How to ruin a football club in less than 5 years

[Thedelldays]

LOL

 

you could not make it up..

 

less than 5 years ago we played pompey at home in the league and beat them (easily) 3-0 and went 4th in the table (PREMIERSHIP)...we had some bloody good players with a top english striker...

 

we had it all, full stadiums every week, fans even raising the question about making SMS bigger, we had a Euro (brief) adventure, we had a manager we all absolutely loved and we all thought we were about to embark on a new era for SFC and cement ourselves in the top 8 and regulalry challenge for the UEFA cup...

 

 

oh my god, how wrong did it go...in less than 5 years we are an absolute shambles and staring L1 and administration right in the face....it is not a question of IF but WHEN on both front...

 

that is probably why I could not care less about the club anymore....why should I keep going when fundemtal mistakes are being made by those who look after MY club..I simply cannot trust them to use my money wisely...

 

 

is that so bad...?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

What you say is all true , but I'm struggling to see the funny side or indeed to cease caring .

[John B]

LOL

 

you could not make it up..

 

less than 5 years ago we played pompey at home in the league and beat them (easily) 3-0 and went 4th in the table (PREMIERSHIP)...we had some bloody good players with a top english striker...

 

we had it all, full stadiums every week, fans even raising the question about making SMS bigger, we had a Euro (brief) adventure, we had a manager we all absolutely loved and we all thought we were about to embark on a new era for SFC and cement ourselves in the top 8 and regulalry challenge for the UEFA cup...

 

 

oh my god, how wrong did it go...in less than 5 years we are an absolute shambles and staring L1 and administration right in the face....it is not a question of IF but WHEN on both front...

 

that is probably why I could not care less about the club anymore....why should I keep going when fundemtal mistakes are being made by those who look after MY club..I simply cannot trust them to use my money wisely...

 

 

is that so bad...?

 

Yes I agree with you in some ways unfortunately we started going down after Christmas as we never really had any money to buy high quality players.

 

I dont think that team had really top class players apart from Niemi the others were pretty ordinary

 

 

I think the team over achieved Beattie certainly did we had no real stategy on going forward except for getting Hoddle back .

 

Strachan was getting in second rate players and the defence was getting old or in Svensson's case injured.

Edited 14 November, 2008 by John B

[Thedelldays]

What you say is all true , but I'm struggling to see the funny side or indeed to cease caring .

I have to laugh.....as i will cry..I used to love this club..I loved being the underdog, watching some of our crazy signings, ali dia etc....

it was all part of the wackyness that I loved about saints....

 

now, we are just a joke, bland and making stupid stupid mistakes, not just now but right from when WGS left...

 

I thought Lowe did a decent job up until WGS left, i really did...but what happened after through until now is totally unforgiveable...and I have to laugh at the shambles or I will get too angry

[Toomer]

Yes I agree with you in some ways unfortunately we started going down after Christmas as we never really had any money to buy high quality players

 

 

I think the team over achieved Beattie certainly did we had no real stategy on going forward.

 

Strachan was getting in second rate players and the defence was getting old or in Svensson's case injured.

 

WGS may have been getting second rate players but who's fault was that? the ****le of a chairman we had then and who we have got now.

[John B]

WGS may have been getting second rate players but who's fault was that? the ****le of a chairman we had then and who we have got now.

 

Ok you can blame Lowe but where was the money to come from to pay for Transfers and Wages.

 

 

We also had no one coming in from the Academy to supplement the team or sell to bring in extra Revenue

[Thedelldays]

Ok you can blame Lowe but where was the money to come from to pay for Transfers and Wages.

 

 

We also had no one coming in from the Academy to supplement the team or sell to bring in extra Revenue

easily....this was rumoured at the time..

 

WGS was not happy with the wage cap in individual players and that he wanted the whole wage cap and he would decide who to get...having a slightly smaller squad with better quality

[Capel Saint]

I must admit that we are the second club to implode over a fairly short period of time. Leeds are the other example that springs to mind. In both cases it is mis-management at Board level that have largely been responsible for these great clubs to fall and be in the state they are. The difference with Leeds though is that they still manage to get 30,000 fans through the door, even in League 1, whereas with Saints, fans are staying away due to the current Board/seeing frustrating football ie not winning games/current economic climate.

 

The blame should fall on the whole Board and all the various Directors/Chairmen that have come and gone (and back again) over this period. I feel that until this plc is dissolved the club will continue to fall. The plc stifles investment and puts off any serious investor to buy the club as he/she/they would have to spend a ton of cash just to buy the shares to gain control, that is without servicing the exisiting debt.

 

I don't like spouting doom and gloom but I genuinely feel that whilst the club is run by a plc, there will be no upturn unless the shareholders want to sell their shares for a £1.

 

So in answer to your question, it is up to each individual fan whether they walk away or continue to support the Saints through this extremely bad time.

[eelpie]

But your 1189 posts show that you really do care,TDD.

 

And your sentiments and frustration are heartfelt by everyone (except scooby and mates)

[krissyboy31]

Ok you can blame Lowe but where was the money to come from to pay for Transfers and Wages.

 

 

We also had no one coming in from the Academy to supplement the team or sell to bring in extra Revenue

 

At that time we DID have the money to kick on with better players. The trouble is Lowe kept spouting the ultra prudent "We will not do a Leeds" line. He thought we had made it and that no more investment was required in the team. In any business, you can not stand still. All the teams around us were strengthening while we were buying players that where ever worse or no better than we already had because they fitted the wage structure. We ended up with a massive squad of very average players.

 

By not investing then, his ultra prudence has caused us to do a Leeds, all bar the shouting. We stayed up by the skin of our teeth last season and this season if we carry on culling at the rate we are currently, we have no chance of survival (either from the drop or administration).

[Frank's cousin]

One thing we do constantly overlook - and this is in no way removeing 'blame' or not recognising mistakes made etc.... but we make out like we are victimised - the only club ever to go through a period of sh!t - jeez its happened to all clubs in tehir history and will continue to happen to many more - this generation is just not used to it and what makes it worse is that the game is now so dominated by the prem millions that makes it more difficult - but have we really lost sight of the fact that ultimately this is sport - a game with divisions in a league system which means each year there are promotions and relegations - Its the mark of a fan base in how they respond to the crap more so in how they respond to the success (which is easy) - please say we have not forgetten these simple fundementals of this game?

[John B]

At that time we DID have the money to kick on with better players. The trouble is Lowe kept spouting the ultra prudent "We will not do a Leeds" line. He thought we had made it and that no more investment was required in the team. In any business, you can not stand still. All the teams around us were strengthening while we were buying players that where ever worse or no better than we already had because they fitted the wage structure. We ended up with a massive squad of very average players.

 

By not investing then, his ultra prudence has caused us to do a Leeds, all bar the shouting. We stayed up by the skin of our teeth last season and this season if we carry on culling at the rate we are currently, we have no chance of survival (either from the drop or administration).

 

Could be true but I cannot see where all this so called investment money was coming from although we did bring in Crouch

 

But I do agree we were getting in too many second rate players I would have thought this was not all down to Lowe.

Edited 14 November, 2008 by John B

[saintbletch]

LOL

 

you could not make it up..

 

less than 5 years ago we played pompey at home in the league and beat them (easily) 3-0 and went 4th in the table (PREMIERSHIP)...we had some bloody good players with a top english striker...

 

we had it all, full stadiums every week, fans even raising the question about making SMS bigger, we had a Euro (brief) adventure, we had a manager we all absolutely loved and we all thought we were about to embark on a new era for SFC and cement ourselves in the top 8 and regulalry challenge for the UEFA cup...

 

 

oh my god, how wrong did it go...in less than 5 years we are an absolute shambles and staring L1 and administration right in the face....it is not a question of IF but WHEN on both front...

 

that is probably why I could not care less about the club anymore....why should I keep going when fundemtal mistakes are being made by those who look after MY club..I simply cannot trust them to use my money wisely...

 

 

is that so bad...?

 

Can I ask why you posted this on a Saints' message board?

 

You presumably saw the irony in the fact that you "could not care less about the club anymore". I would that thought that if you "could not care less about the club anymore". You might just log off, cancel your subscription and go watch Premier League shove ha'penny or some such. Instead you appear to demonstrate how much you care about how far the club has fallen.

 

On your general point, and from someone who does care what happens to the club, I agree that it is sickening to see how far we've fallen. But in my opinion, and I'm far from thinking that I have the answers, but crying boo-hoo and looking back whistfully on what once was will get us nowhere.

[John B]

Can I ask why you posted this on a Saints' message board?

 

You presumably saw the irony in the fact that you "could not care less about the club anymore". I would that thought that if you "could not care less about the club anymore". You might just log off, cancel your subscription and go watch Premier League shove ha'penny or some such. Instead you appear to demonstrate how much you care about how far the club has fallen.

 

On your general point, and from someone who does care what happens to the club, I agree that it is sickening to see how far we've fallen. But in my opinion, and I'm far from thinking that I have the answers, but crying boo-hoo and looking back whistfully on what once was will get us nowhere.

But it is someting to talk about

 

This is A Saints Forum and DELLDAYS has every right to post his comments.

[Thedelldays]

Can I ask why you posted this on a Saints' message board?

 

You presumably saw the irony in the fact that you "could not care less about the club anymore". I would that thought that if you "could not care less about the club anymore". You might just log off, cancel your subscription and go watch Premier League shove ha'penny or some such. Instead you appear to demonstrate how much you care about how far the club has fallen.

 

On your general point, and from someone who does care what happens to the club, I agree that it is sickening to see how far we've fallen. But in my opinion, and I'm far from thinking that I have the answers, but crying boo-hoo and looking back whistfully on what once was will get us nowhere.

i could not care less about the weather but it does not stop me from looking at what will happen out side in the next few days...etc

[stthrobber]

LOL

 

you could not make it up..

 

less than 5 years ago we played pompey at home in the league and beat them (easily) 3-0 and went 4th in the table (PREMIERSHIP)...we had some bloody good players with a top english striker...

 

we had it all, full stadiums every week, fans even raising the question about making SMS bigger, we had a Euro (brief) adventure, we had a manager we all absolutely loved and we all thought we were about to embark on a new era for SFC and cement ourselves in the top 8 and regulalry challenge for the UEFA cup...

 

 

oh my god, how wrong did it go...in less than 5 years we are an absolute shambles and staring L1 and administration right in the face....it is not a question of IF but WHEN on both front...

 

that is probably why I could not care less about the club anymore....why should I keep going when fundemtal mistakes are being made by those who look after MY club..I simply cannot trust them to use my money wisely...

 

 

is that so bad...?

 

Well, we aren't the first club to suffer like this, at least 2 clubs in our division have suffered similarly and worse, and the prime example, as someone has already mentioned is Leeds who gambled their tomorrow by living the Champions League dream.

 

The idiots that were brought in by Wilde then gambled our future in exactly the same way in a one off bid for promotion paying over the odds for some players and paying in wages well over the odds for others. They knew that if it came off they'd be heroes, and if not, they could leave with a decent pay off, having no particular love, nor affiliation to our club.

 

Unfortunately for us, it didn't quite come off and it's saddled us with huge debts that we are struggling to pay.

 

As for administration, my understanding is that it is very much still a case of "IF"

 

However, the real crux of the matter is that it is not really that important in the grand scheme of things. It's our club, we love it but there are far more important things to worry about as far as I'm concerned. Yes there are people at the club who will lose their livelihoods if we get relegated or go into administration, but does it directly affect my life? No.

 

Am I still a proud Saints fan? Yes, but we aren't the first club to suffer like this and we certainly won't be the last because the TV cash for the leagues is set up to favour the big boys and I don't see that changing

[saintbletch]

i could not care less about the weather but it does not stop me from looking at what will happen out side in the next few days...etc

 

Thanks for clarifying that. I presume you're also an active poster on www.whatwilltheweatherdotoday.com where every additional post you make demonstrates just how little you care.

 

Admit it. You care about this club. You're caught between supporting the team wholeheartedly and the feeling that you're being taken for a ride. Your self-protection instincts kick-in to tell you that to save yourself from being "hurt", you have to back away from the club. But you can't. You feel impotent. If appears unfair. It hurts.

 

Welcome to my world.

 

Personally I think it's more complicated than "I could not care less about the club".

[Thedelldays]

mate...i seriously dont care if we win or lose...i am past that at the mo...i go on here for more something to do during the day if I am in as I have a few weeks off....

[Didcot Saint]

LOL

 

you could not make it up..

 

less than 5 years ago we played pompey at home in the league and beat them (easily) 3-0 and went 4th in the table (PREMIERSHIP)...we had some bloody good players with a top english striker...

 

we had it all, full stadiums every week, fans even raising the question about making SMS bigger, we had a Euro (brief) adventure, we had a manager we all absolutely loved and we all thought we were about to embark on a new era for SFC and cement ourselves in the top 8 and regulalry challenge for the UEFA cup...

 

 

oh my god, how wrong did it go...in less than 5 years we are an absolute shambles and staring L1 and administration right in the face....it is not a question of IF but WHEN on both front...

 

that is probably why I could not care less about the club anymore....why should I keep going when fundemtal mistakes are being made by those who look after MY club..I simply cannot trust them to use my money wisely...

 

 

is that so bad...?

 

No mate its not, but if we all take that attitude there will be NO SFC!

[saintbletch]

mate...i seriously dont care if we win or lose...i am past that at the mo...i go on here for more something to do during the day if I am in as I have a few weeks off....

 

 

Fair enough and I'm sorry to hear that you will never again feel the thrill of a win turn to the the desperation that a loss brings turning again to hope at the next win.

[saintstr1]

I know this is going to sound like a old record and get me slagged off, but 90% of what I am reading on this thread seems to me to be looking for other excuses or reasons for our down fall than facing the real facts. In my opinion it started with mismanagement of the Club by Lowe after WGS departed , And after showing some shoots of recovery under Crouch & Pearson at the end of last season Lowe has stormed back in and not only killed off those recovery shoots but completely exterminated any possibility of a Recovery.

 

I regularly read on here about how terrible it would be to go into Administration , We are in Administration ! Rupert Lowe is our Administrator. Lowe came back for one reason only and that was to ensure his nest stays as tightly feathered as it always has. He gives not one jot about what happens to the club and even less about its supporters, Whichever division saints play in is of no real concern to him as long as he can keep his personal wealth firmly in the Black. As for Michael Wilde the only reason he jumped into bed with Lowe was again MONEY , Wilde has financial problems and knew that unless he sided with Lowe he would Probably be a goner by know, I dont believe Wilde likes Lowe any more than he ever did. It was a union of convenience, allowed Lowe to get his foot back in the door and kept Wilde Solvent.

 

We seem to be getting compared to Leeds quite a bit on this thread , the difference is Leeds got rid of there deadwood and excepted the Administration and all it entailed and are now firmly on a recovery course , Hence their 30,000 gates. We got rid of our deadwood and then let it return with a vengeance, consequently we are now much , much worse off than we were at the end of last season.

 

I despize Rupert Lowe for what he has done and is still doing to Southamptom Football Club.

Edited 14 November, 2008 by saintstr1

[stthrobber]

We seem to be getting compared to Leeds quite a bit on this thread , the difference is Leeds got rid of there deadwood and excepted the Administration and all it entailed and are now firmly on a recovery course , Hence their 30,000 gates. We got rid of our deadwood and then let it return with a vengeance, consequently we are now much , much worse off than we were at the end of last season.

 

I despize Rupert Lowe for what he has done and is still doing to Southamptom Football Club.

 

But Ken Bates took Leeds into administration and then bought control of the club back again, though saddling the club with a 15 point deduction in the process.

 

This shows that administration is not a favourable option, particularly when at the very least we will be virtually guaranteed relegation by losing 10 points to start with and if we don't come out of administration in the appropriate time and manner, we will face a further reduction, and with our assets sold off, the club will be leaner, but certainly not meaner.

 

Oh, of course, Ken Bates is still in charge of Leeds afaik.

 

It may be unpopular, but Lowe is trying to avoid our club doing down this route, but the measures taken by Hone and his gang of idiots has forced this issue, and Crouch's failure to take stronger measures earlier left him in a weak position.

 

It's possible that Crouch could take control again in the future, but the ideal situation would be for someone to buy out all 3 of the major shareholders and invest lots of money, but that isn't going to happen.

[John Smith]

Just to clarify, before you read this post, I have no issue with Lowes 'class', upbringing nor 'wealth'. And to substantiate that, I would like to point out, that I have a few friends that are far wealthier than Lowe (sadly not interested in football) and one, that is wealthy and the youngest son of a Lord (also unfortunately, not the slightest bit interested in football).

 

Lowe, had it all, whether you agree with the 'means' by which he gained his position, he 'was' in prime position 5 years ago. Relatively, he had made a 'small investment' in this club, and 5 years ago, was on the brink of something very big, considering the circumstances. In my opinion, the acid test on a leader, doesn't come when everything goes well, but what strategies they have to keep that momentum going and how they correct things when stuff starts to go wrong. The strength of the leadership is truly tested when 'change' is required, biting the bullet, swallowing your pride and moving on swiftly, is a characteristic that few leaders have, but the best one's, success is achieved, even if it means they fail.

 

Whatever your view on how we got there, or who was the key factor, truth was, we were in an enviable position. IMO, we got lucky, we got lucky with WGS being as good as he was for us, we got lucky in the early stagers of our cup run, some of the cheap foreigners we bought came good (Anders and Michael Svensson, Niemi, Pahars) and we were on the verge of something big, for the first time in our history, we were on the verge of becoming a second tier team, ie, one of those teams fighting for one of the positions outside of the top four, on a 'regular' basis.

 

But then, the acid test on Lowe failed. He squandered one of the best opportunities in football and we plummeted to where we find ourselves today. In my opinion, Lowe ignored the immediate need to capitalize on our position and realise that, in order to fully cement our position, we required ONE good, quality player, of proven ability. We were a year or so away from realising the fruits of the academy. Imagine the likes of Walcott and Bale coming through into Saints as a top 10 Prem side, plus an experienced well drilled TEAM! Rather than selling them straight away, we, the fans, would see them regularly ina Saints side for more than 1 season.

 

But Lowe gambled with this club by choosing, IMO, the wrong path. He went for journeymen and quantity, rather than quality and ability. He believed that numbers, plus a few youngsters coming through, was enough to sustain us at our current level.

 

He was wrong. And the facts speak for themselves.

 

But, not only was he wrong, he was not big enough to allow Saints to succeed, even though his decisions were failing. As captain of this ship, he needed to bring her about, he needed to alter course and steer us away from the rocks. But like the captain of the Titanic, he believed we (he?) was unsinkable. Lowes decisions, and IMO, lack of 'change' were the downfall of this club. Our (Lowes) inability to change course when failure was heading our way, due to, from what I can make out, pure bloody mindedness, drove this ship into that iceberg, and, from an outsiders point of view, whilst the Captain and his Special guests, sipped sherry in the boardroom, congratulating (backslapping) themselves on their remarkable, unexpected, success.

 

The only thing to add, in regard to his current return, Lowe hasn't altered his course. If anything, he is sailing this smaller vessel, even faster, and into not one, but a whole ocean of icebergs (that are labeled - 'administration', 'relegation' and 'obliteration', respectively) and I for one, sure don't a Captain of a ship, in an ocean 'full' of icebergs, when his track record shows he hit the only iceberg, and it was a fl*ppin big iceberg', on a calm day with full visibility and a radar that showed no other icebergs whatsoever (just that one).

 

But then, even after all that, I do see the irony. Saints are the only team I recall, being such experts and so consistent, at snatching defeat, from the jaws of victory!

[John B]

Just to clarify, before you read this post, I have no issue with Lowes 'class', upbringing nor 'wealth'. And to substantiate that, I would like to point out, that I have a few friends that are far wealthier than Lowe (sadly not interested in football) and one, that is wealthy and the youngest son of a Lord (also unfortunately, not the slightest bit interested in football).

 

Lowe, had it all, whether you agree with the 'means' by which he gained his position, he 'was' in prime position 5 years ago. Relatively, he had made a 'small investment' in this club, and 5 years ago, was on the brink of something very big, considering the circumstances. In my opinion, the acid test on a leader, doesn't come when everything goes well, but what strategies they have to keep that momentum going and how they correct things when stuff starts to go wrong. The strength of the leadership is truly tested when 'change' is required, biting the bullet, swallowing your pride and moving on swiftly, is a characteristic that few leaders have, but the best one's, success is achieved, even if it means they fail.

 

Whatever your view on how we got there, or who was the key factor, truth was, we were in an enviable position. IMO, we got lucky, we got lucky with WGS being as good as he was for us, we got lucky in the early stagers of our cup run, some of the cheap foreigners we bought came good (Anders and Michael Svensson, Niemi, Pahars) and we were on the verge of something big, for the first time in our history, we were on the verge of becoming a second tier team, ie, one of those teams fighting for one of the positions outside of the top four, on a 'regular' basis.

 

But then, the acid test on Lowe failed. He squandered one of the best opportunities in football and we plummeted to where we find ourselves today. In my opinion, Lowe ignored the immediate need to capitalize on our position and realise that, in order to fully cement our position, we required ONE good, quality player, of proven ability. We were a year or so away from realising the fruits of the academy. Imagine the likes of Walcott and Bale coming through into Saints as a top 10 Prem side, plus an experienced well drilled TEAM! Rather than selling them straight away, we, the fans, would see them regularly ina Saints side for more than 1 season.

 

But Lowe gambled with this club by choosing, IMO, the wrong path. He went for journeymen and quantity, rather than quality and ability. He believed that numbers, plus a few youngsters coming through, was enough to sustain us at our current level.

 

He was wrong. And the facts speak for themselves.

 

But, not only was he wrong, he was not big enough to allow Saints to succeed, even though his decisions were failing. As captain of this ship, he needed to bring her about, he needed to alter course and steer us away from the rocks. But like the captain of the Titanic, he believed we (he?) was unsinkable. Lowes decisions, and IMO, lack of 'change' were the downfall of this club. Our (Lowes) inability to change course when failure was heading our way, due to, from what I can make out, pure bloody mindedness, drove this ship into that iceberg, and, from an outsiders point of view, whilst the Captain and his Special guests, sipped sherry in the boardroom, congratulating (backslapping) themselves on their remarkable, unexpected, success.

 

The only thing to add, in regard to his current return, Lowe hasn't altered his course. If anything, he is sailing this smaller vessel, even faster, and into not one, but a whole ocean of icebergs (that are labeled - 'administration', 'relegation' and 'obliteration', respectively) and I for one, sure don't a Captain of a ship, in an ocean 'full' of icebergs, when his track record shows he hit the only iceberg, and it was a fl*ppin big iceberg', on a calm day with full visibility and a radar that showed no other icebergs whatsoever (just that one).

 

But then, even after all that, I do see the irony. Saints are the only team I recall, being such experts and so consistent, at snatching defeat, from the jaws of victory!

 

I think you are being rather niave we had a team which luckily got to the Cup Final where they performed badly.

 

The Defence Claus Telfer Le Saux were ageing and needed replacing but that was going to cost Millions

 

We were not in a very strong position really

[Thedelldays]

I think you are being rather niave we had a team which luckily got to the Cup Final where they performed badly.

 

The Defence Claus Telfer Le Saux were ageing and needed replacing but that was going to cost Millions

 

We were not in a very strong position really

yes we were....

 

killer cost 2m..niemi cost 2m...pau robinson and scott carson.....went for 2m and 4m each THIS SUMMER.... how much did the likes of samba etc cost balckburn...how much did vidic cost man u (when he was a pretty much unknown)...im not saying we could have got vidic himself...but these players are out there and dont cost a great deal..

 

we got to the final...you can only beat who was in front of you...i notice neither liverpool, manu or chelsea got to the final...maybe arsenal were lucky too...

Edited 14 November, 2008 by Thedelldays

[aintforever]

Getting to the cup final was the start of the decline IMO.

 

As a footballing achievement it means next to naff all, the win against Spurs was good but what followed was a spectacularly lucky run of games (luck that we were long overdue). Any club from the top two leagues could have pulled off what we did - just like Millwall did just after.

 

Getting to the cup final (and into Europe - as if they were two seperate achievements) just feeded Lowe's ego. He thought he was some sort of genius and that Saints had gone to "the next level" meaning that when he had to next choose a manager he didn't have to listen to anyone, we wouldn't go down so he could **** about with managers as he saw fit.

 

If our chairman understood the nature of football and wasn't as arrogant we probably would have built on our cup final season.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Lowe ****ed up when he sacked Sturrock. It's been all downhill since then. Giving in to player power never works - surprised at Lowe really, thought he'd have known better.

[alpine_saint]

Well, we aren't the first club to suffer like this, at least 2 clubs in our division have suffered similarly and worse, and the prime example, as someone has already mentioned is Leeds who gambled their tomorrow by living the Champions League dream.

 

The idiots that were brought in by Wilde then gambled our future in exactly the same way in a one off bid for promotion paying over the odds for some players and paying in wages well over the odds for others. They knew that if it came off they'd be heroes, and if not, they could leave with a decent pay off, having no particular love, nor affiliation to our club.

Unfortunately for us, it didn't quite come off and it's saddled us with huge debts that we are struggling to pay.

 

As for administration, my understanding is that it is very much still a case of "IF"

 

However, the real crux of the matter is that it is not really that important in the grand scheme of things. It's our club, we love it but there are far more important things to worry about as far as I'm concerned. Yes there are people at the club who will lose their livelihoods if we get relegated or go into administration, but does it directly affect my life? No.

 

Am I still a proud Saints fan? Yes, but we aren't the first club to suffer like this and we certainly won't be the last because the TV cash for the leagues is set up to favour the big boys and I don't see that changing

 

Oh yes, it all started with Mike Wilde, didnt it ? Strange, I thought it was on Rupert Lowe's watch that we were relegated.

 

Your portrayal of events is completely disingenous.

 

I agree completely with TDDs initial post.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Getting to the cup final was the start of the decline IMO.

 

As a footballing achievement it means next to naff all, the win against Spurs was good but what followed was a spectacularly lucky run of games (luck that we were long overdue). Any club from the top two leagues could have pulled off what we did - just like Millwall did just after.

 

Getting to the cup final (and into Europe - as if they were two seperate achievements) just feeded Lowe's ego. He thought he was some sort of genius and that Saints had gone to "the next level" meaning that when he had to next choose a manager he didn't have to listen to anyone, we wouldn't go down so he could **** about with managers as he saw fit.

 

If our chairman understood the nature of football and wasn't as arrogant we probably would have built on our cup final season.

 

I agree 100%.

 

The rather amateurish display against Bucharest at home, where the simple gambit of attacking in numbers down one flank showed us up as rather inflexible and a bit dim-witted, should have pointed out to Lowe just how much in need of some real quality we were, but a man and his ego are not easily parted.

 

30 average squad players is (to an accountant) better than 18 better quality ones worth the same amount, because it spreads your other risks. It's accountant-think, not football-think. Even if we had money, he would still go for quantity rather than quality. It's the nature of the (sundance?)beast.

[alehouseboys]

I must admit that we are the second club to implode over a fairly short period of time. Leeds are the other example that springs to mind. In both cases it is mis-management at Board level that have largely been responsible for these great clubs to fall and be in the state they are. The difference with Leeds though is that they still manage to get 30,000 fans through the door, even in League 1, whereas with Saints, fans are staying away due to the current Board/seeing frustrating football ie not winning games/current economic climate..

 

Not exactly true (tho' it's obvious they're a bigger club than us) most of their crowds are averaging around the low 20,000s, they've also had a 10,000 gate this season against Palace in the cup. Like us they're capable of getting 30,000+ particularly as they're getting so many Yorkshire derbies these days and their crowds now are better than when they were last in the Championship.

 

Going into administration galvanised their support which saw their attendances jump, they are also winning most games and you can buy tickets behind the goals for as little as £16 adults, £8 kids. I reckon our gates would improve in similar circumstances.

[Charlie Wayman]

The answer to your rhetorical headline is:-

 

'Build a brand new £32 million stadium that you cannot afford, the mortgage for which will be funded entirely from future earnings... "

 

Rather similar don't you think to the national economic disaster now engulfing this once prosperous country of ours. So the plight of Saints is really only an allegory of the plight of UK plc, engineered by the same group of greedy people who have all but bled the banks to death.

 

Don't expect the selfish oafs who got us into this mess in the first place to have the knowledge or skills to get us out of it, they don't and they won't.

[stthrobber]

Oh yes, it all started with Mike Wilde, didnt it ? Strange, I thought it was on Rupert Lowe's watch that we were relegated.

 

Your portrayal of events is completely disingenous.

 

I agree completely with TDDs initial post.

 

Rubbish. I haven't airbrushed Lowe's part in our relegation out of things, but I cannot speculate on what might have happened if he'd still been here, the fact is that he wasn't and the idiots that were took a gamble and it failed. That is an undisputed fact.

[sandwichsaint]

We were fecked from the day we went PLC, that model was never the 'traditional' model of football club ownership and has proved to be disasterous. Outside the top few 'brands' (for that is what they are) their is no money to be made in football.

 

The Premier Lge/Sky far from taking the game to new levels have effectively killed the game as a competetive spectacle, 4 teams playing for the title every season, another 4 or 5 striving to finish 5th (FFS!) and the rest scrabbling to stay there. The £££££££'s from TV and sponsorship continue to dissapear into the pockets of a relatively small elite of players/agents/hangers-on etc etc etc.

 

Saints have just happened to be the wrong club in the wrong place at the wrong time. With no sugar daddy we borrowed 30m+ for a stadium that with hindsight (or even foresight!) necessitated us staying in the PL for 20 years; who can guarantee that for a traditionally against-all-odds club?

 

The logic of burning the whole of the parachute money with hindsight was probably the right thing to do, unfortunately the wrong outcome! What's clearly not arguable is that if we had bounced back up in season 1 or 2 we would not be in this position now, unfortunately (small understatement) that didn't happen.

 

Saints without the parachute money (or indeed without all the other Prem add-ons in terms of corporate income) have quickly proved themselves to be unsustainable at this level.

 

Where to now? Administration looks inevitable unless we can shift just all about all our adult pros and even that might not be enough. Their worth must be severely constrained by le crunch, Surman 3m? Do me a favour, and with other clubs knowing our circumstances, we would snatch their arm off for 750,000. Relegation looks distinctly possible, either via the selling-all-our-decent-players route, or by points deduction.

 

Personally I hope Saints win on Saturday and I'm looking fd to going to Charlton away in a couple of weeks. Maybe a few others should go while there's still a chance to watch 'Saints' before we become AFC-non-lge something or other.

 

I hope Saints win on Saturday.

[Capel Saint]

Not exactly true (tho' it's obvious they're a bigger club than us) most of their crowds are averaging around the low 20,000s, they've also had a 10,000 gate this season against Palace in the cup. Like us they're capable of getting 30,000+ particularly as they're getting so many Yorkshire derbies these days and their crowds now are better than when they were last in the Championship.

 

Going into administration galvanised their support which saw their attendances jump, they are also winning most games and you can buy tickets behind the goals for as little as £16 adults, £8 kids. I reckon our gates would improve in similar circumstances.

 

It will be interesting to see how many fans turn up for the game against Forest as they have reduced an adult ticket to £15.

[Thedelldays]

The Premier Lge/Sky far from taking the game to new levels have effectively killed the game as a competetive spectacle, 4 teams playing for the title every season, another 4 or 5 striving to finish 5th (FFS!) and the rest scrabbling to stay there. The £££££££'s from TV and sponsorship continue to dissapear into the pockets of a relatively small elite of players/agents/hangers-on etc etc etc.

 

.

sky have nothing to do with it..

 

liverpool were more successful just before sky came in domestically and in europe tha any team today...they did that without sky money..

 

dont recall many different teams winning the league in the 80's either

[Graffito]

Much mention of Saints having had a big squad of average players. The reason we had lots of average players is because we've had too many managers over the past 5 years. Who hired and fired the managers?

[krissyboy31]

Both Strachan and RedKrapp stated that the squad they took over was too big and both wanted to thin it out and pay more in wages to get a better but leaner squad (with a similar overall salary burden). Because of Lowe's glass ceiling on wages neither was allowed to do that. Strachan put up with it for so long until he couldn't take the club any further under these restraints. RedKrapp was never going to be able to keep to Lowe's policy and hence he lost interest in the job very quickly.

[lordswoodsaints]

LOL

 

you could not make it up..

 

less than 5 years ago we played pompey at home in the league and beat them (easily) 3-0 and went 4th in the table (PREMIERSHIP)...we had some bloody good players with a top english striker...

 

we had it all, full stadiums every week, fans even raising the question about making SMS bigger, we had a Euro (brief) adventure, we had a manager we all absolutely loved and we all thought we were about to embark on a new era for SFC and cement ourselves in the top 8 and regulalry challenge for the UEFA cup...

 

 

oh my god, how wrong did it go...in less than 5 years we are an absolute shambles and staring L1 and administration right in the face....it is not a question of IF but WHEN on both front...

 

that is probably why I could not care less about the club anymore....why should I keep going when fundemtal mistakes are being made by those who look after MY club..I simply cannot trust them to use my money wisely...

 

 

is that so bad...?

 

these things happen,just look at leeds,it took less than 5 years for them to fall and they hit the higher heights than we did so in a way they had more to lose.

 

if you stop going then you are denying the club precious income,how is that going to help our situation?

did you ever offer to pay more when we were flying high in the league,playing entertaining football and getting to the fa cup final?

you cannot decide not to support a team just because they dont buy a player you rate or employ a certain manager or are not doing too good on the pitch.lowe might be many things but he has always been very cautious with the pennies so im sure your money will be safe.

what would you like the club to do with your money? what would make you happy? what would make you come back to being a proper fan and not a fairweather one?

[Mr X]

LOL

 

you could not make it up..

 

less than 5 years ago we played pompey at home in the league and beat them (easily) 3-0 and went 4th in the table (PREMIERSHIP)...we had some bloody good players with a top english striker...

 

we had it all, full stadiums every week, fans even raising the question about making SMS bigger, we had a Euro (brief) adventure, we had a manager we all absolutely loved and we all thought we were about to embark on a new era for SFC and cement ourselves in the top 8 and regulalry challenge for the UEFA cup...

 

 

oh my god, how wrong did it go...in less than 5 years we are an absolute shambles and staring L1 and administration right in the face....it is not a question of IF but WHEN on both front...

 

that is probably why I could not care less about the club anymore....why should I keep going when fundemtal mistakes are being made by those who look after MY club..I simply cannot trust them to use my money wisely...

 

 

is that so bad...?

 

If Lowe was asked why we have fallen so far in such a short time, what do you think he'd say?

[offix]

How did we get here? Easy. Michael Wilde bringing us back Ru**rt.

I looked him up in the dictionary. Here's what I found;

 

Traitor

Pronunciation: \trā-tər\

Function: noun

Etymology:

Middle English traytour, from Anglo-French traitre, from Latin traditor, from tradere to hand over, deliver, betray, from trans-, tra- trans- + dare to give —

1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty

2 : one who commits treason

Judas

Pronunciation: \jü-dəs\

Function: noun

Etymology:

Late Latin, from Greek Ioudas, from Hebrew Yĕhūdhāh

1 a: the apostle who in the Gospel accounts betrayed Jesus

1 b: a son of James and one of the twelve apostles

2 : especially : one who betrays under the guise of friendship

Quisling

Pronunciation: \kwiz-liŋ\

Function: noun

Usage: often attributive

Etymology: Vidkun Quisling †1945 Norwegian politician who collaborated with the Nazis

1 : see entry for traitor

2 : see entry for collaborator

 

Collaborator

Top of Form

Pronunciation: \kə-la-bə-rāt\

Function: intransitive verb

Inflected Form(s): col•lab•o•rat•ed; col•lab•o•rat•ing

Etymology: Late Latin collaboratus, past participle of collaborare to labor together, from Latin com- + laborare to labor — more at labor

1 : to work jointly with others or together especially in an intellectual endeavor

2 : to cooperate with or willingly assist an enemy of one's country and especially an occupying force

3 : to cooperate with an agency or instrumentality with which one is not immediately connected

[Wes Tender]

Thanks for clarifying that. I presume you're also an active poster on www.whatwilltheweatherdotoday.com where every additional post you make demonstrates just how little you care.

 

Admit it. You care about this club. You're caught between supporting the team wholeheartedly and the feeling that you're being taken for a ride. Your self-protection instincts kick-in to tell you that to save yourself from being "hurt", you have to back away from the club. But you can't. You feel impotent. If appears unfair. It hurts.

 

Welcome to my world.

 

Personally I think it's more complicated than "I could not care less about the club".

Fair enough and I'm sorry to hear that you will never again feel the thrill of a win turn to the the desperation that a loss brings turning again to hope at the next win.

 

Both very perceptive posts that strike a chord with me and I'm sure many others.

[Saint_Jonny]

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan these threads are getting boring lol

[InvictaSaint]

This made me chuckle (and choke, slightly) on the OS today. You couldn't make it up - Chemical Ali would have been proud:

 

"Chairman Michael Wilde talks about the Club's ambitions for a return to the Premier League."

 

That would be sometime in the 22nd Century then Michael, would it?

[70's Mike]

Both Strachan and RedKrapp stated that the squad they took over was too big and both wanted to thin it out and pay more in wages to get a better but leaner squad (with a similar overall salary burden). Because of Lowe's glass ceiling on wages neither was allowed to do that. Strachan put up with it for so long until he couldn't take the club any further under these restraints. RedKrapp was never going to be able to keep to Lowe's policy and hence he lost interest in the job very quickly.

 

very true

[Dalek2003]

I have to laugh.....as i will cry..I used to love this club..I loved being the underdog, watching some of our crazy signings, ali dia etc....

it was all part of the wackyness that I loved about saints....

 

now, we are just a joke, bland and making stupid stupid mistakes, not just now but right from when WGS left...

 

I thought Lowe did a decent job up until WGS left, i really did...but what happened after through until now is totally unforgiveable...and I have to laugh at the shambles or I will get too angry

 

Yer, that wackiness continued when we signed a League 1 nobody as our new manager over an successful ex England and successful ex saints boss. Oh, and the biggest irony was that the decision was madfe after the lunatics had taken over the asylum !!!

We were mugged and beaten when that happened, but the lunatics won't even admit who they were !

[alpine_saint]

Rubbish. I haven't airbrushed Lowe's part in our relegation out of things, but I cannot speculate on what might have happened if he'd still been here, the fact is that he wasn't and the idiots that were took a gamble and it failed. That is an undisputed fact.

 

1. You did airbrush Lowe's role out in that post.

 

2. If Lowe had stayed in charge, what is happening now would have happened 18months earlier. Flog the decent players/high wager earners (though in this case to get the right results to pay dividends), push the kids, alienate fan base, administration

 

3.The "gamble" as you describe it failed, yes. I for one think it was worth the risk, especially if we had tried it a year earlier, been more ambitious and had kept the likes of Kevin Phillips. Oh, remind me, who ****ed all the players off with his 50% clauses ? Also, the "gamble" would have succeeded but for a cretinous drunk of a manager.

[rocknrollman no2]

Yer, that wackiness continued when we signed a League 1 nobody as our new manager over an successful ex England and successful ex saints boss. Oh, and the biggest irony was that the decision was madfe after the lunatics had taken over the asylum !!!

We were mugged and beaten when that happened, but the lunatics won't even admit who they were !

 

But if i remember rightly didnt Sturrock get us winning most games ?

[Dalek2003]

Getting to the cup final was the start of the decline IMO.

 

As a footballing achievement it means next to naff all, the win against Spurs was good but what followed was a spectacularly lucky run of games (luck that we were long overdue). Any club from the top two leagues could have pulled off what we did - just like Millwall did just after.

 

Getting to the cup final (and into Europe - as if they were two seperate achievements) just feeded Lowe's ego. He thought he was some sort of genius and that Saints had gone to "the next level" meaning that when he had to next choose a manager he didn't have to listen to anyone, we wouldn't go down so he could **** about with managers as he saw fit.

 

If our chairman understood the nature of football and wasn't as arrogant we probably would have built on our cup final season.

 

Wrong ! Lowe knew that we needed a man of stauts and experience to take saints through difficult times. He showed leadership in the sense that he was prepared to forgive Hoddle's earlier departure for the good of the club.

The plan was in place but it was scuppered when Hoddle was put off by the gobby minority and a few spineless members of the board who pandered to those vocal idiots.

[Dalek2003]

But if i remember rightly didnt Sturrock get us winning most games ?

 

He did, because we had some good players, but they were not playing for Sturrock. He had lost the changing rooms befor the end of the summer. Our decline started the day Sturrock walked through the door and if PS had remained we WOULD have been relegated !

[70's Mike]

Wrong ! Lowe knew that we needed a man of stauts and experience to take saints through difficult times. He showed leadership in the sense that he was prepared to forgive Hoddle's earlier departure for the good of the club.

The plan was in place but it was scuppered when Hoddle was put off by the gobby minority and a few spineless members of the board who pandered to those vocal idiots.

 

the same spineless guys who keep Rupert in power now, aided by the completely spineless Wilde