25 Man Squad

[Over land and sea]

Our 25 man squad for the first half of the season has to be finalised by 4pm tomorrow. Since we don't have 25 players over 21 (or at the least what qualifies as 21) it ought to be quite straightforward. I wonder whether Dickson and Forte (who is only on loan until November) might be named to make up the numbers. If so we would have 23 players:

 

Kelvin Davis

xx Ryan Dickson

3 Maya Yoshida

5 Jos Hooiveld

6 Jose Fonte

13 Daniel Fox

22 Frazer Richardson

25 Danny Seaborne

32 Danny Butterfield

10 Gaston Ramirez

4 Morgan Schneiderlin

8 Steve Davis

18 Jack Cork

20 Adam Lallana

21 Guilherme Do Prado

27 Richard Chaplow

42 Jason Puncheon

7 Rickie Lambert

9 Jay Rodriguez

19 Tadanari Lee

24 Emmanuel Mayuka

33 Steve De Ridder

xx Jonathan Forte

 

Under 21s

12 Paulo Gazzaniga

xx Cody Cropper

2 Nathaniel Clyne

26 Jack Stephens

23 Luke Shaw

16 James Ward-Prowse

28 Calum Chambers

29 Ben Reeves

34 Corby Moore

35 Sam Hoskins

36 Jake Sinclair

Edited 3 September, 2012 by Over land and sea

[The9]

Our 25 man squad for the first half of the season has to be finalised by 4pm tomorrow. Since we don't have 25 players over 21 (or at the least what qualifies as 21) it ought to be quite straightforward. I wonder whether Dickson and Forte (who is only on loan until November) might be named to make up the numbers. If so we would have 23 players:

 

Kelvin Davis

NA Ryan Dickson

3 Maya Yoshida

5 Jos Hooiveld

6 Jose Fonte

13 Daniel Fox

22 Frazer Richardson

25 Danny Seaborne

32 Danny Butterfield

10 Gaston Ramirez

4 Morgan Schneiderlin

8 Steve Davis

18 Jack Cork

20 Adam Lallana

21 Guilherme Do Prado

27 Richard Chaplow

42 Jason Puncheon

7 Rickie Lambert

9 Jay Rodriguez

19 Tadanari Lee

24 Emmanuel Mayuka

33 Steve De Ridder

xx Jonatahn Forte

 

Under 21s

12 Paulo Gazzaniga

xx Cody Cropper

2 Nathaniel Clyne

26 Jack Stephens

23 Luke Shaw

16 James Ward-Prowse

28 Calum Chambers

29 Ben Reeves

34 Corby Moore

35 Sam Hoskins

36 Jake Sinclair

 

They'd be the 23 then, as we have to name 3 keepers or "lose" a player. So with 2 U21 keepers, we'll lose those two other GK slots. Forte could be named, I guess.

 

We're comfortably within the homegrown limits of course, no more than 17 non-homegrown !

 

Expecting Cropper to get number 31. Has Yoshida been confirmed as 3 now, because 15 is still free (as are 11 and 14, of course)?

[VectisSaint]

Our 25 man squad for the first half of the season has to be finalised by 4pm tomorrow. Since we don't have 25 players over 21 (or at the least what qualifies as 21) it ought to be quite straightforward. I wonder whether Dickson and Forte (who is only on loan until November) might be named to make up the numbers. If so we would have 23 players:

Dickson and Forte will not be named. There is nothing to be gained by padding out the squad list with players who will not play, it restricts options to be able to bring free agents in if required. I suppose there is a question mark over Butterfield and De Ridder but I would think they will be named.

[Flyer]

Dickson and Forte will not be named. There is nothing to be gained by padding out the squad list with players who will not play, it restricts options to be able to bring free agents in if required. I suppose there is a question mark over Butterfield and De Ridder but I would think they will be named.

 

You cant bring in free agents if you dont name players in your squad that could have been named which is why the ADP is ******** because hes not allowed to be registered as Saints wont have any spare spots.

[Saint Garrett]

Yes we will. We can just not name some players it's up to us whether we do or not.

[Saint Garrett]

You just think the ADP thing is ******** cos he's the sort of player that QPR normally buy but offer him a £1m a week.

[Minsk]

Our 25 man squad for the first half of the season has to be finalised by 4pm tomorrow. Since we don't have 25 players over 21 (or at the least what qualifies as 21) it ought to be quite straightforward. I wonder whether Dickson and Forte (who is only on loan until November) might be named to make up the numbers. If so we would have 23 players:

 

Kelvin Davis

NA Ryan Dickson

3 Maya Yoshida

5 Jos Hooiveld

6 Jose Fonte

13 Daniel Fox

22 Frazer Richardson

25 Danny Seaborne

32 Danny Butterfield

10 Gaston Ramirez

4 Morgan Schneiderlin

8 Steve Davis

18 Jack Cork

20 Adam Lallana

21 Guilherme Do Prado

27 Richard Chaplow

42 Jason Puncheon

7 Rickie Lambert

9 Jay Rodriguez

19 Tadanari Lee

24 Emmanuel Mayuka

33 Steve De Ridder

xx Jonatahn Forte

 

Under 21s

12 Paulo Gazzaniga

xx Cody Cropper

2 Nathaniel Clyne

26 Jack Stephens

23 Luke Shaw

16 James Ward-Prowse

28 Calum Chambers

29 Ben Reeves

34 Corby Moore

35 Sam Hoskins

36 Jake Sinclair

 

I thought you only had to name players who are OVER 21; as opposed to not needing to name those UNDER 21.

 

If my understanding is correct it would mean that Ramirez and Mayuka would be classed as extras and not in the 25. Therefore freeing up another 2 places.

[Over land and sea]

I thought you only had to name players who are OVER 21; as opposed to not needing to name those UNDER 21.

 

If my understanding is correct it would mean that Ramirez and Mayuka would be classed as extras and not in the 25. Therefore freeing up another 2 places.

 

According to the Premier League an Under 21 player is defined as one who is under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences. For the 2012/13 campaign Under 21 players will have been born on or after 1st January 1991.

 

Mayuka was born on 21.11.1990 and Ramirez on 02.12.1990 so they are not under 21s.

 

I hadn't realised there had to be three keepers in the 25, so we have lost 2 places.

 

And to answer The 9, Yoshida has been confirmed as number 3 - see squad page on OS. No number for Cropper yet though that definitive source Wikipedia has him listed as number 30.

Edited 3 September, 2012 by Over land and sea

[Bearsy]

I hadn't realised there had to be three keepers in the 25, so we have lost 2 places

 

I ain't sure if that's legit. I only ever heard it on here, and people do talk a lot of rot on here!

 

Where's MLG?

[once_bitterne]

I ain't sure if that's legit. I only ever heard it on here, and people do talk a lot of rot on here!

 

Where's MLG?

 

Out on a date?

 

Bwahhhahhh!!!

[Bearsy]

Poor cow!

 

"No you're wrong Gladice. If you look at attendance figures against stadium capacity over the past ten years... hold on I've got a graph here..."

[Flyer]

I ain't sure if that's legit. I only ever heard it on here, and people do talk a lot of rot on here!

 

Where's MLG?

 

Thats true, its to stop clubs only naming 1 or 2 keepers and then bleat on about how they need an emergency loan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/8960853.stm

"Goalkeeper Fraser Forster is named even though he is on loan at Celtic, as teams are required to include three goalkeepers."

 

Proof ADP cannot be signed.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/New-Premier-League-25-man-squad-rules-explained-What-the-new-regulations-mean-for-your-club-article569649.html

9) Clubs do not have to name a full squad of 25 if they do not have that many contracted players and in this case they can add free agents outside the transfer window. However if they have 25 eligible contracted players, they must be named.

[Bearsy]

Thanks flyer!

 

I don't suppose we have to name Forte if he's out on loan, that's probably why we offered Del Piero a contract

[wireframebox]

I thought the deadline for squad registration was 1st September? There's also nothing in the rules about being able to fill non-allocated slots outside of this? Where are people getting this information?

[Wade Garrett]

Sorry for sounding a bit thick, but does this mean that any 'Bosman' dealing has to be concluded by 4pm today when the squads are named?

[The9]

According to the Premier League an Under 21 player is defined as one who is under the age of 21 on 1st January in the year in which the season commences. For the 2012/13 campaign Under 21 players will have been born on or after 1st January 1991.

 

Mayuka was born on 21.11.1990 and Ramirez on 02.12.1990 so they are not under 21s.

 

I hadn't realised there had to be three keepers in the 25, so we have lost 2 places.

 

And to answer The 9, Yoshida has been confirmed as number 3 - see squad page on OS. No number for Cropper yet though that definitive source Wikipedia has him listed as number 30.

 

Flyer confirmed the 3 keepers thing a few weeks back (and above). I just spotted Yoshida on the OS, strange we haven't added Ramirez yet. Logically Cropper would be 31 based on last year's numbers, but it's not like it matters much and Gazzaniga having 12 messed up that particular numbering system.

 

To answer the "Bosman" thing, my understanding is that if they're not in the squad by 4pm, they can't play before January 1st.

[The9]

Proof ADP cannot be signed.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/New-Premier-League-25-man-squad-rules-explained-What-the-new-regulations-mean-for-your-club-article569649.html

9) Clubs do not have to name a full squad of 25 if they do not have that many contracted players and in this case they can add free agents outside the transfer window. However if they have 25 eligible contracted players, they must be named.

 

It's a bit open to interpretation, as the TW is closed but the squads haven't been named yet, and you can still sign a free agent BEFORE announcing the squad but outside the TW, thereby making him an eligible contracted player to be put into the squad list before it's announced.

 

I think it's only AFTER the squad is announced that the rule to prevent adding free agents if you have enough contracted players counts. i.e. if we left Dickson off it to leave a space, and signed Del Piero, the PL wouldn't allow it. But if we only had (say) 21 contracted over-21s we could add someone.

 

If that's the case, then we could still sign him up to 4pm (but seeing as we have enough pros already we can't without releasing someone !).

[Pancake]

Interesting quote in the Echo:

 

As it stands, Saints will be submitting a list of 22 senior players and nine under-21s, who do not count towards their total, to the Premier League .

 

 

The list cannot be revised until the January transfer window opens but if a squad is short of the 25 total then free agents can be added, meaning a move for Del Piero is still alive.

 

[The9]

Interesting quote in the Echo:

 

Which ignores the bit about having to name all your contracted players to fill up the squad in preference to free agents if you already have them. The Echo must be leaving either Dickson or Forte off. Or both. But if we have them, we don't have free spaces to sign Del Piero, unless (possibly) he's on the original squad list. We definitely won't be able to leave anyone over 21 who has a contract off the list and then add a free agent (see above).

[Bearsy]

Ain't forte out on loan though 9?

[Over land and sea]

Ain't forte out on loan though 9?

 

He is - but he's the only one out on loan whose loan expires before 1 January (when we can revise the squad). So I'm not sure but I would think we may have to include him as he is contracted to play for us from mid-November. We will certainly have to include Dickson as he is contracted to us. That means that, given the 3 goalkeeper rule, we cannot bring in anyone else unless we quickly do a deal before 4pm to ship out one of our current over 21 squad. We could seek to extend Forte's loan until 1 January or later I suppose, or look for a club for Dickson.

 

The Echo is saying we will be submitting a list of 8 under 21s. Why would we want to limit ourselves if we don't have to? I don't see why we don't submit all the U21s and U18s.

[The9]

We should submit a list of every U-21 we have, definitely.

 

Agreed re: Dickson, and that the Forte thing is a bit of a grey area - though it specifies "contracted" and Forte is definitely contracted to us. There are probably precedents with players out on loan, but we'll find out pretty soon anyway.

[david in sweden]

We should submit a list of every U-21 we have, definitely.

 

Agreed re: Dickson, and that the Forte thing is a bit of a grey area - though it specifies "contracted" and Forte is definitely contracted to us.

There are probably precedents with players out on loan, but we'll find out pretty soon anyway.

 

 

there are grey areas and different interpretations, but as Forte is out on loan till January, we won't need to include him - as by the time he's back, the next window will be open and we can submit a revised list.

[The9]

there are grey areas and different interpretations, but as Forte is out on loan till January, we won't need to include him - as by the time he's back, the next window will be open and we can submit a revised list.

 

He's not on loan until January. He's on loan until November. 3 month loan, not half-season. So we'd presumably need to include him ahead of any gap to be filled by a free agent. We will also have 2 gaps for GKs.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/forte-heads-to-crawley-318792.aspx

Edited 4 September, 2012 by The9

[Bearsy]

Dunno if that means that we'd have to include him though 9. I mean, he's not in our squad at the time of submitting the squad. If he was on loan to West Ham till November would he have to be in both our squad and their squad?

[The9]

Dunno if that means that we'd have to include him though 9. I mean, he's not in our squad at the time of submitting the squad. If he was on loan to West Ham till November would he have to be in both our squad and their squad?

 

Good question - obviously we'd have to include him if we wanted to pick him, but that's not the same as having to include him as part of the rules to prevent us being able to sign a free agent.

 

Anyway, we'll know pretty soon, the PremierLeague website has already updated their publications list with "Player List 2012/13" but the link still goes to the squads from Sep 2011/12 at the moment : http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/publications.html

Edited 4 September, 2012 by The9

[shurlock]

Im missing something but why are we supposedly offering Del Piero a contract if there's no space left?

[The9]

When it comes down to it, unless anyone can give an example of some over 21s out on loan from Prem clubs on non-half/or full-season loans last season, I'm not going to be able to check.

[The9]

Im missing something but why are we supposedly offering Del Piero a contract if there's no space left?

 

That's why we're discussing if there's space left.

 

The other argument is that the "free agent vs contracted player" rule doesn't come into play until the squads are announced anyway, so anyone who is free COULD sign before the 4pm deadline without it being a problem, rather than being covered by the "you have to name contracted players first, and can't add free agents if you have sufficient contracted players" rule.

 

Also of note, pretty much every club last season named every contracted scholar on the U21 list, so I'm pretty sure the Echo is wrong with this "naming 8 U-21s" thing. Maybe they just mean that's how many U-21s are actually in the "first team squad", rather than the official Prem squad list.

[Bearsy]

Lack of evidence never stops me from spouting off! I reckon we're definitely getting someone in. I reckon the 25 man squad rule is why we had to send Sharp out on loan.

[Pilchards]

Lack of evidence never stops me from spouting off! I reckon we're definitely getting someone in. I reckon the 25 man squad rule is why we had to send Sharp out on loan.

 

More than likely Dean Hammond as Sharp wanted to go.

[Bearsy]

Lack of evidence never stops me from spouting off! I reckon we're definitely getting someone in. I reckon the 25 man squad rule is why we had to send Dean Hammonds out on loan.

[Pilchards]

Lack of evidence never stops me from spouting off! I reckon we're definitely getting someone in. I reckon the 25 man squad rule is why we had to send Dean Hammonds out on loan.

 

More than likely Billy Sharp!

 

;-)

[The9]

More than likely Dean Hammond as Sharp wanted to go.

 

That's not what his twitter said.

[Over land and sea]

http://www.premierleague.com/content/dam/premierleague/site-content/News/publications/squad-lists/Squad-Lists-September-2012.pdf

 

Here is a link to the full squads. We have named 23 players, inclding Dickson and Forte. The whole of the academy and Under 21s (some 35 players) are then listed separately.

[krissyboy31]

Clyne not in the 25 then!

[Over land and sea]

Clyne not in the 25 then!

No - because he qualifies as under 21 and so is in the under 21 list.

[stu0x]

Clyne not in the 25 then!

He doesn't need to be...

[The9]

Southampton - 25 squad players

Player (Home Grown)

1 Butterfield, Daniel Paul Yes

2 Chaplow, Richard David Yes

3 Cork, Jack Frank Porteous Yes

4 Davis, Kelvin Geoffery Yes

5 Davis, Steven Yes

6 De Ridder, Steve Danny Marc No

7 Dickson, Ryan Anthony Yes

8 Do Prado Raymundo, Guilherme No

9 Fonte, Jose Miguel No

10 Forte, Jonathan Ronald James Yes

11 Fox, Daniel Yes

12 Hooiveld, Jos No

13 Lallana, Adam David Yes

14 Lambert, Rickie Lee Yes

15 Lee, Tadanari No

16 Mayuka, Emmanuel No

17 Puncheon, Jason David Ian Yes

18 Ramirez Pereyra, Gaston Exequiel No

19 Richardson, Frazer Yes

20 Rodriguez, Jay Enriqus Yes

21 Schneiderlin, Morgan Yes

22 Seaborne, Daniel Anthony Yes

23 Yoshida, Maya No

 

Southampton - Under 21 players (Contract and Scholars)

Ariyibi, Omogbolahan Gregory

Branker, Jamal Arron Christopher

Britt, William David

Chambers, Calum

Clyne, Nathaniel Edwin

Colmer, Fraser William

Curtis, Joe Edward

Flannigan, Jake

Gallagher, Samuel James

Gape, Dominic Edward

Gazzaniga, Paulo Dino

Hesketh, Jake Alexander

Higgins, Charlie

Hoskins, Samuel Tobias

Isgrove, Lloyd Jeffrey

Johns, Christopher Patrick Adam

Leggett, Thomas Jacob

McCarthy, Jason Sean

McQueen, Samuel James

Moore, Corby James

Mugabi, Bevis Kristofer Kizito

Reed, Harrison James

Reeves, Benjamin Neil

Robinson, Andreas Sonny

Rowe, Omar Reiss

Seager, Ryan Paul

Seidi, Alberto Adulai

Shaw, Luke Paul Hoare

Sinclair, Jake Tony

Stephens, Jack

Targett, Matthew Robert

Turnbull, Jordan Robert

Ward-Prowse, James Michael Edward

White, James Steven St John

Young, Matthew Robert

[The9]

Nice to know that stuff about having to name 3 keepers was right anyway.

 

And all the questions about Schneiderlin counting as homegrown. Speaking of which, we can sign another EIGHT non-homegrown players before we have to worry about the limit!

 

Oh, and we definitely can't sign any free agents unless we cancel someone's contract.

Edited 4 September, 2012 by The9

[krissyboy31]

He doesn't need to be...

 

Born April '91. What was the cut-off date?

[RonManager]

Nice to know that stuff about having to name 3 keepers was right anyway.

 

And all the questions about Schneiderlin counting as homegrown. Speaking of which, we can sign another EIGHT non-homegrown players before we have to worry about the limit!

 

No Cody Cropper in your list?

[The9]

Born April '91. What was the cut-off date?

 

1st Jan 1991.

[The9]

No Cody Cropper in your list?

 

Apparently not, good spot.

 

That's not "my" list, that's cut and paste from the actual list as published by the Premier League. So we haven't named him in the U-21s. Weird.

 

That's why we have 2 gaps in the 25 though, you have to name 3 GKs and we've only named one.

[The9]

Now we've got the link, can we start taking the p155 out of people's middle names ?

 

"Cork, Jack Frank Porteous" indeed !

[madruss]

Apparently not, good spot.

 

That's not "my" list, that's cut and paste from the actual list as published by the Premier League. So we haven't named him in the U-21s. Weird.

 

That's why we have 2 gaps in the 25 though, you have to name 3 GKs and we've only named one.

 

So surely we have one gap which could be filled by a free agent? Or am I missing something?

[The9]

So surely we have one gap which could be filled by a free agent? Or am I missing something?

 

You're missing that we haven't named 3 goalkeepers in the 25, we can only name 22 outfielders. And we have. Plus Kelvin, equals 23.

 

So arguably, yes, we could sign Del Piero. But we'd have to play him in goal.

[Flyer]

So surely we have one gap which could be filled by a free agent? Or am I missing something?

 

The only FA you can sign is a goalie, well 2 in fact. The squad list is 3 goalies plus 22 outfielders and you have 1 goalie and 22 outfielders.

[krissyboy31]

Question. If Forte and/or Dickson go out in the loan window, would we be able to replace them if a suitable non-contract player became available?

[The9]

The only FA you can sign is a goalie, well 2 in fact. The squad list is 3 goalies plus 22 outfielders and you have 1 goalie and 22 outfielders.

 

I'm interested to see if there's an U21 keeper other than Gazzaniga on the list, seeing as we haven't named Cropper. Looks a little like an emergency loan scam...