The start of the decline...

[Alanh]

For me the start of our decline came when Killer got injured. The confidence in the team seemed to ebb away from that point and none of the efforts of successive managers, players and boards have been able to reverse that downward trend (with the exception of the play-off season) since then.

 

There have been many incompetent actions / decisions taken since Killer injury (Wigley's appointment, D&G's caretaker time, not culing the playing staff in summer 07) but I believe Killer's injury was the start of the decline.

[dubai_phil]

Have we had the It's Crouchie's fault one yet? When he didn't take the ball into the corner and we would have had the points we needed?

 

Otherwise, we had a policy of only buying players who were BETTER than we had (mainly during Dave Jones's time if I recall rightly)

That somehow changed and we started to buy squad players. Who we then could not get rid of when managers came and went. At one stage we had something getting close to 35/40 players in the squad, and none of them any better than the players the season before.

 

IF you never seek to improve yourself as a person or a business your competitors will and that's what we did.

[saintwarwick]

Were you the person who asked Jackie Kennedy whether apart from the shooting did she enjoy her visit to Dallas??

 

Your devotion to the "facts" ignores the "insignificant" fact that we got relegated under Lowe. I think that this is of much more relevance to the original post on this thread than comparing the mean average of 9 years before Lowe and 9 years after Lowe.

 

Perhaps you need to read posts more carefully, alpine said we were riding high before Lowe came to power and it's been downhill since he arrived. The facts are to show whether you agree or not on the downhill part of his post so is not insignificant to the whole picture. Still if you use the relegation and not the the previous eight years as the only fact then it is not worth discussing.

[alpine_saint]

Perhaps you need to read posts more carefully, alpine said we were riding high before Lowe came to power and it's been downhill since he arrived. The facts are to show whether you agree or not on the downhill part of his post so is not insignificant to the whole picture. Still if you use the relegation and not the the previous eight years as the only fact then it is not worth discussing.

 

No, I didnt.

 

I said "I would have to say this too". As in, the same as whizzpop. Meaning the sale of Wayne Bridge. Meaning, Lowe did this and started the downhill slope.

 

Your interpretation of "I would have to say this too" as meaning an event I had clearly already dismissed, being the start of the downhill, is just so completely a deliberate distortion to start an argument, or you see the world through some pretty tortuous-tinted glasses...

 

In conclusion, you are weird.

[saint1977]

when you look at the teams who have been relegated before and since we need to realise that we did not have a god given right to premiership football.

 

We should have stayed up and could have, but equally we could have easily been relegated before.

 

There have been mistakes by management, players, bad luck etc and of course Lowe has made big mistakes.

 

It is difficult to put things down to one decision, the previuosly made points on bad management are true, as are good decisions like WGS and Hoddle -neither obviuos appointments at the time.

 

As a club our size we could sit anywhere from around 8th in premiership to top 8 of CCC.

We got relegated, it happens, and the rest of the country probably thought it was overdue.

A play off finish again probably would not have surprised the rest of the footballing world.

 

However, we should not be a team struggling to cpmpete in the CCC -both footballing and financially.

 

Very accurate and I particularly agree with the last sentence but we could have been relegated a few times in the 90s, not least 95/96 when a Niall Quinn effort hitting the bar and not going in was the difference between us being at SMS now and probably being in League 2 (or worse) now at the Dell, which would be a real health and safety hazard in the year 2008 had we not moved!

 

Nevertheless, all the boards - Lowe with his silly experiments in 05/06 when the only aim should have been promotion, Wilde's overspend in 06/07 and Crouch signing cheques like Euell's that he really shouldn't have done post-parachute money - have made a pig's ear of it since we went down. When you consider how much we've brought in for players sales too, it is disgraceful and really poor management. I'd also like to ask Wilde why we couldn't get investment before the credit crunch hit (06/07) when we had a strong squad and were a good prospect. Was it the share tangle set up by Guy Askham - so do we need to go back to the mid-90s? Who knows, I'm going to log off and have a pint.

[Wilko]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who spotted this link.

 

Bring back the Saintettes!

 

Journalist's eyes.

[St Landrew]

...I'm going to log off and have a pint.

 

That's vying for the most sensible thing anyone has said all day.

[Toadhall Saint]

The sacking of Sturrock. Killers knee giving out.

[saintjinksie]

I am sure this has been done before, but I'm bored, it's Sunday and I fancy stimulating some debate...

 

My question is this: What single event or action signalled the start of our demise, or sealed our fate in your view? (e.g. could be WGS leaving, Boardroom changes, lack of investment after the cup final, the final whistle after the Man Utd game etc.)

 

For me it's absolutely clear - the appointment of Steve Wigley.

 

Not that I'm heaping all the blame on him - in fact I don't hold anything against Steve at all, if anything he was just an innocent victim of circumstance. But when we appointed him, we still had ample time to turn things around, we had a run of 14 emminently winnable games (I think we one one of them), and we still had a half decent squad. If Lowe had of made a sensible appointment then, I am convinced we'd have a decent chance of being in the Premier League still.

 

From the moment I heard that we'd appointed him (and I will always remember it as I was on a business trip in Germany and had to be convinced by a mate that it wasn't a wind up - given we'd been through this once with Stuart Gray). I sat back and though, "that's it, we're f*cked". And so it proved.

 

U mean if the nob head fans let him employ Hoddle. lowe wanted hoddle but the morons would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces.

[rocknrollman no2]

U mean if the nob head fans let him employ Hoddle. lowe wanted hoddle but the morons would rather cut off their noses to spite their faces.

 

Ok,let me ask you a serious question.

What makes you think Hoddle would have done anything here second time around,when at Wolves he was a complete failure?

[Rebel]

Allegedly.

 

My source is someone who knows the girl. She's quite infamous in the area as a high class Escort (ever go to Piano Bar or Dock Gate 4 and you may know her) and used to do a lot of favours for Agustin and his brother. Turns out 'someone' went round to Agustin's whilst she was there with him and his brother and asked if he could have a go.

 

Of course, this may not be 100% correct, but I do trust my source, but that is my understanding and certainly makes some sense of the situation...

 

I doubt that's true to be honest - WGS and Agustin Delgado were never exactly best mates - after all WGS was more worried about his Yogurt - or was that just a code word for something else!

 

WGS left because he realised he got lucky with the cup final run, because Lowe refused to back him by strengthening the team after reaching the FA Cup final and then the UEFA Cup, that we sold Bridge and were planning to sell Beattie and was also scared of doing a Coventry and getting relegated again!

[Rebel]

As for Hoddle - all he needed to do like Gorman did was admit he made a mistake in leaving Saints the way he did

 

it wasn't the fact he left us for Spurs - as fans we all understood wanting to manage 'your team'- it was the way he left and the when

 

at the end of the season - something like seven games later - we would have applauded him off to the lane and given him the same reception on his return to St Marys as manager of Spurs

 

and then he went and bought Dean Richards that Summer having said he wouldn't take any players with him (at least we got the last laugh there)

 

before he left we were playing some of the best football in a long time and looking like an outside bet for Europe

 

if he'd just held up his hand and said sorry I'd have had him back

 

mind you I don't think they way WGS left was that different

[crouchi]

Formation of the premier league forced out all of the smaller clubs who failed to secure massive investment. We were lucky to hold on for so long.

[Crab Lungs]

Drawing 2-2 v Boro away at the Riverside when we were 2-0 up back in 02-03. That for me was when performances started eeking away.

[Badger]

Drawing 2-2 v Boro away at the Riverside when we were 2-0 up back in 02-03. That for me was when performances started eeking away.

 

Glad someone else detected that turning point(as I also noted,post 35 on the thread).

[saintwarwick]

Formation of the premier league forced out all of the smaller clubs who failed to secure massive investment. We were lucky to hold on for so long.

 

The most sensible post on this thread.

[alpine_saint]

Formation of the premier league forced out all of the smaller clubs who failed to secure massive investment. We were lucky to hold on for so long.

 

If the club had not been run by a mixture of ego, arrogance and incompetence for the last 5 years, we would have "held on" even longer, perhaps to the point where the credit crunch would have started levelling-off the playing field significantly and we could have started competing again.

 

Instead, we're looking over our shoulder and wondering if we will still be in the fixture list for next season in any division, let alone the CCC.

 

So sorry, I disagree..

[John B]

The most sensible post on this thread.

 

Yes I totally agree.

 

SFC has never had the financial clout to compete with the larger Premiership Clubs.

 

The players in the teams we had prior to relegation were in general pretty ordiniary apart from Niemmi Svensson and Beattie when he was interested in playing.

 

It was no real surprise we got relegated.

[St Paul]

Yes I totally agree.

 

SFC has never had the financial clout to compete with the larger Premiership Clubs.

 

The players in the teams we had prior to relegation were in general pretty ordiniary apart from Niemmi Svensson and Beattie when he was interested in playing.

 

It was no real surprise we got relegated.

Have to disagree there. Palace, Norwich and WBA were all pretty poor that season. To go down that year following the Managerial circus was a pretty poor effort compared to other seasons...........

[John B]

Have to disagree there. Palace, Norwich and WBA were all pretty poor that season. To go down that year following the Managerial circus was a pretty poor effort compared to other seasons...........

 

Strange Post I dont understand what you are saying what are you disagreeing with

 

The team and the tactics that was relegated was pretty poor so we were relegated.

 

 

We were better in other seasons and did not get relegated.

 

With no investment our players were ordinary and the team was likely to fail in the long term.

Edited 14 October, 2008 by John B

[Tamesaint]

Strange Post I dont understand what you are saying what are you disagreeing with

 

The team and the tactics that was relegated was pretty poor so we were relegated.

 

 

We were better in other seasons and did not get relegated.

 

With no investment our players were ordinary and the team was likely to fail in the long term.

 

 

Many of those players have subsequently played / are playing in the Premiership with different teams so that team could not have been that bad. - Niemi, Beattie, Crouch, Quashie - even Higgy and Delap are in there now. Even loans like Camara have subsequently played well in the Premiership. A bettter bunch of managers (or even just 1 manager for the season) could have seen us stay up.

[alpine_saint]

Yes I totally agree.

 

SFC has never had the financial clout to compete with the larger Premiership Clubs.

 

The players in the teams we had prior to relegation were in general pretty ordiniary apart from Niemmi Svensson and Beattie when he was interested in playing.

 

It was no real surprise we got relegated.

 

What a load of Grade A, unambitious, get-Lowe-off-the-hook excuse making.

 

The financial climate changed so much that in less than 2 years that we went from 8th to 24th in the financial stakes, did it ?

[JohnnyFartPants]

What a load of Grade A, unambitious, get-Lowe-off-the-hook excuse making.

 

The financial climate changed so much that in less than 2 years that we went from 8th to 24th in the financial stakes, did it ?

 

 

So we are the only team to have a good season followed by a bad one that ends in relegation? **** happens, get over it. His comments about the calibre of our players was pretty much spot on too.

[aintforever]

So we are the only team to have a good season followed by a bad one that ends in relegation? **** happens, get over it. His comments about the calibre of our players was pretty much spot on too.

 

I disagree, I think the squad we had that season would have kept us up comfortably it we hadn't have gone through Lowe's mad managerial merry-go-round.

 

This was a season where an incredibly poor West Brom side managed to stay up with, in Brian Robson, one of the Worlds ****test managers in charge. With players like Crouch, Beattie, Phillips, Camara etc with ONE half decent manager in charge we could have stayed up with ease IMO.

 

the fact that we still had a chance final day, even after all Lowe's dicking about says it all IMO.

[saint1977]

I disagree, I think the squad we had that season would have kept us up comfortably it we hadn't have gone through Lowe's mad managerial merry-go-round.

 

This was a season where an incredibly poor West Brom side managed to stay up with, in Brian Robson, one of the Worlds ****test managers in charge. With players like Crouch, Beattie, Phillips, Camara etc with ONE half decent manager in charge we could have stayed up with ease IMO.

 

the fact that we still had a chance final day, even after all Lowe's dicking about says it all IMO.

 

There is a lot of truth in that and Lowe was the main culprit, along with the players, for relegation. We ****ed away a lot of winnable home games in autumn 2004 and by 2005, had most of the big sides still to visit.

 

However, we wouldn't have lasted long without sorting out the tangled shareholdings which have seemingly blocked investors - not the tyre-kicking LLS variety in the last couple of years but I'm going back even to Sanderson's interest in the mid-90s and what I believe was a very real prospect from Sir David Frost. That isn't Lowe's fault but Askham, Wiseman and Richard's. We're also forgetting how Roman "I'm big mates with Putin" Abramovich has skewed English football so badly, the money was silly before he came but that ****** destroyed English football and it was a disaster the day he arrived. The purchase of Wayne Bridge started to weaken the links between team and fans IMO although Rupert had no choice as Wayne wanted to go and with Le Saux's wages paid, it was effectively £11m+

[saintwarwick]

What a load of Grade A, unambitious, get-Lowe-off-the-hook excuse making.

 

The financial climate changed so much that in less than 2 years that we went from 8th to 24th in the financial stakes, did it ?

 

So we are the only team to have a good season followed by a bad one that ends in relegation? **** happens, get over it. His comments about the calibre of our players was pretty much spot on too.

 

I remember Man Utd getting relegated 2 years after finishing 8th. Alpine thinks we are the only club where sh1t happens.

[alpine_saint]

I remember Man Utd getting relegated 2 years after finishing 8th. Alpine thinks we are the only club where sh1t happens.

 

Not at all. Only it happened to us due to sheer incompetence and arrogance.

 

And I fail to see what a Manyoo season half-a-lifetime away has to do with this.

[Crab Lungs]

Glad someone else detected that turning point(as I also noted,post 35 on the thread).

 

Ha, I think there is three of us believe that too! (Chez being the other, I think)

 

Anyway, up until then we'd been playing champagne football and looked, quite literally, unstoppable - I'd never seen a Saints team quite like it. We just battered teams (I think what kickedstarted the form was the 4-2 win against Fulham at home, Beattie hattrick)... but after being stitched up at the Riverside, we only once or twice truly reproduced that form properly (Spurs FA Cup, home and Leeds, home in the league)... and even then it kinda felt like the wheels had come off for some reason.

 

Weird how me, you and Chez all detected something seemingly so insiginificant as the start of our "downfall"

 

Going to have a lookie at your post now...

[saintwarwick]

Not at all. Only it happened to us due to sheer incompetence and arrogance.

 

And I fail to see what a Manyoo season half-a-lifetime away has to do with this.

 

Quite simple, it can happen to anyone, I chose Man Utd because their record was similar, we both finished 8th and two seasons later were relegated (we finished 20th, they finished 23rd).

[alpine_saint]

Quite simple, it can happen to anyone, I chose Man Utd because their record was similar, we both finished 8th and two seasons later were relegated (we finished 20th, they finished 23rd).

 

This theory that it can happen to anyone because it happened to Manyoo is utter nonsense.

 

It happened to Manyoo in the 70's because at that time Manyoo were shiite.

 

A club like Manyoo would never fall so far, the analogy is codswallop because we have never scaled the heights they have.

 

:rolleyes:

[AndyNorthernSaints]

Ha, I think there is three of us believe that too! (Chez being the other, I think)

 

Anyway, up until then we'd been playing champagne football and looked, quite literally, unstoppable - I'd never seen a Saints team quite like it. We just battered teams (I think what kickedstarted the form was the 4-2 win against Fulham at home, Beattie hattrick)... but after being stitched up at the Riverside, we only once or twice truly reproduced that form properly (Spurs FA Cup, home and Leeds, home in the league)... and even then it kinda felt like the wheels had come off for some reason.

 

Weird how me, you and Chez all detected something seemingly so insiginificant as the start of our "downfall"

 

Going to have a lookie at your post now...

 

 

Was it Ellery who gave boro a dodgy pen that changed the game and a unstoppable shot from Whelan if i remember correctly? seem to remember singing "it's just like watching brazil" when 2-0 up. Seems a very long time ago now.

[JohnnyFartPants]

This theory that it can happen to anyone because it happened to Manyoo is utter nonsense.

 

It happened to Manyoo in the 70's because at that time Manyoo were shiite.

 

A club like Manyoo would never fall so far, the analogy is codswallop because we have never scaled the heights they have.

 

:rolleyes:

 

The analogy is even more fitting given that EVEN a team like Man Utd are capable of falling down a division, despite the heights they may have climbed. It's not hard to see, surely?

[um pahars]

Was it Ellery who gave boro a dodgy pen that changed the game and a unstoppable shot from Whelan if i remember correctly? seem to remember singing "it's just like watching brazil" when 2-0 up. Seems a very long time ago now.

 

I can certainly remember turning around and telling people that we really shouldn't be singing that song as this was Saints we were watching.

 

Remember that day as being freezing, and yet despite surrendering a 2 nil lead being rather happy, mainly because of the £1 pints and strippers on that boat moored next to the ground.

 

But not sure it was all downhill from that point onwards.

 

From memory that game was early 2003, and we ceratainly had some ups after that point and finished that calendar year winning away at Anfield an dbeing well up the league.

[John B]

Many of those players have subsequently played / are playing in the Premiership with different teams so that team could not have been that bad. - Niemi, Beattie, Crouch, Quashie - even Higgy and Delap are in there now. Even loans like Camara have subsequently played well in the Premiership. A bettter bunch of managers (or even just 1 manager for the season) could have seen us stay up.

 

You need a squad of at least eighteen high quality players we had four or five

[saintwarwick]

This theory that it can happen to anyone because it happened to Manyoo is utter nonsense.

 

It happened to Manyoo in the 70's because at that time Manyoo were shiite.

 

A club like Manyoo would never fall so far, the analogy is codswallop because we have never scaled the heights they have.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Here's another for you, Norwich in the nineties finished 3rd and were relegated 2 years later. As I say it can happen to anyone and I have now given you two instances. No doubt you will make an excuse for Norwich without substance just like Man Utd.

](*,)

Edited 14 October, 2008 by saintwarwick

[Tamesaint]

You need a squad of at least eighteen high quality players we had four or five

 

 

4 or 5? I have named 7 who have since gone on to play quite happily in the Premiership. Add the likes of Telfer (who went on to play in the Champions League) , Le Saux , Phillips and there is no way that that squad should have been relegated.

 

If we had stuck with just one manager that season, if we had not appointed Wigley , if we had not then appointed a disinterested manager like Rednapp the players that we had would have had no trouble staying up that season.

 

The managerial merry go round was what did it for us...and we all know who was responsible for that.

[dubai_phil]

For those with long memories of matchday reports.

 

I think it was around Christmas when WGS was in charge and we played away at Newcastle. We went expecting a result but were awful.

 

In his post match comments WGS was very down, and used a particular line that I still remember

 

"There are Dark Forces at work within the club"

 

I think the article was in the Telegraph. Never worked out what it was referring to, allegations could include the wife swapping, a drugs problem, or outside interference, but the choice of words seemed very odd at the time. I found this link :-

 

After the defeat by Newcastle, Strachan said he had not known such a depressing run of form in his two years at the club. Yet amid rumours of dressing-room dissent fomented by a few troublemakers - the midfielders Anders Svensson and Fabrice Fernandes reportedly to the fore

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/southampton-struggle-to-cast-out-dark-forces-572387.html

 

But a historian may remember the article and one day someone will bump into WGS in Tesco's and can ask him what he really meant.

 

It was not long after that we heard the first mumblings that he may not renew his contract

[sadoldgit]

Not at all. Only it happened to us due to sheer incompetence and arrogance.

 

And I fail to see what a Manyoo season half-a-lifetime away has to do with this.

 

Here we go again. Go check the other teams that have gone down over the years apart from Man U. Spurs, Leeds, Notts Forest etc. And gues what, not one of those clubs had Lowe as CEO.

 

It was always going to happen to us at some point and how it didn't happen before I don't know. Goodness knows where we would have ended up without MLT for all those years.

 

Most years it seemed that the pundits were tipping us for relegation, even Dave Jones quipped that he thought we were called "Struggling Southampton".

 

Face it, we were a small club with a long histroy in the top flight whose day was going to come and did, just like a host of others clubs our size.

[Tamesaint]

Here we go again. Go check the other teams that have gone down over the years apart from Man U. Spurs, Leeds, Notts Forest etc. And gues what, not one of those clubs had Lowe as CEO.

 

It was always going to happen to us at some point and how it didn't happen before I don't know. Goodness knows where we would have ended up without MLT for all those years.

 

Most years it seemed that the pundits were tipping us for relegation, even Dave Jones quipped that he thought we were called "Struggling Southampton".

 

Face it, we were a small club with a long histroy in the top flight whose day was going to come and did, just like a host of others clubs our size.

 

 

But it is always more likely that a team will be relegated if its board ends up appointing 3 permanent managers in the same season like we did.

 

Charlton managed the same feat a couple of years later. they clearly had not learntfrom Lowe's folly.

[alpine_saint]

But it is always more likely that a team will be relegated if its board ends up appointing 3 permanent managers in the same season like we did.

 

Charlton managed the same feat a couple of years later. they clearly had not learntfrom Lowe's folly.

 

Indeed. I somewhat pity the desperation of certain individuals frantically digging through the anals of footballing history to say "See ? We're no worse than xxx team" in order to divert attention away from or excuse Lowe's incompetence.

Edited 14 October, 2008 by alpine_saint

[saintjinksie]

Ok,let me ask you a serious question.

What makes you think Hoddle would have done anything here second time around,when at Wolves he was a complete failure?

 

what makes me think he would have done better than wigley is the real question though. Any mug would have been better thah wigley and hoddle would have got us the three or four points we needed to stay up.

[edisaint]

Indeed. I somewhat pity the desperation of certain individuals frantically digging through the anals of footballing history to say "See ? We're no worse than xxx team" in order to divert attention away from or excuse Lowe's incompetence.

 

And I pity the desperation of certain individuals who write thousands and thousands of posts, utterly determined to view things in the most simple-minded terms possible.

 

It's Lowe's fault, it's Burley's fault, it's Lowe's fault again and on and on you go....

[alpine_saint]

And I pity the desperation of certain individuals who write thousands and thousands of posts, utterly determined to view things in the most simple-minded terms possible.

 

It's Lowe's fault, it's Burley's fault, it's Lowe's fault again and on and on you go....

 

You dont have to read them. I will blame the people whose incompetence got us relegated and whose incompetence blew the clubs wealth with zero return, and you and your ilk can carry on blaming the Muffin Man...

[edisaint]

You dont have to read them. I will blame the people whose incompetence got us relegated and whose incompetence blew the clubs wealth with zero return, and you and your ilk can carry on blaming the Muffin Man...

 

I generally don't spend much time on this board because I find the relentless simple-minded negativity of you and your ilk utterly depressing. For instance, I would say that contributory factors for our relegation were... every club our size eventually gets relegated, 3 managers in a season, a failure to hold onto leads, key injuries, Redknapp not wanting to be here, etc, etc, etc. I've posted a longer list on a thread in the past. You simply blame Lowe and refuse to even consider the possibility that it might be more complex. Your last comment is enlightening though - shows how you view things - Somebody Must Be BLAMED!

[alpine_saint]

I generally don't spend much time on this board because I find the relentless simple-minded negativity of you and your ilk utterly depressing. For instance, I would say that contributory factors for our relegation were... every club our size eventually gets relegated, 3 managers in a season, a failure to hold onto leads, key injuries, Redknapp not wanting to be here, etc, etc, etc. I've posted a longer list on a thread in the past. You simply blame Lowe and refuse to even consider the possibility that it might be more complex. Your last comment is enlightening though - shows how you view things - Somebody Must Be BLAMED!

 

And I make no apologies for that. The person who gets paid a huge amount to run the company and awards himself generous dividends in good times takes the responsibility and falls on his sword in bad times. Especially as much of our downfall was completely avoidable (I do NOT buy into this theory that relegation was inevitable somewhen - its defeatist comfortable excuse-making bollllocks) It goes with the territory, and Lowe knows the game as well as anyone, and chose to run SFC like a service-providing company with the fans as its custom-base; despite his recent efforts to blame everything on Crouch, the financial issues started when we were relegated, not later.

 

As I indicated yesterday, people trying to define the events as having been "complex" are making pathetic excuses. Our entire problems have been down to power greed and ego.

[Badger]

Another episode which I believe left the club on the ropes for a while, if not mortally wounded,as events turned out over the next three months was the 'Strachan to Leeds' saga.

 

Whilst not on its own as significant as some of the other factors listed on this thread it became tedious and many at the club seemed exhausted by it.It wasn't particularly well handled by the two leading characters at SMS in the saga either, Rupert or WGS.

 

If anything I think WGS is more blameworthy than Lowe, a simple unequivocal "not interested" or "not going" from him would have culled it.The fact it drifted for a while with only a "we don't comment on speculation" line from the club,suggested - to me anyway -a strain in relationships at SFC.I didn't buy the not 'dancing to the media's tune' ********,nor the RL/WGS 'hug in' against Chelsea.

[EFM]

1-4 down at Fartton, humiliated, and pathetic like never before, (live on tv as if it could be even more humiliating for our fans) with 10 minutes to go and Claus has a little laugh and joke with some skate player over whose throw in it is. No rush Claus, it's only the most important game of the season here. No passion from a single player that day. Horrific.

 

That's when I knew we would never be like Saints again.

[St Landrew]

And I make no apologies for that. The person who gets paid a huge amount to run the company and awards himself generous dividends in good times takes the responsibility and falls on his sword in bad times... despite his recent efforts to blame everything on Crouch, the financial issues started when we were relegated, not later.

 

Whilst I, myself have cited events which led to the relegation and therefore, the decline in Saints fortunes, it should not be forgotten that since relegation and his removal, Rupert Lowe has waited his chance to undermine those in the driving seat. Yes, there has been misplaced money, and belief placed on people who were not upto the job - Burley was who's appointment..? But not every error in the financial sense, in fact not even most errors can be placed outside Leon Crouch's door. LC did what he could, in the best way he knew how. He was not the first SFC chairman found wanting.

 

I defended RL the other day, but he's by no means clear of blame for Saints decline. And it would be a good idea if people stopped for a short while to sort the rumour from the logic and the fact, and get a few things into perspective. Saints have declined because they have been cheapskate when it mattered most to spend money. Saints have always had a tendancy to be cheapskate. It's why they didn't win the League in 1980, but came 7th. It's why Lawrie left to go elsewhere in the mid 80's, and it's why they didn't build on the success of WGS. They didn't do a Leeds. They didn't leave the Premiership kicking and fighting to stay in. They left it without a murmur. Whenever it has been the right time for the Saints board to do their jobs, they've been found wanting. And a lot of good professionals have had to take the blame instead. Saints have simply lacked ambition when it was almost easier to succeed.

[orange_bud]

I think the start of our decline was moving to st mary's and losing that 'not a nice place to go' reputation we had at the dell.

 

I know we had to leave and st mary's is a great stadium but for me the dell was the twelfth man that kept us in the top flight all those years

[orange_bud]

1-4 down at Fartton, humiliated, and pathetic like never before, (live on tv as if it could be even more humiliating for our fans) with 10 minutes to go and Claus has a little laugh and joke with some skate player over whose throw in it is. No rush Claus, it's only the most important game of the season here. No passion from a single player that day. Horrific.

 

That's when I knew we would never be like Saints again.

Think I remember that, it was delap wasnt it ?

 

I hope so anyway