The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

I absolutely agree we need immigrants for the health/care sector. No problem with that. That's a bit different to waving all and sundry through, despite now having the ability to fully control who comes in, to the point that English people are becoming a minority in our own cities.

As for the NHS, it's an expensive joke, and at the very least needs a complete rethink.

Birmingham and Leicester are already categorised as superdiverse and part of W Yorks and E Lancs probably aren’t off. That’s with probably 99% UK born as well.

I agree on asylum cases being too high, but culturally it’s better to spend time in what we enjoy which reflects our heritage - say cask ale, industrial heritage, or enjoying the countryside around our cities with others. The world has changed far more than just migration, Clinton allowing China to join the WTO probably did more harm to our traditional manufacturing industries than the trade unions, management, non doms and the EU combined. But we have to find new ways to innovate as we’ve always done, and we don’t want to choke off demand when there’s a promising pipeline as Trump just recklessly did to big tech in the States with their HB-1 visa huge cost hike.

Re the NHS, it has been a mess but remember how many lives it saved 5 years ago. Compare it to the differential in survival rates between Blue and Red state health systems in America where the health systems and politicians in blue states saved hundreds of thousands more lives allied to more negative vaccine attitudes (something we are seeing with both GOP and Reform).  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10684792/

Streeting is doing the right thing by merging NHS England and DHSC even though there are very high job losses as a result, but there’s a long way to go. Happy to look at continental health models but Farage has made previous comments are a serious red flag although he does flip flop on the issue with devolved nations https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/11/13/ukp-nigel-farage-nhs_n_6150688.html and  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c39z71kmexdo

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You get better outcomes in other countries, 

We don`t live in other countries.

Show some examples against individuals costs

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

On 21/09/2025 at 22:22, Farmer Saint said:

That's my garden, I have 450 acres of other land, and we have some sheep as you can see below...

But no, I have a farm manager who deals with all the day to day.

My farm is not for inheritance, we will sell it when we retire which at the moment is in about 10 years time, dependant on when the wife wants to call time on her career.

Good looking sheep farmer Saint. Out of interest how can you justify a Farm Manager on 450acres?

[AlexLaw76]

LOLz

 

[Turkish]

It's good to see we are paying Romanian criminals 2k to leave though. It's like a saints transfer window, bring in a load of shit, let them cause chaos then pay them to leave. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

43 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOLz

 

 

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It's good to see we are paying Romanian criminals 2k to leave though. It's like a saints transfer window, bring in a load of shit, let them cause chaos then pay them to leave. 

#smashthegangs

[tdmickey3]

52 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOLz

 

Should have sent him to Rwanda........Oh wait

[whelk]

Is there a more depressing place on the planet to be than stuck reading Batman’s social media feed?

[The Kraken]

It’s absolutely tragic.

[egg]

Digital ID cards, that'll help them in the polls. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g54g6vgpdo

 

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Digital ID cards, that'll help them in the polls. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g54g6vgpdo

 

it'll help them with the Poles too

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Digital ID cards, that'll help them in the polls. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g54g6vgpdo

Genuinely never seen the problem with ID cards myself.

[Gloucester Saint]

Highly Shite Street in the news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0q751vlxw1o

Not just an issue during the current government of course. Personally I’d take 10% off the family’s UC payments until the shopkeepers were paid back + 10% interest. So the kid causes hardship to their own family.

[egg]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

Genuinely never seen the problem with ID cards myself.

Ditto, but the masses feel disaffected, and this won't go down well. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Highly Shite Street in the news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0q751vlxw1o

Not just an issue during the current government of course. Personally I’d take 10% off the family’s UC payments until the shopkeepers were paid back + 10% interest. So the kid causes hardship to their own family.

That is a terrible article. Rehashed from a few months back as well. Journalistic standards have gone. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Ditto, but the masses feel disaffected, and this won't go down well. 

Those cunts are voting Reform anyway

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Genuinely never seen the problem with ID cards myself.

It's another of those where I distrust the use of them more than the supposed benefits mentioned for them being implemented.

ID card schemes have been touted for as long as I can recall. Regardless of available technology or broad benefits cited, a scratch beneath the surface has always been about control.

From using them to identify left wing activists in the 80s through to identifying activist groups or supporting environmental or political action now.

Unless they are making ID cards a thousand feet big and surrounding our coasts with them, it's not going to stop a single boat.

Suggestions that it will prevent access to work don's bear up to scrutiny. We already have laws in place, yet there's massive exploitation of immigrants paid cash in hand.

Successive governments have failed to control legal migration, let alone smaller illegal migration. ID cards won't help at all there.

Anyone can do a quick search to discover a very long list of data hacks, mishandling of data, leaks and general screw ups. 

Not to mention the appalling government records of handling IT projects and the behaviour and actions of third parties brought in to deliver them.

Don't think for a second that this data will be secure. It's going to have a massive target on it.

I know people without passports or driver's licences or smartphones. Contingencies have to be in place for them to still have full access to services. Which continues to provide all the points of exploitation currently in place.

That's not to mention the slippery slope of what is done with your data. What starts being captured on the app, may well not be what then gets brought in later.

Even the announcement of this, is more to do with  trying to undercut Reform, than any serious attempt to resolve underlying issues.

What can seem like a perfectly reasonable idea to combine easy service access into a single source, is quickly undone by the motives shown by governments across decades, who aren't to be trusted.

If it doesn't stop illegal migration, doesn't control legal migration, doesn't stop exploitation, won't stop identity fraud or impersonation, and makes it tougher for the vulnerable to access services, what is it really for?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Never going to happen, another empty gesture to try and prove they’re serious about controlling illegal migration, and opponents aren’t. They’ll try and define themselves against other parties that oppose, rather than actually bring it in.
 

If it’s compulsory, who is going to pay for this card,  as they won’t impose charges on the poor. If it’s not compulsory, what’s the point. If it’s free, I presume someone will benefit from having your data. As it wasn’t in the manifesto, going to take ages to get through the Lords. Complete and utter blag…..

Edited September 26 by Lord Duckhunter

[Gloucester Saint]

There’s a lack of honesty from the Labour, Conservative and Reform parties about the economic cost of anti-immigration measures.

Take the 6% levy on international students which the government mysteriously thinks universities will be able to pass on (and students should never be counted as immigrants anyway, Braverman nonsense).

Reeves thinks it’s going to help fill her shortfall and Starmer thinks it will appeal to Red Wall voters. Whereas actually the modelling shows that it will simply create thousands more job losses in a sector which has lost hundreds of thousands of already and drag thousands of SMEs reliant on regular contracts under in deprived constituencies where the universities are the major employer left, with an overall negative drag on the UK economy of £1.8bn.

[RedArmy]

Have Labour actually explained how an ID card is going to stop illegal workers compared to a national insurance number and proof of right to work in the uk? 
 

The most common method at the moment seems to be uber eats/deliveroo delivery drivers who borrow a legitimate account from someone with the right to work in the uk and the money is shared out between them at the end. 
  
 

I don’t see where an ID card stops that?

[SaintNate]

Two Tier Kier scores another exceptionally sensational own goal.

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Have Labour actually explained how an ID card is going to stop illegal workers compared to a national insurance number and proof of right to work in the uk? 
 

The most common method at the moment seems to be uber eats/deliveroo delivery drivers who borrow a legitimate account from someone with the right to work in the uk and the money is shared out between them at the end. 
  
 

I don’t see where an ID card stops that?

Maybe I'm missing something but surely all we need are regular spot checks on the legitimacy of said Uber / Deliveroo workers and fine the companies £1m for every dodgy worker uncovered... Keep it simple...

[egg]

41 minutes ago, trousers said:

Maybe I'm missing something but surely all we need are regular spot checks on the legitimacy of said Uber / Deliveroo workers and fine the companies £1m for every dodgy worker uncovered... Keep it simple...

That'd work, but it'd push up the cost and delivery time of my chicken tikka roti. 

[Whitey Grandad]

36 minutes ago, egg said:

That'd work, but it'd push up the cost and delivery time of my chicken tikka roti. 

Then so be it. We all have to make sacrifices. 

Well I don't because I don't eat chicken tikka rotis.

Although I might consider them if I knew where to get them 😳

Edited September 26 by Whitey Grandad

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

Maybe I'm missing something but surely all we need are regular spot checks on the legitimacy of said Uber / Deliveroo workers and fine the companies £1m for every dodgy worker uncovered... Keep it simple...

That system is already in place with fines up to £60k for the first offence.

The issue is the checking bit which is missing. Maybe spend the i.d. card money on more checkers?

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That system is already in place with fines up to £60k for the first offence.

The issue is the checking bit which is missing. Maybe spend the i.d. card money on more checkers?

Yep, I'd raise the fines and increase the checks. Self financing and seems obvious to me. 

Edited September 26 by trousers

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, RedArmy said:

I don’t see where an ID card stops that?

It doesn’t. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

[Whitey Grandad]

50 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If only...

[Baird of the land]

While cash still exists I struggle to see the great gain digital ID can deliver and I doubt there’s an appetite right now for that very separate fight.

[whelk]

Nothing more than the gammon are afraid of than identity cards

[AlexLaw76]

ID Cards and such like will happen one day.

however, the thought of the UK Government being guardians of such data is pretty scary given the biggest and best companies, who pour unlimited funds into cyber security, suffer from significant data breaches.

[The Kraken]

Yes very scary, I live in in constant state of fear that my name, address, DOB and nationality might one day be easily accessed by the general public.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Yes very scary, I live in in constant state of fear that my name, address, DOB and nationality might one day be easily accessed by the general public.

Yes great point.

[The Kraken]

So very scary

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, The Kraken said:

So very scary

Surprised any industry bothers with cyber security. Seeing as the oracle has spoken here on low level of risk there is

[The Kraken]

Not what I said at all is it. But I get why you don’t understand the nuance.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, The Kraken said:

Not what I said at all is it. But I get why you don’t understand the nuance.

Your little nuance is lost in your poor effort at sarcasm.

[The Kraken]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Your little nuance is lost in your poor effort at sarcasm.

It isn’t really though. Anyone who holds a passport and then claims they’re scared of identity cards because….reasons….probably needs to explain why they’re so terrified.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, The Kraken said:

It isn’t really though. Anyone who holds a passport and then claims they’re scared of identity cards because….reasons….probably needs to explain why they’re so terrified.

Who is terrified? Ah, sarcasm wrapped up as nuance again

got it

[The Kraken]

No explanation then.

got it.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, The Kraken said:

No explanation then.

got it.

Let’s look out for those “terrified” and share your worldly wisdom on the matter.

[The Kraken]

Ok, as someone who is not terrified but just finds ID cards “scary”, what’s your top 3 fears about them?

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, The Kraken said:

Ok, as someone who is not terrified but just finds ID cards “scary”, what’s your top 3 fears about them?

I never said I found ID card scary.

you are playing the man and not the ball here I’m afraid - as you usually do.

[The Kraken]

ID Cards and such like will happen one day.

however, the thought of the UK Government being guardians of such data is pretty scary

 

Really? Ok fair enough. My mistake.

[Turkish]

40 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Yes very scary, I live in in constant state of fear that my name, address, DOB and nationality might one day be easily accessed by the general public.

GAMMON!!

Given the amount of cyber breaches happening recently (believe me i know a lot about this) I would suggest that having your ID recorded anywhere without good reason is an incredibly bad idea. 

[The Kraken]

Just now, Turkish said:

GAMMON!!

Given the amount of cyber breaches happening recently (believe me i know a lot about this) I would suggest that having your ID recorded anywhere without good reason is an incredibly bad idea. 

Like you I know a good bit about it, I had to for a previous job role/a few years back (thankfully not any more). I’m just yet to hear a cogent example of why providing my data to UK Gov for a passport is more dangerous than for a national ID card. BPSS checks have been around for many years. This isn’t anything new in terms of data storage.

Anyway, far too boring a conversation for a Friday when the Ryder cup is on.

[suewhistle]

I'd rather not have an ID card and I'd leave it at home rather than lose it, but most (all?) European countries have them and having lived in one I'm rather more sanguine about them than some here. 

As long as Crapita don't get involved!

[whelk]

I just hope the ID cards are suitably high tech and a chip can be inserted under the skin to save carrying something

[whelk]

9 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Like you I know a good bit about it, I had to for a previous job role/a few years back (thankfully not any more). I’m just yet to hear a cogent example of why providing my data to UK Gov for a passport is more dangerous than for a national ID card. BPSS checks have been around for many years. This isn’t anything new in terms of data storage.

Anyway, far too boring a conversation for a Friday when the Ryder cup is on.

Exactly - don’t know why people don’t think the data isn’t already there for all legitimate UK citizens. Unless you are one of the freaks who wants to stay off the radar and only use cash. HMRC seem to be pretty damn good at identifying people who owe tax. Banks can see gambling history.