VectisSaint Posted 26 March, 2014 Share Posted 26 March, 2014 the same United that are in "Meltdown"? + over the season they have 4 wins against top 10 sides Incorrect. They have 2 wins against the current Top 10 sides, Arsenal (1-0) and Stoke (3-2). The fact that was accurately stated was that they have 1 win against Top 9 (Top 9 is easier to compare because it has been very stable for most of season, only 10th has varied). Against Top 9 sides Man U's record so far is P13 W1 D4 L8 F7 A21 Pts7 Saints record against Top 9 so far is P12 W1 D4 L7 F12 A24 Pts 7 So, our record against Top 9 sides is similar but marginally better (goal difference and less defeats in less games) than Man Utd's. If you want to compare Top 10 then United have 1 point more than us. Hardly makes our record poor as you would like Saints supporters to believe. Only winning 1 game against Top 9 sides when you are 9th in the league is actually 1 more than would be statistically expected, so you could argue that we are punching above our position with respect to wins against top sides, but given that I expect us to finish 8th, 2 wins would be par for the course, and we could achieve that this weekend and still have 3 games left to play to achieve more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 26 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 26 March, 2014 Incorrect. They have 2 wins against the current Top 10 sides, Arsenal (1-0) and Stoke (3-2). The fact that was accurately stated was that they have 1 win against Top 9 (Top 9 is easier to compare because it has been very stable for most of season, only 10th has varied). Against Top 9 sides Man U's record so far is P13 W1 D4 L8 F7 A21 Pts7 Saints record against Top 9 so far is P12 W1 D4 L7 F12 A24 Pts 7 So, our record against Top 9 sides is similar but marginally better (goal difference and less defeats in less games) than Man Utd's. If you want to compare Top 10 then United have 1 point more than us. Hardly makes our record poor as you would like Saints supporters to believe. Only winning 1 game against Top 9 sides when you are 9th in the league is actually 1 more than would be statistically expected, so you could argue that we are punching above our position with respect to wins against top sides, but given that I expect us to finish 8th, 2 wins would be par for the course, and we could achieve that this weekend and still have 3 games left to play to achieve more. Whats the obsession with Man united? Why are you/anyone comparing our results to theres? Man united are in crisis, manager on the brink, breaking all kinds of records (for wrong reasons), everyone questioning what the hell has gone wrong Your holding up the man united stats like its the bench mark and one we should be proud to match Man uniteds record is pathetic, that why sky sports news keep showing them every 30 mins...... Ours are the same (shocking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 26 March, 2014 Share Posted 26 March, 2014 Whats the obsession with Man united? Why are you/anyone comparing our results to theres? Man united are in crisis, manager on the brink, breaking all kinds of records (for wrong reasons), everyone questioning what the hell has gone wrong Your holding up the man united stats like its the bench mark and one we should be proud to match Man uniteds record is pathetic, that why sky sports news keep showing them every 30 mins...... Ours are the same (shocking) Firstly, grammar and punctation. Secondly::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 27 March, 2014 Share Posted 27 March, 2014 Whats the obsession with Man united? Why are you/anyone comparing our results to theres? Man united are in crisis, manager on the brink, breaking all kinds of records (for wrong reasons), everyone questioning what the hell has gone wrong Your holding up the man united stats like its the bench mark and one we should be proud to match Man uniteds record is pathetic, that why sky sports news keep showing them every 30 mins...... Ours are the same (shocking) What obsession? The point is to illustrate that your assertion that one win against top 10 sides is bad or poor is a false assertion and that there are other examples to illustrate this that counter your continuous negativity against Saints. This is what happens when you put forward an argument, people use facts to counter your argument and show that you are wrong. Statistically for a team in 9th, 2 wins against top 10 teams all season would be as expected. We have one win already, and have 4 to go against top 10 teams. If you work on the basis of top 9, then the team in 9th would not expect to win any games against other top 9 teams, therefore to have won one is actually doing better than could be expected statistically. The use of Man Utd as an example however illustrates that this is not necessarily a good measure of success. They are currently 7th, and yet have only won one game against top 9 sides, statistically they should win about 4. So, how many games you win against top 9 or top 10 teams is not necessarily a good indicator of success, but if it is then we are about where we should be given our win ratio. Sorry to **** on your parade. How many games has your team won against top 10 sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 March, 2014 Share Posted 27 March, 2014 What obsession? The point is to illustrate that your assertion that one win against top 10 sides is bad or poor is a false assertion and that there are other examples to illustrate this that counter your continuous negativity against Saints. This is what happens when you put forward an argument, people use facts to counter your argument and show that you are wrong. Statistically for a team in 9th, 2 wins against top 10 teams all season would be as expected. We have one win already, and have 4 to go against top 10 teams. If you work on the basis of top 9, then the team in 9th would not expect to win any games against other top 9 teams, therefore to have won one is actually doing better than could be expected statistically. The use of Man Utd as an example however illustrates that this is not necessarily a good measure of success. They are currently 7th, and yet have only won one game against top 9 sides, statistically they should win about 4. So, how many games you win against top 9 or top 10 teams is not necessarily a good indicator of success, but if it is then we are about where we should be given our win ratio. Sorry to **** on your parade. How many games has your team won against top 10 sides? Quite right. The only true indicator is league position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 28 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 28 March, 2014 Im backing us for victory tomorrow.... Have a very good feeling about the result. With Krul, Remy and Debuchy all ruled out i can only see one winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Today is the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskoolsi Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 The fact that we have only won 1 against a top 10 side is merely an indicator of our strengths and weaknesses. Same as the fact the we have lost more games form winning positions than anyone else. If you want to look for negative spin, look at those. Likewise I'm sure there are stats that put us in a positive light. At the end of the day, the only one that really counts is league position. All the spin in the world can't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 The fact that we have only won 1 against a top 10 side is merely an indicator of our strengths and weaknesses. Same as the fact the we have lost more games form winning positions than anyone else. If you want to look for negative spin, look at those. Likewise I'm sure there are stats that put us in a positive light. At the end of the day, the only one that really counts is league position. All the spin in the world can't change that. Completely agreed. But just to be pedantic, we haven't lost more than anyone else from a winning position. That would be West Ham, who have lost 5 times. In fact this stat of dropping more points than anyone else from a winning position is something of a double-edged sword. We have been winning 19 of our 31 games this season and in the end we have failed to win on 7 occassions. You could legitimately argue if you were so inclined that we must be doing something very right that we can get into that position so often. We just need to learn to hold on to that lead better in future, and its easy to see how to do that, by stopping dropping off when we are one or two up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Its shows we have reached the glass ceiling, without investment this is as good as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Its shows we have reached the glass ceiling, without investment this is as good as it gets. Just wondering Baz; how much investment would it need to bust into the top, say, 5 or 6? I ask, as it's not as if we haven't been bankrolled quite well so far. How much on top of that is a realistic amount to first off get into the minor European places? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Its shows we have reached the glass ceiling, without investment this is as good as it gets. Do give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Just wondering Baz; how much investment would it need to bust into the top, say, 5 or 6? I ask, as it's not as if we haven't been bankrolled quite well so far. How much on top of that is a realistic amount to first off get into the minor European places? I'd say around 100 million, we're that far off still. I have to agree with Barry though. We're only 3 places off but the difference in overall squad strength is still massive. It's very difficult though to anticipate what will happen regarding transfers and spending in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Do give it a rest. Mr Boy am I wrong? If we sell players as well how are we to achieve overtaking and (sorry laughing here at the thought people evenb taking that seriously) surpassing larger sides investing more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 I'd say around 100 million, we're that far off still. I have to agree with Barry though. We're only 3 places off but the difference in overall squad strength is still massive. It's very difficult though to anticipate what will happen regarding transfers and spending in the summer. I was thinking around the same. Of course it's all about how you spend and who you bring through; but Spurs got through their Bale money and then some and haven't really made a dent on the top 4, so simply displacing them would be a huge effort. Man United too, they're in a slump at the moment but they won't get any worse than this, they should be higher as it is. The problem I see is that's it's not just throwing a suitcase of money at it one season, it has to be done season after season after season to really get to the promised land of European places. It's possible without matching the spends of the top clubs of course, but made more unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Mr Boy am I wrong? If we sell players as well how are we to achieve overtaking and (sorry laughing here at the thought people evenb taking that seriously) surpassing larger sides investing more? I didn't say you were wrong. It's a lovely day Barry. Go for a walk. Have a pint or two. Watch/listen to the game and cheer on the Saints. Then go back to being your maudlin, dull self. ie. Give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Just wondering Baz; how much investment would it need to bust into the top, say, 5 or 6? I ask, as it's not as if we haven't been bankrolled quite well so far. How much on top of that is a realistic amount to first off get into the minor European places? If we keep Shaw, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Lovren,and Chambers and spend money on a centre forward, two centre backs and a winger of known quality then we shall progress obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 I didn't say you were wrong. It's a lovely day Barry. Go for a walk. Have a pint or two. Watch/listen to the game and cheer on the Saints. Then go back to being your maudlin, dull self. ie. Give it a rest. I thank you, Barry Sanchez in the 3rd person keeps it real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 (edited) We'd need more than £100m to be reasonably sure of CL and have the squad depth to play the extra games - and even then we couldn't afford the wages. It will be interesting to see how much effect the financial fair play / English player rules have. I think the effect will be cumulative and the current gap will reduce a bit over time. Edited 29 March, 2014 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 I was thinking around the same. Of course it's all about how you spend and who you bring through; but Spurs got through their Bale money and then some and haven't really made a dent on the top 4, so simply displacing them would be a huge effort. Man United too, they're in a slump at the moment but they won't get any worse than this, they should be higher as it is. The problem I see is that's it's not just throwing a suitcase of money at it one season, it has to be done season after season after season to really get to the promised land of European places. It's possible without matching the spends of the top clubs of course, but made more unlikely. Pipe dream, Cortese sold the gullible new modern shiny Saints fan a pipe dream and they loved it and bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Pipe dream, Cortese sold the gullible new modern shiny Saints fan a pipe dream and they loved and bought it. Pipe dreams and glass ceilings. Is St Marys the Pompadou Centre of Hampshire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 I could trawl up some absolute pearlers of overhype and baseless optimism from October time, these "fans" genuinely thought Liverpool had had their day, we could seriously make a run at the Champions League and Cortese was spending wisely and huge. Take a step back and think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Off to game. Enjoy wallowing in your pessimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Pipe dreams and glass ceilings. Is St Marys the Pompadou Centre of Hampshire? No, St Marys is the spiritual home of glass ceiling and pipe dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Off to game. Enjoy wallowing in your pessimism. Realism, reality, the now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintadjg Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 You must be the life and soul at parties Bazza, Buzz Killington's got nothing on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 You must be the life and soul at parties Bazza, Buzz Killington's got nothing on you. I am quite a happy go lucky guy ha ha, maybe not on here but the reason is I get sick to the back teeth of unfounded over-optimism, we are the next big thing, we are going to the Champions League, we are dismissing the Europa League, the Cups, even Danny Ings earlier on in the season. That moronic arrogant unfounded attitude boils me **** to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 So what is our glass ceiling that we will never break through? 9th? Strange reaction that a site which by definition is for people positive and biased towards saints you get annoyed with optimism. The pessimistic crowd have been saying for years we need to be more realistic...and have been proven wrong annually. There are a lot of unknowns about continued investment but there is no harm in players or fans being excited or optimistic. Personally will be surprised if we ever break into top 4, but top 6 isn't pure fantasy (nor is several season of 10th-15th). Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Can we close this one now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 (edited) So what is our glass ceiling that we will never break through? 9th? Strange reaction that a site which by definition is for people positive and biased towards saints you get annoyed with optimism. The pessimistic crowd have been saying for years we need to be more realistic...and have been proven wrong annually. There are a lot of unknowns about continued investment but there is no harm in players or fans being excited or optimistic. Personally will be surprised if we ever break into top 4, but top 6 isn't pure fantasy (nor is several season of 10th-15th). Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Why not realistic optimism? 1-4th will never happen, 5-6th very very unlikely and never consistently, 7-8th highly unlikely regularly so 9th is as good as it gets for us consistently, money is key and larger clubs have an awful lot more of it. Edited 29 March, 2014 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Saint Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Why not realistic optimism? 1-4th will never happen, 5-6th very very unlikely and never consistently, 7-8th highly unlikely regulary so 9th is as good as it gets for us consistently, money is key and larger clubs have an awful lot more of it. *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Why not realistic optimism? 1-4th will never happen, 5-6th very very unlikely and never consistently, 7-8th highly unlikely so 9th is a good as it gets for us consistently, money is key and larger clubs have an awful lot more of it. This. The sheer arrogance that a wish to see us finishing 9th in the Premier league is dismissed as pessimistic is what is so laughable on this forum. We've finished eighth in the prem once in about twenty years. No medium sized club in that time has consistently broken the top 7 for any consistant time in the same twenty years. With the exception of Bolton who, surprise surprise get dismissed and sneered at on here. But they did it. 8th or 9th five seasons in a row would be an astonishing achievement. I doubt we will do it but would love it if we could. 4th, 6th etc is total pie in the sky, we might might do it one season. But really not worth wasting energy on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Saint Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 This. The sheer arrogance that a wish to see us finishing 9th in the Premier league is dismissed as pessimistic is what is so laughable on this forum. We've finished eighth in the prem once in about twenty years. No medium sized club in that time has consistently broken the top 7 for any consistant time in the same twenty years. With the exception of Bolton who, surprise surprise get dismissed and sneered at on here. But they did it. 8th or 9th five seasons in a row would be an astonishing achievement. I doubt we will do it but would love it if we could. 4th, 6th etc is total pie in the sky, we might might do it one season. But really not worth wasting energy on. Just enjoy the win today, you couple of utter mongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Just enjoy the win today, you couple of utter mongs. What a blend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Chomp. Chomp. Chomp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Saint Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Chomp. Chomp. Chomp Aye, I just wish that they had some sort of talent for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 This. The sheer arrogance that a wish to see us finishing 9th in the Premier league is dismissed as pessimistic is what is so laughable on this forum. We've finished eighth in the prem once in about twenty years. No medium sized club in that time has consistently broken the top 7 for any consistant time in the same twenty years. With the exception of Bolton who, surprise surprise get dismissed and sneered at on here. But they did it. 8th or 9th five seasons in a row would be an astonishing achievement. I doubt we will do it but would love it if we could. 4th, 6th etc is total pie in the sky, we might might do it one season. But really not worth wasting energy on. Agree about much....but it makes you wonder why some here (no names mentioned) complain so much if 8-9th is a great achievement? Doesn´t add upp for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Agree about much....but it makes you wonder why some here (no names mentioned) complain so much if 8-9th is a great achievement? Doesn´t add upp for me... It will be an even great achievement if we sell our best players this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 It will be an even great achievement if we sell our best players this season. So we´re allowed to talk about if´s now? Yet you blast so many others when they talk about some if´s during the season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Seeing as though this trolling thread no longer applies can we close this sh ite down now please. Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 So we´re allowed to talk about if´s now? Yet you blast so many others when they talk about some if´s during the season... Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, perceived positive rumours along with the perceived negative ones, ying and yang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, perceived positive rumours along with the perceived negative ones, ying and yang. Didn´t realise my question was that hard, apologies m8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 It will be an even great achievement if we sell our best players this season. Once more in English please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 This. The sheer arrogance that a wish to see us finishing 9th in the Premier league is dismissed as pessimistic is what is so laughable on this forum. We've finished eighth in the prem once in about twenty years. No medium sized club in that time has consistently broken the top 7 for any consistant time in the same twenty years. With the exception of Bolton who, surprise surprise get dismissed and sneered at on here. But they did it. 8th or 9th five seasons in a row would be an astonishing achievement. I doubt we will do it but would love it if we could. 4th, 6th etc is total pie in the sky, we might might do it one season. But really not worth wasting energy on. Do you actually read your crap before posting.. its embarrassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Saint Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Once more in English please. You. ask too. much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 All I need now is to hear that GS shot over 100 at Gleneagles today and my Saturday will be complete:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 (edited) The simple reason to believe we can improve on this season is that our team is young and most of our players have their best days ahead of them. The interest from top clubs suggests that many of them are capable of playing at European level. If we can keep them together then there's no reason we can't play at that level ourselves. Can we keep them together? Nobody has much to go on but the optimist believes we can. The pessimist doesn't. The realist has very few resources at his disposal and would be silly to claim objectivity. Edited 29 March, 2014 by DuncanRG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Chomp. Chomp. Chomp Quite embarrassing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 29 March, 2014 Share Posted 29 March, 2014 It will be an even great achievement if we sell our best players this season. Your not selling Suarez are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 29 March, 2014 Author Share Posted 29 March, 2014 Im backing us for victory tomorrow.... Have a very good feeling about the result. With Krul, Remy and Debuchy all ruled out i can only see one winner boom boom boom let me hear you say wayo Superb round of golf, followed by £360 coupon win good times all round Oh and Jay and Adam consolidating my lead at the top of the FF league Look forward to MOTD now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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