To all those who were subjected to a 'Section 60' at Swansea

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Turns out they were illegal as the police failed to provide their names, numbers, stations they're based at and the reason for the search.

 

Who has an email address for the IPCC? Also inlight of this, I might just email the Chief constable of South Wales Police and ask to have my name removed from their files seeing as what they did was illegal!

Edited 6 November, 2008 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[Colinjb]

Please excuse my ignorance, but 'section 60'?

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Please excuse my ignorance, but 'section 60'?

 

Its like America's area 51

[Big Bad Bob]

Please excuse my ignorance, but 'section 60'?

 

Bottom of this page :-

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/ukpga_19940033_en_7

 

Basically gives the OB powers to stop and search anyone for offensive weapons if they think somethings going to go down!!

 

Don't see anywhere where it says the searching officer has to give Badge details only that the Order has to be in writing somewhere!!

[Makka Pakka]

An Officer does not need to give grounds for the reason for the search when a section 60 is in place.

 

Name, collar number is required, but is does not make the search 'illegal'

[JohnnyFartPants]

An Officer does not need to give grounds for the reason for the search when a section 60 is in place.

 

Name, collar number is required, but is does not make the search 'illegal'

 

What if a male police officer searches a females foo-foo, inside?

[Big Bad Bob]

What if a male police officer searches a females foo-foo, inside?

 

Depends on the female and the, ahem, timing of the search (apologies in advance if that offends!!)

[StuRomseySaint]

Turns out they were illegal as the police failed to provide their names, numbers, stations they're based at and the reason for the search.

 

Who has an email address for the IPCC? Also inlight of this, I might just email the Chief constable of South Wales Police and ask to have my name removed from their files seeing as what they did was illegal!

 

They have no legal power to get your name and details, in all honesty, if you are getting stopped on a section 60, then the likelyhood is they already have your details, although the SW Police did seem to be stopping 'scarfers' as well that game.

 

Like it or not, you have to put up with the police at football, it's one of them things. If you like a beer and dress casual, you are going to be followed around.

 

If you go to many away games then they will also have a 'file' on you. A lad I know got nicked at SMS a couple of weeks ago, in his interview they pulled out photo's and videos from a number of games and tried to use it in court, none of it was harsh stuff, just the norm w*nker signs and drunkeness. Luckily the judge told PC P to f*ck off and that evidence was not admissable in court so he got away with fine rather than a ban.

 

I have one mate banned for 3 years simply for being too drunk when walking up to the turnstile, and another for saying 'f*ck off' to OB who threw him to the floor aggresively after the goal at Derby this year.

 

It would not suprise me if SFC have one of the highest numbers of people banned at the moment, even taking into account that the Maze Hill lot are back.

 

Basically, contrary to what people would rather believe, Southampton now have a very large 'casual element' ( there is a difference between casuals and hooligans ) , as a result our away games are heavier policed, which means section 60's

[BridgnorthSaint]

Turns out they were illegal as the police failed to provide their names, numbers, stations they're based at and the reason for the search.

 

Who has an email address for the IPCC? Also inlight of this, I might just email the Chief constable of South Wales Police and ask to have my name removed from their files seeing as what they did was illegal!

 

Sounds like you have got an axe to grind ... Does it really matter unless you were one of those that set out to cause trouble

[Makka Pakka]

What if a male police officer searches a females foo-foo, inside?

 

I guess you mean that if a male officer searches a female. Then yes, thats unacceptable.

[LGTL]

Sounds like you have got an axe to grind ... Does it really matter unless you were one of those that set out to cause trouble

 

No, but it's about principles. Why should everyone who doesn't go on the coaches and wear a scarf be hounded and made to feel like they are a hooligan. It's comments like this one which make the police think it is OK to do.

[Big Bad Bob]

No, but it's about principles. Why should everyone who doesn't go on the coaches and wear a scarf be hounded and made to feel like they are a hooligan. It's comments like this one which make the police think it is OK to do.

 

Because, unfortuantely, a small minority who wear scarves and don't use the buses are. And the only way to nip it in the bud is to inconvenience everyone.

 

Hopefully these actions will make the small minority think in the future! Trouble is they'll just do it a different way!!

[Thedelldays]

if you have nothing to hide then who cares....

[Hatch]

 

It would not suprise me if SFC have one of the highest numbers of people banned at the moment, even taking into account that the Maze Hill lot are back.

 

page 4 if anyone cares..

 

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/football-arreststatistics-2007?view=Binary

[JRM]

it's all part of the the fun of the away days, I suggest whoever collects the most section 60s over the course of the season is presented with an award on the pitch at the last home game of the season, which could be a framed section 60 ?

 

to be fair swansea was the worst place for this I have ever seen.

[Barney Trubble]

Sounds like you have got an axe to grind ... Does it really matter unless you were one of those that set out to cause trouble

 

What a nonsense attitude.

 

I've never been stopped, searched etc at a football game[apart from the turnstile] since the late seventies, when I started going to football games. I don't cause any bother, like a drink and all that but I think it does matter, it's the principle of the thing.

 

I have nothing to hide but would have been annoyed if I had of been searched too for no reason. I think it's a disturbing trend that Police seem to think they can do what they want to football fans and hide behind contrived legislation to justify it. I don't like gobby drunken *****s either at football games but that doesn't give me the right to assume that they are intentionally looking for trouble.

 

It's situations like these when Police don't do themselves any favours, why have such a bad attitude?

 

I couldn't think of anything more likely to start trouble than some law enforcer on a mission to hide behind his uniform to try and justify treating people with such contempt.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just be friendly and agreeable to fans?

 

If they start trouble, then sure, I've got no issues with Old Bill giving them a few digs, if justified, but I just don't like all the needless posturing from the Police, it really doesnt help.

 

Also, why do people wrongly assume that because someone has an issue with something that there must be some reason for that or they something to hide? Can't people have an opinion these days based on their principles, morals and ethics in life without people assuming that they must have an hidden agenda?

 

:smt102

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

if you have nothing to hide then who cares....

 

I don't have anything to hide, I'm just ****ed off that I am stereotyped into being a football hooligan purely because I am White British, below the age of 25 and choose to travel by a train. Also being a teacher, I feel the fact that I was subjected to this has tarnished my reputation and I don't feel I should be made to explain to the senior leadership team if this pops up on my CRB checks.

[Mr saint]

if you have nothing to hide then who cares....

 

Couldn't agree more. The ones who make such a fuss about the police presence are the ones who know they are either doing something wrong/planning to cause trouble.

I very rarely get searched at football, although I did at Swansea, but it doesn't bother me.If you're polite to the police and just simply coorerate you'll have no trouble what so ever.

Unfortunately, there are people who seem to think all social norms should go out the window with regards to the police, especially at football.

 

Example like this:

If you go to many away games then they will also have a 'file' on you. A lad I know got nicked at SMS a couple of weeks ago, in his interview they pulled out photo's and videos from a number of games and tried to use it in court, none of it was harsh stuff, just the norm w*nker signs and drunkeness. Luckily the judge told PC P to f*ck off and that evidence was not admissable in court so he got away with fine rather than a ban.

 

I have one mate banned for 3 years simply for being too drunk when walking up to the turnstile, and another for saying 'f*ck off' to OB who threw him to the floor aggresively after the goal at Derby this year.

 

sum it up nicely for me. I take it as understood that if I tell a police man to **** off I will get punished. I know people will use the old it was alcohols fault etc. but I don't see that as an excuse. I love getting ****ed at football as much as the next guy, but why should that give you an excuse to start abusing the police and/or the opposition fans!

 

Then again, I'm probably just an old fart for giving respect to people in a role of authority, whether I actually agree with them or not...

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Mr. Saint, you obviously didn't read my post...

 

I have no problem with authority, but there should be an element of respect. If the police showed me some respect that day I wouldn't have had a problem with them. It's the same with my pupils: I show them respect and I expect respect from them.

Edited 6 November, 2008 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[lordswoodsaints]

section 60 gives the old bill the right to do anything they wish virtually without any comebacks.........believe me.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

section 60 gives the old bill the right to do anything they wish virtually without any comebacks.........believe me.

 

I'm going to have to take this section 60 issue up with the 'token copper' in the family next time I see him...

[lordswoodsaints]

I'm going to have to take this section 60 issue up with the 'token copper' in the family next time I see him...

 

ive got one of them as well,he finds it difficult to seperate his working life from his home life......basically he is a knob.

[Griffo]

You're obviously a hooligan Lordswood seen as your display picture is the logo of Fjall Raven

[lordswoodsaints]

You're obviously a hooligan Lordswood seen as your display picture is the logo of Fjall Raven

 

those days have long gone griffo.....im nearly 42,i cant run as fast as i used to ;-)

[brmbrm]

if you have nothing to hide then who cares....

 

******. If you have got nothing to hide then why should the police waste time searching whoever they want, despite the fact they have nothing to hide? Because they don't know what they are doing and don't give a sh!t

[Norm]

those days have long gone griffo.....im nearly 42,i cant run as fast as i used to ;-)

 

 

Wow! That is old:)

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Bottom of this page :-

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/ukpga_19940033_en_7

 

Basically gives the OB powers to stop and search anyone for offensive weapons if they think somethings going to go down!!

 

Don't see anywhere where it says the searching officer has to give Badge details only that the Order has to be in writing somewhere!!

 

So if no such 'Order in writing' has been received, does that 'void' (for want of a better word) the section 60?

[J Bizzle]

Not illegal, just means they can't charge you with anything as they have not gone through 'proper practise'.

[CabbageFace]

I'm glad about this I smashed in a welsh persons sheep, boyo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thedelldays]

******. If you have got nothing to hide then why should the police waste time searching whoever they want, despite the fact they have nothing to hide? Because they don't know what they are doing and don't give a sh!t

it is called a visual deterent

[Micky]

******. If you have got nothing to hide then why should the police waste time searching whoever they want, despite the fact they have nothing to hide? Because they don't know what they are doing and don't give a sh!t

 

Sorry, but does this statement make any sence whatsoever...?

 

The police are there to do a job - if you cooperate with them then it is likely that nobody gets to aggravated. As for wasting time searching people, lets just see how we like it when hardcore weapons (knives etc) start to appear at grounds again.

 

Nobody makes a fuss getting searched in airports and the like - therefore there should be little complaint when the police are ultimatley trying to make football a safer place for all.

[Mole]

Sorry, but does this statement make any sence whatsoever...?

 

The police are there to do a job - if you cooperate with them then it is likely that nobody gets to aggravated. As for wasting time searching people, lets just see how we like it when hardcore weapons (knives etc) start to appear at grounds again.

 

Nobody makes a fuss getting searched in airports and the like - therefore there should be little complaint when the police are ultimatley trying to make football a safer place for all.

 

Notts Forest used to be ****ers for throwing darts at away fans. If the police feel they need to search to prevent stuff like this happening then so be it.

[This Charming Man]

page 4 if anyone cares..

 

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/football-arreststatistics-2007?view=Binary

 

We're beating the Skates in the arrest table.

 

Take that you fish f*ckers!

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I am White British, below the age of 25 and choose to travel by a train. Also being a teacher, I feel the fact that I was subjected to this has tarnished my reputation and I don't feel I should be made to explain to the senior leadership team if this pops up on my CRB checks.

 

Under 25 and a teacher !! I'm getting old

[labibs]

The Police presence at Swansea was excessive though. I live in Cardiff so travelled to the game by train. As soon as we left the station the Police presence was very heavy and every single one of them was very, very aggressive towards me and the guys with me. I wasn't even wearing colours.

 

I'm all for Police controlling a crowd, but I was made to feel like a hooligan for no reason at all. This level of oppressive policing only serves to wind people up and antagonise them and in my mind this is not the correct way to police a game.

[labibs]

Just want to add, I have no problem with being searched when entering the ground. If it stops even one idiot from doing something stupid or hurting someone, I'm all for it. I would just prefer it was done with some courtesy and professionalism

[Fan The Flames]

Sorry, but does this statement make any sence whatsoever...?

 

The police are there to do a job - if you cooperate with them then it is likely that nobody gets to aggravated. As for wasting time searching people, lets just see how we like it when hardcore weapons (knives etc) start to appear at grounds again.

 

Nobody makes a fuss getting searched in airports and the like - therefore there should be little complaint when the police are ultimatley trying to make football a safer place for all.

 

 

People don't mind being searched going in to a ground it’s been part of football for years, its the random stopping in the street for no apparent reason that is not liked, and quite rightly too.

 

No body on here would like it if they were out shopping with their wives or friends and were pulled to one side and searched. So why is it ok to do this to football fans?

 

Football policing should be visible and reactive, only proactive when the intelligence is sound. Often the police do this kind of search pattern with very little intelligence and given the go ahead to act in this way the police on the street will be doing it for fun and getting great pleasure out of the power they have.

 

I bet you will find the officer in charge at Swansea was inexperienced and erred on the side of caution on the basis of a bit of very weak information.

 

What was the arrest rate from the stop and searches, probably very low if indeed they arrested anyone (other than those getting stroppy for being searched). It’s a waste of time.

 

It might make the odd person feel safer seeing lads being stopped but people shouldn't be used it that way.

 

How many of the 'well if you've got nothing to hide brigade' hate speed cameras, because only in England would we condemn speed cameras and condone stop and searching.

[Scudamore]

Did anyone's tw::t get mugged off?

[saint1977]

Notts Forest used to be ****ers for throwing darts at away fans. If the police feel they need to search to prevent stuff like this happening then so be it.

 

Yes, I remember that and it's mentioned in a number of books. Does anyone remember Filbert St in 1994/5 when Leicester fans were pelting us with coins and then after the FA Cup game a couple of years ago they also had a significant pop at our coaches?

 

Well done Hatch on the Home Office tables, it has to be said that as one of the biggest clubs outside the PL, our arrest rates are still comparatively low although the Cup arrest figure was high for 06/07 - wonder why? All the usual suspects in the PL had high figures - Skates, Man U etc and in League 1 Millwall, Leeds and Forest had very high banning order and arrest figures. Surprised at Grimsby and Lincoln though, guess they must have had a couple of derby games with lots of trouble.

 

I'm not excusing SW Police in any way because it sounds like they were OTT but Police forces do tend to be so after dealing with a lot of violence in a high profile game - Swansea V Cardiff in the Carling Cup had occured 2 weeks before with a lot of quite serious violence to deal with.

[Denzil]

So if no such 'Order in writing' has been received, does that 'void' (for want of a better word) the section 60?

 

Mate I really would just forget about it, sometimes at away games you will get treated like a kunt. This is a fact of life.

[RedWillie]

some confusion here....getting searched going in to the ground is the clubs policy and the stewards enforce it - not the Police, just like being searched going into a club/music concert etc..

Section 60 occurs away from the ground (although it can include the ground) and is only in place whereby the senior Police officer in charge fears trouble/violence will occur - normally associated with info received beforehand. It is in place normally for 24hrs.

[StuRomseySaint]

page 4 if anyone cares..

 

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/football-arreststatistics-2007?view=Binary

 

They are figures from a few seasons ago, I would say the figures so far this season match that, and I know alot more are banned.

 

As for DellDays saying 'whats the problem if you have nothing to hide'

 

Here is the problem DD, our minibus being section 60'd, being stopped on the M4 and told we HAD to go to the stadium, and escorted there, to be locked in a compound outside the turnstiles 1 hour before kick-off with no facilities, have our minibus searched, our names taken and our beers taken. Not being allowed out after the game and being escorted back on to the motorway.

 

Now that is a problem, would you not agree?

[stevegrant]

They are figures from a few seasons ago, I would say the figures so far this season match that, and I know alot more are banned.

 

As for DellDays saying 'whats the problem if you have nothing to hide'

 

Here is the problem DD, our minibus being section 60'd, being stopped on the M4 and told we HAD to go to the stadium, and escorted there, to be locked in a compound outside the turnstiles 1 hour before kick-off with no facilities, have our minibus searched, our names taken and our beers taken. Not being allowed out after the game and being escorted back on to the motorway.

 

Now that is a problem, would you not agree?

If they treat all coaches/minibuses the same then I don't have a particular problem with it (the coach I was on was also subjected to it). The police in Swansea have come up with this fairly draconian method of dealing with away coaches/minibuses presumably with the intention of reducing the number of public order problems. While, as I say, it seems fairly draconian, if it achieves their aim(s) then they'll see it as a good job well done.

[Hatch]

If they treat all coaches/minibuses the same then I don't have a particular problem with it (the coach I was on was also subjected to it). The police in Swansea have come up with this fairly draconian method of dealing with away coaches/minibuses presumably with the intention of reducing the number of public order problems. While, as I say, it seems fairly draconian, if it achieves their aim(s) then they'll see it as a good job well done.

 

Does this not fall foul of the Human Rights Act.

Why is it only football supporters that are treated this way.

[StuRomseySaint]

If they treat all coaches/minibuses the same then I don't have a particular problem with it (the coach I was on was also subjected to it). The police in Swansea have come up with this fairly draconian method of dealing with away coaches/minibuses presumably with the intention of reducing the number of public order problems. While, as I say, it seems fairly draconian, if it achieves their aim(s) then they'll see it as a good job well done.

 

The policing in Swansea is never that heavy-handed apparantly, they normally welcome away fans drinking on Wind Street etc. Yes the your bus was stopped, as it was independently hired, however other minibuses with face-painted people and kids were escorted to a nice village pub to have a drink, so it was not 'blanket punishment' .

[stevegrant]

The policing in Swansea is never that heavy-handed apparantly, they normally welcome away fans drinking on Wind Street etc.

I read on Football Ground Guide that the police had instructed pubs not to allow away fans into any pub anywhere near the ground. Whether they've extended that to the city centre as well, I don't know.

 

Certainly, by the look of the layout of the away section outside the ground (with fences segregating it from the home sections either side), it seemed to me to be the "normal" thing for away fans to be penned in there.

 

Yes the your bus was stopped, as it was independently hired, however other minibuses with face-painted people and kids were escorted to a nice village pub to have a drink, so it was not 'blanket punishment' .

Surely those minibuses would have been independently hired as well? (the travel club would have gone direct to the ground anyway as usual) We stopped off at a pub just outside Bridgend as one of the lads organising the coach had been told about the "procedure" the police were likely to employ.

[Hunty]

Notts Forest used to be ****ers for throwing darts at away fans. If the police feel they need to search to prevent stuff like this happening then so be it.

 

Strangely at Palace last season was searched at the gate, had a 1 inch fake sword taken from my keys, but when my darts were found (played the Friday night and forgot they were in my inside pocket) they were handed back and I was waved into the stadium!

[Evil Monkey]

Does this not fall foul of the Human Rights Act.

Why is it only football supporters that are treated this way.

 

Just what I was thinking. Surely you can only be detained if you've been arrested?

[Mole]

Does this not fall foul of the Human Rights Act.

Why is it only football supporters that are treated this way.

 

Because a small minority of feral louts like to spoil things for the law abiding majority. As far am i'm concerned the human rights act needs scrapping and the police given more powers to use their initiative. The Human rights Act was also used to comlain against Asian looking people being singled out at airport security checks when it's bloody obvious Asian looking people are the ones who should be watched more closely in these times. Likewise those dressed in Stone Island etc should be subjected to more stop and searches - it's common sense.

[Evil Monkey]

Because a small minority of feral louts like to spoil things for the law abiding majority. As far am i'm concerned the human rights act needs scrapping and the police given more powers to use their initiative. The Human rights Act was also used to comlain against Asian looking people being singled out at airport security checks when it's bloody obvious Asian looking people are the ones who should be watched more closely in these times. Likewise those dressed in Stone Island etc should be subjected to more stop and searches - it's common sense.

 

Searching people that look a bit like a hooligan is one thing, but locking them up before and after the game without being formally charged, and stealing their beer seems to me to cross a line.