Time is now up for Lowe & Wilde

[Long Shot]

4 years ago, all but a month, Rupert Lowe suddenly woke up to the fact that we were a club in freefall and sacked Wigley to replace him with "Sir Harry Hotspur" but it was too late and we went down. The writing had been on the wall ever since the appointment of Sturrock but Lowe’s stubbornness to recognise the signs cost us dear. Throughout that Wigley autumn he referred to our slide down the table “as just a blip”. 4 years on we are still a club in freefall and 4 years on Lowe’s stubbornness is set to inflict more pain on Southampton FC. Is there any hope - or do we all sit back and watch it happen?

 

Our last day survival v Sheffield United could have been the turning point for this club but Lowe was not prepared to give it a chance. Leon Crouch had appointed a well-thought of, inexpensive young manager who was already turning things around in terms of attitude, fitness and pride. Barclays were happy that the rot had stopped and steps were being put in place to address the financial problems. The executives and Michael Wilde had had their day (as had Lowe) and had been found wanting. There was a glimmer of hope that perhaps, just perhaps the corner had been turned. But Lowe had other ideas and a two-pronged reason to oust Crouch and form an unlikely alliance with his erstwhile foe, Michael Wilde. First the pair of them had to protect their investment. Crouch’s interest in his investment was never as important to him and that worried them. Secondly of course both men had egos and scores to settle even if it got in the way of the club making progress.

 

Lowe had long fancied the role of DoF with a puppet like head coach underneath him. The Runnymede minutes and revelations by former board members confirm this. So he takes advantage of the opt out clause with Pearson and appoints a Dutch duo first recommended by Sir Clive Woodward. Poorvliet is way out of his depth but he is cheap and malleable – perfect for Lowe’s plan. But the plan is flawed. Sure, some high earners needed to be moved on but a lot of it is false economy. Stern John’s departure this week a classic example. True he was on a big wage but you watch the gate dip on Tuesday because fans have had enough watching the likes of BWP and David McGoldrick struggle to score. His departure proves that businessman Lowe is not that canny. Saving a few thousand on wages which will now be lost on the gate is not sound management, not to mention the loss of a 20 goal a season forward.

 

I am also told that JP had not seen any of our new players play before signing them and that being the case is it any surprise he is finding it hard to mould them into a decent cohesive unit. Especially when he is told who to pick and who not to. The ridiculous way he has had to persevere with David McGoldrick on Lowe’s instructions is farcical in terms of morale and team building.

 

So what is the answer – do we all accept our fate? Is there an alternative? Rumour has it Crouch is still prepared to put some money in the club to help stave of administration and others too maybe willing but not if Lowe and Wilde remain in charge without dipping their hands in their private pockets. The time has come for both men to realise they are now the problem. Barclays were much happier with Crouch’s stewardship and with Wilde and Lowe gone it is still not too late to halt the rot. There is an AGM approaching and I expect there will be some movement behind the scenes, but even that may be too late. The “total football experiment” needs to be abandoned – we need to appoint a decent manager who knows how the CCC works and the two tainted Chairmen need to do the decent thing and fall on their swords. I am sure, then, people will step forward to steady the ship.

[Mole]

The Runnymede minutes and revelations by former board members confirm this.

 

Please post up these infamous minutes for those of us who are not ITK.

[fos1]

That long shot hast to be the "post of the season" spot on !!!

I do think that Barclays should call for Lowe to step down before the the situation gets any worse.

As I understand it Lowe has upset them big time with the overdraft increasing.

[Mole]

SLH PLC expects to release its audited accounts in October.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10348

[VectisSaint]

SLH PLC expects to release its audited accounts in October.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=10348

But the accounts will tell us nothing of use, as they are for the y/e 30 June 2008., i.e. they will contain nothing that pertains to Lowe's financial bunglings. But they will be used to undermine Crouch, despite the fact that Crouch will have only had stewardship for about5 months out of the 12, the previous 6 having been with the Wilde BUnch.

 

The first useful figures will be available in January 2009 when we will start to see the depths to which Lowe and Wilde have taken us.

[benjii]

Long Shot, great summary of the situation.

[Snowballs2]

Please post up these infamous minutes for those of us who are not ITK.

 

I have asked for this before and nobody will do it, why ?

[Viking Warrior]

Im not suprised there is so much negativity this morning.

 

A number of our fans have such a negative view point when it comes to a run of bad results.

 

For me this season is a continum of last season, in that we are still struggling. It does not matter whether it is Hone, crouch or lowe at the helm

we are in a mess end of.

 

Getting rid of Lowe without any sound replacement is a very poor excuse to get rid of some one.

 

I suspect that long shot is one of the SISA disciples referring to the so called runnymede minutes.

Dont take this the wrong way long shot either put up or shut up. Put the minutes onto this list if you have them instead of quoting certain parts to suit your motives.

 

Back to the club, We are in a mess, Barclays bank are calling the shots and I suspect they will sacrifice football clubs such as ourselves to keep their shareholders happy.

Equally where is Fulthorpe and Merrington when we need them the most.

Merrington has been intimating that the takeover is near.

I have not heard him say it directly as I have only read this on this forum

 

Perhaps Merrington could be better emplyed using his social worker background to counsel most of us dejected and depressed fans. If he charged a fee then possibly he could afford to by the club!!!

 

I am trying to keep the faith, I will never give up supporting saints.

I believe we will be okay in due course, I hope it is sooner rather than later.

 

If we were to get relegated , so be it. Im not sure that will be the case. there is a long way to go and historically November has always been a good month for us in terms of winning games

 

Try and be positive fellow fans don't let the negative brigade get under your skin. its not healthy but as I have said already I dont like what is happening but this constant abuse of the club is not helping matters

[Badger]

I don't think either will leave willingly,or be forced out simply because there is no strong unified group to oust them.As food for thought would we be any bettter off if Wilde decided to realign with Crouch ?

 

It is interesting to draw comparisons with the Wigley fiasco though,and I have been wondering for a week or so now,which way can Lowe now turn ?

 

And lets remember any change must be done with the prime concern that Rupert can do it without losing face.

 

Just as with Wigley,Rupert has made an appointment (in JP) which is starting to look risky.Both appointments were made with a bit of a fanfare in heralding something new,and even revolutionary.With 'wartface',it was giving an up and coming coach a chance as 'head coach' etc.It was a ridiculous gamble and obvious that wartface was simply never going to be up to the job.We now have the "revolutionary coaching set up ",with two Dutch blokes.I actually think this as a strategy is something which might work....but it was put in place at the wrong time.

 

Trouble is after Lowe publicly nails his colours to a mast he is forced to leave it running too long before making a change.

 

Lowe has tried different strategies.We have had:

 

a)The up and coming young managers ie Jones and Sturrock.

 

b)The rehabilitation of fallen names ie Hoddle,Burley and Redkrapp.But who is out there now that is affordable within this category ?

 

c)Promoting from within,disaster twice ie Gray,and Wigley.Rupert could not try this again with Hockaday could he ?

 

d)The continental approach with the youth team.

 

WGS was a succesful RL appointment so if Rupert is "thinking Scottish" then maybe Davies will be on Ruperts radar,assuming we can afford to pay compensation to the Krankies.

 

Summary :I think there is more likely to be change at the club by Lowe,than Lowe leaving.Sorry.

[1976_Child]

Stern was put out on loan because we could not afford his weekly wages.

 

Let's suppose he is on £10,000 per week. Quite possibly. There is a home game every other week (on average). The average adult will pay £24 for a ticket and £6 on beer/pies/program etc.

 

So simple maths:

 

(£10,000 / £30) * 2 = 666

 

(the multiply by two is to factor in that a home game every other week)

 

So my point is that if only and additional 666 adult, non-season ticket holders, now decide not to bother going to the home games because stern has gone then the net financial saving of giving him to Bristol is precisely zero. Well done Lowe. Another well thought out loan deal to save us money. Does Lowe ever bother to look at the income situation alongside the expenses and determine that there might just be a correlation?

 

Pathetic.

[dubai_phil]

I have asked for this before and nobody will do it, why ?

 

Simple

 

Allegedly supplied by a source who is believed to have spent a few months studying earlobes and handwriting on used memo pads in 10 different hotels within 20 miles of Runnymede and who isn't Trousers

 

The parties agreed to the meeting being minuted.

Minutes were taken.

A party didn't wish that the minutes should be published as that was different from having a record of the event.

The minutes were not published or circulated or signed and so did not become minutes so became ITK speculation.

People associated with the meeting were more discrete and professional than previous ITK'ers

 

HTH

[Wes Tender]

Im not suprised there is so much negativity this morning.

 

A number of our fans have such a negative view point when it comes to a run of bad results.

 

That's not rocket science, is it? There are similarly a lot of negative people out there because the economy has gone tits up too. When, if ever we turn a corner and hit a run of good results, I'm sure that the negativity will be replaced with a more positive attitude.

 

For me this season is a continum of last season, in that we are still struggling. It does not matter whether it is Hone, crouch or lowe at the helm

we are in a mess end of.

 

And things are exacerbated because two of the past failures as Chairman are back in tandem.

 

Getting rid of Lowe without any sound replacement is a very poor excuse to get rid of some one.

 

Is it? There are several people out there who could do a better job of running this PLC than Lowe and the Quisling. They don't have to be shareholders either, merely act on behalf of the shareholders. If they weren't so devisive of the PLC's customer base that would be a plus for a start.

 

I suspect that long shot is one of the SISA disciples referring to the so called runnymede minutes.

 

SISA? I thought that was SOS.

 

Dont take this the wrong way long shot either put up or shut up. Put the minutes onto this list if you have them instead of quoting certain parts to suit your motives.

 

Back to the club, We are in a mess, Barclays bank are calling the shots and I suspect they will sacrifice football clubs such as ourselves to keep their shareholders happy.

 

I suspect that in our current financial climate, they will attempt to get some sort of return from their loans to us first.

 

Equally where is Fulthorpe and Merrington when we need them the most.

Merrington has been intimating that the takeover is near.

I have not heard him say it directly as I have only read this on this forum

 

Perhaps they're waiting for things to go further down the pan first, so that they can pick up the club for less, or maybe they really want Lowe and Quisling to f*ck things up royally, so that there is not any residue of support wistfully claiming that Lowe and Wilde could have turned things around if they had more time.

 

Perhaps Merrington could be better emplyed using his social worker background to counsel most of us dejected and depressed fans. If he charged a fee then possibly he could afford to by the club!!!

 

I am trying to keep the faith, I will never give up supporting saints.

I believe we will be okay in due course, I hope it is sooner rather than later.

 

If we were to get relegated , so be it. Im not sure that will be the case. there is a long way to go and historically November has always been a good month for us in terms of winning games

 

Try and be positive fellow fans don't let the negative brigade get under your skin. its not healthy but as I have said already I dont like what is happening but this constant abuse of the club is not helping matters

 

If it forced out Lowe and Wilde it would be a good thing, wouldn't it? Or would you prefer for them to stay until we are either bankrupt, in a lower division, or indeed both?

[AwaySaint1]

Please post up these infamous minutes for those of us who are not ITK.

 

Stanley I thought everyone had read the minutes when they did the PM rounds on the forum when it was first posted.

[AwaySaint1]

That long shot hast to be the "post of the season" spot on !!!

I do think that Barclays should call for Lowe to step down before the the situation gets any worse.

As I understand it Lowe has upset them big time with the overdraft increasing.

 

Well it cant be very nice for our account manager at Barclay's when he has to report to his bosses whats going on at the club.

 

I do wonder what Lowe has been telling them regards assets we hold.

[Viking Warrior]

Wes Tender

 

There are those that are opposed to lowe and wilde at all costs.

Im neither for or against them. Nothing us fans can do is going to chahge that.

It is the shareholders and I being one do not have enough shares to force avote of no confidence. I see nobody waiting in the wings to suggest an EGM

which would cost the club even more money we do not have, So that motion is counter productive.

 

Im sure lowe will sell if there was an interested party but there isnt,

So basically for the time being we are stuffed.

A further change to the board is far from helpful.

 

Supposing fulthorpe and merrington did come in , how long would it be before the usual cohorts on this site start calling for their heads on a plate when there is no further improvement in club fortunes?

 

I suspect the light at the end of the tunnel is more than likely to be the administration train hitting us full on

[Morph]

4 years ago, all but a month, Rupert Lowe suddenly woke up to the fact that we were a club in freefall and sacked Wigley to replace him with "Sir Harry Hotspur" but it was too late and we went down. The writing had been on the wall ever since the appointment of Sturrock but Lowe’s stubbornness to recognise the signs cost us dear. Throughout that Wigley autumn he referred to our slide down the table “as just a blip”. 4 years on we are still a club in freefall and 4 years on Lowe’s stubbornness is set to inflict more pain on Southampton FC. Is there any hope - or do we all sit back and watch it happen?

 

Our last day survival v Sheffield United could have been the turning point for this club but Lowe was not prepared to give it a chance. Leon Crouch had appointed a well-thought of, inexpensive young manager who was already turning things around in terms of attitude, fitness and pride. Barclays were happy that the rot had stopped and steps were being put in place to address the financial problems. The executives and Michael Wilde had had their day (as had Lowe) and had been found wanting. There was a glimmer of hope that perhaps, just perhaps the corner had been turned. But Lowe had other ideas and a two-pronged reason to oust Crouch and form an unlikely alliance with his erstwhile foe, Michael Wilde. First the pair of them had to protect their investment. Crouch’s interest in his investment was never as important to him and that worried them. Secondly of course both men had egos and scores to settle even if it got in the way of the club making progress.

 

Lowe had long fancied the role of DoF with a puppet like head coach underneath him. The Runnymede minutes and revelations by former board members confirm this. So he takes advantage of the opt out clause with Pearson and appoints a Dutch duo first recommended by Sir Clive Woodward. Poorvliet is way out of his depth but he is cheap and malleable – perfect for Lowe’s plan. But the plan is flawed. Sure, some high earners needed to be moved on but a lot of it is false economy. Stern John’s departure this week a classic example. True he was on a big wage but you watch the gate dip on Tuesday because fans have had enough watching the likes of BWP and David McGoldrick struggle to score. His departure proves that businessman Lowe is not that canny. Saving a few thousand on wages which will now be lost on the gate is not sound management, not to mention the loss of a 20 goal a season forward.

 

I am also told that JP had not seen any of our new players play before signing them and that being the case is it any surprise he is finding it hard to mould them into a decent cohesive unit. Especially when he is told who to pick and who not to. The ridiculous way he has had to persevere with David McGoldrick on Lowe’s instructions is farcical in terms of morale and team building.

 

So what is the answer – do we all accept our fate? Is there an alternative? Rumour has it Crouch is still prepared to put some money in the club to help stave of administration and others too maybe willing but not if Lowe and Wilde remain in charge without dipping their hands in their private pockets. The time has come for both men to realise they are now the problem. Barclays were much happier with Crouch’s stewardship and with Wilde and Lowe gone it is still not too late to halt the rot. There is an AGM approaching and I expect there will be some movement behind the scenes, but even that may be too late. The “total football experiment” needs to be abandoned – we need to appoint a decent manager who knows how the CCC works and the two tainted Chairmen need to do the decent thing and fall on their swords. I am sure, then, people will step forward to steady the ship.

 

Very good call sir.

 

Unfortunately we must wait for Lowe and Wilde to fall on their swords. I doubt it will be long.

 

All IMHO of course

 

Kind Regards

 

Morph.

[Wes Tender]

Very good call sir.

 

Unfortunately we must wait for Lowe and Wilde to fall on their swords. I doubt it will be long.

 

All IMHO of course

 

Kind Regards

 

Morph.

 

Morph...nice to see you again. You don't suspect that some sort of vote of no confidence is being prepared for the AGM perhaps?

[saintjay77]

Stern was put out on loan because we could not afford his weekly wages.

 

Let's suppose he is on £10,000 per week. Quite possibly. There is a home game every other week (on average). The average adult will pay £24 for a ticket and £6 on beer/pies/program etc.

 

So simple maths:

 

(£10,000 / £30) * 2 = 666

 

(the multiply by two is to factor in that a home game every other week)

 

So my point is that if only and additional 666 adult, non-season ticket holders, now decide not to bother going to the home games because stern has gone then the net financial saving of giving him to Bristol is precisely zero. Well done Lowe. Another well thought out loan deal to save us money. Does Lowe ever bother to look at the income situation alongside the expenses and determine that there might just be a correlation?

 

Pathetic.

 

I am guessing we get something out of the deal as that is normal practice even though its not publicised. On top of that there could be an option to buy come Jan or an agreement to buy in Jan which may bring us a few extra bucks in.

 

Either way the option to reduce our outgoings as much as possible and at any cost may be an instruction by the bank so if we get an offer we may just have to accept it. The fact that Lowe is in charge at the time just gives us lot something else to hate him for. Who knows if the same would be happening under Crouch or anyone else?

 

As for the OP's comments, you mentioned many things as if they were fact and it seems many of the things are what Crouch was either suggesting or have said. yet you try to make it sound as though he was a small part in your comments.

 

Crouch also told us that it was Paul Allen that was taking us over and that we didnt need to sell Jones. He also said that we hadnt cashed in on the Theo deal. My point is that Crouch said allot of things and not all of it was true. Any chairman saying we are not skint is usually saying it to keep the vultures away and all our main shareholders have said similar at various times so I wont use that as a stick to beat them with. But to cherry pick the comments that were utter arse from any of them is just as ridiculas as thinking we are on the verge of being taken over.

 

We are not an attractive proposition while we are in free fall. We have no main shareholders that have our confidence to get us out of this mess. We dont have any funds to change the situation.

 

Options we do have is to hope that this team can do enough to make us safe. Hope our current main shareholders can do enough to hold the banks off long enough for the team to show signs of improvment. Or go into administration and watch the club get completly stripped to the point where we could be bought by the local butcher. I do point out though that if we get that far down the pan it is very very likely that one of more of the current bunch of imbasills will also be the ones that buy us off the administrators putting us into the same position as we are now.

[Morph]

Morph...nice to see you again. You don't suspect that some sort of vote of no confidence is being prepared for the AGM perhaps?

 

No I don't, but I know certain parties are now talking behind Lowe and Wildes backs.

 

What is that saying about people who live by the sword ?

 

Regards

 

 

Morph

[Mole]

No I don't, but I know certain parties are now talking behind Lowe and Wildes backs.

 

What is that saying about people who live by the sword ?

 

Regards

 

 

Morph

 

Thanks Morpheus, the matrix will soon be broken.

 

[Viking Warrior]

Hi again Morph

 

I take it we nned to read the lines re your post.

Is there a time frame your intimating?

 

I hope this is not a new false dawn your alluding to.

 

I really could do with some good news re the club for a change

[SaintRobbie]

4 years ago, all but a month, Rupert Lowe suddenly woke up to the fact that we were a club in freefall and sacked Wigley to replace him with "Sir Harry Hotspur" but it was too late and we went down. The writing had been on the wall ever since the appointment of Sturrock but Lowe’s stubbornness to recognise the signs cost us dear. Throughout that Wigley autumn he referred to our slide down the table “as just a blip”. 4 years on we are still a club in freefall and 4 years on Lowe’s stubbornness is set to inflict more pain on Southampton FC. Is there any hope - or do we all sit back and watch it happen?

 

Our last day survival v Sheffield United could have been the turning point for this club but Lowe was not prepared to give it a chance. Leon Crouch had appointed a well-thought of, inexpensive young manager who was already turning things around in terms of attitude, fitness and pride. Barclays were happy that the rot had stopped and steps were being put in place to address the financial problems. The executives and Michael Wilde had had their day (as had Lowe) and had been found wanting. There was a glimmer of hope that perhaps, just perhaps the corner had been turned. But Lowe had other ideas and a two-pronged reason to oust Crouch and form an unlikely alliance with his erstwhile foe, Michael Wilde. First the pair of them had to protect their investment. Crouch’s interest in his investment was never as important to him and that worried them. Secondly of course both men had egos and scores to settle even if it got in the way of the club making progress.

 

Lowe had long fancied the role of DoF with a puppet like head coach underneath him. The Runnymede minutes and revelations by former board members confirm this. So he takes advantage of the opt out clause with Pearson and appoints a Dutch duo first recommended by Sir Clive Woodward. Poorvliet is way out of his depth but he is cheap and malleable – perfect for Lowe’s plan. But the plan is flawed. Sure, some high earners needed to be moved on but a lot of it is false economy. Stern John’s departure this week a classic example. True he was on a big wage but you watch the gate dip on Tuesday because fans have had enough watching the likes of BWP and David McGoldrick struggle to score. His departure proves that businessman Lowe is not that canny. Saving a few thousand on wages which will now be lost on the gate is not sound management, not to mention the loss of a 20 goal a season forward.

 

I am also told that JP had not seen any of our new players play before signing them and that being the case is it any surprise he is finding it hard to mould them into a decent cohesive unit. Especially when he is told who to pick and who not to. The ridiculous way he has had to persevere with David McGoldrick on Lowe’s instructions is farcical in terms of morale and team building.

 

So what is the answer – do we all accept our fate? Is there an alternative? Rumour has it Crouch is still prepared to put some money in the club to help stave of administration and others too maybe willing but not if Lowe and Wilde remain in charge without dipping their hands in their private pockets. The time has come for both men to realise they are now the problem. Barclays were much happier with Crouch’s stewardship and with Wilde and Lowe gone it is still not too late to halt the rot. There is an AGM approaching and I expect there will be some movement behind the scenes, but even that may be too late. The “total football experiment” needs to be abandoned – we need to appoint a decent manager who knows how the CCC works and the two tainted Chairmen need to do the decent thing and fall on their swords. I am sure, then, people will step forward to steady the ship.

 

Absolutely spot on.

 

Well said.

 

But - we also now need to force the 2 fools out and I suspect that will involves the more foolish fans resorting to Brandfoot style eviction tactics. I am not thus coming to SMS, because I sense it will now start to get messy.

 

The first thing I want to hear from Mike Wilde on Monday is...

 

'Southampton FC is For Sale - we wish to sell to the best bid before the January transfer window'.

 

Lowe is a cancer.

[Long Shot]

Simple

 

Allegedly supplied by a source who is believed to have spent a few months studying earlobes and handwriting on used memo pads in 10 different hotels within 20 miles of Runnymede and who isn't Trousers

 

The parties agreed to the meeting being minuted.

Minutes were taken.

A party didn't wish that the minutes should be published as that was different from having a record of the event.

The minutes were not published or circulated or signed and so did not become minutes so became ITK speculation.

People associated with the meeting were more discrete and professional than previous ITK'ers

 

HTH

 

 

Phil I have a hard copy of the minutes in front of me as I type - verified by 2 people who were at the meeting. They run to 4 pages and I guess I could type them up and publish, which I will do if needed, but someone must have an electronic version to save my fingers.

 

As an interesting aside I heard when all parties had gathered Lowe kicked off procedings by telling Wilde he had promised Mrs Lowe that next time he was in the same room as Wilde he would give him a good hiding. Needless to say the meeting understandably went down hill after that.

[Morph]

Hi again Morph

 

I take it we nned to read the lines re your post.

Is there a time frame your intimating?

 

I hope this is not a new false dawn your alluding to.

 

I really could do with some good news re the club for a change

 

I'm not saying that there is good news on the horizon. I only see our dire situation as bad news.

 

All I know is that certain parties who have been waiting to see what happens are talking again. More in preparation I feel, if it goes completley t*ts up. I don't see anyone out there on a white charger I'm afraid and as for Fulthorpe, I have no idea what is happening there.

 

It certainly seems to be heading for the buffers don't you think? As I understood things we were reliant on selling someone like Bale once a season to stay above water. That supply has dried up now hasn't it ? No doubt the release of the Company Accounts will indicate the direction that we are heading for one way or the other.

 

Regards

 

 

Morph

[AwaySaint1]

Good afternoon Morph nice to see you login and post.

[ladysaint]

Phil I have a hard copy of the minutes in front of me as I type - verified by 2 people who were at the meeting. They run to 4 pages and I guess I could type them up and publish, which I will do if needed, but someone must have an electronic version to save my fingers.

 

As an interesting aside I heard when all parties had gathered Lowe kicked off procedings by telling Wilde he had promised Mrs Lowe that next time he was in the same room as Wilde he would give him a good hiding. Needless to say the meeting understandably went down hill after that.

 

Would be good if the minutes could be made public for us all to read or cant they be scanned in if you dont want to type them up.

[Mole]

As an interesting aside I heard when all parties had gathered Lowe kicked off procedings by telling Wilde he had promised Mrs Lowe that next time he was in the same room as Wilde he would give him a good hiding.

 

I'd love to see what hapened if Lowe said that to Leon Crouch.

[hypochondriac]

I'm not saying that there is good news on the horizon. I only see our dire situation as bad news.

 

All I know is that certain parties who have been waiting to see what happens are talking again. More in preparation I feel, if it goes completley t*ts up. I don't see anyone out there on a white charger I'm afraid and as for Fulthorpe, I have no idea what is happening there.

 

It certainly seems to be heading for the buffers don't you think? As I understood things we were reliant on selling someone like Bale once a season to stay above water. That supply has dried up now hasn't it ? No doubt the release of the Company Accounts will indicate the direction that we are heading for one way or the other.

 

Regards

 

 

Morph

 

Correct me if I am wrong Morph but I believe you said that certain parties would never let saints go into admin and potentially out of existence. Do you still believe that?

[hypochondriac]

Would be good if the minutes could be made public for us all to read or cant they be scanned in if you dont want to type them up.

 

I had an electronic copy ages ago. It's really not that groundbreaking.

[trousers]

Phil I have a hard copy of the minutes in front of me as I type - verified by 2 people who were at the meeting. They run to 4 pages and I guess I could type them up and publish, which I will do if needed, but someone must have an electronic version to save my fingers.

 

 

PC World is still open. They do scanners. Hurry, early closing on Sundays.

 

Thanks.

[trousers]

All I know is that certain parties who have been waiting to see what happens are talking again.

 

You've got to hand it to him. That Mr Allen chap has been a very patient man.

[NickG]

Stern was put out on loan because we could not afford his weekly wages.

 

Let's suppose he is on £10,000 per week. Quite possibly. There is a home game every other week (on average). The average adult will pay £24 for a ticket and £6 on beer/pies/program etc.

 

So simple maths:

 

(£10,000 / £30) * 2 = 666

 

(the multiply by two is to factor in that a home game every other week)

 

So my point is that if only and additional 666 adult, non-season ticket holders, now decide not to bother going to the home games because stern has gone then the net financial saving of giving him to Bristol is precisely zero. Well done Lowe. Another well thought out loan deal to save us money. Does Lowe ever bother to look at the income situation alongside the expenses and determine that there might just be a correlation?

 

Pathetic.

 

possibly loan fee was paid?

[ottery st mary]

If Lowey and Wildey had any decency they would go mow. They must see all bar a few of the fan base are against them.

[Long Shot]

Would be good if the minutes could be made public for us all to read or cant they be scanned in if you dont want to type them up.

 

 

I have a scanner but not sure how I then go about puting them on here

[John B]

If Lowey and Wildey had any decency they would go mow. They must see all bar a few of the fan base are against them.

 

Yes but it does not mean what they are doing is not beneficial to the club in the long run.

 

They are not stupid but successful intelligent people

[Roman]

I’ve no idea what’s in the Runymede minutes. I would, though, be curious to know if they shed any light on these questions to Wilde.

 

What were his reasons for the alliance with Lowe? Could it ONLY have been about money?

 

Did he know the extent of Lowe’s ‘revolution’ before allying with him to oust Leon? Specifically, did he know of Lowe’s intention to sack Nigel Pearson? Did he know of Lowe’s intention to appoint the Dutch duo? Did he know of Lowe’s plans to farm out our entire forward line? Was he made aware of any intention by Lowe to sell or loan out at the first opportunity: Euell, Skacel, John, Rasiak, Saganowski, Davies and Davis (and possibly Surman as well) – ie about two-thirds of the first team?

 

Was Wilde aware of any business plan to back up this so-called ‘revolution’? Did it depend on a minimum ‘break-even’ home gate? And if so, what was it?

 

Was he a party to the rubbishing of Leon Crouch, a subtly nasty campaign to paint Leon as a business incompetent?

 

And finally, how in god’s good name can he possibly justify loudly and very publicly championing himself as the ‘man-of-the-fans’ in order to relieve of us of Lowe, only to sneak back into the boardroom with Lowe, his sworn enemy, at his side – all the time maintaining a stony, sullen silence?

 

This is a silence that Wilde has kept now for six long months. Time to speak up. Be honest. Come clean.

 

Wilde, you owe it to the only people now who can keep this club afloat – the fans.

 

But of course you won’t say a word, will you?

Edited 26 October, 2008 by Roman

[ottery st mary]

Yes but it does not mean what they are doing is not beneficial to the club in the long run.

 

They are not stupid but successful intelligent people

 

They well may be but not according to their track record..sorry time to hand over the ship in a last ditch effort before runs aground.

Move over Captain Lowey and Able Seaman Wildey. Bit like the Navy Lark.

[John B]

I’ve no idea what’s in the Runymede minutes. I would, though, be curious to know if they shed any light on these questions to Wilde.

 

What were his reasons for the alliance with Lowe? Could it ONLY have been about money?

 

Did he know the extent of Lowe’s ‘revolution’ before allying with him to oust Leon? Specifically, did he know of Lowe’s intention to sack Nigel Pearson? Did he know of Lowe’s intention to appoint the Dutch duo? Did he know of Lowe’s plans to farm out our entire forward line? Was he made aware of any intention by Lowe to sell or loan out at the first opportunity: Euell, Skacel, John, Rasiak, Saganowski, Davies and Davis (and possibly Surman as well) – ie about two-thirds of the first team?

 

Was Wilde aware of any business plan to back up this so-called ‘revolution’? Did it depend on a minimum ‘break-even’ home gate? And if so, what was it?

 

Was he a party to the rubbishing of Leon Crouch, a subtly nasty campaign to paint Leon as a business incompetent?

 

And finally, how in god’s good name can he possibly justify loudly and very publicly championing himself as the ‘man-of-the-fans’ in order to relieve of us of Lowe, only to sneak back into the boardroom with Lowe, his sworn enemy, at his side – all the time maintaining a stony, sullen silence?

 

This is a silence that Wilde has kept now for six long months. Time to speak up. Be honest. Come clean.

 

Wilde, you owe it to the only people now who can keep this club afloat – the fans.

 

But of course you won’t say a word, will you?

 

Your interesting post would make a good film.

 

Who would play Rupert?

[St Marco]

Yes but it does not mean what they are doing is not beneficial to the club in the long run.

 

They are not stupid but successful intelligent people

 

Sorry i disagree. If anything their actions seem amaturish on a whole. They came into this with no plan other then to say they were cost cutting. The only people who stand to lose from administration is Lowe and Wilde. But yet they are the ones who set the club onto that course of direction. Getting rid of someone who is proven to score goals when you need goals for the sake of say £384k is bad buisness. We have a club set up now in the way Lowe and Wilde wanted it to be. The team is different from last years and we have a near whole new back staff etc.. all these people have contracts just as the ones who have been replaced had. When the figures are released we will see just how "intelligent" they have been. It will also be interesting to see if Jan paid for his compensation or if we did. Right now we are heading to division 1. There is nothing i have seen in the 13 games to make me think the kids could spark into life and start scoring goals and winning games. The games we won we had massive luck with. This whole ideal that we are playing good football is just a myth. If football was passing around the half way line we would be top of this league. But it isn't, it is defending and scoring. We can do neither. The decisons that lead us to that was made by Lowe and Wilde. They are to blame for it.

[RinNY]

Point 1: when Redknapp was appointed manager here, it was NOT too late, or anything near it! In fact, if we had not abjectly surrendered last minute goals to teams like Boro, Everton & Arsenal, and given up a 2 goal lead at home against Villa, we'd have avoided relegation. So no, it was not too late, and it was down to Harry and the players that we went down.

 

Point 2: saying it's time for Lowe & Wilde to go is pointless: they control the majority of shares in the club, and will stay in charge as long as that is so. There is no sign that someone is prepared to put up the cash to buy them & their allies out, so they WILL in fact be leading this club for the foreseeable future. Get used to it, & get over the fantastic notion that they will be ousted "now".

 

Point 3: of course every Saints fan is bound to be disappointed with the results so far this season, but what were you expecting?? We are a club in transition, trying to stem the tide of red ink in the club's accounts so as to avoid administration, and trying to stay afloat in the CCC with a team of promising youngsters. Results are going to be inconsistent: as many of us noted at the beginning of the season, avoiding relegation this year is the goal, and anything better than avoiding relegation (e.g. finishing mid-table) will be an unexpected plus. If you're going to get frantic every time we lose a game or two, it's going to be a looooong, long season for you!

[benjii]

Your interesting post would make a good film.

 

Who would play Rupert?

 

Wesley Snipes.

[fos1]

This is a silence that Wilde has kept now for six long months. Time to speak up. Be honest. Come clean.

 

Roman, Wilde to be honest now that would be a first !!!!!

As for him to come clean, perhaps he could tell us about taking young players to strip clubs while he was chairman, is this suitable behaviour of a chairman of Southampton football club.

[John B]

Sorry i disagree. If anything their actions seem amaturish on a whole. They came into this with no plan other then to say they were cost cutting. The only people who stand to lose from administration is Lowe and Wilde. But yet they are the ones who set the club onto that course of direction. Getting rid of someone who is proven to score goals when you need goals for the sake of say £384k is bad buisness. We have a club set up now in the way Lowe and Wilde wanted it to be. The team is different from last years and we have a near whole new back staff etc.. all these people have contracts just as the ones who have been replaced had. When the figures are released we will see just how "intelligent" they have been. It will also be interesting to see if Jan paid for his compensation or if we did. Right now we are heading to division 1. There is nothing i have seen in the 13 games to make me think the kids could spark into life and start scoring goals and winning games. The games we won we had massive luck with. This whole ideal that we are playing good football is just a myth. If football was passing around the half way line we would be top of this league. But it isn't, it is defending and scoring. We can do neither. The decisons that lead us to that was made by Lowe and Wilde. They are to blame for it.

 

I am not saying they are right or wrong I dont know the true facts.

 

I agree with your analysis of the team even in preseason goals were not being scored.

 

I feel the system maybe OK away but is too negative at home the lone striker or in some cases loan striker has little chance

[benjii]

Point 1: when Redknapp was appointed manager here, it was NOT too late, or anything near it! In fact, if we had not abjectly surrendered last minute goals to teams like Boro, Everton & Arsenal, and given up a 2 goal lead at home against Villa, we'd have avoided relegation. So no, it was not too late, and it was down to Harry and the players that we went down.

 

I agree.

 

Point 2: saying it's time for Lowe & Wilde to go is pointless: they control the majority of shares in the club, and will stay in charge as long as that is so. There is no sign that someone is prepared to put up the cash to buy them & their allies out, so they WILL in fact be leading this club for the foreseeable future. Get used to it, & get over the fantastic notion that they will be ousted "now".

 

Not true.

 

Why do two individuals with a combined holding of around 20% have to compose half of the board?

 

(Especially when both have a proven track record of being crap at being in control of a football club.)

 

 

Point 3: of course every Saints fan is bound to be disappointed with the results so far this season, but what were you expecting?? We are a club in transition, trying to stem the tide of red ink in the club's accounts so as to avoid administration, and trying to stay afloat in the CCC with a team of promising youngsters. Results are going to be inconsistent: as many of us noted at the beginning of the season, avoiding relegation this year is the goal, and anything better than avoiding relegation (e.g. finishing mid-table) will be an unexpected plus. If you're going to get frantic every time we lose a game or two, it's going to be a looooong, long season for you!

 

A team that improves rather than gets worse with every game. A team with more than half a striker on the pitch. A team with two full backs. A team with an explicable choice of manager.

[Snowballs2]

Stanley I thought everyone had read the minutes when they did the PM rounds on the forum when it was first posted.

 

Nope I did not get a PM

[Window Cleaner]

Stern was put out on loan because we could not afford his weekly wages.

 

Let's suppose he is on £10,000 per week. Quite possibly. There is a home game every other week (on average). The average adult will pay £24 for a ticket and £6 on beer/pies/program etc.

 

So simple maths:

 

(£10,000 / £30) * 2 = 666

 

(the multiply by two is to factor in that a home game every other week)

 

So my point is that if only and additional 666 adult, non-season ticket holders, now decide not to bother going to the home games because stern has gone then the net financial saving of giving him to Bristol is precisely zero. Well done Lowe. Another well thought out loan deal to save us money. Does Lowe ever bother to look at the income situation alongside the expenses and determine that there might just be a correlation?

 

Pathetic.

 

 

Just an elementary lesson in fag packet mathematics here.

 

a= you have to take out the VAT from all sales.

b) the beer, pies and programme all have a finite cost.Their sale price also includes VAT.

c) not everybody drinks stadium beer (it's awful),eats the pies or buys a programme.

d) The stadium takes up the input of at least 5000 fans per match, probably nearer 6K.

Those adjustments would mean that 1000+ people are paying Stern John.

 

Stadium 6000, Stern John 1000,Rudi Skacel 1000,Wayne Thomas 800,

Jason Euell 1000

 

Meaning that the remaining charge has to be born by 5200 fans on the gates we're getting.

We've 29 pros,an academy, office staff, interest payments to meet with that.

Anyone know what the clubs rates are ? is it not more than a million a year??

 

Without Sky money the Stadium is what we can't afford.

[Snowballs2]

Phil I have a hard copy of the minutes in front of me as I type - verified by 2 people who were at the meeting. They run to 4 pages and I guess I could type them up and publish, which I will do if needed, but someone must have an electronic version to save my fingers.

 

As an interesting aside I heard when all parties had gathered Lowe kicked off procedings by telling Wilde he had promised Mrs Lowe that next time he was in the same room as Wilde he would give him a good hiding. Needless to say the meeting understandably went down hill after that.

 

 

Please publish it could help us all

[Roman]

Your interesting post would make a good film.

 

Who would play Rupert?

 

Benny Hill. With Michael Caine as Wilde saying: "You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off."

[ottery st mary]

4 years ago, all but a month, Rupert Lowe suddenly woke up to the fact that we were a club in freefall and sacked Wigley to replace him with "Sir Harry Hotspur" but it was too late and we went down. The writing had been on the wall ever since the appointment of Sturrock but Lowe’s stubbornness to recognise the signs cost us dear. Throughout that Wigley autumn he referred to our slide down the table “as just a blip”. 4 years on we are still a club in freefall and 4 years on Lowe’s stubbornness is set to inflict more pain on Southampton FC. Is there any hope - or do we all sit back and watch it happen?

 

Our last day survival v Sheffield United could have been the turning point for this club but Lowe was not prepared to give it a chance. Leon Crouch had appointed a well-thought of, inexpensive young manager who was already turning things around in terms of attitude, fitness and pride. Barclays were happy that the rot had stopped and steps were being put in place to address the financial problems. The executives and Michael Wilde had had their day (as had Lowe) and had been found wanting. There was a glimmer of hope that perhaps, just perhaps the corner had been turned. But Lowe had other ideas and a two-pronged reason to oust Crouch and form an unlikely alliance with his erstwhile foe, Michael Wilde. First the pair of them had to protect their investment. Crouch’s interest in his investment was never as important to him and that worried them. Secondly of course both men had egos and scores to settle even if it got in the way of the club making progress.

 

Lowe had long fancied the role of DoF with a puppet like head coach underneath him. The Runnymede minutes and revelations by former board members confirm this. So he takes advantage of the opt out clause with Pearson and appoints a Dutch duo first recommended by Sir Clive Woodward. Poorvliet is way out of his depth but he is cheap and malleable – perfect for Lowe’s plan. But the plan is flawed. Sure, some high earners needed to be moved on but a lot of it is false economy. Stern John’s departure this week a classic example. True he was on a big wage but you watch the gate dip on Tuesday because fans have had enough watching the likes of BWP and David McGoldrick struggle to score. His departure proves that businessman Lowe is not that canny. Saving a few thousand on wages which will now be lost on the gate is not sound management, not to mention the loss of a 20 goal a season forward.

 

I am also told that JP had not seen any of our new players play before signing them and that being the case is it any surprise he is finding it hard to mould them into a decent cohesive unit. Especially when he is told who to pick and who not to. The ridiculous way he has had to persevere with David McGoldrick on Lowe’s instructions is farcical in terms of morale and team building.

 

So what is the answer – do we all accept our fate? Is there an alternative? Rumour has it Crouch is still prepared to put some money in the club to help stave of administration and others too maybe willing but not if Lowe and Wilde remain in charge without dipping their hands in their private pockets. The time has come for both men to realise they are now the problem. Barclays were much happier with Crouch’s stewardship and with Wilde and Lowe gone it is still not too late to halt the rot. There is an AGM approaching and I expect there will be some movement behind the scenes, but even that may be too late. The “total football experiment” needs to be abandoned – we need to appoint a decent manager who knows how the CCC works and the two tainted Chairmen need to do the decent thing and fall on their swords. I am sure, then, people will step forward to steady the ship.

 

Spot on and and well worth your time and effort as it summs up a lot of true facts.

I have nightmares about who was selecting some of our transfers/loans and their cost in comparison to the ousted players.

We all know that Lowey had JP and Wotte in place so he was going to release Pearson at all costs. Wages/cost was always a red herring and I know that Pearson wanted to stay as did Woggy and Ethel the tea lady.

[exit2]

LONG SHOT you have a PM