Thedelldays Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 At both ends I know one or two posters have been banging te drum about the lack of width costing us. Derry in particular... I was not sure but last night I totally came round. I can see why lambert scored so many goals for them as they play with two very wide players. You could see early on that they would punish us down the wings melis should no way have stayed on as long as he did. Offers no width on any flank and gave the full back no protection what so ever I will ud my hands up about lallana, I thought he was very good playing off lambert but when he goes wide he is no way as effective we have the middle of the park sorted, Hammond and Morgan complement each other well but with Morgan you need width as he is always looking to spread the play and mix it up. Last night he could only really do this to our full backs who were but advanced enough to cause a real danger I hve not been as much as some here. Has this ben the case for a few games or was last night a one off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Width and pace. When they broke they did it with speed and purpose. But when we had a chance to break we were far to slow and clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysaint Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 I was well impressed with Jo Kuffor, be interesting to see if we could put together a L1 dream team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 The main lack we have is the players (James, Lallana, Harding, Mills) just don't want to get to the byline to cross the ball. They would rather hoist the ball in from 40 yards away and make it easier to defend. A ball coming away from goal is much harder to defend, but so much easier to attack. I just don't understand why, week after week, someone hasn't told them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ampersound Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Definitely our problem... we had lots of opportunity to get to the byeline for some crosses but as soon as we got to 25 yards we let fly. Its been like this for years!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Well yes, even us "happy clappers" have said that. However, we also appreciate that we couldn't rebuild the whole team in the time we had, so we are willing to wait and see who Pardew has brought in by the end of next summer before we start calling for his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 I agree with what you're saying DD. I said after the game last night, that lessons have to be learnt from how Rovers used the ball and attatcked us down the flanks - it's amazing how many problems this casued. Our right-side is the main issue. We will look a completley different team once we have Murty back and we loan in a proper out and out RM - imo this has to be a priority, we cannot continue to play out of position players on the right trying to fill the gap - let's just go out and buy a player for that position. On the left, i'd bring Holmes back - he's got natrual width and he showed that last season. He's not the fastest, but he's nto the slowest either, but one thing he did offer us last season was pure width - he hugged that touchline which is what we need. Mills seems to want to cut in alot, im not sure why that is as he has a good left foot...but IMO holmes should be being beased back into the team now. He was a star for Walsall in this league a year or 2 ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 (edited) I think anyone who has been regularly will tell you that has been the issue right from the start its so evident. Even Pardew at the fans forum admitted it was an issue - why hasn't it been addressed? I think because our squad of useless never have beens has swelled so much that we cant get anyone in until we get a few out so stuck with what we have. We will continue to struggle until its addressed - we may have to wait until January. Until we can cross the ball closer to the goalline we will not create much at all - pinging in crosses from 3-040 yards out will fail 90% of the time as the defenders get too much time to see it off. Edited 30 September, 2009 by Give it to Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Width and pace. When they broke they did it with speed and purpose. It wins games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 don't call me dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vershinin Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 What i find unbelievable yet again is how we surrendered another lead and lost the game with the opposing team attacking their own fans. It shouldn't make a difference but clearly with us it is. What we can do about it i don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bungle Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 I thought we put in more crosses, and dangerous ones, last night than we have in any game this season. Lloyd James in particular whipped some very dangerous balls in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Sorry Bungle, but for every one of James dangerous crosses there were another 5 which were useless. He seems to refuse to move any further forward than 30 yards out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 I thought we put in more crosses, and dangerous ones, last night than we have in any game this season. Lloyd James in particular whipped some very dangerous balls in. There were 3 or 4 - Lambert put one just over, 'scored' one, two went to the goalie. Does that not highlight our issue though that our main threat of crosses comes from the right-back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Would disagree about Harding not getting the byline, he has on many occasions this season done so & whipped in some great balls only for nobody to be in the 6 yard box. Murty was also good on the over lap. Lloyd James however, as good a crosser of the ball that he is just lumps it in from anywhere. Could not understand Holmes not coming on last night. Mellis was gash & should have come off a lot earlier than he did, but why Pardew didn't bring Holmes on who looked good when he came on against Carlisle on Saturday i don't know. Lallana is excellent behind Lambert, but as has already been posted when he goes out wide he's completly ineffective. Pards needs to find a way to build the team around both Lallana & Lambert whilst playing 2 up front. Having thought about this, the only way i see possible is to play a wing back formation with Lallana behind 2 strikers. Harding can easily do a wing back job at left back, not quite sure we have anybody to do it on the right though. Anyway, here goes... -----------------------Davis----------------------- ------------Thomas----Jaidi----Trottman----------- Murty---------------------------------------Harding ------------Hammond----------Schnerderlin--------- -----------------------Lallana---------------------- --------------Lambert----------Papa--------------- Not going to happen i suspect, but would like to see it given a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 I thought we put in more crosses, and dangerous ones, last night than we have in any game this season. Lloyd James in particular whipped some very dangerous balls in. Which sums it up, more crosses and still little return. Had those crosses come from the goal line I bet they would have had a better return. James didn't once get to the goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 James is a poor player and I have been saying it for ages. Time to bring back Glenn Hoddle, a manager that knows what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 James is a poor player and I have been saying it for ages. Time to bring back Glenn Hoddle, a manager that knows what he is doing. A manager that knows what he is doing as proved at Spurs and Wolves...oh yeah....all those clubs been queueing at his door since getting the sack. You really need some therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Which sums it up, more crosses and still little return. Had those crosses come from the goal line I bet they would have had a better return. James didn't once get to the goal line. There was no one out wide right covering him and he's not the quickest player ever, could have been in all sort of trouble if he kept hitting the byeline. Need to wingers out wide with Lallana just off Lambert, if we set the team out like that we'd be fine and the full backs would have more cover so they could get into more advanced areas. Mellis and Lallana just aren't cut out to play on the wing. I think Waigo is more of a striker than a winger as well although it might just take him a while to get settled in before we see his best performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 At both ends I know one or two posters have been banging te drum about the lack of width costing us. Derry in particular... I was not sure but last night I totally came round. I can see why lambert scored so many goals for them as they play with two very wide players. You could see early on that they would punish us down the wings melis should no way have stayed on as long as he did. Offers no width on any flank and gave the full back no protection what so ever I will ud my hands up about lallana, I thought he was very good playing off lambert but when he goes wide he is no way as effective we have the middle of the park sorted, Hammond and Morgan complement each other well but with Morgan you need width as he is always looking to spread the play and mix it up. Last night he could only really do this to our full backs who were but advanced enough to cause a real danger I hve not been as much as some here. Has this ben the case for a few games or was last night a one off I agree with you width is the problem I think Harding is very good he didnt play well last night but you have to say fair play to there winger who played well I think we are ok at left back & also ok at right back when Murty is back. For me the problem is wide midfield players if we provided the sort of crosses that Rovers supplied last night Lambert would get loads of goals. We have the best striker in the league & are feeding him scraps at this level if you pay a million quid for a player you have to play to his strengths and we are not. Very happy with the rest of the team back four sorted when Murty is fit very good centre back pairing, centre midfield sorted I am well happy with Morgan & Hammond, lambert up front quality. Please AP get someone in to provide the width & we will do well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 James is a poor player and I have been saying it for ages. Time to bring back Glenn Hoddle, a manager that knows what he is doing. Please, kill yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 The main lack we have is the players (James, Lallana, Harding, Mills) just don't want to get to the byline to cross the ball. They would rather hoist the ball in from 40 yards away and make it easier to defend. A ball coming away from goal is much harder to defend, but so much easier to attack. I just don't understand why, week after week, someone hasn't told them. totally agree the issue for me last night was not getting to the byeline, we did that loads of times, it was why we checked back out and played it backwards for the cross to come in from a deep area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Anyway, here goes... -----------------------Davis----------------------- ------------Thomas----Jaidi----Trottman----------- Murty---------------------------------------Harding ------------Hammond----------Schnerderlin--------- -----------------------Lallana---------------------- --------------Lambert----------Papa--------------- Not going to happen i suspect, but would like to see it given a go. Great lineup but you're right, won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 I was well impressed with Jo Kuffor, be interesting to see if we could put together a L1 dream team. Took a Rovers supporting mate to the game last night who told me Kuffor's song is: (to the tune of Que Sera Sera) Jo Kuffor, Kuffor He's only Four foot Four His c ock drags on the floor Jo Kuffor, Kuffor Made me chuckle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Would disagree about Harding not getting the byline, he has on many occasions this season done so & whipped in some great balls only for nobody to be in the 6 yard box. Murty was also good on the over lap. Lloyd James however, as good a crosser of the ball that he is just lumps it in from anywhere. Could not understand Holmes not coming on last night. Mellis was gash & should have come off a lot earlier than he did, but why Pardew didn't bring Holmes on who looked good when he came on against Carlisle on Saturday i don't know. Lallana is excellent behind Lambert, but as has already been posted when he goes out wide he's completly ineffective. Pards needs to find a way to build the team around both Lallana & Lambert whilst playing 2 up front. Having thought about this, the only way i see possible is to play a wing back formation with Lallana behind 2 strikers. Harding can easily do a wing back job at left back, not quite sure we have anybody to do it on the right though. Anyway, here goes... -----------------------Davis----------------------- ------------Thomas----Jaidi----Trottman----------- Murty---------------------------------------Harding ------------Hammond----------Schnerderlin--------- -----------------------Lallana---------------------- --------------Lambert----------Papa--------------- Not going to happen i suspect, but would like to see it given a go. Murty won't have enough in the tank to get up and down like that. The risk is that if the wingbacks don't constantly get forward, we'll be even narrower than we currently are. For Gillingham, I would like to see the following, with Schneiderlin slightly behind Hammond in the Safri role. -----------------------Davis----------------------- -----James------Jaidi----Trottman--------Harding ------------------------------------------------------ ----Papa-----Hammond---Schneiderlin----Holmes ------------------------Lallana----------------------- -----------------------Lambert---------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Murty won't have enough in the tank to get up and down like that. The risk is that if the wingbacks don't constantly get forward, we'll be even narrower than we currently are. For Gillingham, I would like to see the following, with Schneiderlin slightly behind Hammond in the Safri role. -----------------------Davis----------------------- -----James------Jaidi----Trottman--------Harding ------------------------------------------------------ ----Papa-----Hammond---Schneiderlin----Holmes ------------------------Lallana----------------------- -----------------------Lambert---------------------- Thomas at right back and you have a half decent team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 (edited) Thomas at right back and you have a half decent team. Definitely if Thomas has recovered from injury. And ultimately Murty. Edited 30 September, 2009 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stmaxx Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 The main lack we have is the players (James, Lallana, Harding, Mills) just don't want to get to the byline to cross the ball. They would rather hoist the ball in from 40 yards away and make it easier to defend. A ball coming away from goal is much harder to defend, but so much easier to attack. I just don't understand why, week after week, someone hasn't told them. exactly why can't we just get to the by line and cross the ball, we have in lambert a quality striker but he needs service its not rocket science is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Would disagree about Harding not getting the byline, he has on many occasions this season done so & whipped in some great balls only for nobody to be in the 6 yard box. Murty was also good on the over lap. Lloyd James however, as good a crosser of the ball that he is just lumps it in from anywhere. Could not understand Holmes not coming on last night. Mellis was gash & should have come off a lot earlier than he did, but why Pardew didn't bring Holmes on who looked good when he came on against Carlisle on Saturday i don't know. Lallana is excellent behind Lambert, but as has already been posted when he goes out wide he's completly ineffective. Pards needs to find a way to build the team around both Lallana & Lambert whilst playing 2 up front. Having thought about this, the only way i see possible is to play a wing back formation with Lallana behind 2 strikers. Harding can easily do a wing back job at left back, not quite sure we have anybody to do it on the right though. Anyway, here goes... -----------------------Davis----------------------- ------------Thomas----Jaidi----Trottman----------- Murty---------------------------------------Harding ------------Hammond----------Schnerderlin--------- -----------------------Lallana---------------------- --------------Lambert----------Papa--------------- Not going to happen i suspect, but would like to see it given a go. Exactly what I had proposed on another thread yesterday or Monday. At the time, the debate was about where Lallana could be accommodated. On the evidence of yesterday, I can see that he certainly seems to be forging a useful partnership with Lambert. When I suggested it, Thomas and Murty not being available, I had proposed a back three of Trotman, Jaidi and Harding. The wing backs from those available would have been James and Mills/Holmes. Last night, we did play with some width, as we were often forced into it by Rover's width. One side effect was that at least we did manage more crosses from the byeline than normal.It was a refreshing change when I am used to observing that often these past couple of seasons, the play is concentrated into two thirds of the pitch. Also as a result of the width, there was scope for some decent passing in triangles between the midfielders, defence and attack. The difference between their wide players and ours is exactly as has been described by others; they have pace and attack fast and wide, whereas we take too long to get the ball into danger areas, allowing them to track back and defend in depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adelfas31 Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 I agree that Lallana is working well off Lambert. He looks comfortable in a central role where his movement causes real problems. But, he is not a finisher. Mellis clearly has great talent but he just doesn't want to be out wide. He seldom gave Harding options and got in Lallana's way a number of times by drifting inside. He also consistently failed to track back in support of Harding. Scheiderlin hits a lovely 40 yard ball, but he does it from wher it's easy - deep and in space and it doesn't hurt anyone. That's three very talented players we have at this level, but none of them are playing clearlt defined roles that they are expert at or that cause real trouble. It is Pardew's job to try to make sense of this talent. 4-5-1 at Carlisle and 4-2-3-1 last night didn't do it. What else should he try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 I said it all last season and nothing has changed. We do not have a left and right midfielder at the club worth his salt. Those tha do get a game ther just never get to the byeline...ever. Why on earth not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringwood Posted 30 September, 2009 Share Posted 30 September, 2009 Lallana had his best game last night when in and around Lambert, midfield is still Spiderman and Hammond, back four yes thats sorted Thomas,or Murty , Jadhi, Trottman and Harding, so we just need to sort two places. Melias isn't it, he's indisclipine costs us, we need width and pace or at least width and tracking back in support. Kelvin's kicking needs sorting as well, same ball easily returned, last night felt we needed Gillett at 20mins to go to fire up the pace in midfield, we allowed then to step up and play when we should of been hustling and harrying Holmes is the only one I think is ready for this league, Waigo not convinced yet, at times the ball bounced off him other times first touch seemed perfect, maybe pace isn't the answer, more the intelligence to play the ball and when to hold it, yes fast front to back is good quick on the break yes good as well, but sustained pressure by winning second balls would win us points more than pace alone. so perhaps we need a list of wingers, not the quickest but genuine width and then make sure Pardew sees it, and also get one of his coaches sat in either Chapel or Northam and actually report to Pardew whats going on, the view from the touchline is pretty restricted and to affect the game its no good watching the video afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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