Unbelievable Jeff Posted 7 November, 2013 Author Share Posted 7 November, 2013 (edited) Loads of posts from lots of different posters saying they were surprised we didn't play more first teamers ? I must have missed all these posts. After the game there were, but before there weren't. Why are you struggling with this? My point was before the game there were very few people complaining that we put a weaker team out, as it was obvious that we'd do so. However, after we lost, there was an uproar at the squad selection, as if people actually expected any different. I don't know why anyone would expect any different, that is not the club we are anymore. Understand? Edited 7 November, 2013 by Unbelievable Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 7 November, 2013 Author Share Posted 7 November, 2013 He does struggle with facts, our Jeff. You seem to struggle with most things by the look of it...you so special CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 (edited) After the game there were, but before there weren't. Why are you struggling with this? My point was before the game there were very few people complaining that we put a weaker team out, as it was obvious that we'd do so. However, after we lost, there was an uproar at the squad selection, as if people actually expected any different. I don't know why anyone would expect any different, that is not the club we are anymore. Understand? The "uproar" (your words) was because we'd been knocked out. Before the game we hadn't been knocked out. People on here, quite sensibly, decided not to go Alpine-esque and say we'd lose before we'd kicked a ball. Not difficult is it? Edited 7 November, 2013 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 Jeff, I think pretty much everyone knew before the game that we wouldn't play a full strength team. That said, did anyone predict we'd play such a changed side? I don't know, I didn't really pay much attention. But I know that I was hoping we'd play more first team players. When I found out the team I was disappointed and expected defeat; so much so that I bet on Sunderland to win (shame on me etc.). So I don't think you're right in suggesting that a below strength side was a surprise. More that it was disappointing (to some) that we made so many changes, and notion that an opportunity might have been missed had we gone for a stronger line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 After the game there were, but before there weren't. Why are you struggling with this? My point was before the game there were very few people complaining that we put a weaker team out, as it was obvious that we'd do so. However, after we lost, there was an uproar at the squad selection, as if people actually expected any different. I don't know why anyone would expect any different, that is not the club we are anymore. Understand? No. Thats not how I see it. Most realised it'd be a weaker team last night, contrary to your suggestion in the opening post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 7 November, 2013 Author Share Posted 7 November, 2013 No. Thats not how I see it. Most realised it'd be a weaker team last night, contrary to your suggestion in the opening post. And where did I say that everyone didn't realise that? Why do you think I am talking about a majority where there is nothing in my OP to suggest this? What is wrong with my opening post? Why don't you break it down and let me know what I have said that is so wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 7 November, 2013 Author Share Posted 7 November, 2013 Jeff, I think pretty much everyone knew before the game that we wouldn't play a full strength team. That said, did anyone predict we'd play such a changed side? I don't know, I didn't really pay much attention. But I know that I was hoping we'd play more first team players. When I found out the team I was disappointed and expected defeat; so much so that I bet on Sunderland to win (shame on me etc.). So I don't think you're right in suggesting that a below strength side was a surprise. More that it was disappointing (to some) that we made so many changes, and notion that an opportunity might have been missed had we gone for a stronger line up. Yep, I bet on Sunderland too, before the teams were announced. Got excellent odds because of that and went home with just over £130. I would have loved to see us do well in a Cup, but my OP is more about the fact that this is NOT what the club is anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 (edited) Yep, I bet on Sunderland too, before the teams were announced. Got excellent odds because of that and went home with just over £130. I would have loved to see us do well in a Cup, but my OP is more about the fact that this is NOT what the club is anymore. Odds were ridiculous given the team that we were going to play. Anyone who got the 27/10 that someone said that they were quoting as late as Monday or Tuesday must be laughing today. We were never ever going to win that game, not with our rentajoke keeper. Anyway we already have 7 games in December, certainly didn't need another one given that most of our players are now internationals and that they have up to 6 fixtures in November as well. Chelsea now have 9 games in 29 days in December,10 in 32 if you count our game with them on New Year's Day, could crack ? that would be really handy. Edited 7 November, 2013 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 And where did I say that everyone didn't realise that? Why do you think I am talking about a majority where there is nothing in my OP to suggest this? What is wrong with my opening post? Why don't you break it down and let me know what I have said that is so wrong? Mainly, what is the point of a thread on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 When I saw the team it was pretty much as I expected and in line with previous rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 Odds were ridiculous given the team that we were going to play. Anyone who got the 27/10 that someone said that they were quoting as late as Monday or Tuesday must be laughing today. We were never ever going to win that game, not with our rentajoke keeper. Anyway we already have 7 games in December, certainly didn't need another one given that most of our players are now internationals and that they have up to 6 fixtures in November as well. Chelsea now have 9 games in 29 days in December,10 in 32 if you count our game with them on New Year's Day, could crack ? that would be really handy. They coped last year, they even celebrated a little when they won the lesser European trophy as well............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 They coped last year, they even celebrated a little when they won the lesser European trophy as well............. They had some pretty iffy results in November January and February though, coped pretty well in December, then again they only had 5 league games. They entered the EL after being eliminated from the CL pretty dismally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 Not sure about that - "We are a little bit disappointed to be out of the cup because it was an important competition for us to provide minutes for our squad and for our youngsters who, as you know, we like to use. We have a squad and we need to use all the players and give minutes in this type of game because the season is so long. In the next couple of months, we have a very tough period of games and we need everyone in the best form because sure, it will be important for the rest of the season." Do you really think we couldn't pick a stronger team that had a chance of winning - maybe SRL and Morgan for example - and still play Hull at home before an international break? Would they be that tired? It makes little sense seeing he didn't rest Lallana, Rodrigues or JWP anyway. All this champions league talk is a bit embarrassing and OTT in my view we are doing great and being applauded rightly by critics but let's all calm down a bit...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 They had some pretty iffy results in November January and February though, coped pretty well in December, then again they only had 5 league games. They entered the EL after being eliminated from the CL pretty dismally. That was last season not this season, they also went out on goal difference if I recall or matches against closest rival, they also pkayed more games than any other team last season and still won the europa league, dont let the truth get in the way of your srgument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 In one post the clappers are saying forget the cups.... Waste of time we are going for top 4 In the next post saying "we will never finish top 4" I like a good forum debate like the next man, but this is embarrasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 In one post the clappers are saying forget the cups.... Waste of time we are going for top 4 In the next post saying "we will never finish top 4" I like a good forum debate like the next man, but this is embarrasing. I think you are simply translating posts in the way that you want them to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 I think you are simply translating posts in the way that you want them to read. Dont think so? The clappers are now happy and arguing about being content to finish mid table.... We are the new Fulham and the clappers are asking us to celebrate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 In one post the clappers are saying forget the cups.... Waste of time we are going for top 4 In the next post saying "we will never finish top 4" I like a good forum debate like the next man, but this is embarrasing. I find your posts give me an erotic buzz. Don't ever stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 Dont think so? The clappers are now happy and arguing about being content to finish mid table.... We are the new Fulham and the clappers are asking us to celebrate it What happened to the new Glasgow, the one that wanted to be funny and light-hearted and not so serious and heavy-going? Don't give up Glasgow - we all want you to succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 Why do some people resort to petty insults when they start losing in a reasoned argument/debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 November, 2013 Share Posted 7 November, 2013 Why do some people resort to petty insults when they start losing in a reasoned argument/debate? How do you lose a debate? Surely its just an exchange of different viewpoints? Sometimes you might change your opinion if the other side puts up some good reasoning, but otherwise is it not just two different sides of an opinion coming together? I'm not even sure you can have a right answer to the question "should we have played more first teamers against Sunderland?", just some people who'll believe yes and some who'll believe no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 Dont think so? The clappers are now happy and arguing about being content to finish mid table.... We are the new Fulham and the clappers are asking us to celebrate ityour position that people who are being realistic are happy clappers is arrogant but also quite childish. We are not the new Fulham but a progressive club that has a pragmatic approach to this season. You are the happy clapper if we are going to that level having the mindset that we had a hope of winning the cup considering the hurdles we needed to overcome to win it. Sunderland away was the easiest part of it. A few seasons ago Birmingham won the cup, Blackpool were riding high and just last sdeason Wigan won the FA Cup do you see the pattern? Watching Soccer Sunday it was interesting and also a tad worrying to hear TonyAdams say that under George Graham Arsenal also played the high pressing game and were quickly burnt out. he felt we would plummet around Christmas. Now of course that is his opinion, but we should take that on board. Yes we have 19 points at present but if we did get a string of injuries to our prime players we could be in difficultly, remember how Killers injury and BT going cost us? Therefore please excuse the people who are being realistic from holding the view that at this time in the clubs progression the hunger for a qtr final against Chelsea is not the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 your position that people who are being realistic are happy clappers is arrogant but also quite childish. We are not the new Fulham but a progressive club that has a pragmatic approach to this season. You are the happy clapper if we are going to that level having the mindset that we had a hope of winning the cup considering the hurdles we needed to overcome to win it. Sunderland away was the easiest part of it. A few seasons ago Birmingham won the cup, Blackpool were riding high and just last sdeason Wigan won the FA Cup do you see the pattern? Watching Soccer Sunday it was interesting and also a tad worrying to hear TonyAdams say that under George Graham Arsenal also played the high pressing game and were quickly burnt out. he felt we would plummet around Christmas. Now of course that is his opinion, but we should take that on board. Yes we have 19 points at present but if we did get a string of injuries to our prime players we could be in difficultly, remember how Killers injury and BT going cost us? Therefore please excuse the people who are being realistic from holding the view that at this time in the clubs progression the hunger for a qtr final against Chelsea is not the priority. So your viewpoint after all that is a safety first 40 point mark before we can relax? I agree to an extent but the clappers will go along with Cortese's thoughts of championsleague not of a possible relegation, two equally wasted thoughts though as we wont do either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 8 November, 2013 Author Share Posted 8 November, 2013 So your viewpoint after all that is a safety first 40 point mark before we can relax? I agree to an extent but the clappers will go along with Cortese's thoughts of championsleague not of a possible relegation, two equally wasted thoughts though as we wont do either. Safety first. I still haven't seen antone who said we should be pushing for top 4 yet. I did task you withthat but I presume you haven't found any yet, even though you are still perpetuating the myth that it is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 (edited) Safety first. I still haven't seen antone who said we should be pushing for top 4 yet. I did task you withthat but I presume you haven't found any yet, even though you are still perpetuating the myth that it is true. Top 6? European football asured with a top 5? You would take 7th? Good trophy for that now is it? Pat on the back from the FA? Or simply fa? Edited 8 November, 2013 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 8 November, 2013 Author Share Posted 8 November, 2013 Top 6? European football asured with a top 5? You would take 7th? Good trophy for that now is it? Pat on the back from the FA? Or simply fa? What? As I said in the original post I would like to have won something. How's the search going for these posts? Not well I guess :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 So your viewpoint after all that is a safety first 40 point mark before we can relax? I agree to an extent but the clappers will go along with Cortese's thoughts of championsleague not of a possible relegation, two equally wasted thoughts though as we wont do either. Ignoring the successive and blatant wind ups (whatever happened to the old Glasgow Saint who posted normally? Were you frightened into a personality change to avoid becoming a victim of the forum 'bully boys'?) opinion on this will depend on how much winning any trophy means versus managed progress. The have clearly stated they want to eventually do something special - most opinion suggests this is highly unlikely because we don't have the money that acquires and keeps world class players and top 4 all have at least 1 if lucky 2 of those + high quality not only I starting 11 but throughout the squad. So the strategy is home grown + buying young players I the hope you unearth some gems that develop into class acts within this division and the prem. Sometimes it works, eg Loren, others not so much such as Gaston. It's always riskier with younger players, especially when price is higher... But its the way NC has chosen to go and so far we can't complain. (But some still do, or constantly take the **** out of OUR players - so much for support... If folks haean issue with NC or the transfer, they should say so, but constant **** take out of our players is just childish) As to playing weakened sides in this competition... Well it's clear to most that we do not yet have the strength in depth in all areas to continue pushing for as high a league place as we can as well as compete on all fronts... Higher league position this season is in my opinion important as in theory will impact on players staying and who we can attract to progress the squad again... IMO not a bad strategy and aligned with the yearly progress that NC wants the team put out, did not perform as well as they could have, given the opportunity some had of staking a claim for greater prem inclusion... More work needed yet first 20 minutes showed they are aligned with the same style of play used by first 11 so in theory should provide reasonable cover when called upon. You and others like to go on about 'happy flappy' - well, good for the happy clap pies I say, if we can't enjoy where we are now what can we enjoy, or is misery the only thing saints are meant to bring to the table? Want players to succeed, improve and do better is good. Expecting progress and improvement is good. Enjoying being top 6 with some decent play, is great. Slagging players whether because of their struggle to adjust, or to covertly slag NC transfers seems pretty pathetic - not least because the strategy and decisions made to date have us where we are despite those things that have not worked out so far. Enjoy it FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 So your viewpoint after all that is a safety first 40 point mark before we can relax? I agree to an extent but the clappers will go along with Cortese's thoughts of championsleague not of a possible relegation, two equally wasted thoughts though as we wont do either. The CL thing at present is a dream (although this season may be the best chance for a long time to come) due to the lack of depth if / when our better players are not available. For us at this moment staying up is no.1 priority, then Europa league and if we somehow string a lot of good results together the impossible dream may come true. The league cup IMO is not worth the trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 The CL thing at present is a dream (although this season may be the best chance for a long time to come) due to the lack of depth if / when our better players are not available. For us at this moment staying up is no.1 priority, then Europa league and if we somehow string a lot of good results together the impossible dream may come true. The league cup IMO is not worth the trouble Thing with the Europa League is that you can probably go to Krasnodar (wherever that might be) with your bis 11 and actually get a result, can't do that at Sunderland or Hull. Still think if we'd played Gazzaniga we had a better chance of a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 The club have got it right. SMS half closed, the rest not even half full in the previous round, SOL one third full. The supporters patently don't rate it especially as it is a reserve team competition. It really doesn't rate a Europa place which is a sop to the sponsors. The Europa place should go to the next highest EPL teams along with the FA Cup Europa place currently used by Championship mid table Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 The club have got it right. SMS half closed, the rest not even half full in the previous round, SOL one third full. The supporters patently don't rate it especially as it is a reserve team competition. It really doesn't rate a Europa place which is a sop to the sponsors. The Europa place should go to the next highest EPL teams along with the FA Cup Europa place currently used by Championship mid table Wigan. Do that and the cup is dead. And, just speaking personally, I think winning a major cup should be rewarded more than finishing 6th or 7th in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 Do that and the cup is dead. And, just speaking personally, I think winning a major cup should be rewarded more than finishing 6th or 7th in the league. Cups are dead anyway, unless you have a big 4 plethoric squad you'll as likely as not end up struggling for survival or even getting relegatd if you take cups seriously. Of course you might get a pathway like us in 03 and come out of it well but there are far too many cup run casualties to attest to the perils of a long cup campaign in our day and age. Wigan, Birmingham, Portsmouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 Do that and the cup is dead. And, just speaking personally, I think winning a major cup should be rewarded more than finishing 6th or 7th in the league. I find it quite hilarious that some of the mugs on here described swanseas season as boring despite them winning a cup, finishing 9th and playing some great stuff, yet would happily swap that for no trophies and finishing 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 The club have got it right. SMS half closed, the rest not even half full in the previous round, SOL one third full. The supporters patently don't rate it especially as it is a reserve team competition. It really doesn't rate a Europa place which is a sop to the sponsors. The Europa place should go to the next highest EPL teams along with the FA Cup Europa place currently used by Championship mid table Wigan. Supporters "don't rate it", because teams put out such weakened sides, not the other way around. Did I hear right that from next season the League Cup winners will get a Champs League place? Or was that FA Cup? Would you not be excited by Saints playing (for example) Man Utd at Wembley with a chance of a trophy and a European place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 Supporters "don't rate it", because teams put out such weakened sides, not the other way around. Did I hear right that from next season the League Cup winners will get a Champs League place? Or was that FA Cup? Would you not be excited by Saints playing (for example) Man Utd at Wembley with a chance of a trophy and a European place? No mate, sod the Mickey Mouse cups if it was the difference between finishing 8th and 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 Cups are dead anyway, No they aren't, and its utterly ridiculous to suggest they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 I find it quite hilarious that some of the mugs on here described swanseas season as boring despite them winning a cup, finishing 9th and playing some great stuff, yet would happily swap that for no trophies and finishing 7th. As a Saints fan who hasn't seen his side finish as high as 7th in the top division since the late 80s, my idea is that our best chances of success comes in the Cup. Finishing 6th or 7th, for me, is a pat on the back and a recognition of a decent season, and wondering what happens next. A cup win is etched in our history. Its remembered by all our fans. I find it surprising its so far down in the list of priorities for so many. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't really get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 As a Saints fan who hasn't seen his side finish as high as 7th in the top division since the late 80s, my idea is that our best chances of success comes in the Cup. Finishing 6th or 7th, for me, is a pat on the back and a recognition of a decent season, and wondering what happens next. A cup win is etched in our history. Its remembered by all our fans. I find it surprising its so far down in the list of priorities for so many. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't really get it. I quite agree. One of the best posts I've seen in the last week proclaimed in his eyes it was 'champions league or nothing' considering we aren't going to qualify for the champions league then the nothing consolation prize seems a bit hollow. One trophy on 128 years yet the majority seem to be turning their nose up at the prospect of another instead they'd take a couple of places higher up the table. In truth what is the difference between finishing 7th and 10th in real terms? Maybe a million or so worth of prize money and a few back slaps from the media but that's about it. Yet some would happily take that over winning the league cup and having our names ingraved on the cup forever, it's a bit odd IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 what makes me laugh is I was annoyed we played a weakened team at Leeds last year when we could have had a go at the cup (look at Bradford) but was told on here that was ridiculous to risk our beat players when premier league survival was at stake ! some people said aim for consolidation in the league then have a go at the cups. and this year ? no once again we couldn't possibly risk some first teamers in the attempt to win a cup, far to important to keep them for our champions league push! theirs always an excuse. and Derry , small crowd for saints is due to reserve side and high prices. cheap deals and at least look like we take it seriously would see much higher crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 (edited) Cups are dead anyway, unless you have a big 4 plethoric squad you'll as likely as not end up struggling for survival or even getting relegatd if you take cups seriously. Of course you might get a pathway like us in 03 and come out of it well but there are far too many cup run casualties to attest to the perils of a long cup campaign in our day and age. Wigan, Birmingham, Portsmouth Thankfully there are absolutely no casualties to attest to the challenges arising from getting into the Champions League. Newcastle and Leeds never looked back. After they were relegated. Edited 8 November, 2013 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 I quite agree. One of the best posts I've seen in the last week proclaimed in his eyes it was 'champions league or nothing' considering we aren't going to qualify for the champions league then the nothing consolation prize seems a bit hollow. One trophy on 128 years yet the majority seem to be turning their nose up at the prospect of another instead they'd take a couple of places higher up the table. In truth what is the difference between finishing 7th and 10th in real terms? Maybe a million or so worth of prize money and a few back slaps from the media but that's about it. Yet some would happily take that over winning the league cup and having our names ingraved on the cup forever, it's a bit odd IMO. The league cup has been a Mickey Mouse cup for years. There tends to be a spike of interest around the final, whipped up by the media but that's it. As the cliche goes, the league doesn't lie. So it's not about about a pat on the back for finishing 8th instead of 9th, it's ultimately the truest benchmark by which a club measures its progress. More important, it's a good way to blood in our youngsters. Perhaps the Sunderlands of this world don't give a **** about relying on mercenaries but we've spent the whole bloody week on a love-in about we're a hot bed for English talent; yet ignore the roots of its successs and the various means we ensure this pipeline continues. Of course, the cup is not the whole equation; but its part of it. IIRC JWP made his debut up at Palace a couple of years ago (again the club was pilloried for not putting out a stronger side) and Shaw made his debut last year. The cup is a great no-risk learning opportunity for these lads. Too many people want to have their cake and eat it. Perhaps, you accept this and the question was about striking a better balance between youth and first team; but when you see Cork, Jrod, Ramirez, (S) Davis and Yoshida out there with Lallana/JWP coming on, that's a pretty solid core and not a massive downgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 (edited) The league cup has been a Mickey Mouse cup for years. There tends to be a spike of interest around the final, whipped up by the media but that's it. As the cliche goes, the league doesn't lie. So it's not about about a pat on the back for finishing 8th instead of 9th, it's ultimately the truest benchmark by which a club measures its progress. More important, it's a good way to blood in our youngsters. Perhaps the Sunderlands of this world don't give a **** about relying on mercenaries but we've spent the whole bloody week on a love-in about we're a hot bed for English talent; yet ignore the roots of its successs and the various means we ensure this pipeline continues. The cup is not the whole equation; but its part of it. IIRC JWP made his debut up at Palace a couple of years ago (again the club was pilloried for not putting out a stronger side) and Shaw made his debut last year. The cup is a great no-risk learning opportunity for these lads. Too many people want to have their cake and eat it. Perhaps, you accept this and the question was about striking a better balance between youth and first team; but when you see Cork, Jrod, Ramirez, (S) Davis and Yoshida out there, that's a pretty solid core and not a massive downgrade. So you'd refuse to go to the final if we got there then, dismissing it as worthless but would be queuing and beg stealing or borrowing a ticket wherever possible to see us play WBA in the last game of the season to decide if we'd finish as high as 7th or as low as 10th? Edited 8 November, 2013 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 The league cup has been a Mickey Mouse cup for years. There tends to be a spike of interest around the final, whipped up by the media but that's it. As the cliche goes, the league doesn't lie. So it's not about about a pat on the back for finishing 8th instead of 9th, it's ultimately the truest benchmark by which a club measures its progress. It's all very well being a barometer of "progress". But what then? We spent 27 years in the top flight. How much did we "progress". Not very far IMO. And, by the way, why can't "progress" be achieved by doing fairly well in the league AND notching a bit of silverware? For a club that has been starved of any form of winning top level competitions we seem remarkably ambivalent to the stuff we can actually compete for. Fair enough if you think that way, but its not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 I would like to take moment to salute the beauty of current M-board thinking. Don't try and win the league cup: finish fourth. Do try and win the league cup: relegated. I think some people need to work out whether they think we are Wigan or Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 I would like to take moment to salute the beauty of current M-board thinking. Don't try and win the league cup: finish fourth. Do try and win the league cup: relegated. I think some people need to work out whether they think we are Wigan or Chelsea. The black and white polarity of thinking is quite astounding on occasions, it has to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 I would like to take moment to salute the beauty of current M-board thinking. Don't try and win the league cup: finish fourth. Do try and win the league cup: relegated. I think some people need to work out whether they think we are Wigan or Chelsea. Who said that? You and your imaginary straw men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 (edited) So you'd refuse to go to the final if we got there then, dismissing it as worthless but would be queuing and beg stealing or borrowing a ticket wherever possible to see us play WBA in the last game of the season to decide if we'd finish as high as 7th or as low as 10th? Don't see your point? Was there on Wednesday. Am happy the club used it as an opportunity to give a few youngsters a run out and get them one step closer to the first team. As I say, you want to have your cake and eat it. To have a conveyor belt of youth players but not pay the price for it, namely not have to give them proper competitive experience. Edited 8 November, 2013 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 (edited) Who said that? You and your imaginary straw men. Window Cleaner talking about the casualties and specifically Wigan and Birmingham about ten posts ago. Not the only reference to "would you rather be Wigan" type stuff in the last few days, my old chum Le God Third Coming went down that exact route too. And search "Champions League or nothing". Some plank said it. And there are some who "see no reason we can't finish fourth". So there you go. M-board thinking. Some on this thread. Kinda not imaginary. Next question. Edited 8 November, 2013 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 (edited) I would like to take moment to salute the beauty of current M-board thinking. Don't try and win the league cup: finish fourth. Do try and win the league cup: relegated. I think some people need to work out whether they think we are Wigan or Chelsea. What confuses me Is that despite the constant reminders, in dismissing the league cup as beneath us and Micky mouse clearly a lot of our fans have forgotten where we were 4 years ago!! Edited 8 November, 2013 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Durman Posted 8 November, 2013 Share Posted 8 November, 2013 Reckon you are spot on, and it is beyond dispute. BUT Last night did reveal our squad is wafer-thin. We need another GK, CB, LB and more attacking options than we already have. We should also pay more attention to keeping Cork happy, maybe rotate the central midfield a bit. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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