Crouch: Why I proposed changes

[Mr X]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4078741.Crouch__Why_I_proposed_changes/

 

 

Have to say I agree with the majority of this, I believe he really is prepared to put his money where his mouth is.

[St Marco]

In a time when we need every penny why is he considering eating his money. The bloke is a buffoon.

 

He is more succesful at business then Lowe and Wilde put together.

Crouch is a fan of the club and has in the past already put his hand in his pockets. Lowe and Wilde have never done that in the 12 years combined they have had at this club.

Crouch could buy out either of thems shares but what would the point in that be? That would not benefit the club just the two greedy bastards who are holding out for their last pay cheque. If he puts £2million into the club and gets a good manager (i heard he had spoke to Boothroyd) and maybe a few decent buys,loans then our fortunes on the pitch could change. If we then survived next season we can rebuild again. But the problem is Lowe and Wilde are sticking to their guns, they don't want to abandon this dutch system they have chosen. And the fact they have rejected the proposal of money makes me question if Barclays will allow them to remain in control. Crouch said he would pay off the overdraft, they would obviously love that. Lowe and Wilde will have to explain why they rejected it to them.

 

Crouch is anything but stupid. If i were in his financial position i would do the same thing. I would rather put my money into the club knowing it would help the club rather then help the board.

[RobM]

And the fact they have rejected the proposal of money makes me question if Barclays will allow them to remain in control. Crouch said he would pay off the overdraft, they would obviously love that. Lowe and Wilde will have to explain why they rejected it to them.

 

This is the bit that gets me. As chairmen, they have a legal duty to act in the best interests of the company and it's shareholders. Turning down the opportunity to be bailed out of debt seems to be the polar opposite of this, especially at a time of serious economic troubles and with administration lurking in the shadows.

 

And as far as I can tell, the reason to turn this chance down is purely down to personal opinions of people and wanting to keep their position at the company?

[RinNY]

He is more succesful at business then Lowe and Wilde put together.

Crouch is a fan of the club and has in the past already put his hand in his pockets. Lowe and Wilde have never done that in the 12 years combined they have had at this club.

Crouch could buy out either of thems shares but what would the point in that be? That would not benefit the club just the two greedy bastards who are holding out for their last pay cheque. If he puts £2million into the club and gets a good manager (i heard he had spoke to Boothroyd) and maybe a few decent buys,loans then our fortunes on the pitch could change. If we then survived next season we can rebuild again. But the problem is Lowe and Wilde are sticking to their guns, they don't want to abandon this dutch system they have chosen. And the fact they have rejected the proposal of money makes me question if Barclays will allow them to remain in control. Crouch said he would pay off the overdraft, they would obviously love that. Lowe and Wilde will have to explain why they rejected it to them.

 

Crouch is anything but stupid. If i were in his financial position i would do the same thing. I would rather put my money into the club knowing it would help the club rather then help the board.

 

Blah, blah, blah. You obviously haven't read the article very carefully, and as too many do, talk out of mere prejudice. Crouch did not say he would wipe out the overdraft: he proposed that all three leading shareholders do so together. If Lowe and Wilde lack the liquid capital to do so, then Crouch's proposal comes to no more than: hey, I'm richer than you, step aside for me. That isn't helpful, unless Crouch is actually rich enough to carry the club's debt on his own, as Lowe and wilde pointed out, and Crouch stated explicitly that he is NOT rich enough to do that. As to this "last pay cheque" business: Wilde has invested a couple of millon into SFC, and seen that investment dwindle to about a third or so of what he put in, so to suggest that all he wants is to wring money out of the club is the height of nonsense! Do you actually have any evidence about what he (or Lowe for that matter) are getting paid? I see no evidence of it. I've seen no evidence that Wilde gets paid anything at all!

 

The trouble with Crouch, is that he seems more interested in grandstanding than anything else. If he really is able to solve Saints' financial problems, it's puzzling that he did not do so before now, and still isn't doing so. He knows what it requires: he has to find, either himself or with allies, 6 million quid to pay off the overdraft. I suggest he should either put up or shut up. As it is, Wilde stands to lose more than any one other shareholder if Saints go into administration, and Lowe's bank balance and business reputation would also take a huge hit. I suggest they are doing what they can to keep the club afloat, out of self-interest if for no other motivation. God knows they get little else out of it but abuse.

 

If only folks could engage in constructive criticism rather than just constantly venting hate ansd spite! Goodness knows this regime is not above some good constructive criticism, but I haven't seen any on this forum!

[corky morris]

If only folks could engage in constructive criticism rather than just constantly venting hate ansd spite! Goodness knows this regime is not above some good constructive criticism, but I haven't seen any on this forum!

 

 

Funny that, I have seen a lot of very constructive criticsm - Did you not read it all?

[JustMike]

Blah, blah, blah. You obviously haven't read the article very carefully, and as too many do, talk out of mere prejudice. Crouch did not say he would wipe out the overdraft: he proposed that all three leading shareholders do so together. If Lowe and Wilde lack the liquid capital to do so, then Crouch's proposal comes to no more than: hey, I'm richer than you, step aside for me. That isn't helpful, unless Crouch is actually rich enough to carry the club's debt on his own, as Lowe and wilde pointed out, and Crouch stated explicitly that he is NOT rich enough to do that. As to this "last pay cheque" business: Wilde has invested a couple of millon into SFC, and seen that investment dwindle to about a third or so of what he put in, so to suggest that all he wants is to wring money out of the club is the height of nonsense! Do you actually have any evidence about what he (or Lowe for that matter) are getting paid? I see no evidence of it. I've seen no evidence that Wilde gets paid anything at all!

 

The trouble with Crouch, is that he seems more interested in grandstanding than anything else. If he really is able to solve Saints' financial problems, it's puzzling that he did not do so before now, and still isn't doing so. He knows what it requires: he has to find, either himself or with allies, 6 million quid to pay off the overdraft. I suggest he should either put up or shut up. As it is, Wilde stands to lose more than any one other shareholder if Saints go into administration, and Lowe's bank balance and business reputation would also take a huge hit. I suggest they are doing what they can to keep the club afloat, out of self-interest if for no other motivation. God knows they get little else out of it but abuse.

 

If only folks could engage in constructive criticism rather than just constantly venting hate ansd spite! Goodness knows this regime is not above some good constructive criticism, but I haven't seen any on this forum!

 

so by the same token, why doesnt lowe and wilde do exactly the same?

 

Lowe and Wilde are ONLY here to save their own skin (investment) Crouch is a fan and has the best interest of the club in mind.

[stevegrant]

so by the same token, why doesnt lowe and wilde do exactly the same?

 

Lowe and Wilde are ONLY here to save their own skin (investment) Crouch is a fan and has the best interest of the club in mind.

How exactly do you suppose Lowe and Wilde (and Crouch, for that matter) save their own investments/skin/however you want to phrase it without the club improving?

 

I'd be interested to hear any theories as to how they save themselves WITHOUT saving the club, and I'm sure the Financial Services Authority would also like to know.

[aintforever]

Blah, blah, blah. You obviously haven't read the article very carefully, and as too many do, talk out of mere prejudice. Crouch did not say he would wipe out the overdraft: he proposed that all three leading shareholders do so together. If Lowe and Wilde lack the liquid capital to do so, then Crouch's proposal comes to no more than: hey, I'm richer than you, step aside for me. That isn't helpful, unless Crouch is actually rich enough to carry the club's debt on his own, as Lowe and wilde pointed out, and Crouch stated explicitly that he is NOT rich enough to do that. As to this "last pay cheque" business: Wilde has invested a couple of millon into SFC, and seen that investment dwindle to about a third or so of what he put in, so to suggest that all he wants is to wring money out of the club is the height of nonsense! Do you actually have any evidence about what he (or Lowe for that matter) are getting paid? I see no evidence of it. I've seen no evidence that Wilde gets paid anything at all!

 

The trouble with Crouch, is that he seems more interested in grandstanding than anything else. If he really is able to solve Saints' financial problems, it's puzzling that he did not do so before now, and still isn't doing so. He knows what it requires: he has to find, either himself or with allies, 6 million quid to pay off the overdraft. I suggest he should either put up or shut up. As it is, Wilde stands to lose more than any one other shareholder if Saints go into administration, and Lowe's bank balance and business reputation would also take a huge hit. I suggest they are doing what they can to keep the club afloat, out of self-interest if for no other motivation. God knows they get little else out of it but abuse.

 

If only folks could engage in constructive criticism rather than just constantly venting hate ansd spite! Goodness knows this regime is not above some good constructive criticism, but I haven't seen any on this forum!

 

Wilde and Lowe can afford it, they just choose not to.

[JustMike]

How exactly do you suppose Lowe and Wilde (and Crouch, for that matter) save their own investments/skin/however you want to phrase it without the club improving?

 

I'd be interested to hear any theories as to how they save themselves WITHOUT saving the club, and I'm sure the Financial Services Authority would also like to know.

 

ok, ok rephrased..Lowe and Wilde only care about their own investment / skin..

[St Marco]

Blah, blah, blah. You obviously haven't read the article very carefully, and as too many do, talk out of mere prejudice. Crouch did not say he would wipe out the overdraft: he proposed that all three leading shareholders do so together. If Lowe and Wilde lack the liquid capital to do so, then Crouch's proposal comes to no more than: hey, I'm richer than you, step aside for me. That isn't helpful, unless Crouch is actually rich enough to carry the club's debt on his own, as Lowe and wilde pointed out, and Crouch stated explicitly that he is NOT rich enough to do that. As to this "last pay cheque" business: Wilde has invested a couple of millon into SFC, and seen that investment dwindle to about a third or so of what he put in, so to suggest that all he wants is to wring money out of the club is the height of nonsense! Do you actually have any evidence about what he (or Lowe for that matter) are getting paid? I see no evidence of it. I've seen no evidence that Wilde gets paid anything at all!

 

The trouble with Crouch, is that he seems more interested in grandstanding than anything else. If he really is able to solve Saints' financial problems, it's puzzling that he did not do so before now, and still isn't doing so. He knows what it requires: he has to find, either himself or with allies, 6 million quid to pay off the overdraft. I suggest he should either put up or shut up. As it is, Wilde stands to lose more than any one other shareholder if Saints go into administration, and Lowe's bank balance and business reputation would also take a huge hit. I suggest they are doing what they can to keep the club afloat, out of self-interest if for no other motivation. God knows they get little else out of it but abuse.

 

If only folks could engage in constructive criticism rather than just constantly venting hate ansd spite! Goodness knows this regime is not above some good constructive criticism, but I haven't seen any on this forum!

 

I guess you go back and re-read it then because he says "I thought mine was a good proposal – it would have enabled us to get rid of our overdraft and give ourselves a fighting chance of bringing in some experienced players and an experienced English manager".

He says he will put £2m of his own money into the club. He would of been able to get the books down and get a manager in. If you continue to read it he also says

"The time was right to act.

 

“The three of us are the top three shareholders – we should all be putting our money in"

 

So as far as i can see we have one guy willing to put money into the club. He wants to put money into the club but can't. Why can't he?

 

"I put my proposals to them but they obviously didn’t accept them because they went and put Mark Wotte in charge," said Crouch.

 

“Rupert Lowe and Michael Wilde have made their decision, now they have to live with it.

 

“Now we have to get behind the new manager, we have to give him a chance"

 

So why did they reject his money offer then? Because i think everyone knows we need money right? Would not taking money help our situation?

So you can cry a river all you like but the facts are the facts, Crouch is trying to get money into the club either his own or from other people. Lowe and Wilde have said they will leave if £6m is paid off on the debt. Crouch says as one of the 3 shareholders he will pay his share £2m but the other 2 have to pay theirs too. Which they won't.

So we have a guy trying hard to help sort the club out, even meeting with Lowe and Wilde to try and go forward. But of course they were not interested. For them it is a personel thing, they have never done anything decent for this club. They are leeaches just waiting for some blood to make them fat, once they have sucked it dry they will move onto the next one.

[stevegrant]

ok, ok rephrased..Lowe and Wilde only care about their own investment / skin..

And if that's true (which, personally, I don't believe, otherwise why would they have each attended numerous games when they WEREN'T in the boardroom, in the same way that Leon Crouch is doing currently), so what? The end target is still exactly the same, i.e. an improvement in the financial situation at SFC, regardless of whether their investment is all they care about.

 

I would suggest that Crouch also cares quite a lot about his investment as well. £2m and he's not even got a guaranteed seat in the boardroom for that, and given that he's told the Echo that he doesn't have the £6m Lowe and Wilde have suggested he inject and then take their places, £2m is clearly still a lot of money to him.

[Frank's cousin]

Think the issue here is obvious - Crouch is fortunate enough to have his 2 mil ready to put in.... unfortunately, I would guess that both Wilde and Lowe do NOT have those kind of liquid assets to hand - If the injection of 6 mil was going to save the club and allow it to survive - prop up the shareprice etc, and save their sahre investment then I have no doubt Wilde and Lowe would do their bit IF they had the cash available -if only to SAVE their investment - but I seriously do not think they do.

 

The question then is, does Crouch know this, because if so, is it not really a hollow offer no matter how generous, because he wont do this without the others who he knows cant?

 

Duncan (FF) reckons this is a cheap shot at Crouch who is obviously a fan prpared to put his money where his mouth is - which is fair enough, but I disagree, I would ask that questions direct to Leon:

 

Leon, I appreciate that this is a genuine offer and a very generous one at that considering the high risk involved that could in effect wipe out this loan to the club, but do you believe both Wilde and Lowe actually have this amount in liquid assets or are they simply refusing to be as generous.... because of the risk. I know if I had exactly 2mil my net wortyh so to speak, would I risk it all on saints? No

[Window Cleaner]

And if that's true (which, personally, I don't believe, otherwise why would they have each attended numerous games when they WEREN'T in the boardroom, in the same way that Leon Crouch is doing currently), so what? The end target is still exactly the same, i.e. an improvement in the financial situation at SFC, regardless of whether their investment is all they care about.

 

I would suggest that Crouch also cares quite a lot about his investment as well. £2m and he's not even got a guaranteed seat in the boardroom for that, and given that he's told the Echo that he doesn't have the £6m Lowe and Wilde have suggested he inject and then take their places, £2m is clearly still a lot of money to him.

 

I think if he had 6 million or could get it then he'd probably be up for it.

I think his personal wealth is vastly overestimated. I mean he made a couple of million last year but probably gets hit for some tax.Never did understand Lymington Precision, he sold it to the management but he's still the CEO (or whatever).

[Scudamore]

What the hell is going on with this thread?

[JustMike]

And if that's true (which, personally, I don't believe, otherwise why would they have each attended numerous games when they WEREN'T in the boardroom, in the same way that Leon Crouch is doing currently), so what? The end target is still exactly the same, i.e. an improvement in the financial situation at SFC, regardless of whether their investment is all they care about.

 

I would suggest that Crouch also cares quite a lot about his investment as well. £2m and he's not even got a guaranteed seat in the boardroom for that, and given that he's told the Echo that he doesn't have the £6m Lowe and Wilde have suggested he inject and then take their places, £2m is clearly still a lot of money to him.

 

for the same reason, keeping an eye on things, and when they didnt like what they saw..well, we all know what happened.

[Window Cleaner]

What the hell is going on with this thread?

 

Uninformed and hypothetical discussion, same as usual??

[alpine_saint]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4078741.Crouch__Why_I_proposed_changes/

 

 

Have to say I agree with the majority of this, I believe he really is prepared to put his money where his mouth is.

 

I reckon this article, and the reasonable terms that were offered and were declined, indicate clearly that the problems lie with the self-opinionatedness and intransigence of Lowe and Wilde. How do Lowe and Wilde suffer when Wotte and JP are sacked, except on a pride level ?

 

So, for all those of you who think the big 3 working together is the only way out of this mess, never let it be said again that Crouch is the obstacle to this..

[alpine_saint]

Think the issue here is obvious - Crouch is fortunate enough to have his 2 mil ready to put in.... unfortunately, I would guess that both Wilde and Lowe do NOT have those kind of liquid assets to hand - If the injection of 6 mil was going to save the club and allow it to survive - prop up the shareprice etc, and save their sahre investment then I have no doubt Wilde and Lowe would do their bit IF they had the cash available -if only to SAVE their investment - but I seriously do not think they do.

 

The question then is, does Crouch know this, because if so, is it not really a hollow offer no matter how generous, because he wont do this without the others who he knows cant?

 

Duncan (FF) reckons this is a cheap shot at Crouch who is obviously a fan prpared to put his money where his mouth is - which is fair enough, but I disagree, I would ask that questions direct to Leon:

 

Leon, I appreciate that this is a genuine offer and a very generous one at that considering the high risk involved that could in effect wipe out this loan to the club, but do you believe both Wilde and Lowe actually have this amount in liquid assets or are they simply refusing to be as generous.... because of the risk. I know if I had exactly 2mil my net wortyh so to speak, would I risk it all on saints? No

 

Only a Lowe Luvvie could turn an offer to help save the club into that load of steaming turds.

[Danbert]

To me this stinks of gesture politics on Crouch's part. I'm sure he didn't really expect Lowe and Wilde to come up with 2m each.

[St Marco]

I think if he had 6 million or could get it then he'd probably be up for it.

I think his personal wealth is vastly overestimated. I mean he made a couple of million last year but probably gets hit for some tax.Never did understand Lymington Precision, he sold it to the management but he's still the CEO (or whatever).

 

He made £2.4m last year alone

http://www.thisishampshire.net/news/hampshirenews/3741343.Hampshire_bosses_pocket_fortune_despite_financial_meltdown/

[CanadaSaint]

To be fair we only have Crouch's side of this meeting. I'd like to know what his proposal (demands?) really consisted of, other than a change in manager. He has zero credibility in Lowe's and Wilde's eyes because of how he supposedly "mismanaged" the club, so they're hardly likely to hand him the reins while they still own shares.

 

The resignation/removal of JP might have been an area in which Crouch and Wilde WERE on the same page (not that Wilde would have admitted this at the meeting). Wilde was unnerved by the Doncaster crowd fisaco, so Lowe might have had his hand forced a little there. But he still came back with a "screw you" appointment of Wotte to keep his Dutch experiment alive.

 

The "come back when you have six million" comment was pure Lowe - arrogant and patronizing.

 

I don't see that money going in its entirety to cut the overdraft because that gets us nowhere, really, and the word was that this was being reduced gradually and in a way that should have satisfied Barclays. I suspect Crouch's proposal for joint cash injections was aimed largely at strengthening the squad before the window closes, so his concept has a really short shelf life.

 

I'm not sure how Leon can make this work if he doesn't have the money to buy out Wilde, Lowe and Lowe's associates. And even then it would produce virtually no squad strengthening.

 

And I'm not sure how he can cut Lowe and Wilde out of future control situations if they don't "walk" because, in my understanding, a Unanimous Shareholders Agreement needs to be just that - unanimous. How on earth could he get unanimous shareholder buy in, never mind quickly?

[stevegrant]

for the same reason, keeping an eye on things, and when they didnt like what they saw..well, we all know what happened.

And yet when Crouch goes, it's "because he's a fan, he's one of us"? Sorry, but that's pure hypocrisy.

 

Wilde had been going to games for a number of years before he got involved at boardroom level, Lowe clearly hadn't but it would be incredibly hard not to have built up some sort of affinity for the club after such a long period of "service", particularly when you consider how much the club has done for him.

[Big Bad Bob]

Only a Lowe Luvvie could turn an offer to help save the club into that load of steaming turds.

 

I think you'll find a lot more people than just FC are of this opinion Alps!!

[Window Cleaner]

And yet when Crouch goes, it's "because he's a fan, he's one of us"? Sorry, but that's pure hypocrisy.

 

Wilde had been going to games for a number of years before he got involved at boardroom level, Lowe clearly hadn't but it would be incredibly hard not to have built up some sort of affinity for the club after such a long period of "service", particularly when you consider how much the club has done for him.

 

What's more Wilde is getting us a plum away game with Jersey on 9th February

(must be international week). Not a bad away day that, not that I'll be able to get time off though.

[alpine_saint]

We might only have Crouch's side of the meeting, but if Wilde and Lowe have nothing to be embarassed about and feel Crouch has misrepresented them and the meeting, they have every opportunity and right to reply via the OS or the Echo, dont they ??

 

Or maybe.......

[Weston Saint]

Whatever is put into SLH by way of a loan is risky. Crouch does not have the sort of money to gamble £6m but he is prepared to risk £2m. However, quite rightly he expects the other two to take a gamble as well and they, for whatever reason, are not prepared to.

 

To suggest that if he puts the £6m in and they will stand down is a cheap shot. They know he cannot and even if he did they still have their shares. Crouch takes all the risks.

 

If the club sinks, well it is close to that now anyway and may be a very good reason why Lowe and Wilde do not want to gamble further. If it floats and goes on to better things they gain in any share price recovery without the risks.

 

Some may say they should sell their shares if Crouch comes up with the £6m but to who? No one wants them. Crouch cannot buy them as it will take him past the magical 30% and leave him with nothing further to invest. He wants ALL available money to pay off the bank and try to take this club forward.

 

Crouch cannot win. Lowe and Wilde hold all the aces at present. 9 out of 10 for trying but ours and Crouch's frustration as supporters of SFC just rolls on helplessly.

 

I am fed up with it all. The sad thing is it is even straining good friendships built up on this forum. Let's hope the team can give us some cheer tonight.

[Weston Saint]

Only a Lowe Luvvie could turn an offer to help save the club into that load of steaming turds.

Why are you so bloody rude all the time!

[Frank's cousin]

Only a Lowe Luvvie could turn an offer to help save the club into that load of steaming turds.

 

Alpine FFS .... only you can keep turning a fair discussion into a childish rant....

[Mole]

 

Some may say they should sell their shares if Crouch comes up with the £6m but to who? No one wants them. Crouch cannot buy them as it will take him past the magical 30% and leave him with nothing further to invest. He wants ALL available money to pay off the bank and try to take this club forward.

 

 

This 30% (is it called something like a concert party?) has been a headache for us. If we were to go into administration would it be easier for Saints to become owned by a single person and the PLC ditched?

[Weston Saint]

This 30% (is it called something like a concert party?) has been a headache for us. If we were to go into administration would it be easier for Saints to become owned by a single person and the PLC ditched?

Agree plc is causing us a problem but just imagine if there was no accountability and Lowe and Wilde could do what they like.....Oh they are aren't they

[Window Cleaner]

This 30% (is it called something like a concert party?) has been a headache for us. If we were to go into administration would it be easier for Saints to become owned by a single person and the PLC ditched?

 

It's company law,if you own 30% you have to bid for all the rest.A concert party is something else ie act in concertation

in any matter concerning a listed company (PLC).

[CanadaSaint]

Agree plc is causing us a problem but just imagine if there was no accountability and Lowe and Wilde could do what they like.....Oh they are aren't they

 

Would the PLC be de-listed as soon as it goes into administration?

 

And would this mean that it is, effectively, no longer a PLC?

[Mole]

Agree plc is causing us a problem but just imagine if there was no accountability and Lowe and Wilde could do what they like.....Oh they are aren't they

 

Well if Lowe and Wilde bought us out post admin i think i'd spontaneously combust, but i just don't see it happening. Look at them both now - Lowe is on holiday and Wilde makes Jimmy Saville look sociable. I don't undersestimate Lowe as he'd probably love to do it just to **** everyone off and get pleasure out of this, but even he must now know that he's Saints equivilent of Gerald Ratner and to get his friends to bankroll him would be a major gamble.

[Frank's cousin]

Didn't he just say maybe Lowe and Wilde don't have the 2m? Which they probably don't do they?

 

He hasn't said it wouldn't be great if it happened, or that Crouch shouldn't be praised for at least wanted to do so himself.

 

I'd put up 2m if I had it spare, but sadly I don't, just like Leon doesn't have 6m to spare.

 

I just wish there were enough people who cared with money to get 6m together. It's not a large amount in football terms really is it. If people really cared. Crouch, Lawrie, Merrington, Fulthorpe, MLT and others can surely work together, if not to invest money themselves, then to form a group that can. Just needs some weight behind it.

 

This is the problem afc - there are simply not enough wealthy folk out there who a CAN or WILL put in the money. Its just too risky in this current climate and we tend to look at this through the rose tinted specs of fans, Its a lot bigger decison when its actually your money at risk.

 

I am sure Leon WOULD do this, afterall he has clearly stated this now quite publically (although the ECHO piece does not actually state his actual offer online) - and I acknowledge that even if Lowe and Wilde DID have this as liquid assets there is no guarrantee that they would not see this as too risky an investment and would od the same. But I simply dont get the likes of Alpine who seem almost zealot pillow biters of Crouch that they raise their ugly heads the moment anyone dares ask a question - no different when some of us were asking the same questions of Wildes 'investors in teh wings' - something they conveniently forget.

 

Lowe might well be the tightest meanest greedy bastard in at the club, determined only to look after himself - but he has never PROMISED to invest his own cash or promised investors in statements to fans that have then not materialised. There is a difference which Alpine seems unable to grasp.

 

Leon, to be fair has had some stick from me on here, not that he probably cares less about the ramblings of a few nutters on here, soem of it probably a bit churlish fair enough, but I do stand by the point that he must know what is possible and what is not - and throwing down these sorts of guantlets is on the side of grandstanding and the fan friendly stuff wilde was doing with the investment in the wings?

[Weston Saint]

Would the PLC be de-listed as soon as it goes into administration?

 

And would this mean that it is, effectively, no longer a PLC?

Shares are suspended the moment an Administrator is appointed

[Window Cleaner]

Well if Lowe and Wilde bought us out post admin i think i'd spontaneously combust, but i just don't see it happening. Look at them both now - Lowe is on holiday and Wilde makes Jimmy Saville look sociable. I don't undersestimate Lowe as he'd probably love to do it just to **** everyone off and get pleasure out of this, but even he must now know that he's Saints equivilent of Gerald Ratner and to get his friends to bankroll him would be a major gamble.

 

 

Gerald Ratner's only misdemeanour was to tell the listening world (that weren't supposed to be listening)that his stores sold crap. He was talking about the boom and bust 80s. Indicated and awful tray and glasses and said.

 

“ We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?" I say, because it's total crap. ”

 

I went to that function, my ex was in the jewellery trade, must say it raised a laugh.

[70's Mike]

It will be interesting to see what happens because if we are in the financial meltdown that is being pictured from SMS then surely this will happen and Rupert/Michael will step down due to Barclays pressure.

However if Rupert has been spinning the financial position to justify following his vision as to how the club should be run then nothing will happen and we can assume that money is not quite as tight as we were led to believe

[Window Cleaner]

It will be interesting to see what happens because if we are in the financial meltdown that is being pictured from SMS then surely this will happen and Rupert/Michael will step down due to Barclays pressure.

However if Rupert has been spinning the financial position to justify following his vision as to how the club should be run then nothing will happen and we can assume that money is not quite as tight as we were led to believe

 

Doubt it, looks like we're reducing our overdraft. We know it was 6.62 million, now we have a range of 4.5 to 6 million,depending on which of the version you believe. Crowds way down, overdraft down=AOK ,Roger and Out according to the Barclay's Bank Manual.

[70's Mike]

Doubt it, looks like we're reducing our overdraft. We know it was 6.62 million, now we have a range of 4.5 to 6 million,depending on which of the version you believe. Crowds way down, overdraft down=AOK ,Roger and Out according to the Barclay's Bank Manual.

 

 

So why can we afford to turn down Crouch's money ?

[Puddings and Monkeys]

It will be interesting to see what happens because if we are in the financial meltdown that is being pictured from SMS then surely this will happen and Rupert/Michael will step down due to Barclays pressure.

However if Rupert has been spinning the financial position to justify following his vision as to how the club should be run then nothing will happen and we can assume that money is not quite as tight as we were led to believe

 

Why would Barclays ask them to step down when they have drastically improved the financial position? Even if they did, why would they want Crouch back in...someone they associate with letting costs run out of control.

[Thedelldays]

So why can we afford to turn down Crouch's money ?

have we..?

[fos1]

Why would Barclays ask them to step down when they have drastically improved the financial position? Even if they did, why would they want Crouch back in...someone they associate with letting costs run out of control.

 

Your wrong Crouch had the full backing of the bank so they certainly do not "associate him with letting costs run out of control" !!

[70's Mike]

Why would Barclays ask them to step down when they have drastically improved the financial position? Even if they did, why would they want Crouch back in...someone they associate with letting costs run out of control.

 

if they have drastically improved the position why are they still pleading poverty and as far as i am aware Barclays had reached a deal with Crouch before he was removed by Lowe/Wilde

[Mole]

Why would Barclays ask them to step down when they have drastically improved the financial position? Even if they did, why would they want Crouch back in...someone they associate with letting costs run out of control.

 

Am i getting a bit confused here, but i thought it was Wilde and his Execs that spent all the money post relegation.:confused:

[CanadaSaint]

Shares are suspended the moment an Administrator is appointed

 

Thanks, Ron.

 

So it still exists as a PLC but it's effectively in suspended animation pending resolution of the financial issues by the Administrator?

 

What I'm getting at is whether it would re-emerge as a PLC or be re-constituted in whatever corporate form the acquirer chooses.

[Weston Saint]

Thanks, Ron.

 

So it still exists as a PLC but it's effectively in suspended animation pending resolution of the financial issues by the Administrator?

 

What I'm getting at is whether it would re-emerge as a PLC or be re-constituted in whatever corporate form the acquirer chooses.

Well if the Administrator could pay off or restructure all the debts and the company was a going concern it would return to the shareholders after the Administator had taken his fat fee. That is very unlikely.

 

So he sells the company to someone. It would not be a plc but there is nothing to stop the new owner being a plc or selling shares in the company on the open market.

 

That would be my understanding but I have limited knowledge on the subject

[Window Cleaner]

Am i getting a bit confused here, but i thought it was Wilde and his Execs that spent all the money post relegation.:confused:

 

I love this one, Wilde and the Execs spent 7m when they came-true.

We got to the play-offs,f*ck them cheating Derby bastards,then the err sold players (because they wanted to leave) for an amount far greater than that which they had spent. That's called good business. The fact that the player didn't perform in the season after the play-off campaign is neither here no there. If you look at the "Wilde+Execs regime" I think you would find that the amounts received for players by far outweighs the amount paid for players.

Just that Burley gave up the ghost, couldn't wait to f*ck off out of it but the execs (and probably Crouch as well) wouldn't sack the t*rd and give him a

3 million quid grin on his face.Then when he did wander off we (Crouch and Lawrie) appointed that pair of arch idiots Dodd and Gorman and let them finish the job Burley had started.

[saintjay77]

all sound like nice ideas from crouch but the shareholdings are split so much that any one persons idea is quickly going to be slated by the others so turns into empty gestures very easily.

 

I have no doubt Leon wants things to get better but just because he has proposed something and thinks his proposals are good it doesnt actually mean that they are. Same as Rupes and Wildes ideas seem good to them yet right now we are in the bottom 3.

 

Any of you could offer to put in 5.5 Million to clear the overdraft if I stump up the other .5 mil. I would say no and look like I am not helping the club I supposedly support and you lot would look like the fan that is willing to put there money where there mouth is.

 

At least it looks like Leon has taken notice of MLT and Franny's coments though and is thinking more about the club than the personallitys. I hope he still has this in mind when the other 2 buck there ideas up and think about the same.

[saintjay77]

Why would Barclays ask them to step down when they have drastically improved the financial position? Even if they did, why would they want Crouch back in...someone they associate with letting costs run out of control.

 

thing is if Lowe and Wilde have reduced the overdraft and eased the finacial mess as much as was agreed by Barcleys then everything is on target and the bank will look at the offer from crouch as a bonus if it happens and ignore it if it doesnt. if Lowe and Wilde are no-where near achiving what they set out to then they will probably force there hand a little and we could see crouch come back in.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Blah, blah, blah. You obviously haven't read the article very carefully, and as too many do, talk out of mere prejudice. Crouch did not say he would wipe out the overdraft: he proposed that all three leading shareholders do so together. If Lowe and Wilde lack the liquid capital to do so, then Crouch's proposal comes to no more than: hey, I'm richer than you, step aside for me. That isn't helpful, unless Crouch is actually rich enough to carry the club's debt on his own, as Lowe and wilde pointed out, and Crouch stated explicitly that he is NOT rich enough to do that. As to this "last pay cheque" business: Wilde has invested a couple of millon into SFC, and seen that investment dwindle to about a third or so of what he put in, so to suggest that all he wants is to wring money out of the club is the height of nonsense! Do you actually have any evidence about what he (or Lowe for that matter) are getting paid? I see no evidence of it. I've seen no evidence that Wilde gets paid anything at all!

 

The trouble with Crouch, is that he seems more interested in grandstanding than anything else. If he really is able to solve Saints' financial problems, it's puzzling that he did not do so before now, and still isn't doing so. He knows what it requires: he has to find, either himself or with allies, 6 million quid to pay off the overdraft. I suggest he should either put up or shut up. As it is, Wilde stands to lose more than any one other shareholder if Saints go into administration, and Lowe's bank balance and business reputation would also take a huge hit. I suggest they are doing what they can to keep the club afloat, out of self-interest if for no other motivation. God knows they get little else out of it but abuse.

 

If only folks could engage in constructive criticism rather than just constantly venting hate ansd spite! Goodness knows this regime is not above some good constructive criticism, but I haven't seen any on this forum!

 

LC said “I thought mine was a good proposal – it would have enabled us to get rid of our overdraft and give ourselves a fighting chance of bringing in some experienced players and an experienced English manager"

 

So one must presume that the other two declined any of his proposals? Which makes me wonder what it is exactly that the two clowns are doing in charge of the club!

 

Wipe out an overdraft, is that about £6m? Plus the, presumably, crippling interest on it?

 

A fighting chance of bringing in some experienced players? Presumably his proposal meant they would have been able to raise an amount to do this?

 

An experienced English manager? again this might well have cost a bit.

 

So what, exactly, was the flaw in his proposal?

 

Maybe he wanted a bigger say and the two clowns wanted him to remain marginalised? That makes me think it's all about control.

 

Couple of fools, in my honest opinion, with not a care about the business in reality.

 

God help us.