St Mary's Stadium

[Matthew Le God]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Spending on hotels and fancy shops.

Do remember where the ground is!!!

The development in part would be to change that perception through gentrification of the surrounding area

Edited yesterday at 09:13 by Matthew Le God

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The development in part would be to change that perception through gentrification of the surrounding area

What are the plans up the Council's sleeve for this?

 

[Turkish]

13 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Doesn't that depends on Solak - i.e., isn't spend on the club's infrastructure is exempt from PSR calculations? If so, that means he can underwrite those costs it if he wishes, which would mitigate the impact on playing budget/transfers?

that isn't the point

It's exempt from PSR calculations but you still have to pay for it somehow. If it costs 30m a year and only brings in 20m a year how does the rest get covered? 

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

What are the plans up the Council's sleeve for this?

 

I doubt anything will be happening to those areas any time soon. But large scale developments act as catalysts for further development in an area in future years. 

[samcrocker]

16 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You seem to be completely dismissing the question of whether the building industry has magically found a way to make foundations better in the last 25 years.

Read on and you'll see that comment has been addressed...

"Unless the existing building has got lighter over time there is no way to utilise what's there for expansion upwards."

[samcrocker]

2 hours ago, EssEffCee said:

The £3m would affect PSR if it's an interest payment as interest is considered a day to day running cost and isn't excluded from the calculations.

Something which affected Everton a lot I believe.

Loan repayments on infrastructure costs fall outside of PSR, as long as you can show separation from day to day costs such as wages, maintenance, etc.

Everton spent the stadium loans on paying the wages, which is why they have issues.

Whether Solak/Sports Republic would be willing to underwrite these costs is another story, but likely why he has stated he would be welcome to additional investors joining the project.

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Also the idea that hotels and retail units generate significant revenue that would genuinely move the needle on player transfers and wages has always felt fanciful to me.

These are businesses on wafer thin margins that in the real world are struggling to stay viable, they're not pumping out vast surplus profits that would bankroll, say, an additional £20m player on £50k a week.

I can see it as an insurance policy if we end up in League One but for genuine PL growth i don't see how it can make that much difference.

Such a Dell sized mentality!!

think of all the extra hot dogs we'd sell if we had 6,000 more fans going through the gates every week, Some of them would use the hotels and the restruants around the stadium before and after matches too. Plus if there was offices there too you'd get some workers from other countries using the hotel too when they visit their Southampton locations. The possibilities are endless. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF INVESTMENT NOT IMPACTING PSR.

[skintsaint]

24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

that isn't the point

It's exempt from PSR calculations but you still have to pay for it somehow. If it costs 30m a year and only brings in 20m a year how does the rest get covered? 

Throw a Casino in there, they always make money (unless Trump runs it) 😅

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Throw a Casino in there, they always make money (unless Trump runs it) 😅

Northam to become the UK version of Las Vegas, you heard it here first!!

[Ekelund24]

Won't Solak just convert the debt to equity in the form of shares like every other club that gets around this problem!!

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Such a Dell sized mentality!!

think of all the extra hot dogs we'd sell if we had 6,000 more fans going through the gates every week, Some of them would use the hotels and the restruants around the stadium before and after matches too. Plus if there was offices there too you'd get some workers from other countries using the hotel too when they visit their Southampton locations. The possibilities are endless. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF INVESTMENT NOT IMPACTING PSR.

Sometimes spending hundreds of magic millions to gentrify an area can work against you. Just wait for the first complaints about our world class light shows disturbing residents.

At least they can't complain about noisy football. We can go whole seasons without playing football, if last season was anything to go by.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

that isn't the point

It's exempt from PSR calculations but you still have to pay for it somehow. If it costs 30m a year and only brings in 20m a year how does the rest get covered? 

But surely if he is happy to invest to underwrite those costs (i.e., cover up front costs and any yearly losses during the development / construction period), then as far as the club are concerned we can discount the costs from a financial and PSR perspective knowing it is covered (i.e., becomes an owner loan or is converted to increased shares for solak), the club can then continue to fund wages and transfers ignoring those costs, and then once the development work is complete - we would profit from the increased revenues? 

Depends how it's funded - if the club are funding it themselves then any annual losses impact the budget. But solak was speaking as if he is willing to invest the money himself - and I think he is allowed to fund infrastructure as a way of pumping owner millions into the club and exceed PSR loss limits that would otherwise apply if we were just spending on transfers and wages etc - from his perspective this would be a long term investment to increase the revenue and value of his asset.

Edit - as another possibility / side to it - if it is part of a "master plan" development around the stadium thats married up with the council - could Solak or SR be investing into that, separate to the club's accounts, but with the club benefiting from it in the future 🤷‍♂️

If it something like the above then it could be quite exciting for the future - it shows long term commitment and financial backing by Solak. Although equally we've been here before and it could end up as interesting as a damn squib and very anti climatic.

Edited 22 hours ago by Saint86

[Yorkshire Saint]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

Where will it be absorbed?

Loose lips sink ships x

[Midfield_General]

So the High Street is dying on it's arse, East Street Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there, the Bargate Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there and Town Quay Shopping Centre (in a prime waterfront position) went because no-one went there, but people will flock to a new retail development which is 25 mins walk out of the town centre and surrounded by a gas works, a concrete plant, a run-down industrial estate and a red light district. Righto. 

Outside of a match day, the only thing I'd make the effort to travel to St Mary's to buy would be crack. 

[Matthew Le God]

10 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

So the High Street is dying on it's arse, East Street Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there, the Bargate Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there and Town Quay Shopping Centre (in a prime waterfront position) went because no-one went there, but people will flock to a new retail development which is 25 mins walk out of the town centre and surrounded by a gas works, a concrete plant, a run-down industrial estate. Righto. 

Those things would be removed to make way for it, so they wouldn't detract from it as it is replacing them. Plus I doubt shops would be the key focus.

Edited 20 hours ago by Matthew Le God

[Patrick Bateman]

24 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

So the High Street is dying on it's arse, East Street Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there, the Bargate Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there and Town Quay Shopping Centre (in a prime waterfront position) went because no-one went there, but people will flock to a new retail development which is 25 mins walk out of the town centre and surrounded by a gas works, a concrete plant, a run-down industrial estate and a red light district. Righto. 

Outside of a match day, the only thing I'd make the effort to travel to St Mary's to buy would be crack. 

We could call it Ocean Village and have it indoors too ... oh ... 

[SambaMaverick]

A sports quarter like Birmingham are planning would be much more interesting but probably a bit riskier than chucking up a load of slop and calling it development

[AlexLaw76]

Could any SMS development include a world-class radio station?

[Midfield_General]

18 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Those things would be removed to make way for it, so they wouldn't detract from it as it is replacing them. Plus I doubt shops would be the key focus.

All of those things would be removed? So they'd buy up the entire postcode and all the land for miles around and level it to the ground to make way for this awesome new development? How many billions are being spent on this?

East Street, the Bargate and Town Quay weren't just made up of 'shops' either - they had bars, cafes, restaurants, entertainment venues and whatever else, and they weren't miles away and surrounded on all sides by an industrial wasteland and a football ground. And no-one went, which is why they all fell empty, got boarded up and then got shut down completely before being bulldozed to make way for flats and a few offices. 

Unless you first build - and then successfully sell - thousands of new homes in that area first to create a new permanent population concentration of affluent professionals, no-one is trudging all the way down there for a splendid day out or a delightfully bijou city break. It would be commercial suicide to try it. 

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

All of those things would be removed? So they'd buy up the entire postcode and all the land for miles around and level it to the ground to make way for this awesome new development? How many billions are being spent on this?

East Street, the Bargate and Town Quay weren't just made up of 'shops' either - they had bars, cafes, restaurants, entertainment venues and whatever else, and they weren't miles away and surrounded on all sides by an industrial wasteland and a football ground. And no-one went, which is why they all fell empty, got boarded up and then got shut down completely before being bulldozed to make way for flats and a few offices. 

Unless you first build - and then successfully sell - thousands of new homes in that area first to create a new permanent population concentration of affluent professionals, no-one is trudging all the way down there for a splendid day out or a delightfully bijou city break. It would be commercial suicide to try it. 

It’s getting more ridiculous by the second 

build a load of shops, but that won’t be the main focus. Build a hotel but that won’t make any money because we know the hotel industry is run on tiny margins. The stadium expansion isn’t the key thing here it’s the “hundreds of millions” being spent on the stuff round it, none it anyone seems to work out how we’re going to make any money from it. It’s going to cost billions not hundreds of millions to do anything worthwhile 

JUST BUILD IT

Edited 20 hours ago by Turkish

[franniesTache]

I see we've entered the completely mental period of the summer where people are advocating for the removal of Sotonians from their homes to accommodate a shopping center or hotel at a football ground in a city that doesn't attract a huge amount of tourism.

I swear to god some people don't live in any form of reality, because "gentrifying Northam and Golden Grove by adding a hotel to St Mary's" is about as realistic as the council's old plans to build a monorail to ocean village.

Honestly it's like some people have never even lived in Southampton 🤣🤣🤣

I'd love someone to name a single area in the country that's been gentrified by a football ground too

Edited 19 hours ago by franniesTache

[AlexLaw76]

Maybe the club could include tours of the Northam estate.

kind of like a tour around famous Victorian parts of London (like Whitechapel and Brick Lane). Football tourist can get a pre-match escorted walk around Northam to look in amazement that people still live there.

GET IT DONE!!!

Edited 19 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Saint86]

55 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Could any SMS development include a world-class radio station?

Not sure, but i've heard a well run b&b could be in the offing....

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Maybe the club could include tours of the Northampton estate.

kind of like a tour around famous Victorian parts of London (like Whitechapel and Brick Lane). Football tourist can get a pre-match escorted walk around Northam to look in amazement that people still live there.

GET IT DONE!!!

MLG takes a tour group around the new retail city that demolished the postcode around the stadium...

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

MLG takes a tour group around the new retail city that demolished the postcode around the stadium...

Imagine the coin to be made when this lot rock up, wander around Northam and purchase the ridiculously overpriced novelty Northam Estate foam hand and the Northam Tower block silly hat. 
 

marvellous

 

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Maybe the club could include tours of the Northam estate.

kind of like a tour around famous Victorian parts of London (like Whitechapel and Brick Lane). Football tourist can get a pre-match escorted walk around Northam to look in amazement that people still live there.

GET IT DONE!!!

Great idea, could go even further and they could see where legendary Southampton figures like where Craig David lived, where the laughing Paki used to hang out(before anyone jumps on this for racist that is what he known as for years) buy an Echo at Bang Bangs stall. The list is endless.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Imagine the coin to be made when this lot rock up, wander around Northam and purchase the ridiculously overpriced novelty Northam Estate foam hand and the Northam Tower block silly hat. 
 

marvellous

 

I shot my mum on Bournemouth beach too

Bang Bang tribute t-shirts?

[Midfield_General]

12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Maybe the club could include tours of the Northam estate.

kind of like a tour around famous Victorian parts of London (like Whitechapel and Brick Lane). Football tourist can get a pre-match escorted walk around Northam to look in amazement that people still live there.

GET IT DONE!!!

First 50 to sign up for the tour get 20% off entry to one of the quaint local massage parlours and a complimentary sexual health check afterwards 

Call it the Early (Rough) Bird scheme

[Matthew Le God]

33 minutes ago, franniesTache said:

I see we've entered the completely mental period of the summer where people are advocating for the removal of Sotonians from their homes to accommodate a shopping center or hotel at a football ground in a city that doesn't attract a huge amount of tourism.

No one in this thread has said that.

[Matthew Le God]

34 minutes ago, franniesTache said:

I'd love someone to name a single area in the country that's been gentrified by a football ground too

Man City's and West Ham's stadiums are catalysts for development in the surrounding areas. Birmingham City are planning for that as well.

[Midfield_General]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Great idea, could go even further and they could see where legendary Southampton figures like where Craig David lived, where the laughing Paki used to hang out(before anyone jumps on this for racist that is what he known as for years) buy an Echo at Bang Bangs stall. The list is endless.

Plus of course for the reduced price of £275 per person every tourist can get VIP, 24-hour access to the hippest, happeningest nightspot in SO14, The Knightwood Lounge, where the sophisticated hues of emerald green and rich forest tones immediately transport you to a serene woodland, a state-of-the-art DJ booth sets the mood, and it definitely doesn't just look like a shit Caffe Nero. 

 

[Midfield_General]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Man City's and West Ham's stadiums are catalysts for development in the surrounding areas. Birmingham City are planning for that as well.

Sweet Jesus. Stratford got £9 billion in investment to host the Olympics, they didn't just decide to put up a football stadium and some shops 

[Whitey Grandad]

21 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You seem to be completely dismissing the question of whether the building industry has magically found a way to make foundations better in the last 25 years.

I'm sure it's technically possible but at what cost? 

[franniesTache]

51 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Man City's and West Ham's stadiums are catalysts for development in the surrounding areas. Birmingham City are planning for that as well.

Ah yes Man City's staidum that was built for the Commonwealth games and came with investment in sports facilities into an area already being redeveloped, and The Olympic stadium that was built for the Olympics including landscaping an area of east london that was already getting significant investment because London was moving east (via a huge olympic investment fund) are perfect examples of how grounds that weren't built for football can be examples of football grounds gentrifying areas 🤣

Next you're going to tell me that Salford changing is down to proposed plans for Old Trafford and nothing to do with Media City and the investment in Salford there.

In fact i'm going to revise my question of do you live in Southampton, to have you ever left your mum's bedroom? Because you've clearly never been to London or Manchester.

Oh and btw i worked in Manchester and lived in East London so know that neither had anything to do with Man City or West Ham....

Edited 18 hours ago by franniesTache

[Matthew Le God]

59 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Sweet Jesus. Stratford got £9 billion in investment to host the Olympics, they didn't just decide to put up a football stadium and some shops 

1) When did I say shops would be the main addition? (I didn't)

2) What do you think the "hundreds of millions" is allocated for? Because it doesn't take hundreds of millions to increase the Kingsland. 

3) Are you denying developments can act as catalysts? And a snowball effect of development can occur?

[Matthew Le God]

17 minutes ago, franniesTache said:

Ah yes Man City's staidum that was built for the Commonwealth games and came with investment in sports facilities into an area already being redeveloped, and The Olympic stadium that was built for the Olympics including landscaping an area of east london that was already getting significant investment because London was moving east (via a huge olympic investment fund) are perfect examples of how grounds that weren't built for football can be examples of football grounds gentrifying areas 🤣

Next you're going to tell me that Salford changing is down to proposed plans for Old Trafford and nothing to do with Media City and the investment in Salford there.

In fact i'm going to revise my question of do you live in Southampton, to have you ever left your mum's bedroom? Because you've clearly never been to London or Manchester.

Oh and btw i worked in Manchester and lived in East London so know that neither had anything to do with Man City or West Ham....

See my previous answer

[Weston Super Saint]

19 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

The "hundreds of millions" Dragan Solak is talking about spending is not only on increased capacity of the stadium. It is about increasing revenue from non football things throughout the year with things that aren't affected by TV revenue fluctuations or relegations.

I'd guess things like hotels, shops, restaurants, offices, accommodation and maybe an indoor arena/conference hall. Those are the types of things we saw in Cortese's AFL architect plans in 2012. They all generate revenue throughout the year to pay back loans, regardless of if we are in the Premier League or Championship. 

"Hundreds of millions" wouldn't be needed for a 6k expansion of the Kingsland for example. This is more grand and ambitious than just that.

Where are all these things going to go, not sure they'll all fit on the car park!

[Weston Super Saint]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Also the idea that hotels and retail units generate significant revenue that would genuinely move the needle on player transfers and wages has always felt fanciful to me.

These are businesses on wafer thin margins that in the real world are struggling to stay viable, they're not pumping out vast surplus profits that would bankroll, say, an additional £20m player on £50k a week.

I can see it as an insurance policy if we end up in League One but for genuine PL growth i don't see how it can make that much difference.

I guess that depends on the accountants and the laundry operation

Just need a regular, reliable import / export operation to go with it...

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Where are all these things going to go, not sure they'll all fit on the car park!

We're going to put a 20,000 capacity concert arena where the gas works are, we're going to put the UK Bellagio Casino and hotel where the concrete plant now is. From the burnt down factory all the way down to chapel road will be a new development of exclusive shops, bars, resturants which will be renamed Rasmus Boulevard, meanwhile the area in front of Marine Parade will be transformed in the Monte Carlo of the South Coast which luxury yachts, a man made beach with a version of the palm in Dubai called the Oak, which will hold man made island of luxury millionaire beach front appartments and villas. 

It's all going to be funded out of Dragons "hundreds of millions" and if it it becomes a ghost town none of it matters as we got our 6k capacity increase. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

We're going to put a 20,000 capacity concert arena where the gas works are, we're going to put the UK Bellagio Casino and hotel where the concrete plant now is. From the burnt down factory all the way down to chapel road will be a new development of exclusive shops, bars, resturants which will be renamed Rasmus Boulevard, meanwhile the area in front of Marine Parade will be transformed in the Monte Carlo of the South Coast which luxury yachts, a man made beach with a version of the palm in Dubai called the Oak, which will hold man made island of luxury millionaire beach front appartments and villas. 

It's all going to be funded out of Dragons "hundreds of millions" and if it it becomes a ghost town none of it matters as we got our 6k capacity increase. 

Do we own any of this land, or will this be more like Pikeys squatting?

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Do we own any of this land, or will this be more like Pikeys squatting?

we will just buy it all and it doesn't matter because they will want to sell to fulfil Dragons vision and it doesn't count towards PSR, plus we have "hundreds of millions" to spend on it

[Weston Super Saint]

22 minutes ago, Turkish said:

we will just buy it all and it doesn't matter because they will want to sell to fulfil Dragons vision and it doesn't count towards PSR, plus we have "hundreds of millions" to spend on it

Oh well, in that case all my reservations have melted away...

[HarvSFC]

36 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Do we own any of this land, or will this be more like Pikeys squatting?

You'll start to see a few more of the businesses around the stadium catch aflame over the next few years.

[CB Fry]

5 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

So the High Street is dying on it's arse, East Street Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there, the Bargate Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there and Town Quay Shopping Centre (in a prime waterfront position) went because no-one went there, but people will flock to a new retail development which is 25 mins walk out of the town centre and surrounded by a gas works, a concrete plant, a run-down industrial estate and a red light district. Righto. 

Outside of a match day, the only thing I'd make the effort to travel to St Mary's to buy would be crack. 

Dreams and ambition, young man. Dreams and ambition.

[CB Fry]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

It’s getting more ridiculous by the second 

build a load of shops, but that won’t be the main focus. Build a hotel but that won’t make any money because we know the hotel industry is run on tiny margins. The stadium expansion isn’t the key thing here it’s the “hundreds of millions” being spent on the stuff round it, none it anyone seems to work out how we’re going to make any money from it. It’s going to cost billions not hundreds of millions to do anything worthwhile 

JUST BUILD IT

We're only a few weeks away from MLG denying he ever said any of it could happen or might happen and he'll deny that he ever even wanted it to happen. So there's that to look forward to.

Edited 15 hours ago by CB Fry

[Football Special]

5 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

So the High Street is dying on it's arse, East Street Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there, the Bargate Shopping Centre (in the centre of town) went because no-one went there and Town Quay Shopping Centre (in a prime waterfront position) went because no-one went there, but people will flock to a new retail development which is 25 mins walk out of the town centre and surrounded by a gas works, a concrete plant, a run-down industrial estate and a red light district. Righto. 

Outside of a match day, the only thing I'd make the effort to travel to St Mary's to buy would be crack. 

The gasworks has gone now hasn't it? Plans to build flats on it I think  

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/24368830.hundreds-homes-approved-southampton-gasworks-site/

 

But as a prostitute using concrete enthusiast you've sold the project to me, get it done Dragan 

[Football Special]

4 hours ago, franniesTache said:

I see we've entered the completely mental period of the summer where people are advocating for the removal of Sotonians from their homes to accommodate a shopping center or hotel at a football ground in a city that doesn't attract a huge amount of tourism.

I swear to god some people don't live in any form of reality, because "gentrifying Northam and Golden Grove by adding a hotel to St Mary's" is about as realistic as the council's old plans to build a monorail to ocean village.

Honestly it's like some people have never even lived in Southampton 🤣🤣🤣

I'd love someone to name a single area in the country that's been gentrified by a football ground too

Joking aside, when the big cruise ships are in there's a real shortage of hotel rooms in the city, not sure any of them would want to stay next to Northam estate though. It's bad enough by the Premier Inn , went past there recently at 10am, crack addict stood in the underpass with his trousers round his ankles pissing against the wall , definitely room for some gentrification to be done 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

1 minute ago, Football Special said:

Joking aside, when the big cruise ships are in there's a real shortage of hotel rooms in the city, not sure any of them would want to stay next to Northam estate though. It's bad enough by the Premier Inn , went past there recently at 10am, crack addict stood in the underpass with his trousers round his ankles pissing against the wall , definitely room for some gentrification to be done 

Go on, name and shame which SWF poster it was.

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Where are all these things going to go, not sure they'll all fit on the car park!

And this will fill the space north of the ground 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/24368830.hundreds-homes-approved-southampton-gasworks-site/

[Chez]

18 minutes ago, Stripey McStripe Shirt said:

Go on, name and shame which SWF poster it was.

I believe Midfield General mentioned that he traveled to St Mary's to buy crack outside of match days.