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Skacel back in consideration + article on Stern John

NickG

By NickG,
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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
Posted

 

Sanity prevails at SMS (for once). But what a climb-down for Lowe !!!!

 

As for Stern, great that last year's top-scorer is rotting on the bench at Bristol City, but what the f**k we dont pay his wages any more - not getting goals is a small price to pay...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Torres

Torres

Posted
Posted
Sanity prevails at SMS (for once). But what a climb-down for Lowe !!!!

 

How so? :confused:

 

Wotte and JP said that they didn't want Skacel to play if he wasn't committed to the cause - something that everyone on here should applaud or make a vow to never again deride a player for being lazy/disinteresting/uncommitted.

 

Skacel has now told Wotte that he is committed and wants to play so Wotte has said he'll be considered for selection. Seems pretty reasonable to me too.

 

How, on God's Earth, is that a climbdown for Lowe? :confused:

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

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Posted
How so? :confused:

 

Wotte and JP said that they didn't want Skacel to play if he wasn't committed to the cause - something that everyone on here should applaud or make a vow to never again deride a player for being lazy/disinteresting/uncommitted.

 

Skacel has now told Wotte that he is committed and wants to play so Wotte has said he'll be considered for selection. Seems pretty reasonable to me too.

 

How, on God's Earth, is that a climbdown for Lowe? :confused:

 

I don't really know ...... I mean, Lowe insisted that we play with Youth, adopted a Dutch Masters "Total Football" concept, appointed Edam & Gouda, sold or loaned out any player that could score a goal ..........

 

....... Then, he SACKED Poortvliet ( you don't really believed he quit do you), and slowly but surely, players with EXPERIENCE are now being picked

 

So, the return of Skacel in the Squad ..........

 

CLIMBDOWN FOR LOWE ???? ....... whatever makes you think that ????

 

Unfortunately, SIX MONTHS too late

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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
Posted
How so? :confused:

 

Wotte and JP said that they didn't want Skacel to play if he wasn't committed to the cause - something that everyone on here should applaud or make a vow to never again deride a player for being lazy/disinteresting/uncommitted.

 

Skacel has now told Wotte that he is committed and wants to play so Wotte has said he'll be considered for selection. Seems pretty reasonable to me too.

 

How, on God's Earth, is that a climbdown for Lowe? :confused:

 

Ooooh, I dont know let me guess....

 

Being told to go to Ipswich or to rot in training without ever playing a game again for the length of his contract ???????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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JohnnyFartPants

JohnnyFartPants

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Posted
I don't really know ...... I mean, Lowe insisted that we play with Youth, adopted a Dutch Masters "Total Football" concept, appointed Edam & Gouda, sold or loaned out any player that could score a goal ..........

 

....... Then, he SACKED Poortvliet ( you don't really believed he quit do you), and slowly but surely, players with EXPERIENCE are now being picked

 

So, the return of Skacel in the Squad ..........

 

CLIMBDOWN FOR LOWE ???? ....... whatever makes you think that ????

 

Unfortunately, SIX MONTHS too late

 

So, in essense......

Yadda, yadda, yadda, Still mainly a youth team, still Dutch bloke in charge, loaned out loads of players (by the way "loaned" as opposed to sell offers you the option to recall, I think that's the point!!)

 

You have no proof of this sacking which I dare say is now fact in your twisted head. Oh, and yes, the more experienced players are now being recalled. Had the youth turned out to be fantastic, he wouldn't have, as they have floundered, option B allowed for this. Isn't it refreshing to have a board with a plan B?

 

I see no climbdown. He is merely utilising facilities which were always left open to him.

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

Posted
Posted
So, in essense......

Yadda, yadda, yadda, Still mainly a youth team, still Dutch bloke in charge, loaned out loads of players (by the way "loaned" as opposed to sell offers you the option to recall, I think that's the point!!)

 

You have no proof of this sacking which I dare say is now fact in your twisted head. Oh, and yes, the more experienced players are now being recalled. Had the youth turned out to be fantastic, he wouldn't have, as they have floundered, option B allowed for this. Isn't it refreshing to have a board with a plan B?

 

I see no climbdown. He is merely utilising facilities which were always left open to him.

 

 

"Still MAINLY a youth Team" ...... so, there ARE older players too ???

"Loaned out players" ... of which, how many have been recalled, after scoring goals that could impact on OUR survival ??

"no proof of sacking" ...... OK, PROVE to me ( and thousands of others) that he meekly "walked" just after being in charge of a match

"Isnt it refreshing to have a Board with a plan B " ....... sorry mate, I've obviously missed the last six months ... WHAT PLAN B IS THAT THEN ....

 

..... do you mean the reversal of the Total youth policy, do you mean the scrapping of the Total Football concept, do you mean the sacking of ONE of the Dynamic Dutch Coaches, do you mean getting Saga back, do you mean putting Skacel back in the squad .......... ???

 

...... A lot of people, other than me, would say that comes under the heading of a CLIMB DOWN BY LOWE

 

.... Now, run back and tell him, there's a good boy

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saintsfannick

saintsfannick

Posted
Posted

Omg this really annoys me, skacel was quality for hearts in attacking midfield, hes not a left back ffs!!! Play in in attacking midfield centre and he will perform ! Wotte you're and idiot and you clearly know nothing about this player and where his best position is , he scored all those goals for hearts playing behind the front 2 , get players like simon gillett off the field hes terrible! Put skacel in amc and then schniederlin in dmc , surman on left and lallana on the right , we have plenty of options you just have to use the right one's !

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

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Posted

Wotte has been smelling the coffee and it has suddenly dawned on him that if Molyneux had been any good, Moyes would not have let him go. Very much in the mould of the scouse rejects who seemed to be a permanent feature of our line ups in recent seasons.

 

Rudi Skacel is a Czech international for FFFFFF's sake and he has to beg for his place in our crappy team? What is that all about?????

 

 

Wotte Out!

 

Rudi, Rudi, Rudi.. IN!

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JohnnyFartPants

JohnnyFartPants

Posted
Posted
"Still MAINLY a youth Team" ...... so, there ARE older players too ???

"Loaned out players" ... of which, how many have been recalled, after scoring goals that could impact on OUR survival ??

"no proof of sacking" ...... OK, PROVE to me ( and thousands of others) that he meekly "walked" just after being in charge of a match

"Isnt it refreshing to have a Board with a plan B " ....... sorry mate, I've obviously missed the last six months ... WHAT PLAN B IS THAT THEN ....

 

..... do you mean the reversal of the Total youth policy, do you mean the scrapping of the Total Football concept, do you mean the sacking of ONE of the Dynamic Dutch Coaches, do you mean getting Saga back, do you mean putting Skacel back in the squad .......... ???

 

...... A lot of people, other than me, would say that comes under the heading of a CLIMB DOWN BY LOWE

 

.... Now, run back and tell him, there's a good boy

 

Let me try again, as you seem a bit incapable of understanding. A climbdown would be a situation where you suddenly had to go against everything you had previously put in place. What you fail to understand (not sure why, perhaps you take drugs?) is that Lowe obviously knew he was taking a big risk with the idea of playing the young players AND in bringing in the management team. To counter this risk he "loaned" out players See link for meaning on loaned http://www.thefreedictionary.com/loaned Therefore he is not climbing down from anything, just using the system he incorporated.

 

Are you still with me? Let's carry on. So, the system which he put in place, of which he knew was probably the biggest gamble taken so far in Southampton's history, was not working. (This is where it gets complicated for you.) What does he do? He moves to Plan B. That's right!! By not selling the higher wage earners, but merely loaning (see definition of loaning above if memory issues have arisen) them out it has meant that he could satisfy the banks by trimming the wages and if push comes to shove we could still bring them back. It also meant that people like you were denied your "firesale" and "selling off the crown jewels" expressions but hey ho.

 

I hope I have made this as simple as possible for you to understand. If you are still struggling then my partner is a Key Stage two teacher and might be of some assistance, for a price.

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

Posted
Posted
Let me try again, as you seem a bit incapable of understanding. A climbdown would be a situation where you suddenly had to go against everything you had previously put in place. What you fail to understand (not sure why, perhaps you take drugs?) is that Lowe obviously knew he was taking a big risk with the idea of playing the young players AND in bringing in the management team. To counter this risk he "loaned" out players See link for meaning on loaned http://www.thefreedictionary.com/loaned Therefore he is not climbing down from anything, just using the system he incorporated.

 

Are you still with me? Let's carry on. So, the system which he put in place, of which he knew was probably the biggest gamble taken so far in Southampton's history, was not working. (This is where it gets complicated for you.) What does he do? He moves to Plan B. That's right!! By not selling the higher wage earners, but merely loaning (see definition of loaning above if memory issues have arisen) them out it has meant that he could satisfy the banks by trimming the wages and if push comes to shove we could still bring them back. It also meant that people like you were denied your "firesale" and "selling off the crown jewels" expressions but hey ho.

 

I hope I have made this as simple as possible for you to understand. If you are still struggling then my partner is a Key Stage two teacher and might be of some assistance, for a price.

 

A climbdown would be a situation where you suddenly had to go against everything you had previously put in place.

 

 

A few things that Mr Lowe did upon his return:-

Insisted in going for youth

Insisted in bringing in Poortvliet & Wotte

Insisted in adopting the Total Football concept

Insisted in selling/loaning all experienced players

 

As at now, we have Experienced players coming back into the Team

As at now, Poortvliet (Mr Lowe's appointed man ) has gone

As at now, we do not try to play Total Football

As at now, players like Saga and Skacel ( shunned by Mr Lowe ) are back in the Squad

 

Other than that, no other player has returned, and most are scoring goals for OUR opponents

 

You define Plan B as Mr Lowe loaning out our Top players to satisfy the Bank. So, you must therefore logically agree that Mr Lowe will not recall those players from their loans, because that would NOT satisfy the Bank

 

I was "denied a firesale " as you put it, mainly because of market trends, most pundits would agree on that. It is not a sellers market, and Mr Lowe could not attract the sort of Xfer fees he was looking for. ( thankfully)

 

Lowe will never admit it, but a vast number of Football People would class that recent events at St Mary's constitute as a Climb Down

 

Asregards me seeking help fom a Key Stage Two teacher, I will repectfully decline ............. as I am sure she spend most of her time trying to teach you

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Tom28

Tom28

Posted
Posted

Skacel was in fact a left back before he went to Hearts and it was GB who converted him. Anyway, that point aside, I agree with the masses that he should be playing left midfield, with Surman at left back.

 

Davis

Schneiderlin Perry Saeijs Surman

James/McLaggon Wotton Euell Skacel

Saga Lallana

 

Subs: Bart, Liptak, James/McLaggon, Gillett/Smith, Paterson

(BWP and McG should never wear the shirt again)

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the saint in winchester

the saint in winchester

Posted
Posted
What's all this left back talk though? That has only recently become a bit of a makeshift position 'cos we had nobody else so I reckon it's worth trying him further forward, where IMHO he might offer us more.

 

Looks like we all agree. Now we have Molyneux for LB, I'd like to see Skacel played at LM (Surman CM) and tell the two (Molyneux and Skacel) to overlap, get to the byeline and get the crosses in for Paterson and Saga. The only crosses the strkers get now are from RB and usually from the half way line.

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JohnnyFartPants

JohnnyFartPants

Posted
Posted
A climbdown would be a situation where you suddenly had to go against everything you had previously put in place.

 

 

A few things that Mr Lowe did upon his return:-

Insisted in going for youth

Insisted in bringing in Poortvliet & Wotte

Insisted in adopting the Total Football concept

Insisted in selling/loaning all experienced players

 

As at now, we have Experienced players coming back into the Team

As at now, Poortvliet (Mr Lowe's appointed man ) has gone

As at now, we do not try to play Total Football

As at now, players like Saga and Skacel ( shunned by Mr Lowe ) are back in the Squad

 

Other than that, no other player has returned, and most are scoring goals for OUR opponents

 

You define Plan B as Mr Lowe loaning out our Top players to satisfy the Bank. So, you must therefore logically agree that Mr Lowe will not recall those players from their loans, because that would NOT satisfy the Bank

 

I was "denied a firesale " as you put it, mainly because of market trends, most pundits would agree on that. It is not a sellers market, and Mr Lowe could not attract the sort of Xfer fees he was looking for. ( thankfully)

 

Lowe will never admit it, but a vast number of Football People would class that recent events at St Mary's constitute as a Climb Down

 

Asregards me seeking help fom a Key Stage Two teacher, I will repectfully decline ............. as I am sure she spend most of her time trying to teach you

 

Christ on a bike. It really isn't difficult. If he had no plan B to EVER bring the loan players back they would have just been sold. They were loaned to give him THAT plan B. It really is that simple, which is why he has done it. The bank do not want the lower revenue of League one either, so off load the wages for the first half of the season with an option to have them save us if required was his plan from day one. Do you get it now?

 

That is the crux of it all, whether you or I like it or not, that is obviously what has been said to the banks in his plan.

 

That should be Spends, plural.

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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted
What a joke - considered for left back with mills and molyneux?!!

 

Forgetting the insult of a decent player being considered with two kids for left back, and two kids who haven't looked good there yet, isn't it slightly more important that skacel is a ****ing left winger!!

 

How stupid are these people? Skacel plays left wing for a whole season and we score a **** load of goals. He can cross unlike many at the club, he's a good midfielder, he'd even get some goals. Holmes has some ability, but has lost form. Surman looked better filling in at left back IMO and would be better there than skacel. Leaving Morgan and Wotton in the centre and Gillett or someone else on the right. I say someone else as all our right wing options are ****. Dyer?? Smith even. Then BWP and Saga up front. At least if nothing else it would be a team more likely to score goals.

 

Totally agree, Skacel at LM for me. Holmes looked decent early on but has been poor since returning from injury, probably rushed back too soon by the buffoons who run the club. Not sure about Surman in CM - he cannot tackle to save his life and is more of a forward-minded player but the thought of sticking to Wotton is truly awful. Morgan S should be the answer but he's been dreadful recently and reminds me of Eugene Bopp, who came to Forest at a similar age with a big reputation and now plays for Rotherham. Dyer should be playing at RM although James could be left even more exposed because we've never procured an effing RB! Yet we've got Molyneux in Mills' way for the LB spot, those wages should have been used to bring in a RB. Smith showed ability in flashes V Man U but has also produced a couple of the worst displays I've ever seen from a RM recently so jury is out on him. The other RM option if he pulls his finger out and makes the best of his huge talent is Lallana. Forget this 'in the hole' position - that requires us holding the ball up and not much chance of that from McG!

 

Thank God for Kelvin, Saga and Sajies - the 3 players we can rely on to give 100% in games at the moment.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted

How quickly people forget that it was Skacel that wanted out last season to ensure his place in the national side for the Euros. Hamburg had an option on him to sign him on a perment deal but they didn't take it up. Skacel had no choice but to come back.

 

Obviously in the summer Lowe wanted him off the wage bill and was more than happy to agree a fee with Ipswich. Ipswich didn't offer the right kind of wages so Skacel stayed.

 

Its quite clearly a case of player wanting out and club happy for him to leave. All that has stopped this happening is the player wanting the same wage at any new club.

 

Not sure why so many fans back this guy to the hilt. Is there a player in the squad less committed to the club I wonder? Mind you even with half an eye on a move he's still better than Holmes.

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del boy

del boy

Posted
Posted
Wow, someone else with an agenda....

 

You wouldnt believe it if Rudi said it to you direct.

 

Steady now Alpine...you are jumping to conclusions

 

I occasionally just like to question some of the points raised on here as opinions and assumed to be facts - I dont' think we get too many of those on here because most of us just dont know

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SaintDonkey

SaintDonkey

Posted
Posted
How many more times is this myth going to resurface? It seems like every Skacel thread, someone brings this rubbish up.

 

He played at left back at Marseille, Panathinaikos, and Hertha when he went on loan there last season. Oh and he's played there for the Czech Republic. I don't know the Slavia Prague players from 2002-2003 to confirm that he played left back there but it seems likely.

 

He also played left wing at all those places (apart from the national squad as far as I can tell) but was primarily used as a left back.

 

I happen to agree that leftback is not his best position, but that's not the point!

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hughieslastminutegoal

hughieslastminutegoal

Posted
Posted
Christ on a bike. It really isn't difficult. If he had no plan B to EVER bring the loan players back they would have just been sold. They were loaned to give him THAT plan B. It really is that simple, which is why he has done it. The bank do not want the lower revenue of League one either, so off load the wages for the first half of the season with an option to have them save us if required was his plan from day one. Do you get it now?

 

That is the crux of it all, whether you or I like it or not, that is obviously what has been said to the banks in his plan.

 

That should be Spends, plural.

 

 

My, my - you do have a black and white view of the world, don't you?

Probably something to do with life in the services?

 

If the summer window has closed, and you want a player off the books you can loan him out a) for the rest of the season or b) up to the January window.

If, in your time frame for saving the salary, no-one wants to take him on a season-long loan, you lend him out until the January window.

So, some of our loan-outs prior to Jan were for the residue of the season - others were up to January.

 

You seem certain that ALL these loan outs were always part of a plan B to bring them back if necessary - unprovable, and in some cases you are plainly wrong so far as this season is concerned.

 

Others believe Lowe wanted rid full stop but couldn't achieve it for a variety of reasons - also unprovable, but a reasonable person would probably come down on that side of the argument, as more likely to be the case.

 

So I think your own argument is at best only "possibly right" in "some cases" and therefore doesn't warrant the arrogant, patronising tone of your posts.

 

I'm surprised responses to you have been so restrained.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
Christ on a bike. It really isn't difficult. If he had no plan B to EVER bring the loan players back they would have just been sold.
would they? Perhaps no one wanted to buy them and decided they would loan them until January and then see how the land lies.
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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
I like that team. Although I'd ditch Lallana who has been appalling for a few months now (IMO) and get a proper striker on loan to play with Saga. Anyone big and hard working really. If not, maybe another go for Paterson, as he rarely got a go in a 442, or could Smith potentially play up front?

 

I'd be more than happy to see Patterson get another chance. Apart from the tackle he has looked a decent player and ready right now. Smith can do one.

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slickmick

slickmick

Posted
Posted
I'd be more than happy to see Patterson get another chance. Apart from the tackle he has looked a decent player and ready right now. Smith can do one.

 

The thing about that tackle, bad as it was, he shows he is willing to get stuck in and fight for every ball. From what I have seen of him he doesn't look to be the answer but neither is DMG and he has had a lot more opportunities. We haven't seen Patterson play along side Saga yet. Worth trying two strikers that will make opposing defences know they've been in a game.

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

Posted
Posted
Christ on a bike. It really isn't difficult. If he had no plan B to EVER bring the loan players back they would have just been sold. They were loaned to give him THAT plan B. It really is that simple, which is why he has done it. The bank do not want the lower revenue of League one either, so off load the wages for the first half of the season with an option to have them save us if required was his plan from day one. Do you get it now?

 

That is the crux of it all, whether you or I like it or not, that is obviously what has been said to the banks in his plan.

 

That should be Spends, plural.

 

 

OK, I think I now understand

 

As you point out, Plan B, was to LOAN out players to other CCC Teams, so that they could score GOALS ....... something that the players left at St Mary's cannot do

 

Yes, I get it now

 

I was mistakenly under the impression that now, when the situation on the field of play is getting worse by the week, that Mr Lowe would RECALL the Loaned out players, so that they could score the GOALS for US, and help us climb away from Relegation

 

Silly me ... wrong again ....... but you are right ...... Boy, that is some Plan B

 

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what Plans A and C are ?????

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JohnnyFartPants

JohnnyFartPants

Posted
Posted
OK, I think I now understand

 

As you point out, Plan B, was to LOAN out players to other CCC Teams, so that they could score GOALS ....... something that the players left at St Mary's cannot do

 

Yes, I get it now

 

I was mistakenly under the impression that now, when the situation on the field of play is getting worse by the week, that Mr Lowe would RECALL the Loaned out players, so that they could score the GOALS for US, and help us climb away from Relegation

 

Silly me ... wrong again ....... but you are right ...... Boy, that is some Plan B

 

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what Plans A and C are ?????

 

I know you really understand. Nobody can be that thick.

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SaintRichmond

SaintRichmond

Posted
Posted
I know you really understand. Nobody can be that thick.

 

 

A I really do not understand

 

B I really am that thick not to understand you

 

 

Over 50 years of watching the Saints, and I still don't know anything which allows me to talk about what constitutes success and failure as regards a Football Team

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eelpie

eelpie

Posted
Posted
SKACEL IS NOT A LEFT BACK AND NEVER WILL BE! FOR F*!KS SAKE PLAY HIM IN THE CORRECT POSITION AND WE MIGHT SEE SOME RESULTS! :mad:

 

Is that why I can't remember what a left back is? I can't remember what a right back does, either. It's so long since I've seen either.

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alpine_saint

alpine_saint

Posted
Posted
Steady now Alpine...you are jumping to conclusions

 

I occasionally just like to question some of the points raised on here as opinions and assumed to be facts - I dont' think we get too many of those on here because most of us just dont know

 

Then why not make the point without the heavy sarcasm ?

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JohnnyFartPants

JohnnyFartPants

Posted
Posted
A I really do not understand

 

B I really am that thick not to understand you

 

 

Over 50 years of watching the Saints, and I still don't know anything which allows me to talk about what constitutes success and failure as regards a Football Team

 

Just don't give up as being inept at football knowledge, despite watching it for over 50 years does not make you a bad person. The first important step has at last happened, and you have come to terms with it.

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