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Pardew settlement with SFC

RonManager

By RonManager,
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NickG

NickG

Posted
Posted
That closes that chapter, best of luck to him in the future. If hear'say is correct then the JPT final may not have been Cortese's priority but my god, I will always be greatful for the memory.

 

Cheers Pards, best of british to you.

 

shame we will never play another JPT game.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
I had heard that Pardew had been sacked - it's the lead story on the front page of this very forum.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/

 

Glad things have all be sorted now. I look forward to seeing news of his replacement on the Saintsweb news page any day now.

 

Any have any suggestions on who it could be?

 

I heard its going to be Martin O'neil he has already had an interview with NC.

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Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
I had heard that Pardew had been sacked - it's the lead story on the front page of this very forum.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/

 

Glad things have all be sorted now. I look forward to seeing news of his replacement on the Saintsweb news page any day now.

 

Any have any suggestions on who it could be?

 

I've heard it is Paul Hart as favourite! Also can you believe all this itkers who are saying it will definitely be MON. What muppets, as if he'd drop to this level.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

It will be an unknown Dutch bloke.

 

We have no money and as everyone knows, if a company's shareholder dies you get stuck in an intractible probate web and business grinds to a halt for months, nay years, on end.

 

Mind you, NC could end all this with one call and it would be amzing, a revelation, BUT PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST.

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Big Bad Bob

Big Bad Bob

Posted
Posted
I heard its going to be Martin O'neil he has already had an interview with NC.

 

I've heard it is Paul Hart as favourite! Also can you believe all this itkers who are saying it will definitely be MON. What muppets, as if he'd drop to this level.

 

Away with you, my money's on Eddie Howe, young, up coming manager, done wonders at Bompey on a shoestring...

 

Actually, sod that, I'm waiting for the Marquee manager that will come in and give us all the WOW factor!!

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
If Pardew was sacked for gross misconduct as some ITK on here told us. Why are we giving him a settlement? If I was sacked for gross misconduct I'd get escorted of site by secruity not given a nice settlement.

 

Cheers for a great season Alan hope you find a new Job soon.

 

 

But no-one knows what the settlement is do they? It could be anything between Saints paying him and his staff the full remaining value of their contracts and eating humble pie, through to Pardew paying the club compensation for the additional costs incurred in handling the fallout from some outrageous behaviour by him. In practice, its probably somewhere in between.

Edited by buctootim
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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
And he will be out again within 18months.

 

I reckon we got a better manager out of the deal.

 

I wasn't suggesting otherwise with regard to Adkins, though its clearly still early days and I'mnot getting over excited about a 2-0 defeat to Tranmere.

 

But I think Pardew will use this as a stepping stone back up the league; he's a better manager than many give him credit for, not up there with the best, but he can rightly have pride in what he achieved with us IMO. Good luck to him, I always liked him as a manager and as a man.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
But no-one knows what the settlement is do they? It could be anything between Saints paying him and his staff the full remaining value of their contracts and eating humble pie, through to Pardew paying the club compensation for the additional costs incurred in handling the fallout from some outrageous behaviour by him. In practice, its probably somewhere in between.

 

Why? gross misconduct would mean no need to make any settlement at all, more "your fired, clear your desk, get the **** out" surely football still has to follow UK employment Law (although as they can refuse to give money to the taxman maybe football is above petty things like law)? I just don't see NC handing out anything he doesn't have to of the money front. We will never know what happened but I'd like to think the club wouldn't waste cash on a payout they didn't need to make and I'm saying that as someone who liked AP.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
I wasn't suggesting otherwise with regard to Adkins, though its clearly still early days and I'mnot getting over excited about a 2-0 defeat to Tranmere.

 

But I think Pardew will use this as a stepping stone back up the league; he's a better manager than many give him credit for, not up there with the best, but he can rightly have pride in what he achieved with us IMO. Good luck to him, I always liked him as a manager and as a man.

 

I think his stock is higher in football circles than it is with a portion of our fanbase. I hope he gets another job bloke deserves it.

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
Why? gross misconduct would mean no need to make any settlement at all, more "your fired, clear your desk, get the **** out" surely football still has to follow UK employment Law (although as they can refuse to give money to the taxman maybe football is above petty things like law)? I just don't see NC handing out anything he doesn't have to of the money front. We will never know what happened but I'd like to think the club wouldn't waste cash on a payout they didn't need to make and I'm saying that as someone who liked AP.

 

No-one, club or manager, wants the bad publicity from an employent tribunal or court case. Mostly people in higher level jobs dont get sacked or walk - there's just a mutally negotiated separation agreement.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
No-one, club or manager, wants the bad publicity from an employent tribunal or court case. Mostly people in higher level jobs dont get sacked or walk - there's just a mutally negotiated separation agreement.

 

Wheres the bad publicity for us if he did something wrong? the club would be acting entirely within their rights sack someone for gross misconduct. Also I don't think NC is all that bothered by what the press think considering his run ins with them recently.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
No-one, club or manager, wants the bad publicity from an employent tribunal or court case. Mostly people in higher level jobs dont get sacked or walk - there's just a mutally negotiated separation agreement.

 

Or maybe all those rumours were just rumours and AP and his staff were let go for footballing reasons after all.

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saint_mears

saint_mears

Posted
Posted
Or maybe all those rumours were just rumours and AP and his staff were let go for footballing reasons after all.

 

'footballing reasons' LOL

 

Cortese wanted Pardew out for months and the final straw for him was guly only getting five mins at bristol rovers. FACT

 

Cortese got rid of the two other coaches because they where pardew allies FACT

 

Everything else is just lies coming from an office in london. FACT

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
'footballing reasons' LOL

 

Cortese wanted Pardew out for months and the final straw for him was guly only getting five mins at bristol rovers. FACT

 

Cortese got rid of the two other coaches because they where pardew allies FACT

 

Everything else is just lies coming from an office in london. FACT

 

Are those not footballing reasons then?

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JackanorySFC

JackanorySFC

Posted
Posted
I think he has come out of this remarkably well. I wonder if NC has been contractually restricted from giving references.... Otherwise the sleazy c**t would never get a job.
#

 

He was sleazy (Fletcher etc) at West Ham but the rumours about him down here were just that - rumours (I know that for a fact). Kids stuff really, can't believe so many people bought it, like the stupid Gerrard rumours, some poeple are like gossiping old women, they need some conspiracy to hold onto. Anyway, he done a fantastic job here, personally I wish him well.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Amazing how few people get this.

 

Get what exactly? Pardew had his contract terminated by the club, and the club announced the reasons why (according to the statement, the decisions were taken to help the club "achieve its well-known targets" following "a review of the current status in and around the first team").

 

The club then enter a period of negotiation with Pardew to determine the terms of his compensation for termination of contract.

 

What's not to get?

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JustMike

JustMike

Posted
Posted
Get what exactly? Pardew had his contract terminated by the club, and the club announced the reasons why (according to the statement, the decisions were taken to help the club "achieve its well-known targets" following "a review of the current status in and around the first team").

 

The club then enter a period of negotiation with Pardew to determine the terms of his compensation for termination of contract.

 

What's not to get?

 

Alpines' hidden agenda?

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
If Pardew was sacked for gross misconduct as some ITK on here told us. Why are we giving him a settlement? If I was sacked for gross misconduct I'd get escorted of site by secruity not given a nice settlement.

.

 

I've no idea why he was sacked but if you have an employee on several hundred thousand a year you try to come to a settlement regardless in order to stop costly proceedings from taking place and in order to keep matters behind closed doors and avoid a public airing of your dirty washing.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Why? gross misconduct would mean no need to make any settlement at all, more "your fired, clear your desk, get the **** out" surely football still has to follow UK employment Law (although as they can refuse to give money to the taxman maybe football is above petty things like law)? I just don't see NC handing out anything he doesn't have to of the money front. We will never know what happened but I'd like to think the club wouldn't waste cash on a payout they didn't need to make and I'm saying that as someone who liked AP.

 

See above.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
No-one, club or manager, wants the bad publicity from an employent tribunal or court case. Mostly people in higher level jobs dont get sacked or walk - there's just a mutally negotiated separation agreement.

 

Apologies, I see you've already covered this!

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
'footballing reasons' LOL

 

Cortese wanted Pardew out for months and the final straw for him was guly only getting five mins at bristol rovers. FACT

 

Cortese got rid of the two other coaches because they where pardew allies FACT

 

Everything else is just lies coming from an office in london. FACT

 

:lol:

 

So why did Guly only just make his first start then? Stop being a mentalist.

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
Wheres the bad publicity for us if he did something wrong? the club would be acting entirely within their rights sack someone for gross misconduct. Also I don't think NC is all that bothered by what the press think considering his run ins with them recently.

 

Court cases by their nature are adversarial. You would have Pardew claiming all kinds of things about the club to prove his case and the club claiming things about Pardew to prove theirs. The press would lap it up and both sides come out looking bad. When you take into account the uncertainty about who will win, and all the legal costs involved, why would either side take that route? Far better to just agree a settlement quietly.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
Court cases by their nature are adversarial. You would have Pardew claiming all kinds of things about the club to prove his case and the club claiming things about Pardew to prove theirs. The press would lap it up and both sides come out looking bad. When you take into account the uncertainty about who will win, and all the legal costs involved, why would either side take that route? Far better to just agree a settlement quietly.

 

So in other words the club wouldn't be confident enough in their gross misconduct charge to go to court which in effect means their wasn't really any gross misconduct. In all the places I've worked if you've committed gross misconduct and the employer can prove it your sacked you can't take the employer to court as you don't have a leg to stand on and you certainly don't get a settlement. If your employer can't prove it then they can't sack you for it, you can't be sacked becuase they think you are doing something. Giving Pardew a settlement seems to prove to me that he was sacked for footballing reasons just like almost every other football manager not becuase he was humping his way round staplewood. No way do I buy the Idea that NC a man who picks fights with the press for fun and is very single minded if he feels he is the right is going to worry about bad publicity from the press or back down from a court battle.

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Professor

Professor

Posted
Posted

Although the reporter hasn't spelt it out in words of one syllable, he is clearly saying that Pardew has agreed how much he will accept to pay up his contract. The 'gross misconduct' rumours are completely unfounded and were always unbelievabel because the club could not sack three people on those grounds unless all had been compliant in the act.

 

As usual with rumours, they were spread by people who claimed a 'reliable source' not by the source themselves and these 'sources' were giving different reasons to different people.

 

So, we move on, Pardew must now be reasonably happy, otherwise he wouldn't have accepted the compensation, although he won't be fully satisfied until he has a new job. The fans are largely satisfied as Adkins looks an OK manager who should achieve at least what Pardew would have done.

The main loser is Cortese, as his trustworthyness is damaged because he did not come clean over the reasons for the decisions, not just over Pardew but over Downes and Murdoch He gave a 'football' reason but did not justify it, leaving some of the fans with an element of doubt over his honesty.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
Court cases by their nature are adversarial. You would have Pardew claiming all kinds of things about the club to prove his case and the club claiming things about Pardew to prove theirs. The press would lap it up and both sides come out looking bad. When you take into account the uncertainty about who will win, and all the legal costs involved, why would either side take that route? Far better to just agree a settlement quietly.

 

Eminently sensible take on things and as Alpine says, a surprise that some don't seem capable of understanding that this scenario is a possible solution driven by expedience. A line is drawn neatly under proceedings and everybody can move on, without any dirty laundry being washed in public.

 

If Cortese believed that Pardew wasn't the manager to take us up and that he finds Adkins to be the better candidate and also somebody who he has a better rapport with, then the price of the compensation is worth paying. Whether Pardew's departure was because of an incident of gross misconduct or for differences of opinion as to how the club should progress from here in footballing terms is unlikely to be known by anybody on here for a fact. Therefore Pardew is able to cite the second position in his next job interviews rather than the first.

 

However, although he did quite well to get us where we ended just narrowly missing the play-offs and winning the JPT Cup, I feel other clubs might still feel that he left us under a cloud, much as many of us felt he had left Charlton under a cloud.

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted
'footballing reasons' LOL

 

Cortese wanted Pardew out for months and the final straw for him was guly only getting five mins at bristol rovers. FACT

 

Cortese got rid of the two other coaches because they where pardew allies FACT

 

Everything else is just lies coming from an office in london. FACT

 

Least factual post of the day. FACT

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Although the reporter hasn't spelt it out in words of one syllable, he is clearly saying that Pardew has agreed how much he will accept to pay up his contract. The 'gross misconduct' rumours are completely unfounded and were always unbelievabel because the club could not sack three people on those grounds unless all had been compliant in the act.

 

As usual with rumours, they were spread by people who claimed a 'reliable source' not by the source themselves and these 'sources' were giving different reasons to different people.

 

So, we move on, Pardew must now be reasonably happy, otherwise he wouldn't have accepted the compensation, although he won't be fully satisfied until he has a new job. The fans are largely satisfied as Adkins looks an OK manager who should achieve at least what Pardew would have done.

The main loser is Cortese, as his trustworthyness is damaged because he did not come clean over the reasons for the decisions, not just over Pardew but over Downes and Murdoch He gave a 'football' reason but did not justify it, leaving some of the fans with an element of doubt over his honesty.

 

Agreed. I find the desire by others to continually try to see more into the situation and refuse to believe the statements made by the club and the manager as quite weird.

 

If there was a gross misconduct charge, why on earth would the club publicly lie to the national press? There is absolutely nothing to gain from the club lying about the reasons why 3 staff have had their contracts terminated. In fact, it would distinctly to the club's disadvantage to do so. The logical course in such an event would have seen Pardew, Downes and Murdoch sacked with no further comment made by the club.

 

Often the case people will just believe what they want to believe, though.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
So in other words the club wouldn't be confident enough in their gross misconduct charge to go to court which in effect means their wasn't really any gross misconduct. In all the places I've worked if you've committed gross misconduct and the employer can prove it your sacked you can't take the employer to court as you don't have a leg to stand on and you certainly don't get a settlement. If your employer can't prove it then they can't sack you for it, you can't be sacked becuase they think you are doing something. Giving Pardew a settlement seems to prove to me that he was sacked for footballing reasons just like almost every other football manager not becuase he was humping his way round staplewood. No way do I buy the Idea that NC a man who picks fights with the press for fun and is very single minded if he feels he is the right is going to worry about bad publicity from the press or back down from a court battle.

 

Look, no offence but you don't know what you're talking about.

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted
Although the reporter hasn't spelt it out in words of one syllable, he is clearly saying that Pardew has agreed how much he will accept to pay up his contract. The 'gross misconduct' rumours are completely unfounded and were always unbelievabel because the club could not sack three people on those grounds unless all had been compliant in the act.

 

As usual with rumours, they were spread by people who claimed a 'reliable source' not by the source themselves and these 'sources' were giving different reasons to different people.

 

So, we move on, Pardew must now be reasonably happy, otherwise he wouldn't have accepted the compensation, although he won't be fully satisfied until he has a new job. The fans are largely satisfied as Adkins looks an OK manager who should achieve at least what Pardew would have done.

The main loser is Cortese, as his trustworthyness is damaged because he did not come clean over the reasons for the decisions, not just over Pardew but over Downes and Murdoch He gave a 'football' reason but did not justify it, leaving some of the fans with an element of doubt over his honesty.

 

So somebody robs a bank and by your reasoning it isn't possible to jail the look-out and the getaway driver as accessories? How do you know that Wally Downes and Murdoch weren't compliant in the act? How do you know that the gross misconduct charges were totally unfounded? And even if they weren't, they were Pardew's men and it is completely normal that the new manager might wish to bring in his own people. So I wouldn't read anything much into that.

 

So the rumours came from reliable sources, but not the sources themselves is your get-out position. So could it not be that the sources were reliable, but could not be revealed because they would jeopardise the employment of the source?

 

I'm not saying for one minute that I have concrete evidence beyond what I had heard from a source that I trust, but neither should you speculate that nothing happened that could be construed as gross miscunduct just because the club settled with Pardew.

 

So quite how you arrive at the conclusion that Cortese's reputation is damaged and that he has been untruthful is beyond me. If he has acted out of expediency to avoid a nasty court battle where mud is slung and the gutter press have a field day, then IMO he will have gone up in many peoples' estimation as a very professional operator.

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Joensuu

Joensuu

Posted
Posted
Agreed. I find the desire by others to continually try to see more into the situation and refuse to believe the statements made by the club and the manager as quite weird.

 

Exactly. So, because we don't know the reasons behind the mutual termination, why do people keep jumping to the assumption that Pardew must have been sacked for football reasons, or because Cortese disliked him?

 

If there was a gross misconduct charge ... [t]he logical course in such an event would have seen Pardew, Downes and Murdoch sacked with no further comment made by the club.

 

Which is pretty much what we have seen. After a deliberately vague media statement there has been nothing but silence on the subject.

 

The truth is, we don't know what happened.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
Exactly. So, because we don't know the reasons behind the mutual termination, why do people keep jumping to the assumption that Pardew must have been sacked for football reasons, or because Cortese disliked him?

 

Which is pretty much what we have seen. After a deliberately vague media statement there has been nothing but silence on the subject.

 

The truth is, we don't know what happened.

 

The "assumption" that Pardew was sacked for footballing reasons comes from the club's statement, where they said:

 

“Following a review of the status in and around the first team, the club has decided that, to achieve its well-known targets, it is essential to make changes to the first-team management and coaching. These targets for sustained and significant progress embrace both the first team and the football development and support centre as integrated, co-operative units."

 

"We recognise that frequent changes to the football management are unlikely to assist in the winning of trophies and promotions.

 

"However, we are taking these steps to achieve our aims, which we share with all supporters, to get promoted this season, and secure long term stability and progress for our football operations."

 

That's pretty clear to me.

 

(Edited to add the full statement)

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