The9 Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 Basically, we have sold £28m worth of right backs and yoshida is playing there. That is pish poor from the club. We signed a £3.5m right back who we rested, who's probably already worth more than twice that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 30 November, 2015 Share Posted 30 November, 2015 I have never, not once, seen anyone on here claim that Yoshida at right-back is good news. People have defended him as a decent squad player and an all-around good guy, people have defended him as a reasonable third-choice defender for a club of our stature to have at our disposal, but absolutely no-one has claimed that Yoshida at right-back is completely fine and hunky-dory. You don't pay enough attention. I saw a LOT of people saying it was fine when he scored against Villa, and even earlier in the season when he was keeping up his one error a game record with remarkable consistency. As for "pleased to be proven right", I prefer to think of it as just "proven right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 You don't pay enough attention. I saw a LOT of people saying it was fine when he scored against Villa, and even earlier in the season when he was keeping up his one error a game record with remarkable consistency. They were defending him at right-back were they? They were saying words to the effect of 'we-don't-need-a-new-right-back-as-we-have-a-competent-right-back-in-Yoshida were they? If you can find me an example of anyone saying anything of the sort I'd be amazed. As for "pleased to be proven right", I prefer to think of it as just "proven right". You shared the opinion of 100% of the forum. Yoshida is a reasonable third-choice centre-back for a club of our level. He is an awful right-back and I've yet to see anyone seriously make the case for either of the two points above. If anyone can find a centre-back for a club of our size or below who with a fully-fit first team, is a distinctly reserve option but is markedly better than Yoshida, then I'd be amazed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScepticalStan Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Martina was clearly Erwin's influence I'm pretty sure Ronald could have stopped that transfer if he wanted. Fair point. I suppose Koeman can't completely escape responsibility for that one. I must admit I do remember Twente fans on the Facebook pages and whatnot reacting to the signing with utter bemusement (especially after we had just finished 7th and for two seasons had been equipped with arguably the best full-back pairing in the entire league). Still, not Yoshida's fault though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 You don't pay enough attention. I saw a LOT of people saying it was fine when he scored against Villa, and even earlier in the season when he was keeping up his one error a game record with remarkable consistency. As for "pleased to be proven right", I prefer to think of it as just "proven right". You can dine out on that one.. Didn't rate Yoshida as a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 They were defending him at right-back were they? They were saying words to the effect of 'we-don't-need-a-new-right-back-as-we-have-a-competent-right-back-in-Yoshida were they? If you can find me an example of anyone saying anything of the sort I'd be amazed. You shared the opinion of 100% of the forum. Yoshida is a reasonable third-choice centre-back for a club of our level. He is an awful right-back and I've yet to see anyone seriously make the case for either of the two points above. If anyone can find a centre-back for a club of our size or below who with a fully-fit first team, is a distinctly reserve option but is markedly better than Yoshida, then I'd be amazed. Yes they were defending him at right back, which is where he played and scored against Villa. Strange that, because for someone who "shared the opinion of 100% of the forum" I got LOADS of sh111t from people arguing that he was absolutely fine and definitely didn't cost us goals or make mistakes in almost every match. As for your examples, there are plenty, I'll let other people find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 You don't pay enough attention. I saw a LOT of people saying it was fine when he scored against Villa, and even earlier in the season when he was keeping up his one error a game record with remarkable consistency. As for "pleased to be proven right", I prefer to think of it as just "proven right". You are right. Yoshida has had a lot of support on here. Certainly up until his last c*ck up, although there were still some saying that he was a decent CH. Sadly Yoshi clearly does not learn from his mistakes. He is fine as a squad player but really shouldn't be starting in a Premiership team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 You are right. Yoshida has had a lot of support on here. Certainly up until his last c*ck up, although there were still some saying that he was a decent CH. Sadly Yoshi clearly does not learn from his mistakes. He is fine as a squad player but really shouldn't be starting in a Premiership team. Who's said he's a decent RB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Who's said he's a decent RB? You haven't seen the support for him then when he has c*cked up at RB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Ron needs to be asked why Cedric was dropped in the next press conference! The fact that he wasn't even named on the bench would perhaps indicate that he wasn't fully fit. His eye injury was aggravated in the Stoke game, so perhaps Ron and the medical team feel he needs time to let that heal properly. The only other explanation would be perhaps a disciplinary issue. But I fail to see why Ron would drop him from the squad completely and put Martina on the subs bench instead, based purely on ability and performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 The fact that he wasn't even named on the bench would perhaps indicate that he wasn't fully fit. His eye injury was aggravated in the Stoke game, so perhaps Ron and the medical team feel he needs time to let that heal properly. The only other explanation would be perhaps a disciplinary issue. But I fail to see why Ron would drop him from the squad completely and put Martina on the subs bench instead, based purely on ability and performance. didnt Ron already say that cedirc not being in the squad was nothing to do with fitness but more so that we have a lot of games and Martina needed a turn on the bench? obviously, there could be plenty of reasons for it that we will never know about. but saying he was not fully fit would have been an easy get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Given that he rested Clasie too I tend to think that it was a tactical move and that he is saving Cedric for tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Playing at the back is the easiest position in football, You have the whole game in front of you and any decent defender should be able to play anywhere across the back four if needed. It is all about getting your positioning right and your awareness of where your team mates are as well as the players you are defending against. This is what lets Yoshida down. He gets away with it more when he plays at CH because he has players either side of him but he still manages to get himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. As for dithering on the ball the other day, again, his brain doesn't seem to engage quickly enough at times. As Whitey said, you rarely if ever see a Premiership footballer lose the ball like that. It was a schoolboy error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 You haven't seen the support for him then when he has c*cked up at RB? Specifically as a RB? Not really. Nor did I see the massive outpouring of support and supposed schadenfreude after the villa game either, though I do recall many voted him MoTM while also expressing surprise that he had a good game because he's generally **** there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Given that he rested Clasie too I tend to think that it was a tactical move and that he is saving Cedric for tomorrow. But Clasie was at least on the bench against City. Cedric wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Playing at the back is the easiest position in football, You have the whole game in front of you and any decent defender should be able to play anywhere across the back four if needed. It is all about getting your positioning right and your awareness of where your team mates are as well as the players you are defending against. This is what lets Yoshida down. He gets away with it more when he plays at CH because he has players either side of him but he still manages to get himself in the wrong place at the wrong time. As for dithering on the ball the other day, again, his brain doesn't seem to engage quickly enough at times. As Whitey said, you rarely if ever see a Premiership footballer lose the ball like that. It was a schoolboy error. Well, I don't really agree with you about playing anywhere across the back but that's mainly because players aren't as two-footed as they should be (and because I'm deaf in one ear which made playing down the left an absolute pain in the backside in terms of organisation, but I can imagine that's not really a thing that affects 99% of players). However, I agree regarding the general awareness and positioning stuff. Still, no point going over his flaws again here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 But Clasie was at least on the bench against City. Cedric wasn't. Clasie could cover multiple positions in midfield if needed due to injury, full backs tend not to be on the bench as a one for one swap (Martina arguably covers CB too). We still didn't use Clasie despite there being an obvious opportunity to put him on, which is in line with Koeman writing the game off with selection and when 2 down so quickly. I still think it's more likely Cedric's eye keeps busting because we keep putting him in positions to re-open the wound, so we took the opportunity to let it heal and rest him for Wednesday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Specifically as a RB? Not really. Nor did I see the massive outpouring of support and supposed schadenfreude after the villa game either, though I do recall many voted him MoTM while also expressing surprise that he had a good game because he's generally **** there. he did get MoM on here if I remember rightly (for the villa game) he is terrible at RB. absolutely terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 The fact that he wasn't even named on the bench would perhaps indicate that he wasn't fully fit. His eye injury was aggravated in the Stoke game, so perhaps Ron and the medical team feel he needs time to let that heal properly. The only other explanation would be perhaps a disciplinary issue. But I fail to see why Ron would drop him from the squad completely and put Martina on the subs bench instead, based purely on ability and performance. This. Almost exactly what I posted. He is fit, but his eye injury needs time to heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naiser Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Everything is leading up to JWP finding his natural position...RB A right footer Leighton Baines? [emoji16] Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 he did get MoM on here if I remember rightly (for the villa game) he is terrible at RB. absolutely terrible As I pointed out in my post, though that's not inconsistent with generally not rating him as a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 he did get MoM on here if I remember rightly (for the villa game) he is terrible at RB. absolutely terrible Were the others that bad? (I must admit that I couldn't actually go to this one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Well, I don't really agree with you about playing anywhere across the back but that's mainly because players aren't as two-footed as they should be (and because I'm deaf in one ear which made playing down the left an absolute pain in the backside in terms of organisation, but I can imagine that's not really a thing that affects 99% of players). However, I agree regarding the general awareness and positioning stuff. Still, no point going over his flaws again here. You don't have to be two footed to play on the left if you are right footed though. Premiership players are at the top of their profession and players of that calibre should be able to adapt and do a job for the team. I played for several years at left back despite being right footed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Were the others that bad? (I must admit that I couldn't actually go to this one) Just a side-effect of the usual lowest common denominator voting, any defender who scores must be great, even if they're not, and people only remember key high-profile incidents not all of the little things which have a greater impact overall. Villa offered even less of an attacking threat than Bournemouth, and Agbonlahor who was mostly on that side looked like he'd eaten a house, so there wasn't too much to do defensively, and it was a good shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 You don't have to be two footed to play on the left if you are right footed though. Premiership players are at the top of their profession and players of that calibre should be able to adapt and do a job for the team. I played for several years at left back despite being right footed. Yes, but you lose half your options if you can't comfortably use both feet, especially at full back where anything forward has to go one side or the other of the player who is usually in front of you and closing you down, because the other options are "off the pitch" or "inside to CB/keeper". With only one strong foot that's exactly the sort of prevaricating which puts you in the position Yoshida was in on Saturday for the first goal (not that his right-footedness was the issue there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 didnt Ron already say that cedirc not being in the squad was nothing to do with fitness but more so that we have a lot of games and Martina needed a turn on the bench? obviously, there could be plenty of reasons for it that we will never know about. but saying he was not fully fit would have been an easy get out. Blackmore spoke to Ron about it Saturday who said there's a lot of competition in that position, make of that what you will!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Blackmore spoke to Ron about it Saturday who said there's a lot of competition in that position, make of that what you will!? Cedric, Yoshida, Martina, McCarthy (when not on loan and playing CB for Wycombe). Didn't we play Fonte there at one point earlier in the season too? How many right back options do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Cedric, Yoshida, Martina, McCarthy (when not on loan and playing CB for Wycombe). Didn't we play Fonte there at one point earlier in the season too? How many right back options do you need? two good ones. is that ok with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st alex Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 He is poor at centre back also I've been saying this since the first few games I saw him play. Absolutely terrible I think he's alright at centre back and he's improved since he's been here so whatever you thought the first game you saw him play is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 two good ones. is that ok with you? One good one and a mostly ok one to play against only bottom half sides should be ok? That could be either of the other two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 I think he's alright at centre back and he's improved since he's been here so whatever you thought the first game you saw him play is irrelevant. I think he's as bad at CB as at RB and he's not improved enough, so his bad starting point (he somehow managed to be bad at left back too before playing CB) is entirely relevant. Because if he'd started like VVD he'd be allowed to make a couple of errors (as Van Dijk already has) and still be good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 One good one and a mostly ok one to play against only bottom half sides should be ok? That could be either of the other two. it could be, but it isnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Cedric, Yoshida, Martina, McCarthy (when not on loan and playing CB for Wycombe). Didn't we play Fonte there at one point earlier in the season too? How many right back options do you need? Its not about options its about having the quality to compete with each other , Cedric is by far our best right back everyman and his dog can see that and when fit should start every game imo ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 Its not about options its about having the quality to compete with each other , Cedric is by far our best right back everyman and his dog can see that and when fit should start every game imo ! And what about when he's got a recurring head injury which needs to heal but the rest of him is fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 it could be, but it isnt Even I've never claimed Yoshida isn't good enough to fill a gap against the likes of Villa or Bournemouth. Whether that's good enough is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 And what about when he's got a recurring head injury which needs to heal but the rest of him is fine? Has Ron said it was to do with injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 And what about when he's got a recurring head injury which needs to heal but the rest of him is fine? our manager has been very open and honest since day 1 with injuries to players. now, all of a sudden. When he says he was not injured we are not to believe him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 our manager has been very open and honest since day 1 with injuries to players. now, all of a sudden. When he says he was not injured we are not to believe him... Like I said earlier I was chatting to mr Blackmore about it on twitter last night even he said it was "a head scratcher" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 our manager has been very open and honest since day 1 with injuries to players. now, all of a sudden. When he says he was not injured we are not to believe him... He said Rodriguez had a problem with his feet, which wasn't true, but was understandable due to his lack of understanding of the nuances of English. What makes you think this is any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 He said Rodriguez had a problem with his feet, which wasn't true, but was understandable due to his lack of understanding of the nuances of English. What makes you think this is any different? ok. Ron must have got it wrong when he said that cedic was NOT injured. Guess he really meant that he was injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 ok. Ron must have got it wrong when he said that cedic was NOT injured. Guess he really meant that he was injured I'm sorry that a two braincell concept is too difficult for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 I'm sorry that a two braincell concept is too difficult for you. or. Ron was pretty open about it and there was nothing wrong with him what you are doing is coming up to your own conclusion to fit the idea that everything the club/manager do is the correct decision (the way you see it) I will take Ron at face value, like we (or i) do with every other injury snippet he gives out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 or. Ron was pretty open about it and there was nothing wrong with him what you are doing is coming up to your own conclusion to fit the idea that everything the club/manager do is the correct decision (the way you see it) I will take Ron at face value, like we (or i) do with every other injury snippet he gives out So what are they doing about Rodriguez's other foot then? Also interesting to think I have an "everything done is correct" agenda when Yoshida was starting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 So what are they doing about Rodriguez's other foot then? Also interesting to think I have an "everything done is correct" agenda when Yoshida was starting... you really are filling the big fat MLG void in this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st alex Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 I think he's as bad at CB as at RB and he's not improved enough, so his bad starting point (he somehow managed to be bad at left back too before playing CB) is entirely relevant. Because if he'd started like VVD he'd be allowed to make a couple of errors (as Van Dijk already has) and still be good enough. There's no credibility in writing a player off after their first game. The poster I replied to seemed to be saying that they could successfully identify a ****e player after just their first match, which is a pretty pointless thing to boast. Loads of our players have improved huge amounts since their debuts. I don't think Yoshida's good enough to play right back, but I think he's perfectly adequate as cover in centre back. To say that he's awful after he's first game is ludicrous. The same could have been said of Mane, Pelle, Bertrand or J-Rod any number of players who were underwhelming. Martina hasn't looked good enough for me either, no idea why we signed him. I think we could do with another right back, Trippier would have been ideal for the price and his age. If we could shift Martina on and get a decent young right back like an England U21 player that would be of greater benefit to the squad in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 you really are filling the big fat MLG void in this forum Which is probably just as well, in view of the amount of shyte that you come out with on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 you really are filling the big fat MLG void in this forum I was here long before him, and I love the way you change the subject when you know you don't have a response to the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 you really are filling the big fat MLG void in this forum What happened to MLG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 1 December, 2015 Share Posted 1 December, 2015 There's no credibility in writing a player off after their first game. The poster I replied to seemed to be saying that they could successfully identify a ****e player after just their first match, which is a pretty pointless thing to boast. Loads of our players have improved huge amounts since their debuts. I don't think Yoshida's good enough to play right back, but I think he's perfectly adequate as cover in centre back. To say that he's awful after he's first game is ludicrous. The same could have been said of Mane, Pelle, Bertrand or J-Rod any number of players who were underwhelming. Martina hasn't looked good enough for me either, no idea why we signed him. I think we could do with another right back, Trippier would have been ideal for the price and his age. If we could shift Martina on and get a decent young right back like an England U21 player that would be of greater benefit to the squad in my opinion. It might be a pointless thing to boast, but it was pretty easy with Yoshida who made his first appearance in a 6-1 defeat (coming on after 28 minutes). FWIW none of the other 4 were actively bad on their debuts, though two of them had dodgy spells sooner or later in their first 6 months - as you'd expect. Yoshida has improved but not enough and still makes a lot of the same mistakes he made on that debut - on which he inexplicably hurtled past an Arsenal winger when the ball was out wide and opened up the whole side for attack. Martina was signed as short-term cover in July as he had some Europa experience and on Erwin's recommendation, I expect he's dirt cheap relatively speaking and unlike most of our signings I don't think he's ever been part of a bigger plan. He was bloody awful on his pre-season debut, like "never played professional football before" bad - but by the Arnhem game he knew the system and looked competent. He's not had the chance to prove his abilities one way or another since, unlike Yoshida. I'd rather we stuck with Cedric and stopped worrying about him being exposed by Mane when Mane's rarely the one in front of the RB anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 2 December, 2015 Share Posted 2 December, 2015 I was here long before him, and I love the way you change the subject when you know you don't have a response to the point. there is nothing to respond to. Koeman stated that Cedric was not injured. You and one or two others have decided that he was in fact injured. bit like Koeman saying he wants to spend more more money. did he really men he wants to spend less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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