to say we need 10k or more to really start to look up IMO and even then that wont be the cure.

 

 

Don't agree with much you say, but I agree with some of what your saying here. But like other posters have said, getting rid of Nigel Pearson was, in my opinion the biggest mistake, all because of the McMenemy link.

2 wins 2 draws and 1 defeat in 5 games and he's no longer required.

I'd sooner send back Pekhart, Roberson and Pulis and use that money towards keeping Pearson and his supposedly extravagant wages.

I like the way that Jan tries to get the team to play, but in this league we need a sgt major type who can install some fight to grind out results.

Pretty football with kids (small ones at that) aint goin to work.

The perfect kind of manager will have a mixture of both the above.

Now if only Glenn Hoddle would accept our wage offer !

[St Marco]

Spot on and agree. As i mentioned in another thread i expect the excuse people will use at every oportunity will be "we had no other choice, we have no money!" etc.. etc.. But that is ******** as our borrowing has gone up since Lowe returned so that money has gone somewhere.

[Window Cleaner]

Don't agree with much you say, but I agree with some of what your saying here. But like other posters have said, getting rid of Nigel Pearson was, in my opinion the biggest mistake, all because of the McMenemy link.

2 wins 2 draws and 1 defeat in 5 games and he's no longer required.

I'd sooner send back Pekhart, Roberson and Pulis and use that money towards keeping Pearson and his supposedly extravagant wages.

I like the way that Jan tries to get the team to play, but in this league we need a sgt major type who can install some fight to grind out results.

Pretty football with kids (small ones at that) aint goin to work.

The perfect kind of manager will have a mixture of both the above.

Now if only Glenn Hoddle would accept our wage offer !

 

he didn't want to know last year, he won't have changed his mind now.

Pearson, no comment to make other than it's probably not as simple as it all seems.

By the way, you probably couldn't afford Pearson moving expense with what we're paying Robertson,Pulis and Pekhart.

Just how much do you all think we're paying these kids??

Oh for the transparency of the NFL and it's salary caps and know contract deals;

It makes bullsh*t and urban myth impossible.

Edited 27 October, 2008 by Window Cleaner

[Window Cleaner]

Spot on and agree. As i mentioned in another thread i expect the excuse people will use at every oportunity will be "we had no other choice, we have no money!" etc.. etc.. But that is ******** as our borrowing has gone up since Lowe returned so that money has gone somewhere.

 

We paid the players with it Marco,and the office staff,and the stewards,and the people who work in the shops and the electricity bill and the rates,and the overdraft charges.

We don't make enough money to cover our costs, Lowe isn't magicking it into a top hat or a swiss bank account, we pay more than we earn, thus we lose money.Fortunately for us the bank let's us do that, when they stop we wont know what has hit us.All those people who are still getting paid even though we're spending more than we can afford just won't get paid any more. It's really that simple. Then when some little office girl has lost her job at

£7 an hour or whatever you'll understand just what the significance of paying players £10K,12K 15K to sit on their asses all last season is all about;

[Fan The Flames]

Rent it back from who??

I don't know where you all get this idea from that someone will buy SMS

as a going concern.It's worth neither it's construction value or it's ground value.

Aviva have a loan note of about 20 million outstanding on it. Nothing will change that, not administration, bankruptcy or whatever.The will seek other buyers but there is no certainty that they would let it out to us.

As I have told you all many times the repayments and interest on SMS are 2.2 million £ per year. That equates to 4681 full priced bums on seats at every home match.No kids,no pensioners,no ST holders,full priced £24 less VAT tickets. Staggering isn't it,and we've that for another 18 years or so.

They have guarantees and will keep on enforcing them until the debt falls below the value that they could get by calling in the loan and selling the stadium. They won't let go until someone pays them off.And seeing how the last lot turned out they'll be pretty damn choosy about who the let"take over" the club.

 

Because other grounds have been bought before and leased back.

 

Whats so staggering about a long term loan to build a ground, millions have twenty five year mortgages buying homes whats the difference. £2.2 million isn't much if we were getting better crowds, I wish my mortgage was only 25% on my income. But we are not getting better crowds because of the present mismanagement.

Edited 27 October, 2008 by Fan The Flames

[St Marco]

We paid the players with it Marco,and the office staff,and the stewards,and the people who work in the shops and the electricity bill and the rates,and the overdraft charges.

We don't make enough money to cover our costs, Lowe isn't magicking it into a top hat or a swiss bank account, we pay more than we earn, thus we lose money.Fortunately for us the bank let's us do that, when they stop we wont know what has hit us.All those people who are still getting paid even though we're spending more than we can afford just won't get paid any more. It's really that simple. Then when some little office girl has lost her job at

£7 an hour or whatever you'll understand just what the significance of paying players £10K,12K 15K to sit on their asses all last season is all about;

 

How can that be true if when Crouch was here we paid off £2m of our debt and still paid those players? Something does not add up.

[Window Cleaner]

Because other grounds have been bought before and leased back.

 

Whats so staggering about a long term loan to build a ground, millions have twenty five year mortgages buying homes whats the difference. £2.2 million isn't much if we were getting better crowds, I wish my mortgage was only 25% on my outgoings. But we are not getting better crowds because of the present mismanagement.

 

Which grounds and by whom?

We're we heading into financial helter skelter in that period?

I only know 1 Coventry and the council was involved in that..

[Scummer]

Because other grounds have been bought before and leased back.

 

Whats so staggering about a long term loan to build a ground, millions have twenty five year mortgages buying homes whats the difference. £2.2 million isn't much if we were getting better crowds, I wish my mortgage was only 25% on my outgoings. But we are not getting better crowds because of the present mismanagement.

 

The difference is that a house can always be sold to someone else who wants a house. There isn't much of a market for a second hand stadium.

[Scummer]

How can that be true if when Crouch was here we paid off £2m of our debt and still paid those players? Something does not add up.

 

Attendances are down I suppose.

[bridge too far]

Because other grounds have been bought before and leased back.

 

Whats so staggering about a long term loan to build a ground, millions have twenty five year mortgages buying homes whats the difference. £2.2 million isn't much if we were getting better crowds, I wish my mortgage was only 25% on my income. But we are not getting better crowds because of the present mismanagement.

 

The difference is though that if we default on our mortgages, the bank can repossess in the knowledge that they can sell the house on.

 

As has been said by many before, the market for football stadia is not as large as the market for houses.

[Fan The Flames]

Which grounds and by whom?

We're we heading into financial helter skelter in that period?

I only know 1 Coventry and the council was involved in that..

 

Palace, Brentford, Watford have bought theirs back twice off the top of me head. Leeds its belongs/belonged to the council. There are probably more.

[Window Cleaner]

How can that be true if when Crouch was here we paid off £2m of our debt and still paid those players? Something does not add up.

 

We paid off some debt in the 2006/7 season because we sold Bale and got to the play-offs,furthermore we still had the 6.7 million parachute payments.Crouch is for nothing in the deal, the club was run by Wilde and the execs in that period.Last season ie 2007/8 we sold players for a profit of 9.1 million in the summer and only bought Davies in january. In that financial period

despite making a profit of 8 million or so on players ,the gross loss will be about 5 or 6 million. So last year, because of reduced gates, no more parachute payments and overpaid players we lost a total of about 14 million pounds.More than our entire player and coaching salary mass.

We have no choice, unless we can boost gates to 30000 for every home game

at an average of £18 per ticket after VAT we have to cut costs,player costs.

[St Marco]

Attendances are down I suppose.

 

Could be. I remember last finances Crouch said he took our debt from £21.4m to £19.2m. That is what it was at. So Lowe has openly said there has been an increase in borrowing so what is our debt now? Attendences and season tickets will be well down but you would expect all the cost cutting Wilde and Lowe have done to have a drastic impact upon that number surely? If our debt is increasing then surely we have to go into admin as lets be honest we have no more silverwear to sell.

[Rogerfryisalegend]

Which grounds and by whom?

We're we heading into financial helter skelter in that period?

I only know 1 Coventry and the council was involved in that..

Elland Road, Im pretty sure Leeds rent it, used to be owned by Leeds council i think, but was sold to another company when leeds went into Admin.

[qwertySFC]

I have been reading some comments that Lowe is running Saints like a business in trouble.

 

This is completely innacurate: If you are running a customer focussed business in trouble then in addition to controlling expenses you have to keep the customers happy.

 

Lowe is so incompetent and arrogant that he doesn't even bother to give lip-service to the single most important tenet of any consumer dependent business ie retain customer satisfaction and loyalty. In fact because he holds the loyal fans in total disdain and comtempt, he humiliates tham and insults their intelligence at every possible opportunity.

 

It is an irrefutable fact that most of us knew that Saints were deep in financial trouble and sacrifices were necessary this season. However to dismiss a young, inexpensive, popular and competent manager with an understanding of the CCC; for a couple of unknown and untried Dutchmen was total stupidity and arrogance.

 

The correct strategy should have been to keep Pearson, give him a severely limited budget with the instructions to find inexpensive senior pros (preferably on loan), ship out overpaid dead-wood, and mix them with promising youngsters. Even if this strategy had failed then no logical fault could have been found with it.

 

To even begin to imagine that a team of very young reserves still wet behind the ears with only an experienced goalie to guide and mentor could survive this league almost defies description, the only word to describe this policy that I can think of is insanity. To charge £24 a week to watch it is treating your customers with contempt.

 

I will give you an analogy:

 

First: For the past many years you have shopped happily at the weekend at 'Asco' most weekend meals have been satisfactory, a few excellent and a few not so good. After a management change you find the entire store staffed with incompetent youngsters, led by a foreign manager who doesn't understand English suppliers and customers; accordingly the quality of product has declined massively and your preferred products are no longer on sale; having been replaced by second -rate cheap product, but the price is still the same as for decent quality goods:-do you continue to shop there out of a misguided sense of loyalty or do you go elsewhere?

 

So I regret to draw the conclusion is that the only to get rid of Lowe is not to go to SMS while he is in charge, but to return when he leaves.

He isn't managing on a limited budget; he is mismanaging on a limited budget and treating loyal fans with the utmost contempt!

Cambsaint

 

Good post , I firmly believe that the only way to gain RL attention is not to turn up at SMS. Protesting in the crowd , will automatically give Rupert ammunition to say " well the fans are getting to the players " hence why we lost , ect ect. Lambasting him from the terraces is a waste of time as he is not for turning .There is a dignity in a silent withdraw of support , 1 or two games with attendance down to a few thousand will be a more powerful message sent than any protest , lunatic fringe causing trouble. It will be painful , and there may be those who want to support these lads but there comes a time when the line has to be drawn ...for the sake of this once proud club...The most powerful message to the board is to stay away...

[Window Cleaner]

Palace, Brentford, Watford have bought theirs back twice off the top of me head. Leeds its belongs/belonged to the council. There are probably more.

 

Won't happen at SMS, believe me.

[St Marco]

We paid off some debt in the 2006/7 season because we sold Bale and got to the play-offs,furthermore we still had the 6.7 million parachute payments.Crouch is for nothing in the deal, the club was run by Wilde and the execs in that period.Last season ie 2007/8 we sold players for a profit of 9.1 million in the summer and only bought Davies in january. In that financial period

despite making a profit of 8 million or so on players ,the gross loss will be about 5 or 6 million. So last year, because of reduced gates, no more parachute payments and overpaid players we lost a total of about 14 million pounds.More than our entire player and coaching salary mass.

We have no choice, unless we can boost gates to 30000 for every home game

at an average of £18 per ticket after VAT we have to cut costs,player costs.

 

Not true. On Nov 07 Crouch said we had gone from £21.4m to £19.2m with our debt. Our turnover had gone from £25.7m to £23.2m. So we dropped £2.5m in turnover. Player trading had gone from £11.2m to £7.5m. Which proves we had lowered operating costs substantially and improved fiscal control. Also losses went from £3.3m to just £1m.

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/uploads/documents/nov_07/sfc_1196414690_annualreport07.pdf