Safe Standing Bill in Parliament - template letter now attached

[bungle]

http://www.bathlibdems.org.uk/news/000380/don_foster_mp_for_bath_introduces_the_safe_standing_bill.html

 

This was introduced in parliament yesterday, which is going to force a debate on safe standing - something a lot of fans (I believe the vast majority) would like to see introduced.

 

Suggest you lobby your MP on this Bill, whichever part of the country you live in- and let others know.

[Gemmel]

I know it's more general than just Saints, but would be interesting to see a poll of our fans who attend matches, that would rather watch the match on terraces as opposed to sitting down.

As someone who grew up on the terraces and always wanted them back,(As im getting on these days) I am not sure I would automatically choose to go back to standing.

[stevegrant]

Poll added

[dune]

Bringing back standing would be a backward step. It will never happen.

[Greenridge]

Would be good to have the option, personally I enjoy sitting down now that I'm getting on a bit!

[Sour Mash]

http://www.bathlibdems.org.uk/news/000380/don_foster_mp_for_bath_introduces_the_safe_standing_bill.html

 

This was introduced in parliament yesterday, which is going to force a debate on safe standing - something a lot of fans (I believe the vast majority) would like to see introduced.

 

Suggest you lobby your MP on this Bill, whichever part of the country you live in- and let others know.

 

I believe you know a bit more about this than most:

 

How do we lobby our MP? Something like a formal letter in support of the bill?

 

What are the chances of this having success? Can't imagine that many MPs truly giving a stuff either way and making the effort to vote or is that not how it works?

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Not sure the poll has the best choice as many would like to sit down butvwouldn't be opposed to a safe standing section of the ground. It's not as if they'd change the whole stadium.

[Gemmel]

Cheers Steve.

I know there is only a few votes so far but pretty much 50 /50 . I thought it would be heavily weighted to standing

[Sour Mash]

Not sure the poll has the best choice as many would like to sit down butvwouldn't be opposed to a safe standing section of the ground. It's not as if they'd change the whole stadium.

 

Exactly. In many ways, the fans that would benefit most from safe standing are those that want to sit down, particularly at away games. Would help prevent the problem of those that want to sit being forced to stand by having people standing infront of them, would help old people, kids etc.

[Fan The Flames]

Bringing back standing would be a backward step. It will never happen.

 

Why would it be a backward step to re-introduce something that there is a demand for.

[JustMike]

Bringing back standing would be a backward step. It will never happen.

 

what a load of rubbish! Save standing works in Germany and is wanted by many.

 

Please explain why you think it would be a backward step

[Simples]

Bringing back standing would be a backward step. It will never happen.

 

Like designing and introducing a new Supersonic Airliner would be a backward step? Re-introduction of old(er) ideas is not always a backward step.

 

I think it would improve the experience for many and the atmosphere in a stadium for most.

[saint.tom.clancy]

I think the poll should be adjusted, I dont see any paticular reason why anyone who doesn't want to stand, would mind if there was a designated standing area. Would definitely add to the atmosphere and anyone who doesn't want to stand can obviously move elsewhere.

[JRM]

Quite clearly EVERYONE would benefit from the re-introduction of safe standing areas. Those that want to stand and sing can do so without the annoyance of a steward barking away in their ear all game, and those who want to sit can go into the seats and enjoy the game hassle free. Would also mean no excuses for standing in seated areas. Taking the kids? Old and find it hard to stand? this is the best outcome for you.

 

I love going to football in Germany, with ability to stand at games proving to be very popular over there and something they have provided for in the new stadia built, I have been to Hamburg, Schalke, grounds which were used in the 2006 World Cup and they have huge standing ends which can be converted to seats for european games. Terrace tickets in Germany are also priced cheaply to keep the game affordable for average man.

 

I'd love to turn up at st marys, go into the terrace, stand with my mates, who can move and stand with you whether or not they are season ticket holders.

 

I am prepared to write to my MP on this, would be great if there was a template letter someone could post a link to on here that we can print, sign, and send and get as many to do this as possible.

 

spread the word.

[Liquidshokk]

Let the Chapel end be the standing end... We could do with a few people shifting over there. Although the Northam stand would be deserted I guess... I agree the poll should be changed. I want to sit down and dont want someone standing in front of me but I couldnt care less if there was a stand full of people standing somewhere else in the stadium

[once_bitterne]

Waste of time. Will never ever happen. The authorities would view the safe standing (a contradiction in terms?) area as a breeding ground for the more unsavoury elements of football behaviour. Hooliganism has been dramatically reduced in recent years and those in power would view safe standing as something that could contribute to in going back to the bad old days.

[JRM]

Waste of time. Will never ever happen. The authorities would view the safe standing (a contradiction in terms?) area as a breeding ground for the more unsavoury elements of football behaviour. Hooliganism has been dramatically reduced in recent years and those in power would view safe standing as something that could contribute to in going back to the bad old days.

 

what like the pitch invasion at all seated st andrews the other week?

 

or the rioting of serbia fans in the all -seater stadium in Genoa?

[dune]

Did the Liberals sign a pre election pledge to support this bill?

[once_bitterne]

what like the pitch invasion at all seated st andrews the other week?

 

or the rioting of serbia fans in the all -seater stadium in Genoa?

 

Exactly, even with hooliganism under control there are still occasional incidents that cause the FA much embarresment to not a chance they will allow something that could be viewed as a breeding ground for hooliganism.

[dune]

what like the pitch invasion at all seated st andrews the other week?

 

or the rioting of serbia fans in the all -seater stadium in Genoa?

 

The point is that reserved seating means that hoodlums cannot gather together so easily and in such large numbers, and because names can be put to seats it makes identification easier.

[stevegrant]

The point is that reserved seating means that hoodlums cannot gather together so easily and in such large numbers, and because names can be put to seats it makes identification easier.

Safe standing embraces exactly the same policy, all tickets issued are for a specific standing spot.

 

And of course, it's easy enough, and entirely legal, for someone to go to a club's ticket office and buy a ticket for a game without handing over their name and address, so the identification "issue" would be no different.

[richie]

Most violence takes place away from the ground.

 

I dont think it would increase if it was introduced.

 

I did some work on this when I was at uni nearly 10 years ago.

 

It is an emminetly sensible idea but I dont see it happening and has worked very well in Germany. The most annoying aspect of this is standing in seated areas is much more dangerous than having safe standing.

[up and away]

I prefer standing and in most all seater stadiums can't see a big issue in implementing a limited proportion for standing. But I can't see a cat in hells chance of getting this through on safety grounds, something I can readily accept.

[Sour Mash]

The point is that reserved seating means that hoodlums cannot gather together so easily and in such large numbers, and because names can be put to seats it makes identification easier.

 

Well we've been able to stand on terrracing at a fair few away games in the last couple of seasons without any problems at all. I take it you won't be going to Peterborough away due to your concerns?

[buctootim]

Agree the poll phrasing misses the point a bit. At present (kids, age etc) I personally would rather sit, but feel strongly all grounds should provide a choice.

[Dr Who?]

Closer than I expected. But I think over time supporters have just become used to seated areas and some of the youth will not even remember terraces at football anyway, and the others are now getting on and want to sit. I would love to see the option!!

[dune]

Well we've been able to stand on terrracing at a fair few away games in the last couple of seasons without any problems at all. I take it you won't be going to Peterborough away due to your concerns?

 

I've stood on the London Road and Glebe Road terrace many times at Peterborough and no problems, but i've also stood on packed terraces and they were unsafe. I used to try to get stood behind a crush barrier.

[buctootim]

I've stood on the London Road and Glebe Road terrace many times at Peterborough and no problems, but i've also stood on packed terraces and they were unsafe. I used to try to get stood behind a crush barrier.

 

But thats an easy problem to fix. You just have more crush barriers, a line on every terrace step, just like in Germany.

[docker-p]

I'm fairly ambivalent to the return of terraces. Ten years ago I would have been bang up for them back. Age I guess.

I would be surprised if terracing is returned in any form, not least because the Police are almost certain to oppose it, not that they have a vote, but would be consulted.

[dune]

But thats an easy problem to fix. You just have more crush barriers, a line on every terrace step, just like in Germany.

 

It's all irrelevent Timothy. They're nt going to bring standing back.

[buctootim]

Kin 'ell Tristram. You are highly placed in the new Government.

[Matthew Le God]

Bringing back standing would be a backward step. It will never happen.

 

"Safe standing" areas has never been in Britain so how is it bringing "it" back?

 

This works very well in Germany and is completely different to traditional terracing. In any case terracing still exists all over Britain in lower league grounds.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

I've stood on the London Road and Glebe Road terrace many times at Peterborough and no problems, but i've also stood on packed terraces and they were unsafe. I used to try to get stood behind a crush barrier.

 

Most sensible people would stand in front of said barrier on the terraces so they would not be crushed by people surging forward from behind them.

[dune]

Most sensible people would stand in front of said barrier on the terraces so they would not be crushed by people surging forward from behind them.

 

That is what I meant.

[trousers]

My answerr to the poll is "it depends". For example, if I was to attend a "local Derby" (e.g. vs Bournemouth ;-) ) with a friend then I'd prefer to stand up and soak up the atmospjere whereas if I'm going to watch Brentford with my 9 year old son (for example) then I'd prefer to sit.

 

Perhaps the poll should be phrased more generically along the lines of whether we'd like to see standing return as an option or keep all seater stadiums rather than as a personal preference question. I suspect you'd gt a different result eitehr way.

[bungle]

I think the poll misses the point as well. A return to having standing areas would be a benefit to those who want to sit down, as there'd be no risk of standing in seated areas.

 

For all those who say "this will never happen", you are doing your own cause a disservice. This is a good bill, and pressure on MPs in whatever part of the country will be important. Of course, if it becomes law there are still other issues (cost), but none of those will be dealt with until it is legally possible.

 

For those wanting help/advice lobbying their MPs, I am hoping to produce a bit of a template later on today.

 

The Independent newspaper will be running this story tomorrow.

[SuperMikey]

Would love to see a standing area at SMS, maybe take the seats out of Block 41 and have a barrier at the front of each row? That area would easily sell out every game.

[Matthew Le God]

My answerr to the poll is "it depends". For example, if I was to attend a "local Derby" (e.g. vs Bournemouth ;-) ) with a friend then I'd prefer to stand up and soak up the atmospjere whereas if I'm going to watch Brentford with my 9 year old son (for example) then I'd prefer to sit.

 

Perhaps the poll should be phrased more generically along the lines of whether we'd like to see standing return as an option or keep all seater stadiums rather than as a personal preference question. I suspect you'd gt a different result eitehr way.

 

The safe standing areas in German stadiums still have seating(it just folds away even more so than in all seater stadiums) because they have to for European matches.

[Mao Cap]

I believe that official statistics show no more incidents at lower-league grounds with terracing than all-seater grounds. In Germany they head off any potential trouble in any case by placing the away terracing up the other end of the ground from the home end. The makeup of fans over there is not much different to that of England, but anyone after grief goes looking for it outside before or after the game. Terracing makes no difference on that score.

 

The controls on the number of fans allowed onto standing areas in the lower leagues is also much stricter than it was even ten years ago, let alone in 1989. Ironically, the nearest thing you see to a surge these days are during more intense goal celebrations (last-minute winners etc.) in seated stands, when people come into the aisles to get down to the front (mind you I like them and all, but that's not the point).

 

Safety, crowd trouble, convenience - none of the arguments against this hold any weight whatsoever.

[Mao Cap]

Also this poll is also the number of people that would simply like to watch games from standing areas themselves. If the question was, say "Would you be concerned if 20% of grounds were standing areas?" I think the proportion in favour of standing areas would be near to 90-100%.

 

I can't think of any earthly reason why fans who prefer to sit would object to other people standing in their own area; if anything, these folk should be the fiercest advocates of standing areas. I can't remember the last time I couldn't get up the back and stand at any home or away match, but the up-down nonsense in many places would have been a constant irritation if I wanted to sit.

 

Also, good man Bungle. I assume you had some part in this?

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Would it simply be a case of removing the seats and just putting number in their place? Or would the stand itself have to be adjusted?

[Wilko]

Go on The Don and well done to Matt, who I'm sure had something to do with this.

[Lighthouse]

Would be good to have a safe standing area. Can't see why people vote against it, there are plenty of seats around if you don't want to stand.

[stevegrant]

Would it simply be a case of removing the seats and just putting number in their place? Or would the stand itself have to be adjusted?

Not 100% sure, some of the stadia in Germany are really steep (Dortmund, for example) while others are the complete opposite (Stuttgart).

[Brussels Saint]

I voted seats as probably thats where I would go, but I would love to see a standing area back at one end of the ground as it should help hugely with atmosphere. The entire Chapel perhaps could be converted and I'm sure many of the existing season ticket holders would move there just to stand.

[JackanorySFC]

I've just sent a lenghy email to Chris Huhne, my MP asking him to support his colleague in the bill. For any Eastleigh Borough residents: chris@chrishuhne.org.uk

 

I would suggest though, that all Southampton residents really lay it on thick with Denham and Whitehead - make sure they don't bring party politics into it and abstain or repel the vote as it was rought in by a Lib Dem!

 

Southampton Test: alan@alan-whitehead.org.uk

Southampton Itchen: john@johndenham.org.uk

[100%Red&White]

Would love to see a standing area at SMS, maybe take the seats out of Block 41 and have a barrier at the front of each row? That area would easily sell out every game.

 

If, and I would love to see it happen, safe terracing was introduced, it wouldn't be just a single block as those chosing to sit in the neighbouring blocks would spend half the match looking someone's arse. At SMS It would have to be an entire end or an upper section, as it is now, and to make it work for totally would have to wrap round the corners too. That must be an area presently of about 6,000 seats.

[Our Claus]

Before you all get too excited at the prospect of this Bill actually getting anywhere in Parliament, you should know that it has almost ZERO chance of ever being debated again, let alone actually progressing through the various stages needed for it to become law.

 

Its whats called a 'Ten Minute Rule' Bill (because the MP gets 10 minutes to talk about it) - and once its been presented, it goes to the bottom of the list of Private Members' Bills for Parliament to consider. Parliament considers Private Members' Bills over 13 Fridays each year, which means that unless the Bill is near the top of the list it has almost no chance at all of getting anywhere. There are already at least 20 Bills on the list before 10-Minute Bills start getting introduced. Your MP will probably never get a chance to do anything about this Bill.

 

With very few exceptions, 10-Minute Bills are just a way of getting a little bit of publicity for a cause rather than a serious attempt to change the law.

 

Don't mean to spoil all of your enthusiasm, but just thought you might all like to know...

[eurosaint]

Like others, I have to say that this poll cannot give a true reflection of our views, it purely states a preference of sitting or standing !

Nowadays I am happy to sit peacefully in the Kingsland but actually feel quite strongly that a 'safe standing' area should be available to those who wish to use it !

It is not beyond the wit of man to have barriers and crowd limits which allow supporters to enjoy the match (and the atmosphere) which they pay for !

It really bugs me that the 'blazers' from the FA (and politicians) arbitralily decide that seating is the only safe way to watch a football match when most of them have only ever sat in the directors box !

Mods, please change the poll to a) I want all seater stadiums ! b) I prefer to have 'safe standing' areas in part of the stadium !

Although I am a confirmed 'sitter', I would vote b !

[Mao Cap]

^^^ very true.

 

At the moment though I think the main thing for those enthusiastic about this issue is to raise its profile. The arguments in favour of safe standing areas are so valid that it's not winning the debate that's the problem, it's enough people banging on about it until the powers that be start to take notice. If it got through to the government that this could be an essentially free way of gaining the goodwill of a few voters and enhancing their libertarian anti-nanny state credentials then they'd quickly get on board. This particular socialist dinosaur might even acquire a grudging respect for them

 

TBH, if they just permitted a varying proportion of seated stands to stand (if you follow me) and enforced the current rules in the front half then I and most people would be perfectly happy. It's just the whole weekly, uppy-downy charade with stewards (in my experience mostly sound people who have to take a lot of unnecessary grief when they could be concentrating their efforts on far more worthwhile aspects of crowd control) that bugs me the most.

 

Ooh, third post and I'm out.