Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I see another main story on all the news has been a another 'racist storm' at st Pancreas station when they got back. Yet again the behaviour of a handful of mouthy idiots dominates then news ahead of all the other terrible things going on in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 In this instance I have no problem with repetition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Loners who go to football on their own :lol: Stick to meeting strangers in pubs, proper weirdo behaviour. One day,you might make your own friends fingers crossed. First off, I've been to like one game on my own in my life? Milwall away in the cup this season. Even there I ended up sharing a drink with the fellas around me. Second, what on earth has such a pathetic ad hominem got to do with anything on this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 First off, I've been to like one game on my own in my life? Milwall away in the cup this season. Even there I ended up sharing a drink with the fellas around me. Second, what on earth has such a pathetic ad hominem got to do with anything on this thread? Pretty weird way of trying to make friends by offering them a mouthful of your drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Pretty weird way of trying to make friends by offering them a mouthful of your drink. What benefit is there to being so deliberately obtuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 What benefit is there to being so deliberately obtuse? Is that what you did then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Is that what you did then? Pretty sure you are smart enough to know exactly what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Why would he have empathised in a personal level? I don't know him, Turkish, so like I said, you'd have to ask him yourself. But as I said, most people take action against something because they have a personal connection on some level. Not all, but most. Do you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I don't know him, Turkish, so like I said, you'd have to ask him yourself. But as I said, most people take action against something because they have a personal connection on some level. Not all, but most. Do you disagree? People do many things for many reasons, I'm curious to know why you're suggesting he'd have a personal connection though. I know you don't know him so it would be an assumption but what would lead you to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Think you are doing Turkish a disservice. Yes he like to be contrary but is a valuable contributor challenging views. Strange how he always pops up on these types of threads though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Strange how he always pops up on these types of threads though. I'm flattered you notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 People do many things for many reasons, I'm curious to know why you're suggesting he'd have a personal connection though. I know you don't know him so it would be an assumption but what would lead you to that? Oh please, Turkish. Grow up. I've already told you what led me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Oh please, Turkish. Grow up. I've already told you what led me to it. Yes, you said there was a 'likelihood he would empathise on a personal level' but won't explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Why would he have empathised in a personal level? Sign reads "It could have been me". Not hard, is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 (edited) Making a good point on Sunday supplement. Very commendable from Chelsea, other clubs and the higher authorities in England and Europe being "disgusted" with what happened. Yet Chelsea won't mind playing at grounds in Europe that are rife with open racism. No one from clubs to Fifa will make a stand what so ever Haha, then the next idiot blames UKiP lol Edited 22 February, 2015 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Sign reads "It could have been me". Not hard, is it. Why could it have been him? was he trying to get on a train on the Paris metro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Making a good point on Sunday supplement. Very commendable from Chelsea, other clubs and the higher authorities in England and Europe being "disgusted" with what happened. Yet Chelsea won't mind playing at grounds in Europe that are rife with open racism. No one from clubs to Fifa will make a stand what so ever Haha, then the next idiot blames UKiP lol They will never stamp out racism until they stop making such an issue of it. Every discriminatory offence should be treated equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 People do many things for many reasons What is the reason you continually act like a massive c*nt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 What is the reason you continually act like a massive c*nt? I enjoy it, you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 They will never stamp out racism until they stop making such an issue of it. Every discriminatory offence should be treated equally. Totally agree. Calling people dirty northern bastards. We are all guilty of it There is also an element of people needing to demonstrate how disgusted they can be. Surprised we have not had a "#" slogan setup for this. Also, when racism is demonstrated the other direction, at home and abroad (towards typical white English folk) it appears to be treated as "fair game" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Yes, you said there was a 'likelihood he would empathise on a personal level' but won't explain why. People were speculating he was doing it to apologise on behalf of the club. I'm suggesting (based on known behavioural psychology) that he was more likely doing it because he felt a personal connection to the issue, as that is usually the driver of people to take action (something I study as part of my day job). I could be wrong, he could have felt a sense of apology. But he made a lot of effort making the sign, and apology is a pretty soft reason to want to do something. Unless we asked him, we wouldn't know though, You seem to be expecting more than that Turks? I'm not sure what it could be as I'm not a mind reader. Could you explain what you think I meant? Then I can respond. Otherwise we could be going back and forth on this all day, and I really wouldn't want to miss the match this afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 (edited) Totally agree. Calling people dirty northern bastards. We are all guilty of it There is also an element of people needing to demonstrate how disgusted they can be. Surprised we have not had a "#" slogan setup for this. Also, when racism is demonstrated the other direction, at home and abroad (towards typical white English folk) it appears to be treated as "fair game" One of the best anti racism football related campaigns ever was the one in the 90s with Cantona, Sol Campbell (I think) and about what do you see. Do you see a French man, black man or a footballer? The over riding message was to see a person, not a nation or colour. Which is absolutely spot on, how it should be and to be fair how it usual is until something bad happens. then its all about the colour, race or nation. The hysterical reaction, the demands for jail terms. That's all fine as long as the same applies to homosexuals, Catholics, etc etc. If the world wants us to see through skin colours then we should see people and only people on every occasion, not when it suits. Edited 22 February, 2015 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 People were speculating he was doing it to apologise on behalf of the club. I'm suggesting (based on known behavioural psychology) that he was more likely doing it because he felt a personal connection to the issue, as that is usually the driver of people to take action (something I study as part of my day job). I could be wrong, he could have felt a sense of apology. But he made a lot of effort making the sign, and apology is a pretty soft reason to want to do something. Unless we asked him, we wouldn't know though, You seem to be expecting more than that Turks? I'm not sure what it could be as I'm not a mind reader. Could you explain what you think I meant? Then I can respond. Otherwise we could be going back and forth on this all day, and I really wouldn't want to miss the match this afternoon. But you haven't explained why he would feel a personal connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 He should not need to apologise for people he does not know for something that happened in another country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 But you haven't explained why he would feel a personal connection. I've said I don't know him to be able to answer that. You've not explained what you think I have meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I've said I don't know him to be able to answer that. You've not explained what you think I have meant? I couldn't possibly know, I'm not a mind reader, which is why I've asked you several times why you seem to be pretty insistent he'd have a personal connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I couldn't possibly know, I'm not a mind reader, which is why I've asked you several times why you seem to be pretty insistent he'd have a personal connection. I'm not instistent. Your the one persistently perushing me on this, repeating the same question to a point of weirdness. I've said, quite consistently, most people are motivated to do something because of personal connection/empathy. I've responded with this because it's something I look at a lot in my day job. I have a lot of evidence to back this up. Just because your mind has lept to the next conclusion, whatever that might be, doesn't mean mine has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I'm not instistent. Your the one persistently perushing me on this, repeating the same question to a point of weirdness. I've said, quite consistently, most people are motivated to do something because of personal connection/empathy. I've responded with this because it's something I look at a lot in my day job. I have a lot of evidence to back this up. Just because your mind has lept to the next conclusion, whatever that might be, doesn't mean mine has. 'Most people' is not everybody, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Why could it have been him? was he trying to get on a train on the Paris metro? Not the question you asked. You asked how do we know he had a personal connection. He says as much in his own words. Will leave it to you to ponder over his precise motives. Can't fault your effort; but the edge and elusiveness are no longer there. Will go read a Stephen Lawrence or Mandela thread to remind myself of the glory days, when you were in your pomp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I'm not instistent. Your the one persistently perushing me on this, repeating the same question to a point of weirdness. I've said, quite consistently, most people are motivated to do something because of personal connection/empathy. I've responded with this because it's something I look at a lot in my day job. I have a lot of evidence to back this up. Just because your mind has lept to the next conclusion, whatever that might be, doesn't mean mine has. I haven't made any conclusions, you've said on several occasions about his personal connection, indeed you even state you have evidence to back this up, but you stop short of saying what it might be. Could it have been him because he has regular sojourns to Paris perhaps, is he is frequent user of metro or underground systems? It's all very vague despite this wealth of evidence you purport to hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 'Most people' is not everybody, of course. Absolutely not, and also, my evidence won't be specific enough for this particular incident, which is unique in its own right. But the general trends are: Some people do things just because they're nice people and felt empathy without personal connection. Those people are particularly amazing. Other people do things because it makes them look good amongst their friends. But a really big motivator is personal connection, because the reality is, many of us are too lazy to get off our backsides to organise something like this. You'd have to feel really angry about it to bother. The reason I responded in the first place was because I'm not sure feeling the need to apologise was very likely. But as I've said repeatedly, unless we asked him, we won't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 (edited) I haven't made any conclusions, you've said on several occasions about his personal connection, indeed you even state you have evidence to back this up, but you stop short of saying what it might be. Could it have been him because he has regular sojourns to Paris perhaps, is he is frequent user of metro or underground systems? It's all very vague despite this wealth of evidence you purport to hold. What are you on about Turkish? See my answer to Whitey below if you want to understand more about general reasons to take action. If you're interested in the topic, I can give more info when I have time. Beyond that, that's where my knowledge ends. Edited 22 February, 2015 by Coxford_lou The wave emoticon looks have like he's doing a w*nker sign! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2961465/Mother-targeted-threatening-notes-racist-graffiti-moving-new-flat-block-told-black-sisters-brothers.html This is much, much worse. Front page of every newspaper? Of course not. It is all over the Mail though, so what is your point? Does make racism in football any less palatable? Racisim is wrong. Full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I think there's a fair amount of subconscious big match anxiety going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 They will never stamp out racism until they stop making such an issue of it. Every discriminatory offence should be treated equally. Agree that discriminatory offences should be treated equally and they often are. I have seen many article about gays and lesbians being treated badly. This is a current news story therefore were are talking about it now. If they stop making an issue of it it will never go away. By highlighting bad behaviour and making the point that it is not socially acceptable the light will continue to shine on the perpetrators and eventually it will be something that that puts these people to shame rather than makes them seem like martyrs to the nationalistic cause. In my lifetime drink driving has gone from being socially acceptable to socially unacceptable. People still do it but they know it is wrong and I have seen people called on it on many occasions whereas in the past it would have gone unnoticed. I don't think discrimination will ever go away but as long as racism and all of the other forms of discrimination are highlighted eventually the moronic few who feel it is ok to behave this way will become even fewer and will be shamed for their Neanderthal views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 I think there's a fair amount of subconscious big match anxiety going on. We need to focus on the game and stop bickering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 One of the best anti racism football related campaigns ever was the one in the 90s with Cantona, Sol Campbell (I think) and about what do you see. Do you see a French man, black man or a footballer? The over riding message was to see a person, not a nation or colour. Which is absolutely spot on, how it should be and to be fair how it usual is until something bad happens. then its all about the colour, race or nation. The hysterical reaction, the demands for jail terms. That's all fine as long as the same applies to homosexuals, Catholics, etc etc. If the world wants us to see through skin colours then we should see people and only people on every occasion, not when it suits. Agree that discriminatory offences should be treated equally and they often are. I have seen many article about gays and lesbians being treated badly. This is a current news story therefore were are talking about it now. If they stop making an issue of it it will never go away. By highlighting bad behaviour and making the point that it is not socially acceptable the light will continue to shine on the perpetrators and eventually it will be something that that puts these people to shame rather than makes them seem like martyrs to the nationalistic cause. In my lifetime drink driving has gone from being socially acceptable to socially unacceptable. People still do it but they know it is wrong and I have seen people called on it on many occasions whereas in the past it would have gone unnoticed. I don't think discrimination will ever go away but as long as racism and all of the other forms of discrimination are highlighted eventually the moronic few who feel it is ok to behave this way will become even fewer and will be shamed for their Neanderthal views. When skin colour is made the issue it will always be the issue. My post above is why we can't have it both ways. If we don't see colours we only see people then this has to happen 100% of the time for it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Unfortunately skin colour is an issue because it makes it easier for someone to be identified as "not one of us." I have heard plenty of racist comments directed at Europeans once they open their mouths and it becomes apparent they are German, Italian, whatever. It all comes down to basic tribalism. When skin colour is the same tribes used to wear different colours so that you would know who to discriminate against/kill. White Europeans have a dreadful reputation when it comes to carrying out racism against other white Europeans - just think ethnic cleansing. Look at the IS situation. There is appalling "racist" stuff going on that does not revolve around skin colour. I think most rational people can see that skin colour is just one element of what is happening, but has to be dealt with all the same - especially if people are being singled out just because of their skin colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 The CPS and police deal with discrimination cases under the umbrella of "hate crime." This involves people who have been targeted for their skin type, sexual persuasion, religious beliefs, gender etc. Although they are grouped together the case are also identified by type ie - religious, racial, domestic violence, homophobic etc so that figures for each type of discriminatory crime can be broken down specifically. If a crime is committed and the reason is down to any of the above, then why wouldn't you report that and make an issue of it? The guy on the Paris Metro was clearly singled out because of the colour of his skin. Black players used to have bananas thrown at them whilst playing football. A charmless lady has just been thrown out from UKIP for explaining why she doesn't like negroes. In all of these cases the common denominator is that the victims have been singled out for being black. When people are singled out for being Muslim, Christian, female, gay, whatever then that is the reason for the alleged offence and so that is what gets reported. Yes race crime is reported on if the victim's skin is black and why not? As we have seen, The Mail published a story about a white woman who has been racially abused so it is relevant to make an issue of skin colour. The bottom line is always ignorant discrimination but it is relevant to mention what caused the issue so that that type of discrimination can be dealt with within its own type. Sadly some people will discriminate against others purely because of the colour of their skin. That needs to be dealt with as does the discrimination against other groups. If you lump it all in together it makes it harder to deal with the specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Loners who go to football on their own :lol: Keep practising. In time, you may be able to give Georgie Porgie a run for his money. Let's not expect miracles overnight, tho' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 22 February, 2015 Share Posted 22 February, 2015 Oh the irony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 According to Sky 50 year old ex-policeman seems to be one of them. He is director of a Human rights business!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxford_lou Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Keep practising. In time, you may be able to give Georgie Porgie a run for his money. Let's not expect miracles overnight, tho' I would like to make stand for loners though. They get belittled like they are inferior, but actually some of the greatest genius, whether musicians, writers, artists, has come from loners, or introverts. Anyone feeling the need to meet up with random people from an Internet forum, is clearly not a loner. And anyone with the nerve to do so is not an introvert. Anyone feeling the need to mock anyone for doing so, is a loser! Or like Sour Mash and Griffo, needy, sad, insecure, tw*ts!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 I would like to make stand for loners though. They get belittled like they are inferior, but actually some of the greatest genius, whether musicians, writers, artists, has come from loners, or introverts. Anyone feeling the need to meet up with random people from an Internet forum, is clearly not a loner. And anyone with the nerve to do so is not an introvert. Anyone feeling the need to mock anyone for doing so, is a loser! Or like Sour Mash and Griffo, needy, sad, insecure, tw*ts!! There's nowt wrong with your own company. Absolutely essential at times, and I say that as someone that is an essential extrovert. Also, people can be massively different in their own environments. Mate of mine is a huge party animal on a night out. Ended up living in a shared house with him and determined that contrary to all public appearances, bloke was a complete introvert in the house. Just liked his own company. I suspect what you've run into here is a difference in posting motive, which people all have. If I had to pin it down, SaintsWeb is the site I like best because I get to discuss issues with contemporaries, people that by and large, have a similar background to myself. Other people approach the site in different ways. For some, it's just a series of Internet randoms to troll or insult, or a chance to look good in front of the three or four people that'll validate them in the forum version of a mutual masturbation session. I said earlier that I think it weirder to NOT want to meet people you spend all day interacting with. That's still true for properly motivated people, but if your main activity on SaintsWeb is trolling, it makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 I talk to myself. It's the only way I get any sensible answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 I would like to make stand for loners though. They get belittled like they are inferior, but actually some of the greatest genius, whether musicians, writers, artists, has come from loners, or introverts. Introverts are more efficient at processing information, they get less 'data loss'. Extroverts tend to be louder and more gregarious because they need more stimulation to get the same brain response as introverts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 Introverts are more efficient at processing information, they get less 'data loss'. Extroverts tend to be louder and more gregarious because they need more stimulation to get the same brain response as introverts. That explains a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 I never get lonely – I'm always chatting to people like Portsea Lil and Matron ... to name but two of my imaginary friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 This thread has been an eye-opener for me, I can tell you. Y'see, I assumed that everyone posting on here was kinda doing the same thing as me, usually firing off a message or two when time permits. Crucially, I have been on my own when I've written the vast majority of content, or at the very least, ignoring everyone around me as I type. I'm sorry; I mistakenly thought that was the way things were done. Now, especially with all this friendless/loner malarkey doing the rounds, I'm not so sure. From the way some people have gone on, I can only surmise that every single one of their posts has been written in the company of buddies, b!tches and beer, with whoops, BJs, and high fives all around every time someone hits the "Post reply" button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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