St Mary's - What we might expect to see happen (and possibly announced soon)...

I expect Southampton to announce either an expansion of St Mary's or a relocation to a new stadium relatively soon.

"I wouldn't exclude the possibility we would build a complete new stadium somewhere else"

- words of Nicola Cortese

An interview on 13th March 2010, from 36:00 Cortese is asked about the stadium...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8565914.stm

For him to say that, they clearly have HUGE plans for Saints, be it expanding St Mary's or building a new stadium at a huge cost. A new stadium would have to be a lot bigger than 32k to justify moving. A number of Saints fans are underestimating just what the Liebherr/Cortese plan is for this club.

.............................

Reading in 2006 put in a planning application to extend their stadium by 14,000 seats to 38,000.

Proposal document... http://www.readingfc.co.uk/staticFiles/e/a2/0,,10306~41486,00.pdf (an interesting read I think)

The planning application was accepted but they shelved the idea because they were relegated. Their potential new owner Anton Zingarevich has stated since they have now been promoted again that...

"If we stay up after the first year then we will upgrade the stadium".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17753759

So they will likely use the plans that already have been granted planning permission. These plans have a deadline of November 2013 and construction must start by then.

What Reading and possibly Saints might expect to see...

Design of the Madjeski development ("similar" to be done at St Mary's?)

Unlike Wolves who are currently knocking down Molineux and starting again, Reading will extend the current stadium and Saints will likely do similar.

Schedule for the original Reading plan

As you can see it is relatively quick.

Stages of development at the Madjeski Stadium

Reading

- Reading average attendance in Championship 19,028

- 14,000 more seats on a 24,000 capacity stadium

- 38,000 capacity in the Premier League

Southampton

- Southampton average attendance in Championship 26,149

- 14,000 more seats on a 32,000 capacity stadium

- 46,000 capacity in the Premier League (similar to the size Cortese has spoken of wanting at the fans dinners)

Cortese/Liebherr estate have already shown their ambition and resources to back up those ambitions with a £15 million development at Staplewood training ground and going for category 1 academy status under the EPPP.

Expanding St Mary's is the next step and will need to be done in order for the club to progress to the levels Cortese has set his sights on. Every season in the Premier League at St Mary's averaged over 30,000 so it is clearly too small as it currently stands.

Southampton won't be able to do any major work during the summer of 2015 as it hosting Rugby World Cup games. So given the planning application length and the length of construction we might see work over 2013 and 2014 perhaps?

I'd say very interesting read is stretching it a bit far. Good cut and paste technique as ever though Matt.

Great it will be nice to have all the extra room to spread out in......plenty of extra empty seats to put my feet up on....Unless Man U are coming to town

After all there are 20 people looking for tickets on this site so surely we must expand.Seriously i do not see anything happening in the next few years as i reckon we will only sell out 50% of games next season.

Of those games realistically how many more tickets would we sell, maybe a few thousand to the big clubs with increased away capacity that goes with it but does Southampton Football club have that many people waiting to watch us ?

Build a field and they will come........

Great it will be nice to have all the extra room to spread out in......plenty of extra empty seats to put my feet up on....Unless Man U are coming to town

After all there are 20 people looking for tickets on this site so surely we must expand.Seriously i do not see anything happening in the next few years as i reckon we will only sell out 50% of games next season.

 

Of those games realistically how many more tickets would we sell, maybe a few thousand to the big clubs with increased away capacity that goes with it but does Southampton Football club have that many people waiting to watch us ?

Every season in the Premier League Southampton averaged over 30,000 at St Mary's, including the year we came 20th and were relegated. Imagine if the team was actually any good to watch!

Very good document and as you said well worth the read and look through. Would be more than happy to see similar plans for St Mary's but expecting them to be much more exciting and encouraging due to the increased funds we have. The Reading expansion seems to be a very simple way of doing it (continue with single tier and just add upper concourse) and I'd like to think that we are different to others ie. the new Training ground.

Don't know how we'd do that but looks good to be honest!

Aren't Reading's new owners struggling with the Fit and Proper persons test?

For every "Reading" that might decide to expand, there are loads of clubs selling out that aren't.

If I follow your argument correctly, you say that because Reading said they might like to add 14,000 seats to their stadium and then changed their mind, we might want to do the same thing?

This is good stuff Matthew. Keep it coming.

If I follow your argument correctly, you say that because Reading said they might like to add 14,000 seats to their stadium and then changed their mind, we might want to do the same thing?

Cortese has already stated that they have been planning in this area and it just so happens that 14,000 extra seats takes St Mary's to around the size Cortese has spoken of.

Interesting reading. Nice to see that somebody is looking ahead.

Aren't Reading's new owners struggling with the Fit and Proper persons test?

I am fully aware of that, but John Madjeski was the owner when they submitted the prosals of 38,000 in 2006 and recieved planning permission.

For every "Reading" that might decide to expand, there are loads of clubs selling out that aren't.

Such as?

Every season in the Premier League Southampton averaged over 30,000 at St Mary's, including the year we came 20th and were relegated. Imagine if the team was actually any good to watch!

Yeah so an extra 16,000 seats means we won't all get cramped ...like I said excellent. Out of interest how much was a PL ticket 10 years ago and how much will one be this time around?

Cortese has already stated that they have been planning in this area and it just so happens that 14,000 extra seats takes St Mary's to around the size Cortese has spoken of.

And?

I still don't understand what point you're making. Are you just reminding us that we might expand the stadium one day? Why have you gone to the trouble of pasting us the proposed timetable which Reading ditched because they were relegated? Or are you excited because you think you might have guessed the number of seats we might add to the stadium?

In Reading's case, probably just a way to launder dirty money.

I thought, when this was discussed before, the cost of the expansion would take about 10 years in increased ticket sales and that was if all tickets were sold, as that is very unlikely to happen other than about 4 times per season, i really don't think it's financially viable, you could say reduce the ticket prices to sell more tickets, but then it would take even longer

I've personally spoken to one of the Head Stewards at SMS who told me that he and his team have already been briefed on what extra Health & Safety Certificates they will need to get 'when' the Stadium is increased to 40,000!

I have it on good authority that the Kingsland Stand will be the first to be extended, taking the stadium to a 40k capacity, and this 'will' happen if Saints can get back to the Premier League and stay there beyond their first season.

Is this in any way Saints related?

Is this in any way Saints related?

The comparison with Reading is a little bizarre.

I do not believe for one minute we would need to be sold out every game for 2 seasons to justify making SMS bigger.

also, 40k would be the upper limit of the size should they decide to do so

If (a big "if") we expand the stadium, we will certainly put in place more corporate facilities, as that will deliver a far greater return. I am sure Cortese will have this in mind. The other big consideration is that every fan through the gates is also one that might buy food, drink, a programme and merchandise, and once fans are in the ground they are a captive market. Cortese has also spoken about his desire to make SMS (or wherever) a place to eat/drink before or after the game, rather than everyone trekking to and from the city centre.

Finally, I would also think we'd be looking at other commercial opportunities that typically can be attached to stadia. Flats and hotel spring to mind. That may end up being a more likely driver for a relocation than a capacity increase... unless Cortese also plans to regenerate the entire area, and build a SFC-branded river-side plaza or something.

After all there are 20 people looking for tickets on this site so surely we must expand.Seriously i do not see anything happening in the next few years as i reckon we will only sell out 50% of games next season.

Of those games realistically how many more tickets would we sell, maybe a few thousand to the big clubs with increased away capacity that goes with it but does Southampton Football club have that many people waiting to watch us ?

Well, for a start, there are all the plastic fans to the east of us who will prefer to watch Premiership football at St Mary's, rather than going to Moneyfields to watch the Portsmouth Football Club (2013) Ltd playing at basement league level

There would need to be a fit and proper persons test for all the new fans in any expanded stadium. Maybe the resident label whores could help us out.

46,000 is ambitious. Build up the Northam End and Kingsland so capacity is around 40,000 initially I reckon.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the piles (foundations to those not in the construction business) at St Mary's were designed to be capable of supporting a second tier.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the piles (foundations to those not in the construction business) at St Mary's were designed to be capable of supporting a second tier.

Might not even matter, as the new weight wouldn't be on the original foundations if done like this...

Welcome to The Liebherr Arena

I am fully aware of that, but John Madjeski was the owner when they submitted the prosals of 38,000 in 2006 and recieved planning permission.

 

 

 

Such as?

I bet this never happens at Reading.

Stop making this too easy...!

Norwich

Norwich board members have talked of plans to expand to 35,000.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/norwich/9418837.stm

Man Utd

Old Trafford is already 75k and one of the biggest stadiums in Europe. They have in the past talked of raising it to 90k+, but given the club debt and ownership it probably won't happen.

Swansea

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/02/20/liberty-stadium-extension-under-discussion-with-swansea-council-91466-30368776/

Newcastle

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/apr/03/newsstory.sport3

Welcome to The Liebherr Arena

I like the sound of that.

Every season in the Premier League Southampton averaged over 30,000 at St Mary's, including the year we came 20th and were relegated. Imagine if the team was actually any good to watch!

Imagine if the tickets were three times as much in a recession like they will be the time.

Imagine if the tickets were three times as much.

On what do you base that?

Cheapest and most expensive ticket this season at each stadium in the Premier League...

On what do you base that?

 

Cheapest and most expensive ticket this season at each stadium in the Premier League...

 

That means little unless you know how many of the cheapest tickets will be available.

That means little unless you know how many of the cheapest tickets will be available.

Where did your "three times the 2001 to 2005 price" come from?

If I were to guess, I'd say the highest price for an adult, non-corporate ticket at St Mary's next season will be around £40 - £42 and the lowest between £28 - £30. That is a long way from "threes times the 2001 - 2005 price"!

Stop making this too easy...!

 

 

 

Norwich board members have talked of plans to expand to 35,000.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/norwich/9418837.stm

 

 

 

Old Trafford is already 75k and one of the biggest stadiums in Europe. They have in the past talked of raising it to 90k+, but given the club debt and ownership it probably won't happen.

 

 

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2012/02/20/liberty-stadium-extension-under-discussion-with-swansea-council-91466-30368776/

 

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/apr/03/newsstory.sport3

To be fair, I think there is a chance we might expand, but I certainly don't think your post about Reading tells us anything.

Expansion would be the best thing that could happen to us. It'd set us up for a generation and move us up a bracket from the likes of Leicester, Forest, Norwich etc.

 

To be fair, I think there is a chance we might expand, but I certainly don't think your post about Reading tells us anything.

But what an opportunity to post some glossy pics!

Too easy? Yeah just a bit. You checked the dates on those Newcastle and Norwich articles? Swansea is a vague bit in the local paper, but they're more than likely to do something than Reading.

I know some of them are old, my point was these clubs you listing have been considering expansion. Cortese has big plans as shown by the £15 million spent on Staplewood. They aren't looking to wallow in the bottom half of the Premier League or Stapelowood wouldn't be improved on such a scale. They also didn't wait for Premier League football to announce the Staplewood plan, so I don't see why they would need to wait for a stadium expansion.

To be fair, I think there is a chance we might expand, but I certainly don't think your post about Reading tells us anything.

I think it does. It shows a club one place above Saints in the Championship who are averaging 7,000 less than Saints whilst in a similar league position are looking to expand to 38,000. It also shows a timeframe of how a development may take place.

Just out of interest what were the prices like when we were last in the Premier League?

I've got that feeling that Cortese will take the **** with the cost of tickets if we do return to the Premier League while he is here which will mean we struggle to get 30,000.

Every season in the Premier League Southampton averaged over 30,000 at St Mary's, including the year we came 20th and were relegated. Imagine if the team was actually any good to watch!

There is always that possibility even though I find that difficult to comprehend at the present. I have heard the City council will do everyting they can to retain the stadium within the city in regards to planning. Cortese has mentioned upgrading the stadium or even a new site, so rumours that costs for either option are not too far apart don't look to far of the mark for a 45k stadium?

Might not even matter, as the new weight wouldn't be on the original foundations if done like this...

 

Some of the new weight is on the original foundations.

Some of the new weight is on the original foundations.

I'm sure you could make a slight tweak so that it isn't by putting more of the load on the new foundations if needed.

I know some of them are old, my point was these clubs you listing have been considering expansion. Cortese has big plans as shown by the £15 million spent on Staplewood. They aren't looking to wallow in the bottom half of the Premier League or Stapelowood wouldn't be improved on such a scale. They also didn't wait for Premier League football to announce the Staplewood plan, so I don't see why they would need to wait for a stadium expansion.

 

 

 

I think it does. It shows a club one place above Saints in the Championship who are averaging 7,000 less than Saints whilst in a similar league position are looking to expand to 38,000. It also shows a timeframe of how a development may take place.

Just out of interest what were the prices like when we were last in the Premier League?

 

I've got that feeling that Cortese will take the **** with the cost of tickets if we do return to the Premier League while he is here which will mean we struggle to get 30,000.

I'm sure a poster from one of the "Dons Dinners" said he asked that question and got an answer that implied ticket pricing would be carefully considered and fans wouldn't be priced out, but haven't got time now to search for the exact quote.

There is always that possibility even though I find that difficult to comprehend at the present. I have heard the City council will do everyting they can to retain the stadium within the city in regards to planning. Cortese has mentioned upgrading the stadium or even a new site, so rumours that costs for either option are not too far apart don't look to far of the mark for a 45k stadium?

Not so sure about that - a second tier was costed at around £3000 a seat back in 2003/4 - I would make that about £5000 a seat now - meaning an extra 10K is around £50mil.

A new spanking 45k stadium would be well in excess of 140mil depending on design - BHA just spent 100mil on 20k!

I'm sure you could make a slight tweak so that it isn't by putting more of the load on the new foundations if needed.

In construction/engineering anything is possible if you have enough time & money!

Not so sure about that - a second tier was costed at around £3000 a seat back in 2003/4 - I would make that about £5000 a seat now - meaning an extra 10K is around £50mil.

 

A new spanking 45k stadium would be well in excess of 140mil depending on design - BHA just spent 100mil on 20k!

Barnet have considered expansion, what does that tell us?

That Barnet want to expand or moved recently like lots of lower league clubs have recently. Torquay, Rotherham, Chesterfield, Morecambe etc etc

I used Reading because they, like Saints have had a good Championship season and both are likely to be playing each other in the Premier League next year. Whilst in the same league this season Saints average 7,000 more than Reading, yet Reading want to expand to 38,000.

You admit yourself...

To be fair, I think there is a chance we might expand

I can see it being announced relatively soon. The club in League One announced a training ground that wouldn't look out of place at a Champions League club, I don't see why they will need to see if Saints stay up in 2012/13, they will crack on with improving infrastructure as it will give long term benefits that surpass short term promotion and relegation. In the same way Wolves have said they are improving Molineux regardless of relegation, it will benefit the club in the long term to have the infrastructure in place.

Not so sure about that - a second tier was costed at around £3000 a seat back in 2003/4 - I would make that about £5000 a seat now - meaning an extra 10K is around £50mil.

 

A new spanking 45k stadium would be well in excess of 140mil depending on design - BHA just spent 100mil on 20k!

Wolves have built an entirely new 7,700 seater stand from scratch this year for £18m.

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2012/04/14/gold-seats-for-stan-cullis-stand/

Saints would be adding a tier on an existing stand.

That Barnet want to expand or moved recently like lots of lower league clubs have recently. Torquay, Rotherham, Chesterfield, Morecambe etc etc

 

I used Reading because they, like Saints have had a good Championship season and both are likely to be playing each other in the Premier League next year. Whilst in the same league this season Saints average 7,000 more than Reading, yet Reading want to expand to 38,000.

 

You admit yourself...

 

 

 

I can see it being announced relatively soon. The club in League One announced a training ground that wouldn't look out of place at a Champions League club, I don't see why they will need to see if Saints stay up in 2012/13, they will crack on with improving infrastructure as it will give long term benefits that surpass short term promotion and relegation. In the same way Wolves have said they are improving Molineux regardless of relegation, it will benefit the club in the long term to have the infrastructure in place.