Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 I think that a great measure of our improvement this year has been how difficult it has been for teams to get the 3 points from us. We have only been beaten by more than 1 goal twice this season and both times they were against teams in the top 4. We haven't been beaten by more than 1 goal at home and we haven't been beaten by more than 2 goals at all. I can't remember any game where I felt we were completely out of it and in every game I felt like we had a chance of getting something as the game reached the closing stages. If we manage to keep the core of this team together and strengthen a couple of areas in January then the second half of the season could be a lot of fun and I think we could genuinely push for that desired top 6 spot. With all of the title contenders except City still having to play us at St Mary's, I think we will have a small say in who will win the league this year. All in all, I am feeling pretty smug about being a saint at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Well, looking down the 'games lost' column of the table, I'd say we're the joint 8th hardest team to beat in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 We have lost 5 of the last 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 We have lost 5 of the last 8 But it hasn't been easy has it. A few bits of luck and decisions for us instead of against and that tally is significantly less. The point isn't that we have lost a lot in December, the point is that the teams that have beaten us will have come out of the game feeling a bit fortunate and we could easily turn those defeats around when the pendulum swings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Agree with OP - of course we've lost a bunch of games, and results have dipped recently coinciding with playing most of the top sides and a run of injuries. But we've never really looked out of any match - except perhaps Chelsea in the second half. Great to see some real fighting spirit and resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 But it hasn't been easy has it. A few bits of luck and decisions for us instead of against and that tally is significantly less. The point isn't that we have lost a lot in December, the point is that the teams that have beaten us will have come out of the game feeling a bit fortunate and we could easily turn those defeats around when the pendulum swings! But weve lost 5 of 8 so no we are not hard to beat (atm) only Fulham and Mansfield have lost more in the last 8 accross all four leagues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 But weve lost 5 of 8 so no we are not hard to beat (atm) only Fulham and Mansfield have lost more in the last 8 accross all four leagues But we have only lost 1 of our last 2 games, whereas Liverpool have lost both of their last 2 games, so clearly we are twice as hard to beat as Liverpool. Stop being a WUM, we are all fed up to the back teeth of you on this forum. Try using a bit of sense and either don't bother replying or at least contribute something meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 But weve lost 5 of 8 so no we are not hard to beat (atm) only Fulham and Mansfield have lost more in the last 8 accross all four leagues So, are you not looking forward to the second half of the season? Do we think this is now the position our team is in and we will continue losing 5 out of 8 for the next 20 games? Do you think teams play saints thinking, ''they've lost 5 of 8 so this will be an easy win''. Do other fans come to St Mary's thinking, ''this saints side are shocking, they've lost 5 of 8 so if we don't take them apart I'm gonna be upset''?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 But we have only lost 1 of our last 2 games, whereas Liverpool have lost both of their last 2 games, so clearly we are twice as hard to beat as Liverpool. Stop being a WUM, we are all fed up to the back teeth of you on this forum. Try using a bit of sense and either don't bother replying or at least contribute something meaningful. Our recent form where we have lost a significant number of games is pretty "meaningful" on a thread with people calling us particularly hard to beat. We got beat two days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 So, are you not looking forward to the second half of the season? Do we think this is now the position our team is in and we will continue losing 5 out of 8 for the next 20 games? Do you think teams play saints thinking, ''they've lost 5 of 8 so this will be an easy win''. Do other fans come to St Mary's thinking, ''this saints side are shocking, they've lost 5 of 8 so if we don't take them apart I'm gonna be upset''?!?!?! No but you said "are we the hardest team to beat in the league" the answer is no...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 No but you said "are we the hardest team to beat in the league" the answer is no...... No I didn't! You should read the title again mate as I don't think you would disagree that we are one of the hardest teams to beat in the league? Have you watched a game this year where we have been hammered out sight? Or one where you didn't think we were going to get anything from it? I bet you most managers that beat us feel like they got away with it and for a really young inexperienced side this is a great thing. I can't wait to watch this squad improve in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Our recent form where we have lost a significant number of games is pretty "meaningful" on a thread with people calling us particularly hard to beat. We got beat two days ago. Do you think we are an easy team to beat then? Were you embarrassed watching us in these last 8 games because we've just rolled over and had our tummies tickled? I think even in defeat there are big positives to take, and one of them is that the pendulum could swing our way again and we could go on another big run. Hopefully it starts tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Also if we didn't have under pressure ****tenburg in charge we would have had a penalty at Goodison and achieved another great point away from home at a really tough place to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Do you think we are an easy team to beat then? Were you embarrassed watching us in these last 8 games because we've just rolled over and had our tummies tickled? I think even in defeat there are big positives to take, and one of them is that the pendulum could swing our way again and we could go on another big run. Hopefully it starts tomorrow I expect us to lose tomorrow (suggesting we are not hard to beat) that will be 6 defeats in 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeintheslowlane Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 I expect us to lose tomorrow (suggesting we are not hard to beat) that will be 6 defeats in 9 Jeez is that going to make you happy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 I expect us to lose tomorrow (suggesting we are not hard to beat) that will be 6 defeats in 9 Do you think we will be hammered then? Do you think Mr Mourinho is making his travels expecting to thump us out of sight? Here's a bet for you, if we are not beaten easily tomorrow (by more than 2 goals) you are only allowed to post positive comments for the month of January? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Do you think we will be hammered then? Do you think Mr Mourinho is making his travels expecting to thump us out of sight? Here's a bet for you, if we are not beaten easily tomorrow (by more than 2 goals) you are only allowed to post positive comments for the month of January? Which teams in this league are "easy" to beat? Did you see the Man City v Palace game? Probably only a couple of teams can really fall into the "easy" category at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 This was actually potentially a decent positive thread, before it was derailed by the tool of the year. When will the mods do anything? He's only posts to get reactions and wind people up. New posters are taken in by him, and it all gets a bit messy. I think we're hard to beat, I don't think anyone has had an easy game against us this year. We may have lost a couple, but I don't think Everton will be coming away saying that it was an easy game. We're well organised, disciplined and stick to our principles - win, lose or draw. It's that panic free approach which will see us return to winning ways very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Do you think we will be hammered then? Do you think Mr Mourinho is making his travels expecting to thump us out of sight? Here's a bet for you, if we are not beaten easily tomorrow (by more than 2 goals) you are only allowed to post positive comments for the month of January? Losing by one goal doesnt reflect the ease. Everton for example, we had two shots on target all game. As soon as we scored Everton kicked back a gear and scored again.... They controlled the match but allowed us possesion in non threatening areas. Same as vs Spurs You could ifs, buts and maybes for every game for every club. Facts are weve lost 5 of our last 8. Only fulham and mansfield in all four divs have lost more You need to change the title to "are we one of the hardest teams to beat in the league by a few goals" as youve swung the debate from the original question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Agree that we haven't been stuffed (yet) but we have still lost too many to be classed as difficult to beat. Losing is losing - and when it just by the odd goal it just makes it harder to disregard. You keep getting those "what if" thoughts, like that f***ing penalty incident at Everton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Which teams in this league are "easy" to beat? Did you see the Man City v Palace game? Probably only a couple of teams can really fall into the "easy" category at best. That's a good point, but they have been thumped a few times this year and the mentality of playing Palace is unarguably a little different to playing saints would you not think? I'm trying to find something positive here for the new year coming after a tough period for the mighty saints. Give me a little help! The pendulum will swing again in 2014 and we'll be back challenging for 6th spot again and hopefully we will all have big smiles on our faces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Losing by one goal doesnt reflect the ease. Everton for example, we had two shots on target all game. As soon as we scored Everton kicked back a gear and scored again.... They controlled the match but allowed us possesion in non threatening areas. Same as vs Spurs You could ifs, buts and maybes for every game for every club. Facts are weve lost 5 of our last 8. Only fulham and mansfield in all four divs have lost more You need to change the title to "are we one of the hardest teams to beat in the league by a few goals" as youve swung the debate from the original question Is that a no bet sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 That's a good point, but they have been thumped a few times this year and the mentality of playing Palace is unarguably a little different to playing saints would you not think? I'm trying to find something positive here for the new year coming after a tough period for the mighty saints. Give me a little help! The pendulum will swing again in 2014 and we'll be back challenging for 6th spot again and hopefully we will all have big smiles on our faces! Palace under Pulis have been pretty hard to beat. So are we most of the time. I'm pretty relaxed that our results will pick up again soon enough anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Do you think we are an easy team to beat then? Were you embarrassed watching us in these last 8 games because we've just rolled over and had our tummies tickled? I think even in defeat there are big positives to take, and one of them is that the pendulum could swing our way again and we could go on another big run. Hopefully it starts tomorrow So the choice are "hardest team to beat in the league" or "easy team to beat/get hammered/tummy tickled". Right you are then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 So the choice are "hardest team to beat in the league" or "easy team to beat/get hammered/tummy tickled". Right you are then. No mate, the choice is one of the hardest teams to beat in the leagueor not one of the hardest teams to beat in the league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 I think a bit of complacency is setting in with us Saints fans. Sure, we've battled fairly well of late considering the injuries we have had, but our current results are still indicative of relegation form. Another couple of defeats and the players 'confidence' will decline - maybe even NC's, who knows? Do we really have greater qualities than the team that went 20 matches without a win in the late 80's? I think that we do, but don't take anything for granted. I, for one, won't be relieved until we have passed the 40 points barrier. Also, please remember that we were 5th or 7th at Christmas in 1973 and then got relegated! I think this team is too good for that, but it must now ignore all the hype about MP, the Academy, the England hopefuls, and just concentrate on grinding out 'ugly' results for a few games. Are we hard to beat? Clearly not. Do we compete? Yes, we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 I think a bit of complacency is setting in with us Saints fans. Sure, we've battled fairly well of late considering the injuries we have had, but our current results are still indicative of relegation form. Another couple of defeats and the players 'confidence' will decline - maybe even NC's, who knows? Do we really have greater qualities than the team that went 20 matches without a win in the late 80's? I think that we do, but don't take anything for granted. I, for one, won't be relieved until we have passed the 40 points barrier. Also, please remember that we were 5th or 7th at Christmas in 1973 and then got relegated! I think this team is too good for that, but it must now ignore all the hype about MP, the Academy, the England hopefuls, and just concentrate on grinding out 'ugly' results for a few games. Are we hard to beat? Clearly not. Do we compete? Yes, we do. Do you not think though that this run of form is just one of those things that happen in sport? Sometimes in sport and in life things just don't go well even though you are doing the right things. Or do you think we desperately need to shake things up because this is all wrong?! So many things in football are ifs and buts but this run of defeats isn't really as bad as it seems as we could have got something out of all of them, it just wasn't to be. There are still loads of positives from the performances even though the direct end result is poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 If we get that penalty and a draw at Everton, Villa don't score a screamer at the end of the game etc.. etc... it all looks a bit different but the performances were still the same. The direct end result isn't always a true reflection of where a team is in terms of ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 We can't be that hard to beat. Many teams seem to manage it ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 If we get that penalty and a draw at Everton, Villa don't score a screamer at the end of the game etc.. etc... it all looks a bit different but the performances were still the same. The direct end result isn't always a true reflection of where a team is in terms of ability. I like your spirit i do and agree that some positives can be taken. At full strengh our team is hard to beat (but most teams would say the same) problem is how often are teams at full strengh? We were lucky in some respects that we were gifted kind fixtures and didnt get injuries till late november. Problem is when team is not at full strengh mopo / team seem to struggle Few injuries end of last season = no wins in last 6 Few injuries now = just 2 wins in 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Do you not think though that this run of form is just one of those things that happen in sport? Sometimes in sport and in life things just don't go well even though you are doing the right things. Or do you think we desperately need to shake things up because this is all wrong?! So many things in football are ifs and buts but this run of defeats isn't really as bad as it seems as we could have got something out of all of them, it just wasn't to be. There are still loads of positives from the performances even though the direct end result is poor. Thinking sensibly, it is probable that this run of form is just down to the quality of opposition, a little bit of bad luck, and the injuries that we have had. However, a run of defeats can cause self doubt and a drop in confidence, which leads to an overall drop in performance.....leading to more defeats. That is football. This is why I think Saints need to grind out a few results to avoid this Domesday scenario from happening. If we lose to Chelsea then the pressure begins to build, not only on the team but also on MP. The positive thing is that we are never out of our depth, home or away, which means our competiveness is still there. I'm sure that once Boruc is back then things will begin to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 I like your spirit i do and agree that some positives can be taken. At full strengh our team is hard to beat (but most teams would say the same) problem is how often are teams at full strengh? We were lucky in some respects that we were gifted kind fixtures and didnt get injuries till late november. Problem is when team is not at full strengh mopo / team seem to struggle Few injuries end of last season = no wins in last 6 Few injuries now = just 2 wins in 12 I agree we definitely to strengthen the bench and squad in general. If we do that though with how we are currently performing (I said performing, it's not results based) then we have some exciting times coming up. Honest question, are you looking forward to the second half of the season and more importantly next year? I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Thinking sensibly, it is probable that this run of form is just down to the quality of opposition, a little bit of bad luck, and the injuries that we have had. However, a run of defeats can cause self doubt and a drop in confidence, which leads to an overall drop in performance.....leading to more defeats. That is football. This is why I think Saints need to grind out a few results to avoid this Domesday scenario from happening. If we lose to Chelsea then the pressure begins to build, not only on the team but also on MP. The positive thing is that we are never out of our depth, home or away, which means our competiveness is still there. I'm sure that once Boruc is back then things will begin to improve. You are right and momentum plays a huge part and this probably has a lot to do with how our recent results have gone. Hopefully we get a result tomorrow and start another great run. I don't think even the most pessimistic saint could argue against that if we keep our core team and strengthen a few areas the future looks very rosie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 I agree we definitely to strengthen the bench and squad in general. If we do that though with how we are currently performing (I said performing, it's not results based) then we have some exciting times coming up. Honest question, are you looking forward to the second half of the season and more importantly next year? I am! Yes of course. Look forward to every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Yes of course. Look forward to every game Up the saints! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 This was actually potentially a decent positive thread, before it was derailed by the tool of the year. When will the mods do anything? He's only posts to get reactions and wind people up. New posters are taken in by him, and it all gets a bit messy. I think we're hard to beat, I don't think anyone has had an easy game against us this year. We may have lost a couple, but I don't think Everton will be coming away saying that it was an easy game. We're well organised, disciplined and stick to our principles - win, lose or draw. It's that panic free approach which will see us return to winning ways very soon. I think it was a pretty silly thread as it states the bleedin obvious as our position in the league shows we more difficult to beat than the ones below us and easier to beat than the ones above us Not surprisingly we are now more difficult to beat than last season when we were lower in the League as we are a much better team as our younger players mature We are probably at the Level we were when Strachan was manager to get to a higher level is going to mean more investment and a lot of hard work but is of course very possible but unlike those days we dont have players apart from Kelvin and Rickie who are reaching the end of there careers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 No mate, the choice is one of the hardest teams to beat in the leagueor not one of the hardest teams to beat in the league... That's funny as your responses talk about tummy tickled/rolling over/get hammered/being embarrassed and all manner of other nonsense. It's you typing this stuff not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 First XI is, the team that we're playing at this moment not so much. It's why we've lost 5 of our last 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintadjg Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 I think a few of you are just being facetious .We are clearly a very hard team to beat,that doesn't mean we are unbeatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 That's funny as your responses talk about tummy tickled/rolling over/get hammered/being embarrassed and all manner of other nonsense. It's you typing this stuff not me. Do you think teams play saints thinking it's an easy win then or that it's going to be a hard fought, tight encounter that will be won by the odd goal? If there is only 1 goal in it then a lucky deflection, penalty, screamer etc in the dying minutes take the victory away. I feel like any one saying we are not hard to beat is arguing just for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Do you think teams play saints thinking it's an easy win then or that it's going to be a hard fought, tight encounter that will be won by the odd goal? If there is only 1 goal in it then a lucky deflection, penalty, screamer etc in the dying minutes take the victory away. I feel like any one saying we are not hard to beat is arguing just for the sake of it. No teams are "easy" to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 31 December, 2013 Author Share Posted 31 December, 2013 No teams are "easy" to beat. Pompey are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Pompey are! Ok fair point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 Do you think teams play saints thinking it's an easy win then or that it's going to be a hard fought, tight encounter that will be won by the odd goal? If there is only 1 goal in it then a lucky deflection, penalty, screamer etc in the dying minutes take the victory away. I feel like any one saying we are not hard to beat is arguing just for the sake of it. Do you think teams play Newcastle thinking it's an easy win? I don't think we are any "harder to beat" than our league position suggests. And I don't want to think our defining characteristic as a team is being hard to beat: that sounds like Chelsea or Stoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 If we get that penalty and a draw at Everton, Villa don't score a screamer at the end of the game etc.. etc... it all looks a bit different but the performances were still the same. The direct end result isn't always a true reflection of where a team is in terms of ability. If we hadn't got that late penalty at WBA, if Suarez was available when we played Liverpool, if Remy had scored instead of blazing over, if Fonte hadnt got that last minute equaliser against Sunderland, if Collins scores with 5 minutes to go instead of smashing it over the bar against West Ham. It would all look a bit different but the performances were still the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unionhotel Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 If we hadn't got that late penalty at WBA, if Suarez was available when we played Liverpool, if Remy had scored instead of blazing over, if Fonte hadnt got that last minute equaliser against Sunderland, if Collins scores with 5 minutes to go instead of smashing it over the bar against West Ham. It would all look a bit different but the performances were still the same. The performances might be the same and we can't change the past but I agree with the op that we are difficult to beat. our results have been disappointing but our performances are still encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 31 December, 2013 Share Posted 31 December, 2013 We were hard to beat until beating hull at home. We lost a lot of our key players and then leaked goals. The last 6/7 weeks have not been good, look at the form table. I expect us to get something tomorrow, have am up and down January, but February will be good and safe by early march. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints boy in Leeds Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 I think a bit of complacency is setting in with us Saints fans. Sure, we've battled fairly well of late considering the injuries we have had, but our current results are still indicative of relegation form. Another couple of defeats and the players 'confidence' will decline - maybe even NC's, who knows? Do we really have greater qualities than the team that went 20 matches without a win in the late 80's? I think that we do, but don't take anything for granted. I, for one, won't be relieved until we have passed the 40 points barrier. Also, please remember that we were 5th or 7th at Christmas in 1973 and then got relegated! I think this team is too good for that, but it must now ignore all the hype about MP, the Academy, the England hopefuls, and just concentrate on grinding out 'ugly' results for a few games. Are we hard to beat? Clearly not. Do we compete? Yes, we do. I agree with you (we won't go down) we are closer to 4th than 18th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 when you say " one of the teams that hard to beat" - does that suggest the line-up that (fairly successfully) started the first ten games ?....in which case the answer maybe YES. on the other hand ...it's painfully clear that there aren't too many other options than using subs. or " bench players " who quite clearly are nowhere near the same standard. We don't have the " strength-in-depth " that some other teams seem to possess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 1 January, 2014 Share Posted 1 January, 2014 Best way for me to answer this is to say I don't go to games now thinking we have NO chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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