Give it time

[offix]

“Give It Time” is a phrase I have heard often on this board (and it’s predecessors) over the last 6 or 7 years;

 

Stuart Gray’s abysmal performance: “Give him some time, it’ll be all right”

 

When Wigley was appointed and failed miserably right from the start: “Give it time, he’ll get it right”

 

Burley and his moronic tactics, especially in his last season: “Give it time, it’s too early in the season. Let’s wait till December at least”

 

And now we have a new experiment of playing the young kids, led by a coach who has no experience in either English football or coaching at a level that is even close to that of the CCC, no manager and no official DoF, and again I see all these posts stating that we should give it time, and that 5 League matches is way too early too judge.

 

Did it not register with any of you that “giving it time” is what got us relegated? No matter what you think of Harry, by the time he was brought him in we already had such a bad team, that was in such bad shape, and in such a free-fall that there was no saving us any more. We ran out of time because we gave a failing manager too much of it.

 

Did any of you pay attention to what happened with Burley in his last season? We gave him time, way too much of it. By the time Pearson got his hands on the team the players were severely unfit, to call them unmotivated would be too friendly a word, and again the team was in such a performance free-fall that it is an absolute miracle that we didn’t get relegated.

 

So let’s not have so much of this “give it time, we will be all right” anymore, unless you are prepared to see this team relegated well before the season is over. If this experiment continues for 2 more months we will already be so far from safety that saving the club from relegation will be near impossible, no matter how much money (if we had any investment coming) could be thrown at the problem.

 

So please, don’t tell me in every other thread on here that “it will be all right”, and that you are “really impressed with Ru**rt”, or that ”the football is such a joy to watch and it is so pretty”.

 

Two more months of this experiment and we may well find ourselves solidly anchored at the bottom spot and with a points gap to safety that will be impossible to bridge.

 

If you want to "give it time", that is your right, and I respect that, but I hope that you realize that it is taking a gamble with the future of the club that we all love. I play poker as a semi-pro, and I know that you don't gamble if you want to win, you play the odds. If the odds are against you, you fold the hand and play the next one.

 

With this experiment the odds are against us. The longer it lasts, the harder it will be to get out of the resulting sh@te.

Edited 17 September, 2008 by offix

[alpine_saint]

Spot on.

 

To give things time, we need to see PROGRESS.

 

With every example you've cited, including the current experiment, we went BACKWARDS

[whizzpop]

What would be your alternative then Offix? Excluding Pearson and Hoddle as they are and should be out of the equation.

[Guest Hacienda]

In footballing terms we've moved on no ends from last season and I really enjoy the football that we try to play. That said, it's not going to be enough this season.

 

From seeing the Cheltenham game I've said we were short of goals, the full back issue would bite us in the @rse and than we were to lightweight in the central midfield positions.

 

I've seen nowt to change my mind since then and Iv'e always felt that Lowe's gamble, although I applaud the idea of a home grown team, will lead to his overseeing our second relegation.

[warsash saint]

With no money to bring in an experienced manager or buy/loan in new players, please can you provide an alternative :smt102

[JustMike]

no defenders..no decent holding midfielders and a weak strike force. theres the spine of the team gone...no chance.

 

Unless something drastic happens, get used to looking over our shoulders at L1

[Nutwood2]

Looking forward to your billion pounds investment Offix! Get real.

[JustMike]

With no money to bring in an experienced manager or buy/loan in new players, please can you provide an alternative :smt102

 

yet RL and MW manage to get paid..alot.

[offix]

What would be your alternative then Offix? Excluding Pearson and Hoddle as they are and should be out of the equation.

 

I am fully aware of the financial restrictions that we have to operate under and that our options may be limited, but (at least in my mind) it is also clear that this current experiment leads to only one thing: relegation. A consequence of relegation would be even tighter finances, if not administration.

 

So instead of spending the salary on 4 "coaches" (Poortvliet, Wotte, Hockaday and the new Dutch guy) what about spending the salary of these 4 inexperienced guys on one experienced hard-nosed real old-fashioned manager?

 

What about the three main shareholders actually getting together in a REAL effort to attract investment? In-fighting amongst the various parties only has one effect on potential investors; It's scares them off, as proven in recent history.

 

What about respecting the supporters and stopping the incessant and blatant propaganda exercises such at the recent "question and answer" session in the Echo, which was clearly designed to only answer those questions that were "convenient" for Ru**rt and his side-kick, and showed a total and utter disrespect for the fans and insulted their intelligence. Maybe, just maybe, IF the club were more open and honest some more folks would come and watch, thus creating more income.

 

These are just some of the options open to the club. I'll grant you that none of them guarantee success, or even improvement, but if we let things go the way they are, there is an almost certain guarantee of failure.

[offix]

Looking forward to your billion pounds investment Offix! Get real.

 

If it took a billion pounds to run a CCC club there would be no CCC. Get real yourself

[Nutwood2]

If it took a billion pounds to run a CCC club there would be no CCC. Get real yourself

 

I was being a tad facitious of course. A few million might be good if you could manage that!

[offix]

I was being a tad facitious of course. A few million might be good if you could manage that!

 

Again, you are the one that needs to get real. With only a very few exceptions the CCC consists of clubs that are very similar to us, that do not have a "rich uncle", and have similar or even smaller attendances. None of them have it easy, but ALL of them manage to not only survive - they even out-perform us on and off the field as illustrated by our league position. Bottom line is that it does not REQUIRE millions of pounds of investment to survive in the CCC (although it would be nice to have those millions), it requires smart management and a unified board with unified shareholders.

[saintbletch]

I am fully aware of the financial restrictions that we have to operate under and that our options may be limited, but (at least in my mind) it is also clear that this current experiment leads to only one thing: relegation. A consequence of relegation would be even tighter finances, if not administration.

 

So instead of spending the salary on 4 "coaches" (Poortvliet, Wotte, Hockaday and the new Dutch guy) what about spending the salary of these 4 inexperienced guys on one experienced hard-nosed real old-fashioned manager?

 

What about the three main shareholders actually getting together in a REAL effort to attract investment? In-fighting amongst the various parties only has one effect on potential investors; It's scares them off, as proven in recent history.

 

What about respecting the supporters and stopping the incessant and blatant propaganda exercises such at the recent "question and answer" session in the Echo, which was clearly designed to only answer those questions that were "convenient" for Ru**rt and his side-kick, and showed a total and utter disrespect for the fans and insulted their intelligence. Maybe, just maybe, IF the club were more open and honest some more folks would come and watch, thus creating more income.

 

These are just some of the options open to the club. I'll grant you that none of them guarantee success, or even improvement, but if we let things go the way they are, there is an almost certain guarantee of failure.

 

I hope I've got you right here, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but in answer to what is your alternative to the current setup, you've identified:

 

1) Compensate 4 coaches by paying out their contract in full

2) Convince an experienced hard-nosed coach to come work with a team that now has no real assets - 5 games into the season - without the benefit of a pre-season - with no money - sitting bottom of the league - with a squad of youngsters

3) Hope really really hard that we can find investment by the main sharefolders declaring some sort of truce.

4) and the last thing that will help us climb the league is for the club to be more honest.

 

In my humble opinion this is not a set of real, workable alternatives. This is a list of your biggest gripes with the club.

 

If I'd read this at the end of last season, I couldn't have faulted it as a "valid" plan for the coming season.

 

But we are where we are, the die is cast, we have made changes and commitments to our bank and the plan is going to be executed.

 

Don't fundamentally disagree with your view of what is needed, just how unrealistic I think you're being.

[Nutwood2]

Again, you are the one that needs to get real. With only a very few exceptions the CCC consists of clubs that are very similar to us, that do not have a "rich uncle", and have similar or even smaller attendances. None of them have it easy, but ALL of them manage to not only survive - they even out-perform us on and off the field as illustrated by our league position. Bottom line is that it does not REQUIRE millions of pounds of investment to survive in the CCC (although it would be nice to have those millions), it requires smart management and a unified board with unified shareholders.

 

So, can you explain exactly what is wrong with the current management team?

[offix]

I hope I've got you right here, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but in answer to what is your alternative to the current setup, you've identified:

 

1) Compensate 4 coaches by paying out their contract in full

2) Convince an experienced hard-nosed coach to come work with a team that now has no real assets - 5 games into the season - without the benefit of a pre-season - with no money - sitting bottom of the league - with a squad of youngsters

3) Hope really really hard that we can find investment by the main sharefolders declaring some sort of truce.

4) and the last thing that will help us climb the league is for the club to be more honest.

 

In my humble opinion this is not a set of real, workable alternatives. This is a list of your biggest gripes with the club.

 

If I'd read this at the end of last season, I couldn't have faulted it as a "valid" plan for the coming season.

 

But we are where we are, the die is cast, we have made changes and commitments to our bank and the plan is going to be executed.

 

Don't fundamentally disagree with your view of what is needed, just how unrealistic I think you're being.

 

I completely understand what you are saying. As I said; I understand that we have very few options left, given the situation we are in. I realize that the few options left may or may not have any discernible effect. However, doing nothing cannot be an option either.

Edited 17 September, 2008 by offix

[slickmick]

A win tonight and we are only 3 points behind Bristol City who have only lost once this season.

So why the panick ??

[MongoNeil]

yet RL and MW manage to get paid..alot.

 

I'm guessing from your post that if your employer was facing financial difficulty you'd be happy to take a pay cut then? Besides, does anyone actually know the individual salaries of the directors, I don't think so.

[Scummer]

Does anyone actually know the individual salaries of the directors, I don't think so.

 

Some people must do, and I'm amazed that they haven't leaked out into the public domain actually.

 

All shareholders have the right to go to the company's registered office and look at the director's contracts.

[John B]

In footballing terms we've moved on no ends from last season and I really enjoy the football that we try to play. That said, it's not going to be enough this season.

 

From seeing the Cheltenham game I've said we were short of goals, the full back issue would bite us in the @rse and than we were to lightweight in the central midfield positions.

 

I've seen nowt to change my mind since then and Iv'e always felt that Lowe's gamble, although I applaud the idea of a home grown team, will lead to his overseeing our second relegation.

 

You are probably right it always was going to be a hard struggle why people were so optimistic about our final league position I dont understand.

 

I am certain the team will improve but it does not help with all the negative stuff on this forum.

 

We are where we are no money and a young inexperienced team lets give them our support and see what happens.

 

We cannot suddenly conjure up experienced players.

 

But surely our luck will change with better application.

 

Giving a goal away at Cardiff by not playing to the whistle

 

Giving a stupid penalty against Blackpool

 

Getting sent off at QPR these will probably not happen again but have cost us points

It is the lack of goals which is causing the problem I think so why not change to 4 4 2

Edited 17 September, 2008 by John B

[Guest Hacienda]

A win tonight and we are only 3 points behind Bristol City who have only lost once this season.

So why the panick ??

 

If we win.

[John B]

Some people must do, and I'm amazed that they haven't leaked out into the public domain actually.

 

All shareholders have the right to go to the company's registered office and look at the director's contracts.

 

I dont see what director's salaries has to do with anything.

 

Wilde Lowe Cowen etc seem to be doing a decent job within the constaints we find our selves.

[offix]

So, can you explain exactly what is wrong with the current management team?

 

You already know the answers, but I'll give you my OPINION:

 

- We have essentially been asset-stripped by the current management (something we feared SISU might do, remember?). Our most valuable assets, the few good players we had, have been sold (and even the agreed upon price has been reduced by taking early payouts, for instance in the Walcott case). Left with only inexperienced players survival would be a miracle, and those reduced payouts meant that we had fewer funds to buy/attract suitable replacements.

- The selection of coaches has been dictated by short-term (and short-sighted) financial "management", which may show on the books as a financial improvement in the short term, but guarantees larger loss of income in the future as the result of another relegation.

- There is no single shred of evidence that ALL parties (board, shareholders) are making ANY effort to unite and agree upon some kind of planned direction for the future, which is needed to even get the slightest bit of interest from any potential investor

- The customers are treated with disrespect, which at a minimum is no way to attract the public in greater numbers.

 

Remember, this is my opinion. I realize many may disagree, but such is life.

[John B]

Again, you are the one that needs to get real. With only a very few exceptions the CCC consists of clubs that are very similar to us, that do not have a "rich uncle", and have similar or even smaller attendances. None of them have it easy, but ALL of them manage to not only survive - they even out-perform us on and off the field as illustrated by our league position. Bottom line is that it does not REQUIRE millions of pounds of investment to survive in the CCC (although it would be nice to have those millions), it requires smart management and a unified board with unified shareholders.

 

I agree and unified fans.

 

Unfortunately we were a Premiership Club for 25 years and as such had significantly more expenditure which Lowe and Wilde are trying to address.

 

If this had been done earlier we would of course been in a better position.

[Guest Hacienda]

I dont see what director's salaries has to do with anything.

 

Wilde Lowe Cowen etc seem to be doing a decent job within the constaints we find our selves.

 

The irony being, to me, that it's their mismanagement that have led to these restraints.

 

Restraints which have us bottom of the table.

[John B]

The irony being, to me, that it's their mismanagement that have led to these restraints.

 

Restraints which have us bottom of the table.

 

Yes you are right it is the Wilde/Hone/Crouch era that has caused the problem but that does not really help harking back to the past.

 

 

If we did not cut our costs we would be in Administration that is the real situation as I see it.

 

Lowe is not assett stripping he is using assests to service our debts.

[offix]

I agree and unified fans.

 

Unfortunately we were a Premiership Club for 25 years and as such had significantly more expenditure which Lowe and Wilde are trying to address.

 

If this had been done earlier we would of course been in a better position.

 

Exactly right. And the people who were in a position to address it at the time are the same 2 who are now in charge. That's not really a confidence builder, is it?

[Toomer]

A win tonight and we are only 3 points behind Bristol City who have only lost once this season.

So why the panick ??

 

 

A win tonight TBH can you see it, I have said we will win 2 - 1 more in hope than anything.

[John B]

Exactly right. And the people who were in a position to address it at the time are the same 2 who are now in charge. That's not really a confidence builder, is it?

 

Sorry Lowe was not in charge when the parachute payments were ending.

 

but I agree Wilde was as well as Hone and Crouch.

 

 

Lowe would never have let the wage bill spiral he reduced it in the first season when we released numerous highly paid players

 

But this is only harking back to the past.

[Johnny Shearer]

Where would you draw the line on 'Giving it time' though? Now? 5 games? 10 games? 15games?

 

How much damage would be caused if a new set-up came in? Too many changes last season didnt help our cause and it wont againt his season.

 

Dont get me wrong Saints are in for a slog of a season. Many ups and downs to come yet. Just seems like many people want instant success, not just here but at many other clubs also.

[whizzpop]

I feel your pain Offix, but you say get an old fashioned hard nosed type manager - who? It hasn't worked with us before with Redknapp and the only old fashioned ones out there within our means would be people like..

 

Joe Royle

Bruce Rioch

Howard Wilkinson

George Graham

John Gregory

Brian Little

Bryan Robson

Howard Kendall

Lawrie Sanchez?

 

None of these would change anything, and most of them are yesterdays manager.

[Mr X]

“Give It Time” is a phrase I have heard often on this board (and it’s predecessors) over the last 6 or 7 years;

 

Stuart Gray’s abysmal performance: “Give him some time, it’ll be all right”

 

When Wigley was appointed and failed miserably right from the start: “Give it time, he’ll get it right”

 

Burley and his moronic tactics, especially in his last season: “Give it time, it’s too early in the season. Let’s wait till December at least”

 

And now we have a new experiment of playing the young kids, led by a coach who has no experience in either English football or coaching at a level that is even close to that of the CCC, no manager and no official DoF, and again I see all these posts stating that we should give it time, and that 5 League matches is way too early too judge.

 

Did it not register with any of you that “giving it time” is what got us relegated? No matter what you think of Harry, by the time he was brought him in we already had such a bad team, that was in such bad shape, and in such a free-fall that there was no saving us any more. We ran out of time because we gave a failing manager too much of it.

 

Did any of you pay attention to what happened with Burley in his last season? We gave him time, way too much of it. By the time Pearson got his hands on the team the players were severely unfit, to call them unmotivated would be too friendly a word, and again the team was in such a performance free-fall that it is an absolute miracle that we didn’t get relegated.

 

So let’s not have so much of this “give it time, we will be all right” anymore, unless you are prepared to see this team relegated well before the season is over. If this experiment continues for 2 more months we will already be so far from safety that saving the club from relegation will be near impossible, no matter how much money (if we had any investment coming) could be thrown at the problem.

 

So please, don’t tell me in every other thread on here that “it will be all right”, and that you are “really impressed with Ru**rt”, or that ”the football is such a joy to watch and it is so pretty”.

 

Two more months of this experiment and we may well find ourselves solidly anchored at the bottom spot and with a points gap to safety that will be impossible to bridge.

 

If you want to "give it time", that is your right, and I respect that, but I hope that you realize that it is taking a gamble with the future of the club that we all love. I play poker as a semi-pro, and I know that you don't gamble if you want to win, you play the odds. If the odds are against you, you fold the hand and play the next one.

 

With this experiment the odds are against us. The longer it lasts, the harder it will be to get out of the resulting sh@te.

 

I agree with much of this in that we have to act immediately if things are still the same (as in relegation zone) in six weeks or so, but five games isn't long in anybody's book. I still believe till this day that had sturrock got a full chance instead of three matches, we would not be in this mess.

And as everyone keeps saying what other choice have we got? Lowe has made his bed and we all have to lie in it

[norwaysaint]

I am fully aware of the financial restrictions that we have to operate under and that our options may be limited, but (at least in my mind) it is also clear that this current experiment leads to only one thing: relegation. A consequence of relegation would be even tighter finances, if not administration.

 

So instead of spending the salary on 4 "coaches" (Poortvliet, Wotte, Hockaday and the new Dutch guy) what about spending the salary of these 4 inexperienced guys on one experienced hard-nosed real old-fashioned manager?

 

I agree, what about someone like Burley or Redknapp? They'd sort us out in no time.

 

Why do people keep talking about the experiment not working? This isn't an experiment. We are in financial problems and need to play our kids. Even the more experienced players like John and Skacel will be on hefty bonuses which makes it expensive for us to play them.

 

You do realise that Portvliet/Lowe would probably love to buy top players if we could afford them don't you? They haven't just decided to go for a cheap option, they're following the only real option there is.

 

Hardly an experiment.

[Big Ron fan]

I agree, what about someone like Burley or Redknapp? They'd sort us out in no time.

 

Why do people keep talking about the experiment not working? This isn't an experiment. We are in financial problems and need to play our kids. Even the more experienced players like John and Skacel will be on hefty bonuses which makes it expensive for us to play them.

 

You do realise that Portvliet/Lowe would probably love to buy top players if we could afford them don't you? They haven't just decided to go for a cheap option, they're following the only real option there is.

 

Hardly an experiment.

 

No, I don't realise that and don't believe it is true.

[redkeith]

I know that it is now the national obsession to get hysterical and have a witch hunt every time something goes wrong, but I can't see any alternative the way we are trying to play, as the style suits the players that we have left, and can afford to play. That being said, I think it is important to utilise the experience that we have on the books, and for me Wooton, Perry and John should be some of the first names on the team sheat ( plus Skacel while Holmes is injured).

 

Sacking the coach and brining in a Billy Davies style alternative would just not work, as we do not have enough big and nasty players on the books, or the money to recruit them.

 

However, I mus take issue with the earlier post about the similar dismisal of Sturrock. Anyone who was at the Villa Park game that season will agree to his sacking. I have never seen a team so ill prepared for the coming season. When he reacted to that defeat by moving house/going on a bender for 3 days, his time was up. A decent manager would have had the whole squad locked in at Staplewood for 3 days instead.

[saintbob40]

3 wins in the next seven days and the fairweather fan barometer will shift in the other direction and will probably be as equally over the top. This board gets like a support group for ex-Sun journos at times. From despair to ecstasy (no not the noun!) and back again with not a great deal in between.

 

I genuinely believe this team is one or two players from being very good. My memory can stretch back to the Derby and Birmingham games...

 

3-0, the Saints tonight.

[Whitey Grandad]

So, can you explain exactly what is wrong with the current management team?

They obviously know nothing about how to organise a defence.

Edited 17 September, 2008 by Whitey Grandad
spelling

[70's Mike]

3 wins in the next seven days and the fairweather fan barometer will shift in the other direction and will probably be as equally over the top. This board gets like a support group for ex-Sun journos at times. From despair to ecstasy (no not the noun!) and back again with not a great deal in between.

 

I genuinely believe this team is one or two players from being very good. My memory can stretch back to the Derby and Birmingham games...

 

3-0, the Saints tonight.

 

 

I hope you are right but I fear that teams may have sussed us out.

 

Let us have the ball between the 2 boxes because we cannot defend our own box or hurt teams in theirs.

[Whitey Grandad]

I hope you are right but I fear that teams may have sussed us out.

 

Let us have the ball between the 2 boxes because we cannot defend our own box or hurt teams in theirs.

That seems to be a common strategy by the opposition. Defensively we there are wide open spaces behind both our full-backs and going forward we have been getting crosses in but they have been poor quality and there is nobody in the middle to feed off them. On top of that we have no-one who can shoot from distance and we are hardly a threat from set-pieces (Perry apart). Now Holmes is out for the next couple of months and there are no reserves because they're already playing.

[The Godfather]

With no money to bring in an experienced manager or buy/loan in new players, please can you provide an alternative :smt102

 

 

But Wilde has said their is money to bring a loan player in his recent Q&A answer article in the Echo.

[Plumstead_Saint]

However, I mus take issue with the earlier post about the similar dismisal of Sturrock. Anyone who was at the Villa Park game that season will agree to his sacking. I have never seen a team so ill prepared for the coming season. When he reacted to that defeat by moving house/going on a bender for 3 days, his time was up. A decent manager would have had the whole squad locked in at Staplewood for 3 days instead.

This is a malicious slur, without any foundation.

Have you stopped beating your wife, RedKeith?

[aintforever]

I hope I've got you right here, and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but in answer to what is your alternative to the current setup, you've identified:

 

1) Compensate 4 coaches by paying out their contract in full

2) Convince an experienced hard-nosed coach to come work with a team that now has no real assets - 5 games into the season - without the benefit of a pre-season - with no money - sitting bottom of the league - with a squad of youngsters

3) Hope really really hard that we can find investment by the main sharefolders declaring some sort of truce.

4) and the last thing that will help us climb the league is for the club to be more honest.

 

In my humble opinion this is not a set of real, workable alternatives. This is a list of your biggest gripes with the club.

 

If I'd read this at the end of last season, I couldn't have faulted it as a "valid" plan for the coming season.

 

But we are where we are, the die is cast, we have made changes and commitments to our bank and the plan is going to be executed.

 

Don't fundamentally disagree with your view of what is needed, just how unrealistic I think you're being.

 

One option would be for Lowe and Wilde to pay for the above out of their own pocket.

 

Could actually be a prudent move on their part considering relegation would mean administration and them getting zero for their shares.

[rick1976.4.38]

i think we can come good,this is the team we have to play and having seen all their matches so far they are playing well,have spirit and and passion and commitment.problem is we need to play stern john so that we score the chances we are creating.dmc is ok but im afraid he is not going to get the goals we need.with out a top striker then we struggle more than we need to.it may take a few matches but we will be ok,changing the manager after 5 games is unreal,rome was not built in a day,get real,coyr

[70's Mike]

One option would be for Lowe and Wilde to pay for the above out of their own pocket.

 

Could actually be a prudent move on their part considering relegation would mean administration and them getting zero for their shares.

 

Wait for "the why should they reply"

 

It would be interesting to do a survey of all clubs out side the Premiership to see how many of them are supported by , or have Loans from Directors.

[redkeith]

This is a malicious slur, without any foundation.

Have you stopped beating your wife, RedKeith?

The rumour about Sturrock was out there before the Blackburn game. I do not know if it is factual.

 

What is true is that Sturrock took 3 days off, after an appalling performance at Villa. Much as I liked Sturrock at the time, particularly the introduction of Folly as a DM, the profesional response to the Villa fiasco should have been "Sorry love, you'll have to unpack yourself, we were sh@t on Saturday and I need to kick some @rse"

 

PS You can't beat my wife, she's tops!

[INFLUENCED.COM]

“

No matter what you think of Harry, by the time he was brought him in we already had such a bad team, that was in such bad shape, and in such a free-fall that there was no saving us any more.

 

 

Will never understand why Saints fans continue to excuse his time here, of course there was time it was the will that there was little or nothing of

[Tac-tics]

What is with you people, we don't have much choice, I agree we have given to much time which is ultimatly why we are where we are.

 

The boys will only gain experiance and improve, I think ultimately we will go down, and grow from then.

[Fowllyd]

So instead of spending the salary on 4 "coaches" (Poortvliet, Wotte, Hockaday and the new Dutch guy) what about spending the salary of these 4 inexperienced guys on one experienced hard-nosed real old-fashioned manager?

 

OK. As far as I'm aware we have four main coaches at the club - Poortvliet, Wotte, Hockaday and Henderson (I haven't seen anything to say he's moved on, but I could have missed it). There is no new Dutch guy; there was a thread on here about a Dutch coach coming in for a couple of days, but that's about that. So we'll have a tough job saving his salary, but then there's always Henderson's to be saved.

 

Both Hockaday and Henderson were here already, so their positions with the club owe nothing to either Lowe or the current set-up. Hockaday did take a step up as part of the new set-up, admittedly. What the hell, we'll get rid of them along with Poortvliet and Wotte.

 

Now all we need is an experienced, hard-nosed, old-fashioned manager. One who'll manage and coach the first team, the reserves, the youth teams, run the academy. He'll have to, as we've just removed the people who did all of those things.

 

Yes, I can see where you're coming from...

[surrey1saint]

A win tonight and we are only 3 points behind Bristol City who have only lost once this season.

So why the panick ??

 

At last a sensible post!

[Secret Site Agent]

“Give It Time” is a phrase I have heard often on this board (and it’s predecessors) over the last 6 or 7 years;

 

Stuart Gray’s abysmal performance: “Give him some time, it’ll be all right”

 

When Wigley was appointed and failed miserably right from the start: “Give it time, he’ll get it right”

 

Burley and his moronic tactics, especially in his last season: “Give it time, it’s too early in the season. Let’s wait till December at least”

 

And now we have a new experiment of playing the young kids, led by a coach who has no experience in either English football or coaching at a level that is even close to that of the CCC, no manager and no official DoF, and again I see all these posts stating that we should give it time, and that 5 League matches is way too early too judge.

 

Did it not register with any of you that “giving it time” is what got us relegated? No matter what you think of Harry, by the time he was brought him in we already had such a bad team, that was in such bad shape, and in such a free-fall that there was no saving us any more. We ran out of time because we gave a failing manager too much of it.

 

Did any of you pay attention to what happened with Burley in his last season? We gave him time, way too much of it. By the time Pearson got his hands on the team the players were severely unfit, to call them unmotivated would be too friendly a word, and again the team was in such a performance free-fall that it is an absolute miracle that we didn’t get relegated.

 

So let’s not have so much of this “give it time, we will be all right” anymore, unless you are prepared to see this team relegated well before the season is over. If this experiment continues for 2 more months we will already be so far from safety that saving the club from relegation will be near impossible, no matter how much money (if we had any investment coming) could be thrown at the problem.

 

So please, don’t tell me in every other thread on here that “it will be all right”, and that you are “really impressed with Ru**rt”, or that ”the football is such a joy to watch and it is so pretty”.

 

Two more months of this experiment and we may well find ourselves solidly anchored at the bottom spot and with a points gap to safety that will be impossible to bridge.

 

If you want to "give it time", that is your right, and I respect that, but I hope that you realize that it is taking a gamble with the future of the club that we all love. I play poker as a semi-pro, and I know that you don't gamble if you want to win, you play the odds. If the odds are against you, you fold the hand and play the next one.

 

With this experiment the odds are against us. The longer it lasts, the harder it will be to get out of the resulting sh@te.

 

**** it. Sack the manager, sack the board, don't play the youngsters but get ANY loan player in as quick as possible. Then repeat in 3 month. Then repeat in 3 months. Then repaet in 3 months. As this has worked in the past.

[Victor]

And whether or not Sturrock should have been sacked is irelevant to this arguement.

He was sacked 'soon' - and did that solve the problem?

 

Frankly, I don't think so, but there have been so many and frequent changes that I have lost track of what happened next. Surely there is a clue there.