Bartosz Bialkowski Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/s/southampton/8187306.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abesaint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Gutted! Bloody work permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Ohhhhhh pooooooooo....!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyb1 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 On football manager you can appeal, is that the way it works in real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBenali Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Odd how he couldn't get a work permit. Would it not be worth appealing? Bugger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ampersound Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I'm sure they can fix that... would he not be able to join any other club in that case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 How the hell can someone who has been playing in England for the last 5 (?) years get refussed a f****** work permit! Thats b*******! S*** rules, majorly p***** off on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Watch some CCC or PL get a work permit for him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughnutman Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Oh dear. Considering Jaidi has been playing in england for five years its surprising that he didnt have a british passport by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotleySaint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 We'll probably appeal. But unfortunatly it means Lancashire and Perry against Millwall on Saturday ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Watch some CCC or PL get a work permit for him... my thoughts exactly, he will be with a club by next Tues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 On football manager you can appeal, is that the way it works in real life Yeah I was wondering that. Im sure you can appeal. IIRC didnt we appeal Pahars original refused work permit?! I mean for gods sake, Premiership teams can sign all these non EU players who have only played U21 without problems, yet we fail to get a WP for the Tunisian captain who has been playing footy in England for the last 5 years! WTF?! I'm sure they can fix that... would he not be able to join any other club in that case? I bet someone else signs him without issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 well that's just ******** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 5 years in England, close to a 100 international caps...something doesn't add up. A way for the club to save face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 It was mentioned that AP had other targets lined up in case Jaidi didnt sign. So hopefully we can get one of those in before Sat. But I still want us to appeal and get Jaidi as well! AP has said that Lancashire isnt ready for first team football yet which leaves us with 2 centre backs, one of which is a sick note. Hardly takes a genius to work out we need 2 new CB's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 5 years in England, close to a 100 international caps...something doesn't add up. A way for the club to save face? From what Bailey said on the other thread (that he was holding out for more money, but we wouldn't budge) then i think you may be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/4532832.Jaidi_refused_work_permit/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 5 years in England, close to a 100 international caps...something doesn't add up. A way for the club to save face? As pointed out on the other thread, he is an ex international applying to play in the 3rd level of the league system - its probably not enough points on the visa/permit form. Might stand a good chance on appeals if a precedent could be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Oh dear. Considering Jaidi has been playing in england for five years its surprising that he didnt have a british passport by now. I don't think it's quite that easy.Work permits for footballers depend on a percentage of appearances in their national side (which has to be classified above a certain position in the FIFA rankings)Perhaps Jaidi hasn't played for Tunisia much lately and his work permit status has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 5 years in England, close to a 100 international caps...something doesn't add up. A way for the club to save face? Starting to think that is the case yeah, but lying to the fans this early on is not good, especially if he signs for another club next week! We have had enough of false promises and smoke screens in the past. I was hoping the new regime would atleast give us honesty so I will not be happy if this is a covering story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 The first blow to the new regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 From what Bailey said on the other thread (that he was holding out for more money, but we wouldn't budge) then i think you may be right. Or Bailey was misinformed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Work permits will be issued to international players of the highest calibre who are able to make a significant contribution in footballing terms to the development of the UK game at the highest level (i.e. clubs competing in the Premier Leagues and Football Leagues in England and Scotland, the Welsh Premier League and The Irish Premier League in Northern Ireland). Initial Applications To be eligible for a work permit: A player must have played for his country in at least 75% of its competitive ‘A’ team matches he was available for selection, during the two years preceding the date of the application; and, The player’s country must be at or above 70th place in the official FIFA world rankings when averaged over the two years preceding the date of the application. Competitive Matches The definition of a competitive ‘A’ team international match is a: World Cup Finals game World Cup Qualifying group game Football Association confederation tournament game, for example: The FIFA Confederations Cup; The UEFA European Championships and Qualifiers; The African Cup of Nations and Qualifiers; The Asia Nations Cup and Qualifiers; The CONCACAF Gold Cup; The CONCACAF The Copa Caribe; The CONMEBOL Copa America; The OFC Nations Cup and The UNCAF Nations Cup International Appearances Prior to submitting an application, clubs should provide written confirmation of the player’s international appearance record over the preceding two years highlighting the competitive ‘A’ matches. This should be obtained from the player’s home association. The sports and entertainments team, Border and Immigration Agency, will be unable to make a decision on the application until written evidence is provided. If any evidence submitted needs verifying, the sports and entertainments team, Border and Immigration Agency, will liaise with other parties and verify all information through all available sources, if necessary. Injuries Exclusion from selection for international matches due to injury or suspension will be taken into consideration when applying the criteria. Clubs should submit supporting evidence in such cases stipulating the games the player has missed. It should be noted that where a player is listed as on the substitutes’ bench, he will not be considered as injured when reaching a decision on a work permit application. FIFA Rankings There are currently 204 international teams listed in the official FIFA world rankings. Those countries which have regularly achieved a 70th placing or higher over a period of two years are regarded as nations who have competed regularly at a highly competitive international level and have players of the highest standard who have contributed consistently to the achievement of that world ranking. The sports and entertainments team, Border and Immigration Agency, will produce the aggregated two-year rankings list on a monthly basis when the official FIFA world rankings are published and those countries ranked 70th or above meet the criterion. If clubs have any queries about the rankings they should contact the sports and entertainments team, Border and Immigration Agency. Length of issue Work permits will be issued for the period of the player’s contract, up to a maximum of five years. Extension Applications Where the permit approval is about to expire and the player meets the criteria outlined above for initial applications If a club wishes to retain the services of a player, they should submit a new application before the work permit expires. If the work permit criteria are satisfied, a permit will be issued for the period of a player’s contract, up to a maximum of five years. Where the permit approval is about to expire and the player does not meet the criteria for initial applications Where an application does not meet the criteria, then a club may request that it be considered by a panel. Changes during the period of approval Change of employment A club wishing to sign a player from another UK club must submit an application to the sports and entertainments team, Border and Immigration Agency. If the work permit criteria are satisfied, a permit will be issued for the period of a player’s contract, up to a maximum of five years. Loans If a player is moving to another club on loan then the new club must make a fresh application before the player can play for them. If the player does not meet the criteria and the club have requested a panel, the panel will be arranged. Contract changes or re-negotiation during the period of approval Where a club wishes to re-negotiate a player’s contract to improve his conditions and/or salary or length of contract part-way through their approval period, the club should submit a change of employment application (or extension application if the contract period changes). If the criteria are met, the application will be processed. If the criteria are not met: Where the player’s initial contract was for 12 months or longer and the club have requested a panel, the Border and Immigration Agency’s sports and entertainments team will consult with the governing bodies by email. They will ask whether the application needs to be considered at a panel. If the governing bodies recommend unanimously they are satisfied that the changes do not need to be considered by a panel, then the case can be processed without one. If any of the governing bodies have concerns with a particular application, a panel will be arranged. See section below on Panels. Where a player’s initial contract was for less than 12 months and the club have requested a panel, it will be arranged as normal. Salary Clubs do not need to include details of a player’s salary in the work permit application. Trials Arrangements Work permits will not be issued to clubs for the purpose of having players to trial them. Clubs may wish to approach the Home Office Enquiry Bureau for further information should they wish to consider taking a non-EEA player on trial. International Transfer Windows Work permits may be applied for by clubs at any time and will be considered against the criteria as above. Clubs should take into consideration the fact that a work permit, once issued, must be used within 6 months otherwise it becomes invalid. Consultation The sports and entertainments team, Border and Immigration Agency, will not normally consult with the football governing bodies on individual applications unless a panel is required. Panels Where an application does not meet the published criteria, a club may request a panel to consider the player’s skills and experience. In these cases the sports and entertainments team, Border and Immigration Agency, will refer the club's evidence to an independent panel. Where possible the club’s supporting evidence will be sent to the governing bodies in advance for their consideration in order to allow an informed decision. The panel will normally consist of representatives from the relevant football governing bodies together with up to three independent experts. The panel's terms of reference are: To consider whether the player is of the highest calibre To consider whether the player is able to contribute significantly to the development of the game at the top level in UK. The panel will make a recommendation to the Border and Immigration Agency whose decision will then be relayed to the club. Full terms of reference and roles of the panel members and the club are available to attendees. Clubs should note that, in respect of any application, there will only be one panel available (i.e. a panel and recommendation, followed by a decision). A club should therefore ensure that all evidence it wishes to present in support of its application is presented to the panel. If the club has previously made an application that was unsuccessful at panel a further panel cannot be requested for the same player during the season. For these purposes a season is deemed to run from 01 June until 31 May. Further information This criteria sheet should be used in conjunction with the Sports and Entertainments Guidance for Employers when making a work permit application. The above general criteria for work permit applications under the Sports and Entertainment criteria are available in the booklet ‘Applying for a Sports and Entertainment Work Permit - Guidance for Employers’. These can be viewed on the website http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk or are available in paper form from the distribution centre telephone 0117 344 1471 between 9am and 5pm Monday to Friday. For more information contact : Border and Immigration Agency Sports and Entertainments Team PO Box 3468 Sheffield S3 8WA Tel: 0114 274 3303 Fax: 0114 274 3003 Email: ents.workpermits@ind.homeoffice.gsi.gov.… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Or Bailey was misinformed? He's usually spot on TBF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 The fact he has played and paid tax in this country for the past 5 years should count for something... no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 So I'm assuming he will not be able to sign for any other club in the UK, then? hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 The fact he has played and paid tax in this country for the past 5 years should count for something... no? no, not unless he meets the criteria above.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 no, not unless he meets the criteria above.... So, say brum had extended his contract we could have "loaned" him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 So, say brum had extended his contract we could have "loaned" him? Loans If a player is moving to another club on loan then the new club must make a fresh application before the player can play for them. If the player does not meet the criteria and the club have requested a panel, the panel will be arranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 He's usually spot on TBF. Yeah I don't doubt that S-Clarke, but I'm not sure I'd jump to the conspiracy conclusion immediately. I guess if Raidi turns up playing for an English league team then there may be something to the "saving face" angle. Otherwise I think I'll believe that everything was agreed but the WP stopped the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Starting to think that is the case yeah' date=' [b']but lying to the fans this early on is not good, [/b]especially if he signs for another club next week! We have had enough of false promises and smoke screens in the past. I was hoping the new regime would atleast give us honesty so I will not be happy if this is a covering story. They have given you honesty ffs, they haven't commented..! Other sources have... you sure don't live up to your username. Duuuh...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Knew we should have built it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 As pointed out on the other thread, he is an ex international applying to play in the 3rd level of the league system - its probably not enough points on the visa/permit form. Might stand a good chance on appeals if a precedent could be found. I suspect that the view might be there are enough suitably qualified players from UK and EU who might match the criteria to play at that level without the need to import someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 (edited) The guy captained Tunisia to the quarter-finals of the Africa Cup of Nations in 2008 for christ sake (i.e. it seems he's played in 75% of games for which he has been available in the past two years). Tunisia on the work permit criteria "compete regularly at a highly competitive international level" as they are ranked 49 in the world by FIFA (i.e. they are within the top 70). Would love to hear where and how he doesnt pass muster. Edited 6 August, 2009 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 THIS is the important bit of the (nicely found) legal stuff above, the appeal process after the bog-standard and usually rejected initial Work Permit application : Panels Where an application does not meet the published criteria, a club may request a panel to consider the player’s skills and experience. In these cases the sports and entertainments team, Border and Immigration Agency, will refer the club's evidence to an independent panel. Where possible the club’s supporting evidence will be sent to the governing bodies in advance for their consideration in order to allow an informed decision. The panel will normally consist of representatives from the relevant football governing bodies together with up to three independent experts. The panel's terms of reference are: To consider whether the player is of the highest calibre To consider whether the player is able to contribute significantly to the development of the game at the top level in UK. The panel will make a recommendation to the Border and Immigration Agency whose decision will then be relayed to the club. Pretty sure that's how we got Pahars in, the application gets rejected, you appeal, it gets considered by a panel. I should think there's plenty of grounds for a Jaidi appeal to be accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Looks like we can appeal to a 'Panel' and it may get approved because of his past record, however if it's not it looks like he wouldn't be able to stay in the UK at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 They have given you honesty ffs, they haven't commented..! Other sources have... you sure don't live up to your username. Duuuh...! They havent commented? No? So how do we know that the work permit has been refused? Where has the 'other sources' got their information from? ... ... ... The club! The club would have told your 'other sources' that the deal is off due to failure to obtain the work permit. My username is an in-house joke which you obviously are not aware of, not a dig at you, but I am not a lawyer. If it was due to a 'work permit' problem then fair enough, but if we see him running out in a Charlton shirt next season, or any other team in the UK for that matter, then, Im sorry, the 'work permit' excuse was obviously not the real reason. If he wanted more money and we were not prepared to pay that, then just say it. It would be respected more than if we found out it was just an excuse to save face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 THIS is the important bit of the (nicely found) legal stuff above, the appeal process after the bog-standard and usually rejected initial Work Permit application : Pretty sure that's how we got Pahars in, the application gets rejected, you appeal, it gets considered by a panel. I should think there's plenty of grounds for a Jaidi appeal to be accepted. I agree completely. He's patently not going to be available for Saturday, but it shouldn't be given up on, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draino76 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Relax; the appeal will be a shoe-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I'm not surprised by this though I don't believe it is anything more than the very short article states!! No work permit = we cannot sign him but neither can any other English club though appeals are often successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 The club are not lying about this, why would they? This isn't Lowe we're talking about. We offered Jaidi a contract. If his demands exceeded our offer to the point that we couldn't come to an agreement, I'm sure the club would have come out and said so. Markus has already said the club is going to be run as a business, which means financial prudency, and I for one agree with him. We aren't going to be splashing out wages on big time Charlies with big reputations, so there is no need for any cover up. Odd as it seems, I am sure this is just a work permit issue and nothing more sinister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Relax; the appeal will be a shoe-in. Even if it is, it looks like we're stuck with Lancashire for Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Cheers The9, as stated above, it does look as if we stand a good chance of appealing. What I want to hear now is the club saying "small blip, no worries, we are confident an appeal will solve this." If they do not bother appealing, then it is evident there are underlying reasons (i.e he was being too greedy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 Knew we should have built it. haha - nutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurleyBurley Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 By that criteria, if the same rules applied in the USA or Austrialia (I know they don't) people like Beckham and Fowler wouldn't be able to play, ridiculous - A player of high quality that will bring something to the development of younger players should be considered... Think what learning from an International captain centre back with experience of the Premier League and Championship could do for a young English centre backs (Lanchashire) game!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 They havent commented? No? So how do we know that the work permit has been refused? Where has the 'other sources' got their information from? ... ... ... The club! The club would have told your 'other sources' that the deal is off due to failure to obtain the work permit. My username is an in-house joke which you obviously are not aware of, not a dig at you, but I am not a lawyer. If it was due to a 'work permit' problem then fair enough, but if we see him running out in a Charlton shirt next season, or any other team in the UK for that matter, then, Im sorry, the 'work permit' excuse was obviously not the real reason. If he wanted more money and we were not prepared to pay that, then just say it. It would be respected more than if we found out it was just an excuse to save face. The Club have said diddly-squat about this transfer and you may not be used to a professional set up (because we've never had one before) but they do not/will not announce a signing until pen has been put to paper. Murty being a case in point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crouchie's Lawyer Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 The club are not lying about this, why would they? This isn't Lowe we're talking about. We offered Jaidi a contract. If his demands exceeded our offer to the point that we couldn't come to an agreement, I'm sure the club would have come out and said so. Markus has already said the club is going to be run as a business, which means financial prudency, and I for one agree with him. We aren't going to be splashing out wages on big time Charlies with big reputations, so there is no need for any cover up. Odd as it seems, I am sure this is just a work permit issue and nothing more sinister. Why would they? That I cannot answer definitively, but possibly because feel of fans getting annoyed that he has money but is not willing to spend it on something which is and has been glaringly required over the last few seasons. I completely agree that the club should be run as a business, otherwise we will end up like that smelly lot down the road. But Im sure many fans would say you get what you pay for and would be disappointed with us for not atleast meeting him halfway on his demands to secure the defender we require. The easy option would be to blame it on something which is out of our control, like a work permit issue. I dunno, it may just be the cynic in me, but on the face of it, he should have walked through the WP application as shown above so something doesnt seem right. Again, if they do not appeal it, it doesnt look right either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 I don't want to start a conspiracy theory here! It's possible I've been mis-informed as to the reason why Jaidi hadn't signed sooner. I wasn't made aware that obtaining a work permit would be an issue, more of a formality. Also, it was suggested that Jaidi was holding out for more money, but that doesn't appear to be the case, with Radhi having agreed to the contract on offer from the club. Unfortunately, it seems that the deal can't go through due to the work permit being rejected, but with his track record and experience, I'd like to think we could sign him after a successful appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 By that criteria, if the same rules applied in the USA or Austrialia (I know they don't) people like Beckham and Fowler wouldn't be able to play, ridiculous - A player of high quality that will bring something to the development of younger players should be considered... Think what learning from an International captain centre back with experience of the Premier League and Championship could do for a young English centre backs (Lanchashire) game!!!! Actually, many of the Super League Rugby League teams have had major problems with the UK Border Agency over work permits for their Australian and New Zealand imports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 6 August, 2009 Share Posted 6 August, 2009 If they do not bother appealing, then it is evident there are underlying reasons (i.e he was being too greedy) ...but apparently he's passed a medical and agreed terms... Or has he? Woooooo scooby doo moment.... I would assume if we do not bother appealing it will be because we have little or no chance of being successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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