Oxford 2-1 Saints - Match Thread

[saintant]

Let's be brutally honest for once - we do not have a particularly good squad. We play 3 centre backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We play wing backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We have 3 goalkeepers all of who are useless. We have zero physical presence apart from the 3 centre backs. Azaz and Fellows are both good on their day but very hit and miss. Armstrong will score goals but needs the right service which he's not now getting. Downes is nothing more than average at this level. Jander has much promise but is having to do too much. Our subs in general weaken us rather than giving us a lift. We are not that good if we're being blunt. If we were any good we'd be showing it week in week out as teams like Coventry do.

[Crab Lungs]

Whilst many of these are of ample ability for this league, the previous seasons mental scarring and fragility always resurfaces - and it affects the new players too.

If we don’t take the lead and get sucker punched, we flail and flap. If we get so much as a goal against us when we’re clear on the scoreboard we start to wobble.

Leadership. It’s been absent for years.

Its ok when it’s going well and we’re pulverising teams but like it was under Martin last time, we have a really, really soft underbelly.

[Sir Ralph]

5 hours ago, saintant said:

Fellows hadn't been great but he was just starting to get up a head of steam and causing them problems when Tonda decided it would be a good time to take him off.

His ball carrying pushed Oxford back. As soon as he came off for Fraser Oxford knew we posed much less risk and it allowed them to come forward. Tondas in game tactics and subs are very poor

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Costa del Solent said:

Dickhead 

Thanks for the comment, much appreciated.

[Teamsaint1]

5 hours ago, saintstowin said:

That was a 2-1 defeat so early on it's a shame I'm not a betting man. Even before the first goal, but absolutely nailed on at half time. 

It's unacceptable to have more than 2/3 of the ball and have fewer shots on target than them. And the fact that only 1/3 of the many passes were forward says it all.

The only time we looked dangerous was when we had some bottle and played quickly. I just don't know why this seems so hard to do consistently. 

Scienza was frustrating at times today but subbed so early. Azaz had a stinker. I know he's come up with some goals etc but he has no control of games. Too many well off it today.

Pretty unacceptable defeat all things considered.

I spent a good chunk of the Cov game watching Azaz closely.

 I learned nothing new. He is mostly in the right places and does enough work.In the parts of the game where he needs to win the ball/ break things up/ help us retain control, he is well sub-par for a team aspiring to the top six. His touch in midfield is too often poor. He is useful round the opposition box.

I think he is probably a £5m player tops. 

[macca155]

That game has really knocked the stuffing out of me. Had such high hopes of a morale boosting win, but all we get is the same predictable garbage.

I'm pretty much convinced that someone at the club is forcing Tonda to play this style, and make these substitutions. He cannot be doing this by free will.

Oxford are a poor Championship side, but even they had sussed out Saints and managed to sneak a win. Just embarrassing, considering the money spent in the summer.

3 CBs weren't needed, put an extra man in midfield, to help deliver some decent service to the forwards.

If thousands of Saints fans can see, why the hell can't they.

 

[Zorba]

3 hours ago, femalesaint said:

And using the female stereotype 'stick to the washing up' is unintelligent and boring, and makes you sound old. Woman follow football nowadays. Get over it 🙄

We’ll have to keep an eye on this.. next they’ll want to borrow some boots and have a kickabout 👀

[Gloucester Saint]

5 minutes ago, macca155 said:

I'm pretty much convinced that someone at the club is forcing Tonda to play this style, and make these substitutions. He cannot be doing this by free will.

https://www.rasmusankersen.com
Coaching on how to build high-performance organisations….hmmmm 😂

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

https://www.rasmusankersen.com
Coaching on how to build high-performance organisations….hmmmm 😂

How can he coach it yet not do it?

[CheshireSaint]

11 hours ago, saintant said:

Let's be brutally honest for once - we do not have a particularly good squad. We play 3 centre backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We play wing backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We have 3 goalkeepers all of who are useless. We have zero physical presence apart from the 3 centre backs. Azaz and Fellows are both good on their day but very hit and miss. Armstrong will score goals but needs the right service which he's not now getting. Downes is nothing more than average at this level. Jander has much promise but is having to do too much. Our subs in general weaken us rather than giving us a lift. We are not that good if we're being blunt. If we were any good we'd be showing it week in week out as teams like Coventry do.

Agree with most of this. Tonda needs to be looked at too. Willing to give him a post January grace period but so far, just because he improved results from a spectacularly poor baseline, a Messiah he is not. If he is being told what to play (3 at the back for example), then he is a weak charlatan. If not, he is a nutcase. Either way, not good. 

Edited 3 hours ago by CheshireSaint

[Gloucester Saint]

10 minutes ago, saintant said:

How can he coach it yet not do it?

What he learned from watching Phil Giles I suppose?

[Lone ranger]

34 minutes ago, macca155 said:

I'm pretty much convinced that someone at the club is forcing Tonda to play this style, and make these substitutions. He cannot be doing this by free will.

I can only think you are right. Why in the world have we relapsed to the pointless sideways and backwards style of play that brought RM's reign to an end. For a few games (almost a memory already) we were bright, determined, forward running and passing and a joy to watch. And it got results..

Has the manager be instructed to play only 'Man City very lite' football with our  inadequate players. I salute Leo- he is wonderful- but his energy and inspiration and all round 'goodguyness' are going to be squahed by this boring pedestrian style. (Worse  bidders  will be in for him  like a shot )Please Tonda stand up to them (whoever they are) and get back to the exciting Saints traditional style football with fast wingers and plenty of exciting opportunities up front to take the pressure off the defenders and  try THB as a central sriker with Arma alongside.

[die Mannyschaft]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

For their second goal, I still can't understand why none of our idiot defenders didn't just foul the striker and take one for the team.  

You'd think they would all know by now that allowing an opposing player through for a one on one against Baz is pretty much guaranteed to be a goal.

We're just so soft and naive. 

We don't do tactical fouls and lose out as every other team does it. Could have just sat down in box in box in buildup. Anything. Saints are the softest team in leaque, not physical,  not aggressive, just think sideways first not yellow card. Why on earth isn't Bazunu sitting down in box 3 of 4 times when opponents move forward. 

[SoberSaint]

God that was awful. A few weeks ago we were playing with pace and energy.

Now back to the slow build up play of Still and Martin. Not getting behind teams as they are allowed to organise their defensive unit behind the ball while we f**k around at the back!

 Poor performances throughout the side but how did Izaz stay on the pitch while Leo and Fellows were hooked? 

[Wade Garrett]

11 hours ago, femalesaint said:

Why, my opinion doesn't count cause I'm a woman? Grow up. I'm not the only person with that opinion. It's a forum. Some people will have differing opinions to yours. And using the female stereotype 'stick to the washing up' is unintelligent and boring, and makes you sound old. Woman follow football nowadays. Get over it 🙄

Well said.  I still disagree with what you posted though.

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

9 hours ago, saintant said:

Let's be brutally honest for once - we do not have a particularly good squad. We play 3 centre backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We play wing backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We have 3 goalkeepers all of who are useless. We have zero physical presence apart from the 3 centre backs. Azaz and Fellows are both good on their day but very hit and miss. Armstrong will score goals but needs the right service which he's not now getting. Downes is nothing more than average at this level. Jander has much promise but is having to do too much. Our subs in general weaken us rather than giving us a lift. We are not that good if we're being blunt. If we were any good we'd be showing it week in week out as teams like Coventry do.

Dont agree that we do not have a good squad. On paper its one of the best in the Championship. Top 6 easily.

Another post mentioned that the backroom coaching is a mess. I wonder if Tonda gets much help? However think it's  a mess everywhere. 

Soft players, with no real leaders on the pitch.

Where has the fitness gone? 

Play 5 at the back, with 3 centre backs, who still cant defend crosses or seemingly know what each one is doing. Seems like a real lack of coaching.

Another manager wedded to playing with wingbacks. If it doesn't work Saints concede the midfield too easily.

[Mr X]

10 hours ago, saintant said:

Let's be brutally honest for once - we do not have a particularly good squad. We play 3 centre backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We play wing backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We have 3 goalkeepers all of who are useless. We have zero physical presence apart from the 3 centre backs. Azaz and Fellows are both good on their day but very hit and miss. Armstrong will score goals but needs the right service which he's not now getting. Downes is nothing more than average at this level. Jander has much promise but is having to do too much. Our subs in general weaken us rather than giving us a lift. We are not that good if we're being blunt. If we were any good we'd be showing it week in week out as teams like Coventry do.

100% this I will be surprised if we make any kind of playoff place and we don't deserve to if we are honest, we are average also rans.... Next season we need to. Get the right players and manager in and have automatic promotion as a realistic target 🎯 hopefully there's no large payoff in tondas contract 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Dont agree that we do not have a good squad. On paper its one of the best in the Championship. Top 6 easily.

Another post mentioned that the backroom coaching is a mess. I wonder if Tonda gets much help? However think it's  a mess everywhere. 

Soft players, with no real leaders on the pitch.

Where has the fitness gone? 

Play 5 at the back, with 3 centre backs, who still cant defend crosses or seemingly know what each one is doing. Seems like a real lack of coaching.

Another manager wedded to playing with wingbacks. If it doesn't work Saints concede the midfield too easily.

Ok, name our quality players.

[BARCELONASAINT]

We were absolutely abysmal at the back yesterday, the entire backline is appalling and nothing will change. We need a new keeper and a new defence but there is no way that is happening in the transfer window. At the very best we can hope a new keeper comes in and an experienced commanding centre back.

Our bench is weak and virtually every change we make makes us weaker. Tonda's changes yesterday were indefensible, i have no idea what the hell he was thinking. Oxford were there to be taken and he took off our best creative players and replaced them with absolute dross, the only player that came on that came out with any credit was Robinson.

Tonda showed he is totally out of his league against Coventry and again yesterday.

I just cannot see how we make the playoffs with such an awful defence and a manager who seems as stubborn as previous managers when it comes to playing the same system and playing defensive liabilities!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Yes it is fickle to be blaming Tonda so soon after his appointment, but yesterday was possibly the most inept away game I have ever been to, and I've been going since  Boxing Day 1969. (We lost to Chelsea). This sideways passing out which normally ends up with us conceding possession in our own half, has got to be down to him. Its dreadful, tedious, risky, unproductive and foolhardy.

I heard several accusations that he is just a pound shop Russell Martin yesterday and It was hard to disagree. His post match comments are surely concocted bt ChatGBT they are so anodyne. I am sure he's a jolly nice fella but, by moving him from his learning curve overseeing the U21s, we have disrupted the whole coaching structure and from what I witnessed yesterday we are no better off than we were under Still.

It was utterly depressing yesterday.

[Costa del Solent]

11 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Thanks for the comment, much appreciated.

Stop saying ignorant and backwards bullshit, much appreciated 

[SW11_Saint]

51 minutes ago, saintant said:

Ok, name our quality players.

Jander, Scienza, Fellows, Charles, Azaz (when ‘on it’ which he certainly wasn’t yesterday). Armstrong - who I wouldn’t necessarily put in this group - is the league’s top scorer. 

[LoyalSaintSO50]

14 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Jander, Scienza, Fellows, Charles, Azaz (when ‘on it’ which he certainly wasn’t yesterday). Armstrong - who I wouldn’t necessarily put in this group - is the league’s top scorer. 

On a good day. Thats the best we’ve got and probably explains why we get outfought and lost the last 3 away. Only one on the list that can put a challenge in was having a second scan on a hamstring injury dating back to the Blackburn away defeat, having been 1 up  

[saintant]

16 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Jander, Scienza, Fellows, Charles, Azaz (when ‘on it’ which he certainly wasn’t yesterday). Armstrong - who I wouldn’t necessarily put in this group - is the league’s top scorer. 

You name six players none of who have much, if any, physicality. You won't win many games of football starting with those six players in what is a very physical league. There has to be a balance between physical players and those that are more clever on the ball - this allows your talented players to work their magic. We are too weak and just get rolled over. Also, you cannot name a goalkeeper or single defender in our 'good' players which reinforces the fact that we do not have a decent squad. 

[Hairlesshero]

15 hours ago, Mboto Gorge said:

This is the issue and very worrying when you look at the bench and realise that 7 of the 8 are just really there to make up the numbers and be a like for like replacement incase of injuries or as a change for the sake of making a change for fresh legs. Barely any of them are there to actually make a positive impact. Robinson being the only one. The rest? Absolute waste of time as far as improving our chances of winning a game late on, which unsurprisingly we NEVER do, since the opening day.

Matsuki seemed an energetic sub, keen to get forward and prepared to shoot, yet he doesn't make the bench nowadays. Is he injured?

[SoberSaint]

I was never Che Adam’s biggest fan but we could really do with him now. To have a player with his physicality leading the line is exactly what is wanted. We need a focal point for our creative players and someone to take the load off Armstrong.

 

[S-Clarke]

12 hours ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

 

That goal was nothing to do with 'Russball', it was because the opposition stood off and allowed THB and then Armstrong receive the ball in space. That will happen once, maybe twice in a 46 game season. That game does not justify 'Russball' in anyway.

What happens when clubs low block and don't leave players in space is what we have now - lots of safe sideways, backwards boring passes because there is no angle to play through. 

You can't build a philosophy on an approach which may do you well once or twice a season.

[SW11_Saint]

19 minutes ago, saintant said:

You name six players none of who have much, if any, physicality. **You won't win many games of football starting with those six players in what is a very physical league**. There has to be a balance between physical players and those that are more clever on the ball - this allows your talented players to work their magic. We are too weak and just get rolled over. Also, you cannot name a goalkeeper or single defender in our 'good' players which reinforces the fact that we do not have a decent squad. 

You asked who our ‘quality players’ were and that is my view. Now you’re insinuating none of them should start if we want to win games in this league  (even though you presumably agree they are our higher quality players?). Who would you start instead?  

Five of those six are fit, so you have 6 other spots to add a bit of steel. 

Edited 2 hours ago by SW11_Saint

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Yes it is fickle to be blaming Tonda so soon after his appointment, but yesterday was possibly the most inept away game I have ever been to, and I've been going since  Boxing Day 1969. (We lost to Chelsea). This sideways passing out which normally ends up with us conceding possession in our own half, has got to be down to him. Its dreadful, tedious, risky, unproductive and foolhardy.

I heard several accusations that he is just a pound shop Russell Martin yesterday and It was hard to disagree. His post match comments are surely concocted bt ChatGBT they are so anodyne. I am sure he's a jolly nice fella but, by moving him from his learning curve overseeing the U21s, we have disrupted the whole coaching structure and from what I witnessed yesterday we are no better off than we were under Still.

It was utterly depressing yesterday.

Your memory is failing Duncan, Everton away (8-0), Leeds away (7-0) and many others were worse than that, the FA cup semi finals against Leicester and Chelsea also spring to mind. 

[Oldandtired]

I am sick of reading ‘on paper we have a quality squad’. I would rather we had the, ‘on paper’, worst squad in the league but one that showed a will to win, an ability to put a shift in, work their gonads off and not let their heads drop when there’s a fight to be had. 
I see it week after week in other championship teams, so called lesser players giving everything for the badge…..our lot just seem to be paper tigers atm, when they need to show what they’re made of they can’t, or won’t.

[OldNick]

3 hours ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

Dont agree that we do not have a good squad. On paper its one of the best in the Championship. Top 6 easily.

Another post mentioned that the backroom coaching is a mess. I wonder if Tonda gets much help? However think it's  a mess everywhere. 

Soft players, with no real leaders on the pitch.

Where has the fitness gone? 

Play 5 at the back, with 3 centre backs, who still cant defend crosses or seemingly know what each one is doing. Seems like a real lack of coaching.

Another manager wedded to playing with wingbacks. If it doesn't work Saints concede the midfield too easily.

Rose tinted spectacles Im afraid. Leo, Fellows, and Azaz at times are quality. Jander is a future player, Charles also decent but we are in denial if we believe our squad is that good.We dont have a stand out defender, and whilst Flynn has upped his game our midfield just gets overrun by journeymen midfields. As for Baz !!!

AA is ok at times but not quite clinical enough to make a difference.

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Your memory is failing Duncan, Everton away (8-0), Leeds away (7-0) and many others were worse than that, the FA cup semi finals against Leicester and Chelsea also spring to mind. 

Context Nick - that Leeds side was a great team for a decade - it’s like the England cricket team getting hammered by Warne, McGrath, Ponting and the rest. Everton was worse as they were past the Holy Trinity title winning legends by then but still a huge difference to being outplayed and outthought by Oxford United on 5% of our budget in a 3-sided stadium. I turned over at HT because it was obvious we would get done on the counter and the football was more turgid than anything Branfoot served up, all at the request of Rasmus Ankerson.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

12 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Your memory is failing Duncan, Everton away (8-0), Leeds away (7-0) and many others were worse than that, the FA cup semi finals against Leicester and Chelsea also spring to mind. 

I think you have to bear in mind the opposition yesterday

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I think you have to bear in mind the opposition yesterday

Fair point Duncan but I like yourself have seen mny awful games and this IMO is not one of them. 

[OldNick]

4 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Context Nick - that Leeds side was a great team for a decade - it’s like the England cricket team getting hammered by Warne, McGrath, Ponting and the rest. Everton was worse as they were past the Holy Trinity title winning legends by then but still a huge difference to being outplayed and outthought by Oxford United on 5% of our budget in a 3-sided stadium. I turned over at HT because it was obvious we would get done on the counter and the football was more turgid than anything Branfoot served up, all at the request of Rasmus Ankerson.

A bit arrogant, Oxford had grit, determination and some decent skill. Yes they dont have our resources but they had heart and fight, like Norwich.

I feel the players believe the hype that they are good and go out with the mindset of just turning up and they will win. Leo has the will that the rest of the team need instilledin them

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, OldNick said:

A bit arrogant, Oxford had grit, determination and some decent skill. Yes they dont have our resources but they had heart and fight, like Norwich.

I feel the players believe the hype that they are good and go out with the mindset of just turning up and they will win. Leo has the will that the rest of the team need instilledin them

Agree on the heart and fight, but Blackburn were worse than Oxford and we capitulated up there as well. The fact remains that they were in the bottom three having just sacked their manager, and the style of football chosen by Ankerson and complied with by Tonda was totally inappropriate and played into Oxford’s hands. Dreadful to watch to boot.

[OldNick]

9 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Agree on the heart and fight, but Blackburn were worse than Oxford and we capitulated up there as well. The fact remains that they were in the bottom three having just sacked their manager, and the style of football chosen by Ankerson and complied with by Tonda was totally inappropriate and played into Oxford’s hands. Dreadful to watch to boot.

All valid points, but again with Blackburn there is a common theme AA missed golden opportunities that cost us dear 

[Mboto Gorge]

13 hours ago, saintant said:

Let's be brutally honest for once - we do not have a particularly good squad. We play 3 centre backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We play wing backs and don't have a decent one at the club. We have 3 goalkeepers all of who are useless. We have zero physical presence apart from the 3 centre backs. Azaz and Fellows are both good on their day but very hit and miss. Armstrong will score goals but needs the right service which he's not now getting. Downes is nothing more than average at this level. Jander has much promise but is having to do too much. Our subs in general weaken us rather than giving us a lift. We are not that good if we're being blunt. If we were any good we'd be showing it week in week out as teams like Coventry do.

Yep, we are roughly where our performances and lack of playing as a cohesive team are dictating - mid table. And I don’t expect that to change by the end of the season. You need roughly 75 points to get into the playoffs as a benchmark, we will fall at least 10 points short of that in my opinion 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, OldNick said:

All valid points, but again with Blackburn there is a common theme AA missed golden opportunities that cost us dear 

He certainly shouldn’t be on penalties - another example of poor leadership and direction on and off the pitch. 

[Mboto Gorge]

32 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

I am sick of reading ‘on paper we have a quality squad’. I would rather we had the, ‘on paper’, worst squad in the league but one that showed a will to win, an ability to put a shift in, work their gonads off and not let their heads drop when there’s a fight to be had. 
I see it week after week in other championship teams, so called lesser players giving everything for the badge…..our lot just seem to be paper tigers atm, when they need to show what they’re made of they can’t, or won’t.

Again this all stems from the overall culture inside the  club that is dictated by the way the club is run by the owners. They’re allowing the players to constantly dictate which manager they want to play for, and to kick up a fuss when and throw their toys out when a new manager actually gets tough and tries to ruffle a few feathers. The owners are the absolute root cause of the rotten underperforming culture at this football club and need to leave before it shows any signs of improving 

[OldNick]

22 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

He certainly shouldn’t be on penalties - another example of poor leadership and direction on and off the pitch. 

I detest his goal celebration

[SoberSaint]

Totally agree with the comment regarding their arrogance. Once again, we had 30% possession and produced very few real chances. A few weeks ago he had them attacking quickly and disorganising opposition defences. We are now back to slow play and lacking the ability to pass our way through.

Got a match ticket, train ticket and booked a hotel for Monday. 
 

Feeling ripped off already!

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

3 hours ago, saintant said:

Ok, name our quality players.

I'll leave that to others, there is plenty of quality in the squad for Championship level. 

Do you not think its a top 5 or 6 squad compared to the rest of the championship?

[OldNick]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyShearer2.0 said:

I'll leave that to others, there is plenty of quality in the squad for Championship level. 

Do you not think its a top 5 or 6 squad compared to the rest of the championship?

Are they equipped for the stye of football they are up against? We have players who have been solely recruited for the chance of profit not for building a team. The teams that are doing well are compact, streetwise , and not 'stars' just good old fashioned grafters. 

[Badger]

13 hours ago, Zorba said:

We’ll have to keep an eye on this.. next they’ll want to borrow some boots and have a kickabout 👀

Careful. They’ll be expecting to have the vote next. 

Edited 5 minutes ago by Badger