Bomb in Boston

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I think you'll find that what drives most people who are into conspiracy theories are the consequences of the atrocities for our societies, which include the erosion of many of the rights you say we have. Some extremely scary legislation was passed in the decade after 9/11. I don't suppose you know that the UK has its very own enabling act, introduced in 2006, which allows any law to be modified and new laws to be created without the consent of Parliament. These new laws can presently only carry a 2 year custodial jail sentence, but the best bit is that the law can be used to modify itself, removing any effective safeguard of a 2 year maximum term.

 

That, my friend, is anti-democratic in every way, a potential tool for a future oppressor and quite frankly, scary as hell. It would never have made it into law outside the helter-skelter climate of fear that existed after 9/11.

 

George W Bush famously said that terrorists wouldn't change the way we live. He was right; our own politicians did that.

 

Very off topic, but I lived with an incessantly annoying champagne socialist whilst in halls. She used to tell me how evil the Tories were, as they wanted to "erode all of our civil liberties" - whilst also telling me how great Blair & Brown are. When I pointed out these policies to her, in addition to nonsense like indefinite detention (which when I compared to Guantanamo - she rejected out of hand, even though it is true) and ID cards she was uncharacteristically speechless. Not a comparison to you Pap, just a lil anecdote that amuses me.

 

Back on topic, I do agree entirely that the last decade has seen a frightening decrease in our liberties. Some really, really scary stuff has been passed to 'protect us'. Despite all of this, are we actually any safer?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Compared to what we became used to from the IRA for instance the two Boston bombs - while obviously lethal to those nearby - appear to be relatively small devices. To my mind this suggests that responsibility for this crime is just as likely to lay with some deranged individual rather that a major terrorist organisation or even state action.

 

Time will tell.

[Crab Lungs]

The people that purport these conspiracies usually have their own axes to grind, and agendas to push.

 

Note one of the first people to start to conspiracy talk was the lovely Alex Jones.

 

Alex Jones... one of the world's biggest f()cknuts.:x

[mcjwills]

Compared to what we became used to from the IRA for instance the two Boston bombs - while obviously lethal to those nearby - appear to be relatively small devices. To my mind this suggests that responsibility for this crime is just as likely to lay with some deranged individual rather that a major terrorist organisation or even state action.

 

Time will tell.

 

Funny that was my thought, I was under the impression having seen on news reports the last 30 years various IRA atrocities, the size of the explosion was rather small in comparison, leading to my impression that it was either an extremist group of USA citizens or a deranged individual. A major terrorist group or state authorised bomb probably would have been a larger blast. My thoughts do go out to all those affected as in these actions it is only innocent people that hurt.

[Guan 2.0]

Conspiracy theories make me very angry. It's this kind of moany, against-the-world, informative overloading attitude that frankly has corrupted most Western societies into having so much contempt for its leaders and ultimately dropping the crucial levels of civic participation that make it all work.

 

The West has indeed become very fickle and hypocritical. We love to bash everything we have here, from politics to economics to historical facts and general society behavior and liberties under the comfort of our roof and laptop computers and the social media sites we visit in them. I don't get why there is so much "anti-westernism" by westerners. Change this into Venezuela, Iran or some absolutist arab kingdom and we would all hate it, yet all the populace wants is to bash, bash, smash and bash.

 

Gets on my nerves really...

 

In all honesty, whilst the endless conspiracy theories from serial contrarians annoy me, there have been many cases where the 'conspiracy theorists' label have been used to discredit research that has later been proven valid. Just look at incidents and cases such as Clive Ponting, the Zircon affair, and the reform of the 1989 official secrets act which removes the defence of 'public interest’, and effectively allows the government of the day to define what is in the public interest.

 

For my part, I'm guessing this could be Secessionists. Birthplace of liberty, patriots day, gun control mish-mash of 'true America' twaddle.

[pap]

Compared to what we became used to from the IRA for instance the two Boston bombs - while obviously lethal to those nearby - appear to be relatively small devices. To my mind this suggests that responsibility for this crime is just as likely to lay with some deranged individual rather that a major terrorist organisation or even state action.

 

Time will tell.

 

I've seen numerous rumblings and would not want to speculate too much here, but your suggestion that this may be attributed to a "deranged individual" is already doing the rounds. The only logical problem that I have with that notion is this. There were two blasts, more or less going off at the same time ( "seconds apart", according to the BBC ). This implies that those responsible intended those bombs to go off at that specific time. So here's my problem with the deranged individual hypothesis. Why not set the bombs off at the start of the race, when more people were around?

 

Previous experience of the deranged and disaffected US citizen suggests that they try to inflict maximum casualties.

[dubai_phil]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2309545/Martin-Richard-Boston-Marathon-bombings-victim-aged-8-waiting-father-hug-finish-line.html

 

Same style of bombs as used as IED's in Afghanistan. Made in a pressure cooker.

 

Now THAT could be bad news for America

 

Although no group has yet claimed responsibility for the attacks, similar devices were used in the failed 2010 attempt to bomb Times Square by Faisal Shahzad, who admitted he had undergone bomb-making training at a militant Islamist faction camp in Pakistan.

A pressure-cooker bomb is also a preferred weapon of al-Qaeda and listed as the 'most effective' weapon of jihad, according to an English-language terror magazine called Inspire.

Another article in Inspire last year listed 'the most important enemy targets' for jihadists in America - and included sporting events, CNSNews noted.

 

Edited 16 April, 2013 by dubai_phil

[pap]

All sorts of speculation going on at the moment. I think a few commentators have mentioned how the slight delay between the two bombs was an IRA tactic.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

I've seen numerous rumblings and would not want to speculate too much here, but your suggestion that this may be attributed to a "deranged individual" is already doing the rounds. The only logical problem that I have with that notion is this. There were two blasts, more or less going off at the same time ( "seconds apart", according to the BBC ). This implies that those responsible intended those bombs to go off at that specific time. So here's my problem with the deranged individual hypothesis. Why not set the bombs off at the start of the race, when more people were around?

 

Previous experience of the deranged and disaffected US citizen suggests that they try to inflict maximum casualties.

 

How do you second guess a deranged individual?

[alpine_saint]

All sorts of speculation going on at the moment. I think a few commentators have mentioned how the slight delay between the two bombs was an IRA tactic.

 

Ironic therefore that this happened in Boston...

 

RIP Martin Richard and the other victims.

[JackFrost]

Apparently they've arrested a suspect

[andysstuff]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22190353

[badgerx16]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2309545/Martin-Richard-Boston-Marathon-bombings-victim-aged-8-waiting-father-hug-finish-line.html

 

Same style of bombs as used as IED's in Afghanistan. Made in a pressure cooker.

 

And the instructions on how to make them can apparently be found on the Internet - doesn't mean there's actually a link between Boston & Afghanistan.

[andysstuff]

Boston courthouse been evacuated. Not sure if there's a suspicious package there of whether they are bringing a suspect in

[Pugwash]

Now there are Ricin letters being sent:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22190031

[Viking Warrior]

FBI agents now saying they have identified a suspect . More to follow

[Saint-scooby]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f04_1366229238

 

 

WOW scary stuff

[pap]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f04_1366229238

 

WOW scary stuff

 

I've been checking in on this story on conspiracy sites for a few days. The linked pictures come from 4chan.

 

The two large blokes with backpacks look dodgy as hell, but according to some of the reports I've seen from Boston, they're apparently with the authorities.

 

The most interesting picture on that link is the one that comes from the anonymous poster, which basically says they're going to nick a bloke in his 20s tomorrow who has NRA literature in his house.

[pap]

FBI agents now saying they have identified a suspect . More to follow

 

Apparently no-one has been arrested yet.

[CB Saint]

Pap, it's as if you love this sort of stuff because it gives you reason to indulge your conspiritist fantasies to the max.

[pap]

Pap, it's as if you love this sort of stuff because it gives you reason to indulge your conspiritist fantasies to the max.

 

I think you go too far when I say I love "this sort of stuff". Let's not forget that some people have died and scores of people have been injured. To be clear, I do not love that sort of stuff. I'd rather that these things did not happen and we were all talking about something else. However, when they do happen, I maintain an interest in stuff across the board, and let me tell ya, there's a lot of crap to sift through and honestly, I'm still not any clearer on many of the details now. There are people out there that'll happily give you a complete A-to-B of who did it, why and what happens next. I can't give you any of those answers, 'cos I just don't know.

 

What I can tell you is that I don't generally trust government narratives. Too many of the recent ones have been untrustworthy, so I keep a close eye on anything new. On a smaller scale, we'd all be suspicious of an individual who had repeatedly told us lies. Don't see why that changes when it becomes a government who are doing the fibbing.

[JackFrost]

Now there's been a massive explosion near Waco, Texas at a fertilizer plant. (where the David Koresh Davidian siege took place 20 years ago)

 

Confirmed deaths and numerous injured.

[Viking Warrior]

Pap I have. Never said anyone was arrested . Sky news at 4am this morning had on their ticker tape that the FBI had Identifeid suspect . I have no idea who did it . Looking at those pictures it looks like more than one person s involved . I don't think the two guys in black jackets had anything to do with it . I think they are security men . Why are so many folk carrying computer like rucksacks .

[shirleysfc]

Now there's been a massive explosion near Waco, Texas at a fertilizer plant. (where the David Koresh Davidian siege took place 20 years ago)

 

Confirmed deaths and numerous injured.

 

That one's an accident thought isn't it?

[Viking Warrior]

The Waco one has killed 60 to 70 . There conspiracy theorists will be have a field day discussing That explosion . Seems like some fire crews have been badly his as has been a care home . I hope it's an accident and not another terrorist atrocity other wise America will go into lock down and the media over here will pull in an army of experts to give their take on that explosion caused by a fire

[pap]

Pap I have. Never said anyone was arrested . Sky news at 4am this morning had on their ticker tape that the FBI had Identifeid suspect . I have no idea who did it . Looking at those pictures it looks like more than one person s involved . I don't think the two guys in black jackets had anything to do with it . I think they are security men . Why are so many folk carrying computer like rucksacks .

 

No worries, VW - there were loads of reports going around yesterday about someone being arrested.

 

I also didn't read your post properly.

Edited 18 April, 2013 by pap

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I think you go too far when I say I love "this sort of stuff". Let's not forget that some people have died and scores of people have been injured. To be clear, I do not love that sort of stuff. I'd rather that these things did not happen and we were all talking about something else. However, when they do happen, I maintain an interest in stuff across the board, and let me tell ya, there's a lot of crap to sift through and honestly, I'm still not any clearer on many of the details now. There are people out there that'll happily give you a complete A-to-B of who did it, why and what happens next. I can't give you any of those answers, 'cos I just don't know.

 

What I can tell you is that I don't generally trust government narratives. Too many of the recent ones have been untrustworthy, so I keep a close eye on anything new. On a smaller scale, we'd all be suspicious of an individual who had repeatedly told us lies. Don't see why that changes when it becomes a government who are doing the fibbing.

 

Serious question Pap.

 

Do you think it's helpful for governments to divulge every piece of information on these sorts of things?

 

In my opinion, which you may disagree, there are some things that would not be helpful to tell us. I have a feeling you may think I am being silly or naive, but, I genuinely think they lie/conceal certain things for security reasons.

 

I'm not claiming this is always done with the best interests of everyone in every case.

[Verbal]

I suppose some feeble-minded planks are going to give credence to this.

 

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/warning-laws-are-being-written-to-screw-you/41206/

[pap]

Serious question Pap.

 

Do you think it's helpful for governments to divulge every piece of information on these sorts of things?

 

In my opinion, which you may disagree, there are some things that would not be helpful to tell us. I have a feeling you may think I am being silly or naive, but, I genuinely think they lie/conceal certain things for security reasons.

 

I'm not claiming this is always done with the best interests of everyone in every case.

 

I think that these acts need to be given the same scrutiny as anything else, and proven in the same way that we normally prove things; on the basis of evidence and on serious charges, a jury of our peers. 9/11 was the crime of the century, yet the level of investigation was p!ss-poor. Anything that fell outside the official narrative was simply excluded. A decent investigator would not run the investigation of a single murder in this way, let alone 3,000.

 

I can accept the view that there may be genuine national security issues during a time of war, but too often, national security is used as means to stop people asking questions. Now, if we'd had an unbroken history of fair dealing when it came to national security matters, then I might be more trusting. However, we are proven liars on the world stage - our PM signed the death warrants for countless lives when he fabricated evidence - and as we've discussed before, national security has been used to erode civil liberties.

[pap]

I suppose some feeble-minded planks are going to give credence to this.

 

http://www.fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/warning-laws-are-being-written-to-screw-you/41206/

 

This was released early doors, I think.

 

I'll give it credence when it happens to a high degree of accuracy, and not before.

[aintforever]

You take a dump in the USA and someone will make up a conspiracy theory as to why.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I think that these acts need to be given the same scrutiny as anything else, and proven in the same way that we normally prove things; on the basis of evidence and on serious charges, a jury of our peers. 9/11 was the crime of the century, yet the level of investigation was p!ss-poor. Anything that fell outside the official narrative was simply excluded. A decent investigator would not run the investigation of a single murder in this way, let alone 3,000.

 

I can accept the view that there may be genuine national security issues during a time of war, but too often, national security is used as means to stop people asking questions. Now, if we'd had an unbroken history of fair dealing when it came to national security matters, then I might be more trusting. However, we are proven liars on the world stage - our PM signed the death warrants for countless lives when he fabricated evidence - and as we've discussed before, national security has been used to erode civil liberties.

 

I think that's pretty fair, and in general I agree with what you are saying.

 

I think one problem is, that 'war' is changing. Increasingly wars are no longer thought as State 'x' vs State 'y'. Terrorism, particularly events like 9/11 change this landscape I feel. The lines of what constitutes war in a traditional sense are being blurred I think, so rightly or wrongly, the practice of keeping things quiet in the name of national security is going to become more prevalent.

 

The important thing, as you mention, is the protection of civil liberties. You can ramp up security as much as you like, but in my opinion, terrorists will always hold the upper hand when it comes to such awful attacks.

[Viking Warrior]

Just seen the news up date, where did the media get the idea 60 -70 were dead, its far far less than was reported earlier this morning, still a terrible accident all the same.

[pap]

Two persons of interest identified, according to (ahem) FOX News.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/17/fbi-boston-police-say-range-suspects-motives-remains-wide-open/

[Viking Warrior]

I wonder if they are the two guys shown in a pictures on another link page on this thread . Someone suggested they were navy seals or security guys . Ones foriegn and the other white . One was wearing a white cap but carrying a rucksack the plot thickens

[pap]

FOX News (twice in one day - I'm a bad man).

 

This is one of their smaller channels. Probably an attempt to smear the devil Obama, but there you go.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=anYwmWlwZuA#

[pap]

I wonder if they are the two guys shown in a pictures on another link page on this thread . Someone suggested they were navy seals or security guys . Ones foriegn and the other white . One was wearing a white cap but carrying a rucksack the plot thickens

 

I've been poring through the David Icke topic this evening. By far the most interesting link so far is this one:-

 

http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/04/boston-marathon-bombing-videos-show-raw-chaos/

 

Third video down, taken in the immediate aftermath of the bomb. The cameraman manages to get to the scene quick smart before being turned away.

 

Barely anyone there.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

http://twitter.com/CNBC/status/324997212327268353/photo/1

 

FBI release photos of suspects

[KelvinsRightGlove]

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/22017201/2013/04/18/fbi-confirms-photo-of-possible-2nd-bomber-possible-bomb-before-explosion#.UXBZItTsnN4.twitter

[pap]

Live station.

 

http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive/

[andysstuff]

Sounding like a suspect in custody following a shoot out at MIT

[Viking Warrior]

Bbc slow with this news going on about Rolfe Harris

[Essruu]

http://www.twitter.com/akitz

 

Live updates and photos from a resident in the building where the shoot-out took place.

[andysstuff]

Guardian have live updates too

[pap]

One suspect in the Boston bombings has been killed, apparently.

 

I don't expect the other will be taken alive either.

 

That's that, then

[KelvinsRightGlove]

One suspect in the Boston bombings has been killed, apparently.

 

I don't expect the other will be taken alive either.

 

That's that, then

 

- why?

[pap]

- why?

 

Dead men tell no tales, KRG. Will be interested to see what they have on the fella.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Dead men tell no tales, KRG. Will be interested to see what they have on the fella.

 

And you wonder why people say you love this conspiracy stuff?

[PhilippineSaint]

It was done from the grassy knoll

[pap]

And you wonder why people say you love this conspiracy stuff?

 

I don't wonder why at all. I love a good conspiracy theory. I'd believe them all if I could.