LGBT+ Discussion

[swannymere]

I'm not sure that there's a concensus that it it socailly unacceptable or that its clear that it is wrong. I'm sure what i assume are men discussing it on a forum helps either way?

[hypochondriac]

13 minutes ago, swannymere said:

I'm not sure that there's a concensus that it it socailly unacceptable or that its clear that it is wrong. I'm sure what i assume are men discussing it on a forum helps either way?

I don't see why it's not possible for us to discuss it. As I said, many men have close female relatives or daughters so it's relevant to them as well. It's also possible to represent the views of those women in the discussion which I think both sides have done. 

I think the recent high court rulings have made it clear what the rules are regarding single sex spaces so even though I think there very much is a majority opinion on the matter, the courts have told us what should be happening anyway.

Edited 6 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Sir Ralph]

59 minutes ago, swannymere said:

I'm not sure that there's a concensus that it it socailly unacceptable or that its clear that it is wrong. I'm sure what i assume are men discussing it on a forum helps either way?

Well I’m a trans women so my view does hold weight and only biological men should use women’s toilets 😆

[pingpong]

If you follow the logic of all this, without genital checks, toilets will be policed by how masculine or feminine you are.  Butch women will have to use the gents, and effeminate men will have to use the ladies. We will all end up mixed together anyway.

The ehrc solution to this acknowledged issue is that it will be asymmetrical, meaning that butch women (or trans men) will simply not be allowed to use single sex spaces, and will only be able to use specially provided gender neutral facilities, which most places won't provide, so they'll just have to cope.  

Trans women who pass will still use the ladies, but would be eligible to use the gents too, which I guess is nice for them.

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, pingpong said:

If you follow the logic of all this, without genital checks, toilets will be policed by how masculine or feminine you are.  Butch women will have to use the gents, and effeminate men will have to use the ladies. We will all end up mixed together anyway.

The ehrc solution to this acknowledged issue is that it will be asymmetrical, meaning that butch women (or trans men) will simply not be allowed to use single sex spaces, and will only be able to use specially provided gender neutral facilities, which most places won't provide, so they'll just have to cope.  

Trans women who pass will still use the ladies, but would be eligible to use the gents too, which I guess is nice for them.

I don't know which 'logic' you're following but this all seems like a deliberate attempt to confuse what is a fairly straight forward system, which has worked perfectly well around the world for centuries and doesn't need changing. If you have male reproductive organs, used the mens changing/toilet facilities, if you have female organs, use the ladies.

There's no other system that can or will work. You can't make laws based on subjective ideas of how people feel or how 'butch' they look.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

I don't know which 'logic' you're following but this all seems like a deliberate attempt to confuse what is a fairly straight forward system, which has worked perfectly well around the world for centuries and doesn't need changing. If you have male reproductive organs, used the mens changing/toilet facilities, if you have female organs, use the ladies.

There's no other system that can or will work. You can't make laws based on subjective ideas of how people feel or how 'butch' they look.

Exactly. Some perverted man may still try to break the rules and encroach on women's spaces but I am confident that less will do so when the law is explicit that they are not welcome and should not be entering women's spaces.

[pingpong]

3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I don't know which 'logic' you're following but this all seems like a deliberate attempt to confuse what is a fairly straight forward system, which has worked perfectly well around the world for centuries and doesn't need changing. If you have male reproductive organs, used the mens changing/toilet facilities, if you have female organs, use the ladies.

There's no other system that can or will work. You can't make laws based on subjective ideas of how people feel or how 'butch' they look.

We're agreeing, the old system we've had for decades is fine, and supreme court and ehrc shouldn't be making laws and guidance based on  appearance.

But that's where we are at the moment, unfortunately.