How long before the Bank tells Lowe to go?

[Topcat]

The Club can only continue to trade with the support of the Bank. With the return of Lowe, the attendances have fallen below the break even point. At what point is the Bank going to say enough is enough and that Lowe must step down and that someone else take over as Chairman/CEO of the main company?

 

It is impossible to have a "spirit of Southampton" when the Club is headed up by someone who is so despised by some that they will not attend home games.

 

The Club needs the cash and the players need the support from the missing thousands of supporters.

 

In my view the Bank has to act right now and the best way to pressure them maybe through the Echo.

[Pancake]

I think you might find that from the Banks POV, Lowe is running the finances to their liking on the players wages side of things and keeping the ship a float. Im not sure you can attribute all the missing fans at SMS to Lowe either.

[Long Shot]

I think you might find that from the Banks POV, Lowe is running the finances to their liking on the players wages side of things and keeping the ship a float. Im not sure you can attribute all the missing fans at SMS to Lowe either.

 

You could not be more wrong I am afraid, and you will have to take my word that that is a FACT

[Pancake]

You could not be more wrong I am afraid, and you will have to take my word that that is a FACT

 

OK, cool. I dont have any knowledge of it at all, was just my view and Im happy for it to be corrected. I understand you have your reasons for not revealing your info or sources, so Im happy to believe you.

[stevegrant]

As far as I'm aware, the bank were happy with the way things were being operated in terms of the cost-cutting, etc. However, the attendances are below what is required for those reduced costs to actually make a difference, so I suspect they'll be getting a bit twitchy again. I'd expect them to wait until after the end of January before deciding whether to actually do anything or not though.

[Topcat]

I think you might find that from the Banks POV, Lowe is running the finances to their liking on the players wages side of things and keeping the ship a float. Im not sure you can attribute all the missing fans at SMS to Lowe either.

 

How much have attendances dropped compared to last season when we were also in a relegation fight?

Last season average = 21,253

This season average = 15,625

 

Drop on last season = 5,628

 

Therefore the new regime has lost us 5,000 attendees.

 

PS we have suffered the biggest loss in attendances of any CCC Club which was there in the previous season. Must be a reason? Cannot be the threat of relegation as we are getting used to that!

[NickG]

The Club can only continue to trade with the support of the Bank. With the return of Lowe, the attendances have fallen below the break even point. At what point is the Bank going to say enough is enough and that Lowe must step down and that someone else take over as Chairman/CEO of the main company?

 

It is impossible to have a "spirit of Southampton" when the Club is headed up by someone who is so despised by some that they will not attend home games.

 

The Club needs the cash and the players need the support from the missing thousands of supporters.

 

In my view the Bank has to act right now and the best way to pressure them maybe through the Echo.

 

 

bank will only intervene if they will there is serious mismanagement of the finances, they won't particularly care if people think he gives team talks or used to like hockey etc. If they feel there is a better way forward financially they may well let their feelings be known, if not they will accept he is their contact and deal with him

[Topcat]

bank will only intervene if they will there is serious mismanagement of the finances, they won't particularly care if people think he gives team talks or used to like hockey etc. If they feel there is a better way forward financially they may well let their feelings be known, if not they will accept he is their contact and deal with him

 

But Lowe is linked to the catastrophic decline in attendances. That is something that has a major impact on finances. In the above I have made no mention of his meddling in team matters as a reason for Bank intervention so why raise it?

[NickG]

How much have attendances dropped compared to last season when we were also in a relegation fight?

Last season average = 21,253

This season average = 15,625

 

Drop on last season = 5,628

 

Therefore the new regime has lost us 5,000 attendees.

 

PS we have suffered the biggest loss in attendances of any CCC Club which was there in the previous season. Must be a reason? Cannot be the threat of relegation as we are getting used to that!

 

tbf a lot of that drop is due to last season -the old regime, and how long its been since we won lots of home games or were in premiership

[pingpong]

How much have attendances dropped compared to last season when we were also in a relegation fight?

Last season average = 21,253

This season average = 15,625

 

Drop on last season = 5,628

 

Therefore the new regime has lost us 5,000 attendees.

 

PS we have suffered the biggest loss in attendances of any CCC Club which was there in the previous season. Must be a reason? Cannot be the threat of relegation as we are getting used to that!

 

as a missing attendee I can assure people on here that lowe has nothing to do with falling attendances. it's purely because Saints are rubbish.

 

you can try and pin that on lowe, but the fact is we are rubbish because we can't afford anything better. regardless of whether that was lowe's fault in the first place, it remains fact, and there is no-one lining up who can do any better without major cash injections, and who is going to want to do that when they can find clubs with much better support than saints have? I think people should be resigned to the fact that we are not going to be a play-off challenging side in the championship for the foreseeable. probably not in our lifetimes.

 

so given that, either enjoy the relegation battle in an half-empty stadium, or, be sensible, and change teams. Maybe not pompey because they are on the slide, but someone like Arsenal - fantastic football, heroic performances etc. etc. saints are a waste of everyones time.

[saintjay77]

How much have attendances dropped compared to last season when we were also in a relegation fight?

Last season average = 21,253

This season average = 15,625

 

Drop on last season = 5,628

 

Therefore the new regime has lost us 5,000 attendees.

 

PS we have suffered the biggest loss in attendances of any CCC Club which was there in the previous season. Must be a reason? Cannot be the threat of relegation as we are getting used to that!

 

im sure the figuers can be interperated in many ways but maybe the fact that we did so poor last season and we dont have the funds to improve the team with stars also has an impact on how many turn up? This doesnt matter who is in charge, If crouch had gone down this route because the bank said so then we would have the same team and same attendances.

 

Only thing that will improve the gates will be the results or a proper takeover with money being splashed on the team.

[NickG]

But Lowe is linked to the catastrophic decline in attendances. That is something that has a major impact on finances. In the above I have made no mention of his meddling in team matters as a reason for Bank intervention so why raise it?

 

probably cos posting on two threads at once!

 

They would have to show how he is at fault for the delcine in attendances i.e. what has he done wrong when he could have done differently.

 

I know this is a cue for all the old arguements but the bank would have to be satisfied that he made wrong choices and when there were other options -and to a higher degree of proof than used on here! They will also know the truth about accounts, wages etc

[EastleighSoulBoy]

tbf a lot of that drop is due to last season -the old regime, and how long its been since we won lots of home games or were in premiership

 

The drop is this season Nick, you cannot make the link to the regime which was there last season!

 

You can make the figures tell you anything, it's called spin. Remember that hoary old chestnut?

 

There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

So attendances have fallen and we ask why? Lowe, no it's not Lowe it's the previous administrative board,etc. etc.

 

What is the root cause? Where did it all start to go wrong? How far back to we have to look to deem that we were, reasonably, successful? I think it all started to go t!ts up after the Cup Final and a good placing in the Prem that year. All down hill after that. Why? Lack of investment?

 

Most of us are aware of the answer. The root cause, no matter how many managers, directors, 'boot boys' or tea ladies we've had in between, is firmly and squarely at Lowe's door.

 

Rant over!

Edited 11 November, 2008 by EastleighSoulBoy

[NickG]

of course you can.

people bought season tickets -after last season

people bought season tickets for last season -after a good season

its obviously going to have major influence

[saintjay77]

The drop is this season Nick, you cannot make the link to the regime which was there last season!

 

How many people last season that went week in week out thought that it was a load of sh1te and wont bother coming this season?

 

I think you will find that some of the decline is certainly down to last season and some of it is down to what has followed.

 

Had we given a few teams a few spankings then the gates would be much higher but at the moment we only look stronger when we play away from home.

[Topcat]

NickG, you are really doing a sterling job in backing Rupert Lowe but at some point you will recognise reality, maybe down in L1? The facts are that the Club he is leading is doing a far worse job in attracting punters than any other one that was in the CCC last season. FACT. A fish rots from the head down and Lowe is the head of this fish.

 

You make the point that low attendances are solely down to the team? A team full of home grown players? A team not built (until recently) of loanees and other outsiders.

[NickG]

I just am more resonable and look at all the facts. Lowe is at fault, of course he is.

 

but the longer it is since premiership football or even the play off season attendances will drop, not hard to see.

 

If we win they will start to come back.

 

Of course the buck stops with the chair.

 

But the bottom line is the main decline is that

[Channon's Sideburns]

tbf a lot of that drop is due to last season -the old regime, and how long its been since we won lots of home games or were in premiership

 

Jeez, where do you buy your blinkers Nick??

 

If you SERIOUSLY think what you have posted is correct, I feel genuinely sorry for you.

[Topcat]

I just am more resonable and look at all the facts. Lowe is at fault, of course he is.

but the longer it is since premiership football or even the play off season attendances will drop, not hard to see.

 

Drop on last year 5,628. Drop on that year and the prior one when we chased promotion was less than 1,000!

 

Difference = Lowe.

[Saint Billy]

as a missing attendee I can assure people on here that lowe has nothing to do with falling attendances. it's purely because Saints are rubbish.

 

you can try and pin that on lowe, but the fact is we are rubbish because we can't afford anything better. regardless of whether that was lowe's fault in the first place, it remains fact, and there is no-one lining up who can do any better without major cash injections, and who is going to want to do that when they can find clubs with much better support than saints have? I think people should be resigned to the fact that we are not going to be a play-off challenging side in the championship for the foreseeable. probably not in our lifetimes.

 

so given that, either enjoy the relegation battle in an half-empty stadium, or, be sensible, and change teams. Maybe not pompey because they are on the slide, but someone like Arsenal - fantastic football, heroic performances etc. etc. saints are a waste of everyones time.

 

I agree with what you are saying but I still think that Lowes removal would have some sort of positive impact.

 

It is not just because he is disliked by so many, it is also because of his cranky decisions, his gambles on untried and untested coaching staff, his input on team affairs, his reliance on playing a team of kids, his belief that anything of any quality must be sold or loaned out at all cost's irrespective of how it effects the team and results.

 

He might be balancing the books but the club is still dying. I would be more than happy if Lowe and Wilde stepped down, paid a little more and got a manager in with some experience. Even if it mean't keeping the current squad

I am sure there would be some positive impact.

 

God knows we need it.

[NickG]

exactly -were positive after promotion season.

[Scummer]

How many did our season ticket numbers fall by this season compared to last?

[saintjay77]

Drop on last year 5,628. Drop on that year and the prior one when we chased promotion was less than 1,000!

 

Difference = Lowe.

 

1st season out fo the prem and people think we will bounce straight back up so attendances will stay high.

 

change in the board gets fans thinking there is some kind of revival going on so attendances stay up

 

play offs give us hope that the following season will be our time so attendances stay up

 

completly arse season ending in a relegation fight followed by really bad finances which leads to losing our best players/highest earners and guess what? our attendances go down and they keep going down while the results continue to get worse.

 

Some of that is down to the return of lowe cause TBH I dont want to go there and support him but I know many people that just cant be bothered to waste there money when they know we are half the team we once were. Its peoples choice to be like that and maybe if Lowe wasnt around people would have a bit more loyalty with the club while it goes through its bad times. But the only replacements dont seem much better TBH so do we support the club and hope it drags its self out of this mess or do we stand back and continue to watch it rot?

[stevegrant]

How many did our season ticket numbers fall by this season compared to last?

About 3000, I think.

 

Most season ticket holders renew under the March Madness/Early Bird/whatever you want to call it scheme as it's the cheapest way of doing it. Therefore, I am in slight agreement with NickG that last season's "performances" (and I use that word lightly) have had a pretty significant impact on this season's attendances.

 

In March, we were probably at our lowest ebb, having been dumped out of the cup by Bristol Rovers and then that bloody awful Plymouth home game a few days later, which could easily have persuaded many that they might as well save themselves the best part of £400 and not bother renewing their season ticket.

 

It would, of course, be wrong to use that as the sole reason though - there are simply so many possible reasons that, added together, have contributed to the decline.

[Junior Mullet]

IMO the drop is due to several things -

 

1. Very poor last season

2. Bad atmosphere at games last season - fans getting on the backs of players

3. Playing the youngsters this year - no 'stars' to attract the more fickle fans

4. Lowe

5. Fewer pounds, shillings and pence in peoples pockets

6. Fewer fans at games this year = worse atmosphere = fewer fans (I call this the spiral effect)

7. Genuine disatisfaction or disinterest with football generally/CCC football/poor standard of refereeing etc

 

For me, I havent bought a ticket this year because of reason 2, 5 and partly 7 (I sometimes fish on a Saturday now instead - something I hadnt always had the option to do when I had a season ticket).

 

I can categorically state that Lowe's return has not accounted for the club losing my season ticket subscription this year. I am not that shallow.

 

I still go and see most games one way or another, just for the record.

[trousers]

You could not be more wrong I am afraid, and you will have to take my word that that is a FACT

 

Is that from the same 'fact factory' that had us believe Salz and Crouch would be at the game on Saturday, or is this a different type of "fact" ?

 

The usual apologies ion advance for my cynicism.....

[Wes Tender]

as a missing attendee I can assure people on here that lowe has nothing to do with falling attendances. it's purely because Saints are rubbish....................

 

so given that, either enjoy the relegation battle in an half-empty stadium, or, be sensible, and change teams. Maybe not pompey because they are on the slide, but someone like Arsenal - fantastic football, heroic performances etc. etc. saints are a waste of everyones time.

 

You can assure us all you like that Lowe has nothing to do with falling attendances, but unless you are able to back up your assertion with concrete facts, you are p*ssing in the wind. The truth is that nobody realistically has any evidence of how many of those staying away are doing so because of Lowe or because the football is crap.

 

As for suggesting that the stayaways go and support some other team, then you obviously don't know the mentality of why people follow a particular club. Any who would have supported on of the glory teams would have done so long ago. As for even mentioning our local rivals as a possibility, well, my mind boggles.

[NickG]

Jeez, where do you buy your blinkers Nick??

 

If you SERIOUSLY think what you have posted is correct, I feel genuinely sorry for you.

 

as a missing attendee I can assure people on here that lowe has nothing to do with falling attendances. it's purely because Saints are rubbish.

 

you can try and pin that on lowe, but the fact is we are rubbish because we can't afford anything better. regardless of whether that was lowe's fault in the first place, it remains fact, and there is no-one lining up who can do any better without major cash injections, and who is going to want to do that when they can find clubs with much better support than saints have? I think people should be resigned to the fact that we are not going to be a play-off challenging side in the championship for the foreseeable. probably not in our lifetimes.

 

so given that, either enjoy the relegation battle in an half-empty stadium, or, be sensible, and change teams. Maybe not pompey because they are on the slide, but someone like Arsenal - fantastic football, heroic performances etc. etc. saints are a waste of everyones time.

 

im sure the figuers can be interperated in many ways but maybe the fact that we did so poor last season and we dont have the funds to improve the team with stars also has an impact on how many turn up? This doesnt matter who is in charge, If crouch had gone down this route because the bank said so then we would have the same team and same attendances.

 

Only thing that will improve the gates will be the results or a proper takeover with money being splashed on the team.

 

How many people last season that went week in week out thought that it was a load of sh1te and wont bother coming this season?

 

I think you will find that some of the decline is certainly down to last season and some of it is down to what has followed.

 

Had we given a few teams a few spankings then the gates would be much higher but at the moment we only look stronger when we play away from home.

 

I agree with what you are saying but I still think that Lowes removal would have some sort of positive impact.

 

It is not just because he is disliked by so many, it is also because of his cranky decisions, his gambles on untried and untested coaching staff, his input on team affairs, his reliance on playing a team of kids, his belief that anything of any quality must be sold or loaned out at all cost's irrespective of how it effects the team and results.

 

He might be balancing the books but the club is still dying. I would be more than happy if Lowe and Wilde stepped down, paid a little more and got a manager in with some experience. Even if it mean't keeping the current squad

I am sure there would be some positive impact.

 

God knows we need it.

 

1st season out fo the prem and people think we will bounce straight back up so attendances will stay high.

 

change in the board gets fans thinking there is some kind of revival going on so attendances stay up

 

play offs give us hope that the following season will be our time so attendances stay up

 

completly arse season ending in a relegation fight followed by really bad finances which leads to losing our best players/highest earners and guess what? our attendances go down and they keep going down while the results continue to get worse.

 

Some of that is down to the return of lowe cause TBH I dont want to go there and support him but I know many people that just cant be bothered to waste there money when they know we are half the team we once were. Its peoples choice to be like that and maybe if Lowe wasnt around people would have a bit more loyalty with the club while it goes through its bad times. But the only replacements dont seem much better TBH so do we support the club and hope it drags its self out of this mess or do we stand back and continue to watch it rot?

 

About 3000, I think.

 

Most season ticket holders renew under the March Madness/Early Bird/whatever you want to call it scheme as it's the cheapest way of doing it. Therefore, I am in slight agreement with NickG that last season's "performances" (and I use that word lightly) have had a pretty significant impact on this season's attendances.

 

In March, we were probably at our lowest ebb, having been dumped out of the cup by Bristol Rovers and then that bloody awful Plymouth home game a few days later, which could easily have persuaded many that they might as well save themselves the best part of £400 and not bother renewing their season ticket.

 

It would, of course, be wrong to use that as the sole reason though - there are simply so many possible reasons that, added together, have contributed to the decline.

 

IMO the drop is due to several things -

 

1. Very poor last season

2. Bad atmosphere at games last season - fans getting on the backs of players

3. Playing the youngsters this year - no 'stars' to attract the more fickle fans

4. Lowe

5. Fewer pounds, shillings and pence in peoples pockets

6. Fewer fans at games this year = worse atmosphere = fewer fans (I call this the spiral effect)

7. Genuine disatisfaction or disinterest with football generally/CCC football/poor standard of refereeing etc

 

For me, I havent bought a ticket this year because of reason 2, 5 and partly 7 (I sometimes fish on a Saturday now instead - something I hadnt always had the option to do when I had a season ticket).

 

I can categorically state that Lowe's return has not accounted for the club losing my season ticket subscription this year. I am not that shallow.

 

I still go and see most games one way or another, just for the record.

 

Mr Sideburns -a lot of people who need your sympathy!

[NickG]

You can assure us all you like that Lowe has nothing to do with falling attendances, but unless you are able to back up your assertion with concrete facts, you are p*ssing in the wind. The truth is that nobody realistically has any evidence of how many of those staying away are doing so because of Lowe or because the football is crap.

 

As for suggesting that the stayaways go and support some other team, then you obviously don't know the mentality of why people follow a particular club. Any who would have supported on of the glory teams would have done so long ago. As for even mentioning our local rivals as a possibility, well, my mind boggles.

 

true but arguement works both ways. IMHO Lowe -marginal effect, last two years huge effect. this season -(Lowe's fault?) large effect

[Viking Warrior]

..........................

Edited 7 December, 2008 by Viking Warrior

[SaintRichmond]

As far as I'm aware, the bank were happy with the way things were being operated in terms of the cost-cutting, etc. However, the attendances are below what is required for those reduced costs to actually make a difference, so I suspect they'll be getting a bit twitchy again. I'd expect them to wait until after the end of January before deciding whether to actually do anything or not though.

 

 

 

By which time Lowelife will have sold off all the Young Guns that are playing well in our so called First Team ......... and thus satisfy the Banking requirements .........

 

........ that fact that that action only goes to weaken an already weak CCC Team matters not one iota to Mr Football.

[Chez]

IMO the drop is due to several things -

 

1. Very poor last season

2. Bad atmosphere at games last season - fans getting on the backs of players

3. Playing the youngsters this year - no 'stars' to attract the more fickle fans

4. Lowe

5. Fewer pounds, shillings and pence in peoples pockets

6. Fewer fans at games this year = worse atmosphere = fewer fans (I call this the spiral effect)

7. Genuine disatisfaction or disinterest with football generally/CCC football/poor standard of refereeing etc

 

For me, I havent bought a ticket this year because of reason 2, 5 and partly 7 (I sometimes fish on a Saturday now instead - something I hadnt always had the option to do when I had a season ticket).

 

I can categorically state that Lowe's return has not accounted for the club losing my season ticket subscription this year. I am not that shallow.

 

I still go and see most games one way or another, just for the record.

 

You miss out `losing games this season' on your list otherwise it is spot on. 5000 down opn last season can NOT be attributed to Lowe alone and anyone suggesting such is talking ****e.

 

I presume you meant you hadn't bought a ST seeing as you go to games.

[Chez]

1st season out fo the prem and people think we will bounce straight back up so attendances will stay high.

 

change in the board gets fans thinking there is some kind of revival going on so attendances stay up

 

play offs give us hope that the following season will be our time so attendances stay up

 

completly arse season ending in a relegation fight followed by really bad finances which leads to losing our best players/highest earners and guess what? our attendances go down and they keep going down while the results continue to get worse.

 

 

in a nutshell.

[SaintRichmond]

God you got to hand to you guys

 

We lose a match (Again) and all we have is the anti lowe out brigade out in force.

 

The club is stuffed whether it is Lowe or Crouch at the helm. until we get some rich benefactor in at the club. the fortunes of the club will not change.

 

The bank knows this. I suspect the bank would prefer to have Lowe at the helm as he knows how to tighten the purse strings, Crouch knows how to do this as well, hes able to put a ligature to stop a venal vein bleed, but he is totally oblivious to the fact that the club is also haemorraging money from a main artery.

 

If the bank were to force lowe out, It will only mean one thing, WE HAVE HIT ADMINISTRATION and we will be on 6 points in the championship instead of 16. Maybe thats what most of you all want for the club.[/QUOTE]

 

 

 

I've honestly come round to that way of thinking ....

 

All Lowe is doing is bailing out a boat with massive holes in it ..... It is NOT going to work. The damage has already been done ...... our overal DEBT is STILL rising .... What is the point of Lowe selling off everything he can, if at the end of it all we are STILL massively down the Toilet.

 

DRAW A LINE UNDER IT .... opt for Administration........ you can't argue that we'd lose all our players, because we already have .........

 

Bitter a pill to swallow it might be, but it is now the ONLY way to start afresh from a level playing field, and allow SAINTS to get rid of Leeches like Lowe & Wilde forever

[Gemmel]

Bitter a pill to swallow it might be, but it is now the ONLY way to start afresh from a level playing field, and allow SAINTS to get rid of Leeches like Lowe & Wilde forever

 

How would we start a fresh on a level playing field?

 

The largest part of our debt is the stadium. To carry on playing at St Mary's we still need to servce that debt. Administration won't make it disapear.

[Blandford saint]

Watching Saints has gone from something to enjoy to something to endure, which makes it perfectly understandable that many thousands stay away. However large Lowe's part in our demise, this does not give the bank a concrete reason to kick him out. And what's the other option? Only an administrator, as no one else is willing to take us and our debts on.

[saintjay77]

 

I've honestly come round to that way of thinking ....

 

All Lowe is doing is bailing out a boat with massive holes in it ..... It is NOT going to work. The damage has already been done ...... our overal DEBT is STILL rising .... What is the point of Lowe selling off everything he can, if at the end of it all we are STILL massively down the Toilet.

 

DRAW A LINE UNDER IT .... opt for Administration........ you can't argue that we'd lose all our players, because we already have .........

 

Bitter a pill to swallow it might be, but it is now the ONLY way to start afresh from a level playing field, and allow SAINTS to get rid of Leeches like Lowe & Wilde forever

 

I've honestly come round to that way of thinking ................... that you dont really have a clue.

 

Administration would bring with it a points penalty, no-one is going to opt for administration while there is still a chance we wont get relegated and the banks will try to support us. if either of these things change then administration will surly follow. with that any and i mean Any saleable assets will be sold to the highest bidder, which wont be very high.

 

Our start to league 1 will be with the same people that we have in charge now as they will try to make the most out of a situation where they may lose allot of money and get the club balk dead cheap minus debt. we will also probably start with yet another points penalty and a team made up of under 16s and the odd journy men that would also struggle to get us out of league 1 and do there best to save us from yet another relegation fight.

 

And you would support this rather than support the club trying to bail themselves out of it?

[Snowballs2]

I guess its now got to be like the captain of the Titanic looking for the next iceberg to steer the ship at.

We are in deep trouble, I can see no point in pouring more money into a bucket with a giant hole in it.

Unless your name is Lowe, its time to either move over and let someone else put money in in return for his shares or call in the Administrators.

Lowe has not just got a massive ego but his pride will not let him admit that he is again out of his depth

[SaintRichmond]

How would we start a fresh on a level playing field?

 

The largest part of our debt is the stadium. To carry on playing at St Mary's we still need to servce that debt. Administration won't make it disapear.

 

 

In Administration, without the "Albatros" of Lowe round our necks, even in this so called global Financial turmoil, there would be more than one "Buyer" to snap us up, and take us forward

 

With Lowe, and the state we are in at present, we have NO WAY of breaking the circle

 

Whether I want Admin or not is beside the point .... IMHO, it is inevitable. Lowe's rearguard action of selling everything that moves is NOT reducing our overal DEBT, and therefore is pointless, and very very damaging to what you and I go to St Mary's for

 

THE SAINTS

[stevegrant]

In Administration, without the "Albatros" of Lowe round our necks, even in this so called global Financial turmoil, there would be more than one "Buyer" to snap us up, and take us forward

 

With Lowe, and the state we are in at present, we have NO WAY of breaking the circle

 

Whether I want Admin or not is beside the point .... IMHO, it is inevitable. Lowe's rearguard action of selling everything that moves is NOT reducing our overal DEBT, and therefore is pointless, and very very damaging to what you and I go to St Mary's for

 

THE SAINTS

If the club were in administration, I would put serious money on Lowe and his City/WH Ireland chums coming up with the readies to buy 100% of the club for a pittance leaving him in total control. I'm sure you'd probably spontaneously combust just thinking about that possibility...

 

A club with "regular" outgoings (i.e. not transfer fees) that are nearly double its "regular" income isn't going to be remotely attractive to any self-respecting businessman not already connected with the club.

 

You seem to be under the impression that there are hundreds of multi-millionaires waiting in the wings to buy a substantial loss-making company just for a bit of an ego-trip. The prime opportunity for any such person to take over would have been two to three years ago when our income streams were still being supplemented by the Premier League's parachute payments as that allowed us to continue paying near-Premier League wages to the playing staff. Nobody with the right interests or the amount of money required would take a second look now.

[Long Shot]

Is that from the same 'fact factory' that had us believe Salz and Crouch would be at the game on Saturday, or is this a different type of "fact" ?

 

The usual apologies ion advance for my cynicism.....

 

 

Who said they weren't there? Not me. You have a pm Trousers.

[Gemmel]

In Administration, without the "Albatros" of Lowe round our necks, even in this so called global Financial turmoil, there would be more than one "Buyer" to snap us up, and take us forward

 

With Lowe, and the state we are in at present, we have NO WAY of breaking the circle

 

Whether I want Admin or not is beside the point .... IMHO, it is inevitable. Lowe's rearguard action of selling everything that moves is NOT reducing our overal DEBT, and therefore is pointless, and very very damaging to what you and I go to St Mary's for

 

THE SAINTS

 

There is no gurantee that administration would mean the end of lowe or wilde and i just cant see anyone coming in to by us. Even if they did for minimal money they would still have the stadium debt (Over 20 million) to manage.

 

It is really not the answer.

[slickmick]

If the club were in administration, I would put serious money on Lowe and his City/WH Ireland chums coming up with the readies to buy 100% of the club for a pittance leaving him in total control. I'm sure you'd probably spontaneously combust just thinking about that possibility...

 

A club with "regular" outgoings (i.e. not transfer fees) that are nearly double its "regular" income isn't going to be remotely attractive to any self-respecting businessman not already connected with the club.

 

You seem to be under the impression that there are hundreds of multi-millionaires waiting in the wings to buy a substantial loss-making company just for a bit of an ego-trip. The prime opportunity for any such person to take over would have been two to three years ago when our income streams were still being supplemented by the Premier League's parachute payments as that allowed us to continue paying near-Premier League wages to the playing staff. Nobody with the right interests or the amount of money required would take a second look now.

 

 

But the lower class at the other end of the M27 seem to be in advanced talks with a gold digging South African ? And they are a much bigger loss making company than us.

[St Marco]

As far as I'm aware, the bank were happy with the way things were being operated in terms of the cost-cutting, etc. However, the attendances are below what is required for those reduced costs to actually make a difference, so I suspect they'll be getting a bit twitchy again. I'd expect them to wait until after the end of January before deciding whether to actually do anything or not though.

 

Think your 100% right Steve.

 

People have to understand the bank is not our friend, it is not Lowe's friend. They are a buisness which is designed purely around making tons and tons of money. They are not in this proffession to lose cash. Especially in the climate we find ourselves in now.

When Lowe returned he would of had a buisness plan. We don't know what that is but it was at least about making the debt smaller and cutting our expenditure my however much %. In that plan they would of predicted various factors to get to their lump sums i.e we expect average attendences of say 20k each week. The bank would see that as a steady income and green light the plans. However roll on 6 months and the landscape has changed. If we are not keeping in line with our agreement then the bank will become concerned. We know Lowe has increased borrowing, this much is true. The question then becomes what is the gap now between the income and the outcome. If it has increased to a bad point which i think it has for us to need to ship players out on loan then we are in trouble. If it is at that point then we will have no option but to sell in january to stay in line with our agreed forecast. The problem then becomes how much we need to raise from sales and if realisticly we can risk it. If for example we are doing bad now how bad would we do if we lost Davis and Surman? Then lost Lallana? Obviously we would be in a worse place.

 

So i think as Steve say's January is the important time. If we see players being shipped out we will know the problem has got a lot worse. Meaning Lowe would have no choice but to resign in my view.

[Snowballs2]

If the club were in administration, I would put serious money on Lowe and his City/WH Ireland chums coming up with the readies to buy 100% of the club for a pittance leaving him in total control. I'm sure you'd probably spontaneously combust just thinking about that possibility...

 

A club with "regular" outgoings (i.e. not transfer fees) that are nearly double its "regular" income isn't going to be remotely attractive to any self-respecting businessman not already connected with the club.

 

You seem to be under the impression that there are hundreds of multi-millionaires waiting in the wings to buy a substantial loss-making company just for a bit of an ego-trip. The prime opportunity for any such person to take over would have been two to three years ago when our income streams were still being supplemented by the Premier League's parachute payments as that allowed us to continue paying near-Premier League wages to the playing staff. Nobody with the right interests or the amount of money required would take a second look now.

 

 

You might be right Steve...personally I don't think so. Lowe must know that in the event that he and his chums buy all the shares it would have a massive affect on attendances. Possibly not THIS season, but next. The number of season ticket renewals would be down dramatically as would the number of tickets sold matchdays and prior to match day would deminish.

In all honesty even Lowe must now realise that his time is well and truly up in the eyes of the average "customer".

You cannot force people to like you anymore than you can force people to buy tickets.

The only real option left IMO is for Crouch to get more involved financially and bring someone like Mr Saltz

[stevegrant]

But the lower class at the other end of the M27 seem to be in advanced talks with a gold digging South African ? And they are a much bigger loss making company than us.

They also have a much bigger guaranteed revenue stream than us at the moment. The only way that will change is if this proposed takeover doesn't happen (and I've no reason to think that it will go through - they've had more supposed "talks" with investors than we have in the last few years!) and they end up having to flog anyone of any value in January/next summer. Then they'll be in real danger of joining us back in the Football League.

[stevegrant]

When Lowe returned he would of had a buisness plan. We don't know what that is but it was at least about making the debt smaller and cutting our expenditure my however much %. In that plan they would of predicted various factors to get to their lump sums i.e we expect average attendences of say 20k each week. The bank would see that as a steady income and green light the plans.

Yep, although I'm led to believe that the target average attendance was 17k.

 

So i think as Steve say's January is the important time. If we see players being shipped out we will know the problem has got a lot worse. Meaning Lowe would have no choice but to resign in my view.

I think players would be leaving in January regardless of whether the position had weakened, stagnated or even strengthened slightly.

 

Even an improvement on last year's projected figures (£13m operating loss) would most likely still see the club report another annual loss, which obviously still weakens the debt position.

 

If the recent reports about £5m interest from Arsenal (and others) for Schneiderlin are true then that could be the one bit of business that saves our skin, IMO. From calculations I did a while back, I reckon the wage bill has been cut by £5m. Add that to a potential £5m transfer windfall just from that one sale (personally, I doubt we'd get that much, but would bite their hand off if it was actually offered!) and that has clawed back the vast majority of last year's operating loss.

 

The problem in the bank's eyes, though, is almost certainly the "regular" income, i.e. gate receipts. There's only so long that they will accept a "firefighting" approach by the club while the regular and dependable income is slowly reducing match by match.

[Mole]

If Saints go into administration the creditors will want the best possible return from the administrators. This means the best offer on he table. I cannot see Lowe and his pack being any match for Crouch and Salz.

[SaintRichmond]

I've honestly come round to that way of thinking ................... that you dont really have a clue.

 

Administration would bring with it a points penalty, no-one is going to opt for administration while there is still a chance we wont get relegated and the banks will try to support us. if either of these things change then administration will surly follow. with that any and i mean Any saleable assets will be sold to the highest bidder, which wont be very high.

 

Our start to league 1 will be with the same people that we have in charge now as they will try to make the most out of a situation where they may lose allot of money and get the club balk dead cheap minus debt. we will also probably start with yet another points penalty and a team made up of under 16s and the odd journy men that would also struggle to get us out of league 1 and do there best to save us from yet another relegation fight.

 

And you would support this rather than support the club trying to bail themselves out of it?

 

 

OK, we are curently circa £24 M in debt ..... and rising

 

Now if YOU were a Business in that state, with less and less Revenue coming INTO the business ... how long would you survive ???

 

Forget about the points penalty ... that is the LEAST of our worries at the moment

 

The way we are being led at the moment, it will not be long before we go into Liquidation, let alone Administration

 

Makes me laugh, people saying Administration is a bad thing and must be avoided at all costs ...... How much worse could it be than the mess we are curently in ???

 

If we were riding high in the Prem, still getting circa 30000 crowds, in Europe, with an attractive Team to get you to go to St Mary's, then yes, we might be able to reduce the debt .... but we arn't .... we are a struggling CCC Team, with a bunch of youngsters lacking the experience to even keep us there. ......... We have a Chairman who has (again) split the Fanbase .... we have diminishing crowds ...... we do NOT have enough INCOME to even pay off the Interest on our loans

 

We have no future with Lowe .... simply spiralling Debts, that soon will be completely out of control.

 

HOW MUCH DEBT are you prepared to tolerate before you see the wood from the trees ????

 

You say that I don't have a clue .......... Really ??? ....... I think it is others who do not have a clue my friend

[Snowballs2]

If Saints go into administration the creditors will want the best possible return from the administrators. This means the best offer on he table. I cannot see Lowe and his pack being any match for Crouch and Salz.

 

I hope that you are right