Iran

[Lighthouse]

All getting a bit spicy now. Will the governments brutal butchering of their own citizens have the desired effect or simply stir up more anger and uprising?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

I can't imagine how their regime can survive in the face of the UN response.

UN Secretary-General António Guterres said on Sunday that he was "shocked by reports of violence and excessive use of force by the Iranian authorities against protesters resulting in deaths and injuries in recent days".

"I want to emphasise that regardless of the death toll, the use of lethal force by security forces is concerning," Mai Sato, the UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran, told BBC Persian.

"shocked" and "concerning." Just a matter of time before it's over.

[AlexLaw76]

Our great and the good in Westminster are all relatively quiet on this.

Weird

[badgerx16]

Another civil war on the way ?

[bpsaint]

51 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Our great and the good in Westminster are all relatively quiet on this.

Weird

Doesn’t fit with the pro Islam narrative of Starmer and co.

[whelk]

5 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Doesn’t fit with the pro Islam narrative of Starmer and co.

lol

[Sir Ralph]

Lot of blue haired student and those who so fervently supported Palestine, as well as deafly silence from Starmer, completely quiet on Iran. Doesn’t fit their  “morals” or maybe its an ok type of oppression 

Edited 8 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Lot of blue haired student and those who so fervently supported Palestine, as well as deafly silence from Starmer, completely quiet on Iran. Doesn’t fit their  “morals” or maybe its an ok type of oppression 

Countries around the World oppress their populations. Other than words, such as his joint statement with France and Germany, what do you expect from Starmer ? Are you as concerned for the people of Myanmar ? The Gaza situation was a military invasion of another territory, literally crushing the civilians living there and their homes, so easier to categorise.

Should we invade Iran and repeat the mistakes of previous interventions ?

Edited 8 hours ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

19 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Countries around the World oppress their populations. Other than words, such as his joint statement with France and Germany, what do you expect from Starmer ? Are you as concerned for the people of Myanmar ? The Gaza situation was a military invasion of another territory, literally crushing the civilians living there and their homes, so easier to categorise.

Should we invade Iran and repeat the mistakes of previous interventions ?

It’s not my concern that matters but yes I am concerned about the people of Myanmar as what has happened to them is pretty awful splitting families up for decades on end.

When did I say we should invade them? We are silent as if a neutral party. Geo politically Iran is a much bigger matter as it is a sworn enemy of the west. I find it strange that you would defend the government for staying quiet on this (they are now being criticised in the press) and the blue haired protesters as their empathy is obviously only relevant to some countries.  The latter is probably because they are anti the west.

Edited 8 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

It’s not my concern that matters but yes I am concerned about the people of Myanmar as what has happened to them is pretty awful splitting families up for decades on end.

Geo politically Iran is a much bigger matter as it is a sworn enemy of the west. I find it strange that you would defend the government for staying quiet on this (they are now being criticised in the press) and the blue haired protesters as their empathy is obviously only relevant to some countries.  The latter is probably because they are anti the west.

I haven't defended anybody, I asked what else you would want from them.

[Sir Ralph]

18 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I haven't defended anybody, I asked what else you would want from them.

I haven’t seen much publicly from  the government in terms of strong statements at that. The joint statement was pretty weak. Maybe I’ve missed other key statements so genuinely happy to be corrected.

They could ban the IRGC and put sanctions / seize assets on key political Iranians. Do something to show how important this issue is globally. I appreciate we aren’t that important in the world but it’s about being vocal on our position rather than a single generic statement. The protestors could get up off their couches. Other posters on here and parts of the media are commenting on the governments silence, it’s not just me

Edited 8 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[sadoldgit]

Two questions to Ralph.

1. What have you got against blue hair?

2. Why don’t you show the same concern about Donald Trump’s administration killing their own citizens?

(Shouldn't you be calling for the UN to take greater action? Isn’t it their job?)

Edited 7 hours ago by sadoldgit

[benjii]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

Lot of blue haired student and those who so fervently supported Palestine, as well as deafly silence from Starmer, completely quiet on Iran. Doesn’t fit their  “morals” or maybe its an ok type of oppression 

I guess they would say that we don't arm or support Iran.

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, benjii said:

I guess they would say that we don't arm or support Iran.

Fair distinction-I do find them usually quiet though. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[benjii]

The people of Iran are extremely brave, but I don't see them completing a revolution quickly or without huge human cost, unless there is significant foreign intervention and pressure.

Even if the regular army of Iran turns against the mullahs and the IRGC, they are likely to be outfought. The IRGC controls around 40% of Iran's economy and is significantly better armed and trained.

The US is not going to put boots on the ground, so I think the strategy will be to threaten IRGC regional commanders / sites with bombs if they go too far. In parallel, US and Israel will execute plans to attack nuclear infrastructure again if it is back on track, whilst also pursuing Houthis and Hezbolah.

[benjii]

But, of course, that could all change! 🤪

[badgerx16]

[AlexLaw76]

Owen Jones, James O’Brien and such like will out in full force condemning the regime any moment. I can feel it

[benjii]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

If they made that nowadays, one of them would have purple hair and one of them would be gay.

[sadoldgit]

There are many dodgy regimes around the world that, in an ideal world, would not be in power. We spend a lot of time criticising one particular one and that seems to upset some posters.

A few reasons why that is.

We have a “special relationship” with one of them.

One of them is the most powerful nation on the planet and is the biggest player in NATO, the organisation that protects our security.

Its currency has a huge effect on our own economy. When the American economy sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold, remember that phrase?

We share huge cultural references.

It was once a part of the British Empire.

We share the same language.

We share the same religion as nations.

For over a century we have supported each other in armed conflicts around the world.

Get the picture yet?

Oh, and Brett, you obviously missed James O’Brien has condemned the current Iranian regime. He has also expressed concern over what might happen with American intervention given their previous experiences in armed incursions into the Middle East (especially now the current President is a deranged idiot with zero understanding of geopolitical politics, any sense of morality and only driven by what’s in it for him and the $).

[sadoldgit]

A third question for you Ralph. How do you think the American intervention in Afghanistan went?

[Sir Ralph]

44 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

A third question for you Ralph. How do you think the American intervention in Afghanistan went?

Not well albeit context is key - do you remember 9/11 and OBL and the heightened state of shock the western world was in?
 

What relevance is this with Iran? There won’t be boots on the ground - it will be tactical missiles and air strikes.
 

As you are an empathetic person I assume you are disgusted by the Islamic Republic of Irans actions in killing its own citizens and support for people being oppressed on a daily basis by a horrible regime?

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

25 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

What relevance is this with Iran? There won’t be boots on the ground - it will be tactical missiles and air strikes.

Followed by insurrection and civil war. We,( the West collectively ), must be prepared for the consequences of any action taken. Today's death toll may be nothing compared to what comes after.

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

.

It was once a part of the British Empire.

Ingrates.

We share the same language.

Highly debateable.

We share the same religion as nations.

The #1 religion in the US is guns.

For over a century we have supported each other in armed conflicts around the world.

Well, the US has generally turned up late for the party, they screwed us over Suez, and we stayed well away from Vietnam.

 

[Sir Ralph]

13 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Followed by insurrection and civil war. We,( the West collectively ), must be prepared for the consequences of any action taken. Today's death toll may be nothing compared to what comes after.

This is different to Afghanistan as the Iranian people actively want change. The other option is to leave them on their own at the hands of the state. Iran is oppressing its own people and is a destabilising force in the Middle East, as well as being an ally of China and Russia. More reasons to topple the regime than not. You also need to remember that Iran was a more westernised country not so long ago, unlike Afghanistan. The society of both countries is different so it doesn’t mean the same outcome

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Weston Super Saint]

10 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Followed by insurrection and civil war. 

Hopefully another one in the US

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

This is different to Afghanistan as the Iranian people actively want change. The other option is to leave them on their own at the hands of the state. Iran is oppressing its own people and is a destabilising force in the Middle East, as well as being an ally of China and Russia. More reasons to topple the regime than not. You also need to remember that Iran was a more westernised country not so long ago, unlike Afghanistan. The society of both countries is different so it doesn’t mean the same outcome

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya,.........there is a pattern.

The IRGC won't give up without a fight.

[badgerx16]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Hopefully another one in the US

As depicted in this documentary ?

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya,.........there is a pattern.

The IRGC won't give up without a fight.

So leave them then?

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So leave them then?

No, have a proper plan rather than winging it then bailing out when it gets too tough. Remember, Trump has repeatedly said the US is "no longer in the business of regime change".

I think Donnie and his drunkard Secretary of Defense have been watching too much of this

Edited 2 hours ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

13 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

No, have a proper plan rather than winging it then bailing out when it gets too tough. Remember, Trump has repeatedly said the US is "no longer in the business of regime change".

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph