St Marco Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 http://www.4thegame.com/statistics/league-one/tables/currentform.html Just 2 points from the top team. Think it is safe to say some people over reacted Well done Pardew and the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Off the back of just 2 consecutive wins and you say other people are over-reacting?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 We HAVE to keep this form going. This club is finally showing the potential it has. The future will be bright if managed well. Come on boys, surely, after 5 years of sh*te it is our time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 9 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Off the back of just 2 consecutive wins and you say other people are over-reacting?!? It is not the back of 2 consecutive wins (it is 3 actually) it is a collective amount of results that matter. We have gone from a pretty slow start to improve nearly week after week. People complained about we were not scoring goals and we have just gone on to post the joint most scored goals in the past 6 games. People complained we were not getting points when we have got 11 from the last 6 games, just 2 points from top and nearly averaging 2 points a game. People complained Papa was crap and he has now scored 2 goals and set up 2. etc etc The point is people wanted the team to do better, they have now done better. People should praise that change around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 If it is 3 wins... How does JPT games count in a league form table ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Good news still a little tentative however, but just feels tonight that at long last we may just may have finally turned the corner. However we need to keep this good run going to instil the positive winning attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 9 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 October, 2009 If it is 3 wins... How does JPT games count in a league form table ? Nah they don't use the cup game in the form guide. Was just pointing out it is not 2 wins in a row it is 3. Sure it was against a team who are a league below us but how many times have we lost to a team in a league below us in recent years? It is not a game that should be ingored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Nah they don't use the cup game in the form guide. Was just pointing out it is not 2 wins in a row it is 3. Sure it was against a team who are a league below us but how many times have we lost to a team in a league below us in recent years? It is not a game that should be ingored. You are right. Others could say that we needed penalties to beat the 2nd worst team in England at home. Let's just worry about te league and what our first 11ish players can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 You are right. Others could say that we needed penalties to beat the 2nd worst team in England at home. Let's just worry about te league and what our first 11ish players can do The team that finished 2nd bottom of League 2 won the competition last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Nah they don't use the cup game in the form guide. Was just pointing out it is not 2 wins in a row it is 3. Sure it was against a team who are a league below us but how many times have we lost to a team in a league below us in recent years? It is not a game that should be ingored. Not a good performance Against Torquay but as you say how many times in the last few years have we lost these games, & given up at 0-2 down. As said not a great performance but a good confidence building performance, which is what we need at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 The team that finished 2nd bottom of League 2 won the competition last season. Didn't Luton have a very large points deduction and were actually decent last year? Seriously. I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy_Saint Posted 9 October, 2009 Share Posted 9 October, 2009 Christ can you imagine getting 30 pts deducted!! Some of these FA laws are just criminal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 You are right. Others could say that we needed penalties to beat the 2nd worst team in England at home. Let's just worry about te league and what our first 11ish players can do But we still won and we came back from 2 goals down. 3 wins on the trot does no make a summer, but at least we have something to feel positive about and maybe it will stop some of those pointless threads musing about at which point we should sack Pardew for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 Well southend fans rate us. ''At the end of the day Southampton are a Championship side and play like one, their movement, ball control and passing was amazing to watch and they knew we couldn't play at their pace so they hounded our guys as soon as we had the ball resulting in long balls in hope'' blimey. haven't read oppo views like that in what feels like decades. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 Well southend fans rate us. ''At the end of the day Southampton are a Championship side and play like one, their movement, ball control and passing was amazing to watch and they knew we couldn't play at their pace so they hounded our guys as soon as we had the ball resulting in long balls in hope'' blimey. haven't read oppo views like that in what feels like decades. Love it. Thats lovely to read. You tend to know things are getting better when you read an honest assesment from somebody who has no links or ties to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExSt Peter Saint Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 We need to be top of the form table for the rest of the season to start climbing the league towards a decent position. I'm hoping we can keep that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpb Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 We need to be top of the form table for the rest of the season to start climbing the league towards a decent position. I'm hoping we can keep that up. If it hadn't been for that last minute goal from Bristol Rovers, we would have been top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 http://www.4thegame.com/statistics/league-one/tables/currentform.html Just 2 points from the top team. Think it is safe to say some people over reacted Well done Pardew and the players Why take a snapshot when the full picture is available : Played - 12 Won - 3 Drawn - 6 Lost - 3 Goal Difference - (+) 2 Points - 15 (1.25 per game average) 1.25 points per game puts us on course to end up with 48 points this season taking the 10 point deduction into account - which is still (there or there abouts) relegation form . It goes without saying that if we can maintain the good form we have showed this week then that's a concern that need not worry us for very much longer . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 Why take a snapshot when the full picture is available : Played - 12 Won - 3 Drawn - 6 Lost - 3 Goal Difference - (+) 2 Points - 15 (1.25 per game average) 1.25 points per game puts us on course to end up with 48 points this season taking the 10 point deduction into account - which is still (there or there abouts) relegation form . It goes without saying that if we can maintain the good form we have showed this week then that's a concern that need not worry us for very much longer . That's a silly way of looking at it as there are numerous reasons why we have started the season slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 That's a silly way of looking at it as there are numerous reasons why we have started the season slowly. Not at all , it's a statistically accurate way of looking at it . "Just the facts mam" as they may well have said on 'Dragnet' many , many years ago . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 you know why not - its a totally different team and coaching set up from the start of the season. Loads to do but the last 6 is hugely more of an indication of how the season is likely to go than the points per game you are using Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 Not at all , it's a statistically accurate way of looking at it . "Just the facts mam" as they may well have said on 'Dragnet' many , many years ago . no more stat correct than just using last nights and saying we will therefore be chapmions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 Well it is what it is , unless I've got the numbers wrong somewhere ? The context has been extensively debated elsewhere . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 you know why not - its a totally different team and coaching set up from the start of the season. Loads to do but the last 6 is hugely more of an indication of how the season is likely to go than the points per game you are using You said as much a couple of weeks ago. Then we drew at carlise and lost at home to rovers I think I will keep my excitement in check for a few more weeks yet. We have won back to back league games. Nothing spectacular for this team in league 1. Now, if we go to Oldham and win then follow it up by beating MK Dons. Then I will totally agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 ok lets stick with just using the last game, 3 points per game - should make for pleasing season - or are my figures wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 You said as much a couple of weeks ago. Then we drew at carlise and lost at home to rovers I think I will keep my excitement in check for a few more weeks yet. We have won back to back league games. Nothing spectacular for this team in league 1. Now, if we go to Oldham and win then follow it up by beating MK Dons. Then I will totally agree with you my season starts thread (which will be updating after todays games) said climb current form table after each game - we have done so far. I am excited - its a good feeling - its the confidence that I will hold in check! I still think about 8th-11th is most likely - but play offs are achievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 ok lets stick with just using the last game, 3 points per game - should make for pleasing season - or are my figures wrong? 1 game is a better basis for analysis than 12 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 I think the last 6 or so if by far the best - its our current team with back room staff over a range of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 All right then I apologise for my blatant attempt to mislead and confuse the forum using facts , I'm a bad , bad boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westofshannonsaint Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 (it is 3 actually) sorry to point this out, but I think the history books will show the Torquay result as a 2-2 draw. but I am very happy that we have 2 league wins in a row & hope we can make it 3 against MK Dons who have won 3 and lost 3 of the last 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 As much as we would all like to. We can't dismiss the form of the first few games as it was all points dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 Nah they don't use the cup game in the form guide. Was just pointing out it is not 2 wins in a row it is 3. Sure it was against a team who are a league below us but how many times have we lost to a team in a league below us in recent years? It is not a game that should be ingored. Quite right. And we were terrible against Torquay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 As much as we would all like to. We can't dismiss the form of the first few games as it was all points dropped. At the same time we are a different proposition now than the first few weeks of the season. Hopefully we have progressed and are a stronger team. Pardew have been dealing with the problems as you would expect of any manger worth his salt to do and his reward is three wins in a week. Yes we still have a long way to go but I would rather look at our current form as an indictor of our future than our early season form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 10 October, 2009 Author Share Posted 10 October, 2009 sorry to point this out, but I think the history books will show the Torquay result as a 2-2 draw. but I am very happy that we have 2 league wins in a row & hope we can make it 3 against MK Dons who have won 3 and lost 3 of the last 6. No it wont.... It will show 2-2 (5-3ap). It was a cup game that could not end in a draw. In normal time of 90 mins it was a draw but the result was we won on penalties. It is like saying the european cup final in 05 between liverpool and milan was a draw. The point of the form guide is to show you how well your club is doing over a recent set of games in comparison to other teams. If you go back over the first 6 games of this season you had people talking about relegation, complaining about Pardew, give him until xmas etc etc The following 6 games things have turned around. If it wasen't for a goal that was a pure fluke in a magical 5 mins of injury time that should of been about 1m we would of been top, that is how close we were to it. You cant use a whole season as to your form as you will obviously do better some month's then others, every team goes through them. What matters is that the first 6 games were like our pre-season with things fitting into place and people being brought in. In that time people were jumping on Pardew's back, talking about how he wasted £1.7m etc.. I think the past 6 results show the potential of the team and show people were too quick to start with the negative threads of which this forum has had over recent weeks. It has to go the other way and those people have to do the reverse of what they did in those first 6 weeks now or in my book there point of view is based purely on personel preference, and will always remain that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 I'm now confused. Did we beat Torquay or was it a draw I have been told we infact won the 2nd leg CCC playoff at pride park. Despite putting the idea that we lost on penalties meaning we lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 For me the form guide is simple... without the -10 we would have 15 and be in approx 10th place - which is about on par with the the fact that we have been so inconsistent and n some games poor, yet clearly have some talent and a good game when we want it. The maths mean that we still need to improve quite a bit and be consistent to be safe from dropping again... BUt if we can get some momentum going oon the back of these wins and getting over that psychologucal hurdel of minus points we should do OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 All right then I apologise for my blatant attempt to mislead and confuse the forum using facts , I'm a bad , bad boy simple facts for you first game of the season we didn't have; Jaidi or Trotman - two very key defenders and first choices (both also have scored) Hammond - the gritty, CM player /leader we have been lacking for years - a captain by all accounts Lambert -the best CF, bar none, in the division - scoring regularly and great holding forward Papa -added pace, attacking flair - and 4 goals in 3 games Dean Wilkins/ Wally Downes http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/Management/0,,10280~1790796,00.html http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/Management/0,,10280~1753031,00.html There is using facts and then there is interpreting them and understanding them and selecting the right ones - which is where I think you are wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westofshannonsaint Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 (edited) No it wont.... It will show 2-2 (5-3ap). It was a cup game that could not end in a draw.. was the reason that penalties took place not because the game ended in a draw? has anyone who backed Saints to win (opposed to Saints progressing to the next round) been paid out? I am not trying to be negative and am really happy that we managed to win a penalty shootout, but the fact remains that if the game did not END in a draw there would have been no penalties. and I am not trying to say that our form is not good at the moment, i think it is & long may it continue. edit - had we lost the shoot-out I would imagine that people would get very agitated if "negative" posters counted it as a loss. Edited 10 October, 2009 by westofshannonsaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 As the "live" league table currently stands we are still 16 points from the playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 simple facts for you first game of the season we didn't have; Jaidi or Trotman - two very key defenders and first choices (both also have scored) Hammond - the gritty, CM player /leader we have been lacking for years - a captain by all accounts Lambert -the best CF, bar none, in the division - scoring regularly and great holding forward Papa -added pace, attacking flair - and 4 goals in 3 games Dean Wilkins/ Wally Downes http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/Management/0,,10280~1790796,00.html http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/Management/0,,10280~1753031,00.html There is using facts and then there is interpreting them and understanding them and selecting the right ones - which is where I think you are wrong I'm more than happy to accept that the preseason was massively disrupted - why wouldn't I ? it's the plain and simple truth after all . I'm less happy to accept that we're totally alone in that or that every other team in the league had their squads fully complete by game one either . In the final analysis it doesn't matter because it won't mean anything come next May when excuses quite literally don't count . I'm by nature against manipulating facts to suite a particular point of view or argument , I consider only counting our recent (better) results rather than the whole seasons effort to steer perilously close to that form of (mild) dishonesty to be frank . I must maintain that the facts/stats I employed in my post are quite raw and perfectly accurate as far as they go , although there are always deeper truths underlying any set of mere numbers . Nick my friend I'm sure there is one thing we can both agree on - last week saw a noticeable improvement in our fortunes and if AP and his team can sustain that welcome trend over the coming months we'll do well this season and everyone on here will be happy . ps - please don't take me so seriously , nobody else does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 I'm now confused. Did we beat Torquay or was it a draw It was a draw, and always will be. We socred the same number of goals as Torquay during the period of normal play, ergo we drew. However, the rules of the competition require that in the event of a draw the tie will be decided by penalties. Therefore history will show that we progressed to the next round and Torquay were eliminated due to the way that drawn games are decided. The result of the Torquay game though is quite irrelevant, it is league matches against teams in the same division that matter and the 6 match form quide, which does not include the Torquay game is a good indicator of how we have been doing lately. 6 game form guides have been used as such for donkeys years. The one stat that doesn't lie is that at the end of today we will be 24th in Division 3. But a form guide is not an indication of where we will finish in the league, just how well we have been doing of late and possibly how we might fare in our next match. Where we will finish in the league also takes into account factors such as how many points we obtained during the first 6 games which account for approx 12% of the total points available. You can read what you want into all these stats, and the glass half full team will read them one way, while the glass half empty brigade will look at them another way. We should all just take heart that we have won 2 league games in less than a week, both convincingly and one at home and one away. No-one could argue with that being a good thing and something to be happy and encouraged about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 10 October, 2009 Share Posted 10 October, 2009 Form has defo improved and that is great - lets hope it continues and we can start climbing the league. An assult on the play-offs is not out of the question. Cant imagine that there are many better squads in L1 and we can strenghen again in Jan. Lets try and all think positive and dream about the possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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