Bakovnetski Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Anyone else check out the Sunday Times Sports Rich List? Markus does not make it into the top 5 rich League 1 owners. Swindon apparently with the men with deeper pockets. Sloppy journo or hidden Swiss accounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Anyone else check out the Sunday Times Sports Rich List? Markus does not make it into the top 5 rich League 1 owners. Swindon apparently with the men with deeper pockets. Sloppy journo or hidden Swiss accounts? think we've been through this several times recently. It would seem that Markus does not care to participate in this sort of dong measuring contest for the titilation of the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 None of the other Liebherr siblings ever seem to feature in European rich lists but I think it's a pretty safe bet they've got a wedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Anyone else check out the Sunday Times Sports Rich List? Markus does not make it into the top 5 rich League 1 owners. Swindon apparently with the men with deeper pockets. Sloppy journo or hidden Swiss accounts? Yes because all the other League 1 teams have spent millions on their squads this season...oh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Jonny Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Yes because all the other League 1 teams have spent millions on their squads this season...oh.... and written off circa £20 million of stadium and bank debt, and invested millions into the academy and training facilities totally without the banks help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 and written off circa £20 million of stadium and bank debt, and invested millions into the academy and training facilities totally without the banks help... yeah add that in also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Yes because all the other League 1 teams have spent millions on their squads this season...oh.... others would say that we are merely breaking even this season personally, I think that is impossible but hey ho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 others would say that we are merely breaking even this season personally, I think that is impossible but hey ho Don't think we'll be very far off, apart from capital expenditure on the training ground and stuff. We've had good crowds for a whole lot of matches and have no debt to service. I'd say we're just about in the black for the season.There will be a big demand for STs and nothing to wedge up for other than players and costs. If we'd had this season's success last season (if you see what I mean) I very much doubt that we'd have had to go into admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveygwyatt Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Don't think we'll be very far off, apart from capital expenditure on the training ground and stuff. We've had good crowds for a whole lot of matches and have no debt to service. I'd say we're just about in the black for the season.There will be a big demand for STs and nothing to wedge up for other than players and costs. If we'd had this season's success last season (if you see what I mean) I very much doubt that we'd have had to go into admin. I agree. We had no debts to pay.. A few more high wage earners left the club. We would have budgeted for around 13k fans and first round cup defeats.. so with all this taken in to account and new owners and CEO business sense I would suggest we have broke even this yr or made a very slight loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 others would say that we are merely breaking even this season personally, I think that is impossible but hey hoMust be close, I know you are looking for another argument but the wages must be a lot lower than before and we are averaging 21000 which is huge for this league, can't be far off believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 When you look at the value of these multi millionaires and billionaires, it is only one part of the equation. The main point is how much disposable assets do they have to throw at the club and how much are they prepared to throw? In Liebherrs case it really looks like we stumbled into the top 5 in footballing circles. God knows why he wanted to start with Saints, but eternally grateful what ever. When you try and look at what he is doing with his money it is impossible to get a decent picture, but it would not surprise me if he has around £500M disposable and prepared to use it eventually. This is a form of hobby, but much bigger and a way of getting pleasure from his immense wealth. You can tell from the information given out by Cortese about how this came about. He basically got fed up with making £B's from business and wanted something to stir the passion within. I think he would baulk at splashing out the mega bucks for an established club, but the way he is going, I can easily see his heart ruling his head. When you look at someone like Wilde (who is still a wealthy man), it's good having assets around £100M, but if your disposable only mounts up to £5M, not a lot you can do with that. In Liebherrs case we have the classic financial iceberg, with only a fraction of his disposable assets on show with the vast majority safely attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOTONS EAST SIDE Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Pointless thread!! Enough said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 I can't see Mr Liebherr ever making money out of Saints, despite the talk of aiming to do so from Nicola Cortese. In my opinion it's just talk to give the impression we won't be made mugs of in the transfer market. ML has the bug in my opinion and although initially SFC might have been seen as a business and pleasure venture we'll just be a pleasure venture that makes ML happy in the end. The fact is that Saints will always be a provincial little club and to achieve what ML wants will always mean we've got to spend more than we bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Man Do Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Must be close, I know you are looking for another argument but the wages must be a lot lower than before and we are averaging 21000 which is huge for this league, can't be far off believe me. I remember reading somewhere last season that we needed 17,000 a game to break even on staging games last season and that was taking into account the stadium mortgage etc so based on that the break even figure for crowds must be much less surely? Also anyone know, did we take much money from ticket sales for the JPT final or does that go to wembley/FA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Also anyone know, did we take much money from ticket sales for the JPT final or does that go to wembley/FA? We get about 40% of the total profit after all expenses are paid but none of the broadcasting and advertising rights.Ticket sales are recovered by the Football League for all finals of League Competitions. Their Article 57 covers it fairly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 League One top 5 (for what it's worth): 1 Sir Martyn Arbib (Swindon Town) £325m 2 Andrew Black (Swindon Town) £185m 3 Dean Hoyle (Huddersfield Town) £154m 4 Graham Ferguson Lacey (Millwall) £90m 5 Frank Van Wezel (Southend United) £72m I suspect it's more a case that they don't know much about ML, or his source of wealth. League Two: 1 Robbie Williams (Port Vale) £85m 2 David Allen (Chesterfield) £75m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 League One top 5 (for what it's worth): 1 Sir Martyn Arbib (Swindon Town) £325m 2 Andrew Black (Swindon Town) £185m 3 Dean Hoyle (Huddersfield Town) £154m 4 Graham Ferguson Lacey (Millwall) £90m 5 Frank Van Wezel (Southend United) £72m I suspect it's more a case that they don't know much about ML, or his source of wealth. League Two: 1 Robbie Williams (Port Vale) £85m 2 David Allen (Chesterfield) £75m Call that rich? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 League One top 5 (for what it's worth): 1 Sir Martyn Arbib (Swindon Town) £325m 2 Andrew Black (Swindon Town) £185m 3 Dean Hoyle (Huddersfield Town) £154m 4 Graham Ferguson Lacey (Millwall) £90m 5 Frank Van Wezel (Southend United) £72m I suspect it's more a case that they don't know much about ML, or his source of wealth. League Two: 1 Robbie Williams (Port Vale) £85m 2 David Allen (Chesterfield) £75m When I was looking through the Exeter forum that had a link on one of our hreads today there were idiots who were asking how a "bankrupt club" could afford to pay a million for Lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 When I was looking through the Exeter forum that had a link on one of our hreads today there were idiots who were asking how a "bankrupt club" could afford to pay a million for Lambert. not many fans have a clue about us tbh. some Shef. Wednesday forums have fans saying ''we should sign Lambert/lallana/ as saints didn't go up , they will have to cash in as they are skint'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 ML wealth is between 2.3-2.8 billion pounds if you believe what's written in the press. This would obviously put him miles in front in league 1 and in the top 3-4 of the premier league. He is a fiercely private man by all accounts, hence there is not that much on him on the interweb, I like his style. Hopefully markus will be around for a long time, does he have any children to continue the legacy here? He is no spring chicken. I have been impressed by cortese as well, but would hope he will make more friends than enemies next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Anyone else check out the Sunday Times Sports Rich List? Markus does not make it into the top 5 rich League 1 owners. Swindon apparently with the men with deeper pockets. Sloppy journo or hidden Swiss accounts? Shh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 As someone said earlier it does not matter what your wealth is but how much is readily available to spend , and is spent, on the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 I reckon we make about £7.5m per annum from tickets. I seem to remember a stat that said the average take from tickets was £15 (once you take into account concessions etc.). It would be interesting to know what the wage bill is but as we're not a PLC anymore I'm not sure we'll find out that info. I wouldn't think we're paying more than £8K a week to top names, but it is a crazy sport, so who knows. I think the Ward experience probably tells us we're on the sensible side of extravagant. Not having a mortgage clearly helps, as does hospitality and balti pies etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 (edited) League One top 5 (for what it's worth): 1 Sir Martyn Arbib (Swindon Town) £325m 2 Andrew Black (Swindon Town) £185m 3 Dean Hoyle (Huddersfield Town) £154m 4 Graham Ferguson Lacey (Millwall) £90m 5 Frank Van Wezel (Southend United) £72m I suspect it's more a case that they don't know much about ML, or his source of wealth. League Two: 1 Robbie Williams (Port Vale) £85m 2 David Allen (Chesterfield) £75m Think the answer is that ML is not based in the UK, hence he does not appear in the List. The list is "The first definitive list of the wealthiest sporting stars in Britain and Ireland". ML is not based in the UK and therefore does not figure in the list. Here is a quote from the Times from 9 Jul 2009: "Liebherr, 61, was born in Germany and is a member of a wealthy Swiss-based business family who specialise in construction machinery, although he operates independently through his own group of companies, the Mali Group. Liebherr, who paid an estimated £13 million for the club, is understood to have personal wealth of €3 billion (£2.6 billion)." Think that answers the question and confirms that they do know about ML. Frank van Weasel's "wealth" (pah! peanuts) didn't help Southend much did it. Edited 3 May, 2010 by VectisSaint Added quote from the Times dated 9 July 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 I can't see Mr Liebherr ever making money out of Saints, despite the talk of aiming to do so from Nicola Cortese. In my opinion it's just talk to give the impression we won't be made mugs of in the transfer market. ML has the bug in my opinion and although initially SFC might have been seen as a business and pleasure venture we'll just be a pleasure venture that makes ML happy in the end. The fact is that Saints will always be a provincial little club and to achieve what ML wants will always mean we've got to spend more than we bring in.Saints aren't a provincial little club, when in the premiership we sold out 32000 most weeks, little is Exeter city or Yeovil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Saints aren't a provincial little club, when in the premiership we sold out 32000 most weeks, little is Exeter city or Yeovil. or Portsmouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 I'm delighted that apparently we manage to achieve such a low profile when our owner's wealth would place us so very high in the hierarchy of English clubs. Firstly, it is a credit to the private man that Liebherr is that he doesn't have any sort of ego to puff himself up and secondly it is a distinct benefit that we maintain this low profile and are not ripped off by other clubs and agents thinking that because Liebherr can afford it, they ought to jack up the prices of their players. On the other hand, we know and Pardew knows, that if we do not want to sell a player, we do not have to because of financial restraints, so we can keep them all unless stupid money is thrown at us making it silly not to take it. What a lovely position we are in. And if some ignorant Swindon fan tries to extract the urine on the basis of that report, we can put them right, that what their owners are worth is just small change compared to what ours is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakovnetski Posted 3 May, 2010 Author Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Think the answer is that ML is not based in the UK, hence he does not appear in the List. The list is "The first definitive list of the wealthiest sporting stars in Britain and Ireland". ML is not based in the UK and therefore does not figure in the list. Here is a quote from the Times from 9 Jul 2009: "Liebherr, 61, was born in Germany and is a member of a wealthy Swiss-based business family who specialise in construction machinery, although he operates independently through his own group of companies, the Mali Group. Liebherr, who paid an estimated £13 million for the club, is understood to have personal wealth of €3 billion (£2.6 billion)." Think that answers the question and confirms that they do know about ML. Frank van Weasel's "wealth" (pah! peanuts) didn't help Southend much did it. There you go then....sloppy journo. These lists are generally not compiled with input from the subjects....everything is estimated according to them. This nut should have checked his own paper's sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 (edited) Saints aren't a provincial little club, when in the premiership we sold out 32000 most weeks, little is Exeter city or Yeovil. Exactly, we is masive init..... Edited 3 May, 2010 by Micky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Exactly, we is masive init.....I'd say medium innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 what the hell is a "provincial club"..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 what the hell is a "provincial club"..?Not sure but I don't think Southampton is a small provincial city, 250000 people live in the city and plenty more in the surrounding areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Not sure but I don't think Southampton is a small provincial city, 250000 people live in the city and plenty more in the surrounding areas. another thing I hate, is when we were in the CCC and people "claimed" that we had found our level... WTF...!!!1111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Didn't Markus say SFC would never have to ask for money from the bank while he was the owner..? That's a pretty iiresponsible statement unless he has the dosh to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 another thing I hate, is when we were in the CCC and people "claimed" that we had found our level... WTF...!!!1111Indeed, these "fans" make me angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Saints aren't a provincial little club, when in the premiership we sold out 32000 most weeks, little is Exeter city or Yeovil. It depends which goldfish bowl you swim in. Currently we're a big club, but we're a small club in the conext of the Premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 It depends which goldfish bowl you swim in. Currently we're a big club, but we're a small club in the conext of the Premier league. really..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 (edited) we're a small club in the conext of the Premier league. Saints averaged over 30k every year at St Mary's in the Premiership. This season... - Only 10 Premiership teams are getting on average over 30k. - Only 7 Premiership teams over 40k. - Only 2 teams over 45k. Still think Saints would be a small Premiership club? Edited 3 May, 2010 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 It depends which goldfish bowl you swim in. Currently we're a big club, but we're a small club in the conext of the Premier league. I'd say if we were in it we would be a medium sized club and certainly not a small provincial club. More fans than Wigan Skates Fulham Bolton Blackburn Hull Wolves Birmingham Burnley Stoke Thats 10 clubs we would average more than, mid-sized:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 really..? Yeah. Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds, are big clubs. Then come the likes of Leicester, Forest, Derby, West Ham, Norwich, Ipswich and Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Yeah. Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds, are big clubs. Then come the likes of Leicester, Forest, Derby, West Ham, Norwich, Ipswich and Saints. right.. so there are only 9 or so big clubs in the land..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 I'd say if we were in it we would be a medium sized club and certainly not a small provincial club. More fans than Wigan Skates Fulham Bolton Blackburn Hull Wolves Birmingham Burnley Stoke Thats 10 clubs we would average more than, mid-sized:) I'm not wanting to knock us, far from it, we've gpt really a really strong fanbase, but in our history we've never been in the same bracket as the clubs I mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Yeah. Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Everton, Arsenal, chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds, are big clubs. Then come the likes of Leicester, Forest, Derby, West Ham, Norwich, Ipswich and Saints. Doesn't make us small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 right.. so there are only 9 or so big clubs in the land..? About that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveygwyatt Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 really..? I would say that with a few thousand extra seats we could get around 40 thousand most weeks In the prem.. No reason we can't be up with villa spurs and everton ..def a top 8 team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 Doesn't make us small. In the context of the premier league it makes us not big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 I would say that with a few thousand extra seats we could get around 40 thousand most weeks In the prem.. No reason we can't be up with villa spurs and everton ..def a top 8 team right now, if we were in the prem. we would be smack bang in the middle of the "d1ck measuring" however, the potential here is far greater than most, just going from this season alone with a taste of just a small amount of success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintkiptanui Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 In the context of the premier league it makes us not big. Mid-sized:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 I would say that with a few thousand extra seats we could get around 40 thousand most weeks In the prem.. No reason we can't be up with villa spurs and everton ..def a top 8 team We could possibly be up with Villa, but we'll never be as big as Everton or Spurs. If we built a 40,000 stadium we'd struggle to sell out, but a club like Spurs (less so Everton) could easily sellout a 60,000 stadium - we couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 3 May, 2010 Share Posted 3 May, 2010 We could possibly be up with Villa, but we'll never be as big as Everton or Spurs. If we built a 40,000 stadium we'd struggle to sell out, but a club like Spurs (less so Everton) could easily sellout a 60,000 stadium - we couldn't. I am afraid that is right. We are best to stick with 32,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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