Mole Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 After Portvliet had "resigned" do you think we could have survived had Leon Crouch and Lawrie been allowed to select a decent British manager? With the rubbish players we've got and clueless coaching they've had all season it would have been a tall order for any new manger to have turned this season around, but i do feel that if we could have got someone like Billy Davies in we'd have had half a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 We has a decent one before him.......................Lowe out!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 16 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2009 We has a decent one before him.......................Lowe out!!!! I know, and even if we can get rid of Lowe and Wilde, i think we'll be hard pressed to find a manager as good as Pearson for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Farmer Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 It's a results driven business dontcha know ::rolling eyes thingy:: Relegation - check Share price crash - check Escalating fan protests - check Result!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 16 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2009 It's a results driven business dontcha know ::rolling eyes thingy:: Relegation - check Share price crash - check Escalating fan protests - check Result!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 We'd have had a chance - a slim one but a chance nevertheless . As it stands today we're a dead team walking . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I'd be happier with someone other than Wotte with proven experience at this level. However he would have to have been a miracle worker. We have a demoralized team of has beens, never weres and also runs with no more than half a dozen players of Championship level. Add to that no money to buy and the handicap that any manager appointted by Lowe will never have the full support of the fans. Stick all that together and relegation looks certain whoever is in charge, and perhaps it's better to have a sacrifical lamb as manager, ready to be replaced at the end of the season when we're taken over so the new man is not a Lowe appointee? (okay that ls bit is wishful thinking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I don't get this obsession with the manager being a Brit. Martinez seems to be doing fine at Swansea (to quote a CCC example). I'd agree with anyone who says that JP/MW are making a pig's ear of things, on the face of it, but not that the next manager must absolutely, positively be British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongoNeil Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I don't get this obsession with the manager being a Brit. Martinez seems to be doing fine at Swansea (to quote a CCC example). I'd agree with anyone who says that JP/MW are making a pig's ear of things, on the face of it, but not that the next manager must absolutely, positively be British. I'd agree with that. I hear that Scolari chap is available, he's quite handy and he's not British... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 16 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I don't get this obsession with the manager being a Brit. Martinez seems to be doing fine at Swansea (to quote a CCC example). I'd agree with anyone who says that JP/MW are making a pig's ear of things, on the face of it, but not that the next manager must absolutely, positively be British. That's a fair point, but i still think we need a British manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WealdSaint Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Not necessarily a British Manager, but promoting part of a failed team was just plain stupid. But then of course they were following form after removing Pearson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 It was about this time last year that Pearson came in, we were a team in decline as we are now except we are in a much worse position. So personally I don't think who ever was brought in would have saved us. Maybe at the start of the season yes but for now Wotte has as much chance as anyone. Personally I think appointing Wotte has given Rupert Lowe more rope to hang himself with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
instinct Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Maybe, depends who he could have bought in on loan, would have needed some good contacts Wonder what anyone could do with this team though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyFartPants Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Stanley, would you take Venables as a manager for us now on a scheme where he gets a wage plus shares based on success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 After Portvliet had "resigned" do you think we could have survived had Leon Crouch and Lawrie been allowed to select a decent British manager? With the rubbish players we've got and clueless coaching they've had all season it would have been a tall order for any new manger to have turned this season around, but i do feel that if we could have got someone like Billy Davies in we'd have had half a chance. I would have rathered someone new in, Dowie off top of my head etc Think we would still had only slim chance. Difficult to say without knowing who this decent English manager they were prevented from installing was???:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andover pedro Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Have to agree Relegation will happen and the administration that will follow the i think Dowie will be appointed as he does have lower league expierience and he needs to re build his career hopefully along with our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 While Lowe and Wilde are still at the club it wouldn't matter who we got in as manager. Its too late. Next season should see a new board with a plan in place for league 1 football as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 never mind british. decent manager would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 That's a fair point, but i still think we need a British manager. Because all the "Other" british managers we have had have been fantastic success' here and where ever they have gone since? Also your opening post sounds like its been made at the end of the season when its been confirmed that we are down. There are still 1 or 2 of us who think that we will either do just about enough or there are 3 teams that will do worse (a bit like last year) but does that not fit in with the Lowe Out theme? Personally I think if we want him gone we wont do it on the back of the manager/team doing crap. We will only do it on the back of finding someone that will by the t1t out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capel Saint Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 While Lowe and Wilde are still at the club it wouldn't matter who we got in as manager. Its too late. Next season should see a new board with a plan in place for league 1 football as we speak. Unless Lowe manages to get hold of the club from the inevitable administrators. Just hope that nightmare doesn't happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I would have rathered someone new in, Dowie off top of my head etc Think we would still had only slim chance. Difficult to say without knowing who this decent English manager they were prevented from installing was???:confused: Correct me if I am wrong but wouldnt they need to be in charge to have the chance to put someone in charge? The way I see it they dont have enough shareholder support to make that happen. How many shares has LM got now-adays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Are we down already? must have missed that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Why would it make a difference if he was british? If we appointed a decent manager that could get some results i couldn't give a toss where he came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 That's a fair point, but i still think we need a British manager. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Someone in the Nigel Pearson mould would have been ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Hmmm, Holloway or Dowie against Martinez or Sousa. It doesnt matter where they are from, a crap manager is a crap manager and a good manager is a good manager. They dont need experience of the CCC to do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 curbishley or peter Reid for me .....actually think if one of them take over now we might survive. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Richard of Woolston Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Having Crouch & McMoneyme at the helm what have brought no greater assurance of success in the boardroom, trust me. I think the vast majority would have liked to see Pearson stay on but we are where we are and harping back to a load of hypothetical what ifs serves no real purpose imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Tony Adams for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I don't get this obsession with the manager being a Brit. Martinez seems to be doing fine at Swansea (to quote a CCC example). I'd agree with anyone who says that JP/MW are making a pig's ear of things, on the face of it, but not that the next manager must absolutely, positively be British. But the difference with him, is that he had been over here for something like 10 years, with the likes of Wigan, Swansea & Walsall. Therefore knew considerably more about CCC footy than Lowe's dutch clowns. I had to laugh at the Radio Hampshire build-up to Saturdays match. Will Cope said "We will now speak to the boss, the guvnor, THE BIG CHEESE" Institutionised racism??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 PMSL: Venables? Adams?? Peter Reid??? Have they planted a money tree at Staplewood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Peter Reid would be ideal... http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=10037 We could afford to pay him by offloading Wotte and Gorre, Kim van der Waals, Rupert Lowe..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 PMSL: Venables? Adams?? Peter Reid??? Have they planted a money tree at Staplewood? anyway we could get Sir Alex but until we get a striker who can strike it wouldn't make any difference. We've had shedloads of strikers in the recent past, they all have the same problem; They are mute,they can't score for toffee etc etc. We only scored 56 goals last season and we're on just 29 this season. I mean 56 goals when you employ 4 strikers at a combined weekly wage of nigh on 40K is a joke isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 We only scored 56 goals last season and we're on just 29 this season. I mean 56 goals when you employ 4 strikers at a combined weekly wage of nigh on 40K is a joke isn't it? Stern John did his job with his goals last season. Burley bought Saga, and then did nothing with him. I may be wrong, but Rasiak was treated awfully as well Burley after his successful play off season, and then went out on loan in the second half of the season. Who was striker number 4??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Saint Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Who was striker number 4??? Wright-Phillips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spain saint Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Would still be very difficult with our squad. And why go on about billy davies? We couldn't afford him and very unlikely convince him to come here. We have 4 or 5 coaches working for a pittance in football terms. Despite rumours to the contrary, the combined salaries of Wotte and JP didn't get close to beating Pearsons. Counting other coaches is innaccurate as Pearson would have had coaches too. For the record, I wanted Pearson to stay and would obviously have preferred him to JP or MW. I'd also have given him time, I think, despite the fact I think it's likely we'd still be near the bottom. But I don't especially want MW given much time, because I just don't like him. Please show me the figures for this wild speculation! If you come up with the figures then I will bow to your superiority, If you can't then you are just giving us the "idle speculation" you have accused others of in your next post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Wright-Phillips. Why are you throwing in a random name, I was asking who striker number 4 was? But seriously, thanks for pointing out who number four was, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Stern John did his job with his goals last season. Burley bought Saga, and then did nothing with him. I may be wrong, but Rasiak was treated awfully as well Burley after his successful play off season, and then went out on loan in the second half of the season. Who was striker number 4??? Take your pick Wright Phillips or Euell. Although Euell is perceived as more of a midfielder nowadays. I think he was very lightly used by Burley last season.In fact you have to wonder exactly why Burley signed him at all.Only when Pearson got here did he seem to make a significant contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 When you look at the effect Billy Davis has had at Forest (they were below us when he took over) it's obvious what effect a decent manager can have. It doesn't matter if they are English or not, but experience of the English leagues is vital with such an inexperienced squad. For the long term someone like Nigel Pearson was ideal, now we just need somone to keep us up - I would go for an experienced old head who can handle the pressure, I think the kids would benefit big time from someone they know knows their stuff. The very last type of person I would want is a foreign manager with no experience of the Championship - it's mind boggeling how Lowe came to appoint Poortvleit/Wotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Unfortunately, the Dutch brigade brought in by Lowe and Wilde are chancers; and this filtered down to the senior players very quickly. In any walk of life senior pros can spot the difference between sh*t and shinola within seconds. Pearson during his short tenure garnered respect and stopped the bullsh*t, and like him or loathe him Billy Davies would have done the same, it would have been put up or shut up. The perennial problem is that Rupert Lowe has no understanding of football, or football people, and after a decade it's obvious that he never will. He is a sucker for 'innovative coaches' who promise him that they are able to turn also-rans into world beaters, nags into thoroughbreds - a skill tantamount to suggesting you are able to polish turds. A diminishing handful of fans see him as somehow credible, but as a leader he is less Wellington or Beaverbrook and more a combination of General Melchett and Terry Thomas. In his early years at SFC he was lucky - lucky to have found Askham as intermediary and bully, lucky that his takeover coincided with the rise of the Premiership, lucky to have players who cared, lucky to have fans that were tolerant and realistic, lucky to have a City Council that provided a plan B when his plan A failed, lucky to have had the chance to work with the likes of Strachan. His luck has know evaporated along with the goodwill of something like 90% of the fans. Admitting a mistake now, and appointing a Dowie, Ince, or Curbishley might give Saints a fighting chance to allow him and Wilde to resign with some dignity. Sacking the Edam Cartel and the inevitable attendance increase would pay the salary of a football manager. Whatever happens it wont save Lowe and Wilde... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 ..or just not got rid of the decent English manager we actually had before poortvliet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 The very last type of person I would want is a foreign manager with no experience of the Championship - it's mind boggeling how Lowe came to appoint Poortvleit/Wotte. Luigi De Canio took over QPR when bottom and took them to a mid table finish. Having CCC experience or being foreign doesnt matter. The Dutch duo are bad managers, the only other 3 foreign managers I can recall in the CCC were all successful. Sousa, De Canio and Martinez. Tigana got Fulham promoted all those years back. Youd be better off with them than Peter Reid, Iain Dowie, Bryan Rpbson or Ian Holloway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 As if we had a choice... Who in their right mind would want to come here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Luigi De Canio took over QPR when bottom and took them to a mid table finish. Having CCC experience or being foreign doesnt matter. The Dutch duo are bad managers, the only other 3 foreign managers I can recall in the CCC were all successful. Sousa, De Canio and Martinez. Tigana got Fulham promoted all those years back. Youd be better off with them than Peter Reid, Iain Dowie, Bryan Rpbson or Ian Holloway. I think you'll find Reid, Dowie, Robson and Holloway have more promotions between them than Sousa, De Canio, Martinez and Tigana. QPR are minted and De Canio was sacked, I think Martinez has played in English football and Fulham were minted as well. I'm not against foreigners as a rule I just think with our inexperienced squad it's a bit of a gamble having an inexperienced manager. If I was a billionare in charge of Fulham or QPR I wouldn't be so concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjay77 Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I think you'll find Reid, Dowie, Robson and Holloway have more promotions between them than Sousa, De Canio, Martinez and Tigana. QPR are minted and De Canio was sacked, I think Martinez has played in English football and Fulham were minted as well. I'm not against foreigners as a rule I just think with our inexperienced squad it's a bit of a gamble having an inexperienced manager. If I was a billionare in charge of Fulham or QPR I wouldn't be so concerned. The problem with most of those suggestions is that most take money to get them and keep them. The others didnt cost much but the club that employed them took a chance on an unkown. Whilst JP was the wrong choice or maybe here at the wrong time it is still too early to know what good or bad Wotte will do. Its only been 3 games and after the same amount of games under Pearson (another unknown) we didnt realy see anything to suggest we would survive then and he had a much stronger team to choose from. Wotte has experience and with inexperienced players so in some ways this job is right up his street. I would have rather Pearson still been here but as the change was made and with the benifit of hindsight maybe RL should have just gone with Wotte and not JP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 Oh, if only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I think you'll find Reid, Dowie, Robson and Holloway have more promotions between them than Sousa, De Canio, Martinez and Tigana. QPR are minted and De Canio was sacked, I think Martinez has played in English football and Fulham were minted as well. I'm not against foreigners as a rule I just think with our inexperienced squad it's a bit of a gamble having an inexperienced manager. If I was a billionare in charge of Fulham or QPR I wouldn't be so concerned. I bet the above also have many more relegations too. De Canio wasnt sacked, his father had just died and he was homesick. QPR have hardly spent any money, we made a transfer profit in the summer. If youre good, you will do well. Martinez has proved that. What foreign managers have failed apart from the Dutch duo and Vialli? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I bet the above also have many more relegations too. De Canio wasnt sacked, his father had just died and he was homesick. QPR have hardly spent any money, we made a transfer profit in the summer. If youre good, you will do well. Martinez has proved that. What foreign managers have failed apart from the Dutch duo and Vialli? that fat dude who was at stoke 2-3 years ago... boskamp or someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 After Portvliet had "resigned" do you think we could have survived had Leon Crouch and Lawrie been allowed to select a decent British manager? With the rubbish players we've got and clueless coaching they've had all season it would have been a tall order for any new manger to have turned this season around, but i do feel that if we could have got someone like Billy Davies in we'd have had half a chance. I think we'd have had a chance of staying up instead of no chance in staying up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 16 February, 2009 Share Posted 16 February, 2009 I bet the above also have many more relegations too. De Canio wasnt sacked, his father had just died and he was homesick. QPR have hardly spent any money, we made a transfer profit in the summer. If youre good, you will do well. Martinez has proved that. What foreign managers have failed apart from the Dutch duo and Vialli? I agree, there is no reason why a good foreign manager cannot succeed but when hiring managers with no record in this country you are taking extra risks. There are managers with better records than Wotte/Poortvleit AND they achived it in this country - that's my point as to why the appointments dont make sense. If we could cherry pick whoever we wanted from Europe like QPR it wouldnt matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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