Big club mentality

[JPTCount]

Although we finished in the top 8 we are still being seen as one of the bottom 13. If we were one of the 7 clubs above us how much do you think shaw or lallana (and others) would cost to secure them? Or to put it another way, how much would united have to pay arsenal for shaw?

 

The probable answer is they wouldn't sell unless the player forced it through or we got an offer 40-50m plus, and it would still be down to the player.

 

Obviously this is all speculative but then so are the endless rumours. As with all transfers, comparisons are hard, taking in inflation and the individual nature of footballing talent.

 

And as a footnote, surely the prize money from this year will cover any outstanding transfer fees we owe. Does the '27m debt' we have actually have any bearing on what sort of offer we accept?

[Batman]

clubs the size of saints (without sugar daddies) will always sell players at £25m-£30m

 

everton have, they all have

 

all the talk of £40m+ is only happening on this site. We simply wont get £40m for any of our players

MLT may have had he been playing today

[angelman]

^ true and just another demonstration that football in this country has been ruined. It's no different in other leagues, as the same old teams fill the top spots, year in, year out. I guess the authorities in charge of the respective competitions have to decide whether they want a competition that is genuinely open and interesting (like the Championship and L1 & L2 for that matter) or a competition that doesn't spread things too wide so that the appeal of those clubs can be concentrated and sold around the world. One demonstration of this - Liverpool filling the SCG pre last season. What's that 96-100k? If we played in Sydney, how many do you think would turn up? 5k? 10k?

[Batman]

^ true and just another demonstration that football in this country has been ruined. It's no different in other leagues, as the same old teams fill the top spots, year in, year out. I guess the authorities in charge of the respective competitions have to decide whether they want a competition that is genuinely open and interesting (like the Championship and L1 & L2 for that matter) or a competition that doesn't spread things too wide so that the appeal of those clubs can be concentrated and sold around the world. One demonstration of this - Liverpool filling the SCG pre last season. What's that 96-100k? If we played in Sydney, how many do you think would turn up? 5k? 10k?

ruined?

 

i suspect bristol rovers said the same when we came crashing into league one and bought who we wanted and threw money and everyone and everything

no one cared then about the state of football

[doddisalegend]

^ true and just another demonstration that football in this country has been ruined. It's no different in other leagues, as the same old teams fill the top spots, year in, year out. I guess the authorities in charge of the respective competitions have to decide whether they want a competition that is genuinely open and interesting (like the Championship and L1 & L2 for that matter) or a competition that doesn't spread things too wide so that the appeal of those clubs can be concentrated and sold around the world. One demonstration of this - Liverpool filling the SCG pre last season. What's that 96-100k? If we played in Sydney, how many do you think would turn up? 5k? 10k?

 

I'm sure Bournemouth aren't to happy either as newly relegated, and filthy rich by championship standards, Cardiff just triggered the release clause on their star striker for a paltry 3 million

[angelman]

Yes, I should have quantified that the Championship has now been ruined also by ridiculous parachute payments.

 

Batman - yes I agree with that as well, and I am not excluding Saints from the knock on effects of going in and doing what has happened to us, to them.

[Sour Mash]

This has already been explained. It's completely different as it's not the same teams doing it every season, and each time clubs manage to compete, Saints, Leeds, Sheff Weds, Fulham, whoever the club is that deems itself too big for league 1, whether they spend or not, they don't get out easily and rarely first time. That's good for football and completely different to the top division.

BUt its still the same principle of bigger clubs with more money, dominating over smaller clubs with less money. No-one complained then.

[angelman]

And did we throw money at everyone and everything: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/southampton-fc/transfers/verein_180_2009_default_default_alle_a_default.html

[Batman]

BUt its still the same principle of bigger clubs with more money, dominating over smaller clubs with less money. No-one complained then.

 

I bet bristol rovers thought if they could have kept lambert, added 1 or 2 they could have got to the championship

[Batman]

And did we throw money at everyone and everything: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/southampton-fc/transfers/verein_180_2009_default_default_alle_a_default.html

 

well, lambert cost more than the next 3 biggest signings combined that season. (1 of which was dean hammond to saints)

[SO16_Saint]

Its the way of the world.

 

There is always someone bigger, better and richer than you who will want your best talent.

 

The same can be said about the players Saints have bought from in the past... im sure their fans are/were ****ed of that we swooped in and bought their best player for a pittance of what the *think* he's worth

[shurlock]

I bet bristol rovers thought if they could have kept lambert, added 1 or 2 they could have got to the championship

 

The difference, though the subtlety will elude you, is that the Citys and Chelseas of this world are at the absolute top of the food chain, so don't need to be worried about being gazumped or in turn pillaged by other clubs.

 

Let's not forget that while Lambert came to us, he could have easily gone elsewhere and we would have been unable to do jacks**t about it (Huddersfield turned him down and Champo clubs ignored him). Yes big clubs will dominate small clubs, but its still quite a different dynamic when you're thrashing about in the middle of the pack.

[Batman]

The difference, though the subtlety will elude you, is that the Citys and Chelseas of this world are at the absolute top of the food chain, so don't need to be worried about being gazumped or in turn pillaged by other clubs.

 

Let's not forget that while Lambert came to us, he could have easily gone elsewhere and we would have been unable to do jacks**t about it (Huddersfield turned him down and Champo clubs ignored him). Yes big clubs will dominate small clubs, but its still quite a different dynamic when you're thrashing about in the middle of the pack.

 

but we were top of the pack, in Bristol Rovers world.

Look at them now

[Whitey Grandad]

Big fleas have little fleas,

Upon their backs to bite 'em,

And little fleas have lesser fleas,

and so, ad infinitum.

[stevy777_x]

Starting to seriously regret Cortese. Yes he was not a nice man, the working atmosphere for non playing staff was not very pleasing, the ticket fee was horrible for fans but at least he was there to défend our club to the bone against media and the big boys which was really refreshing knowing you had somebody to count on. At the end of the day also he got results : 2 promotions one JPT and a club stable in the premier league. Players and manager also knew where they stood regarding the direction the club was taking which allowed everyone to be focused on the job in hand.

 

Now, apparently or so it was said in January when Cortese left, we got our club back. Open communication to fans, a better working atmosphere which Will bring some smile back on people's faces.

Yet all we are left with is media putting out stories of board naitivity, big boys bullying us. Players and manager unsure of future objectives and fans not knowing what the hell is going on. But hey we got our club back ;-).

I don't care if KL is a Nice lady. The board Will be judged on results on the pitch and the direction this is taking doesn't bode well at all.

 

Give me back Cortese any day of the week.

[shurlock]

but we were top of the pack, in Bristol Rovers world.

Look at them now

 

Relative to Rovers yes but not in the grand scheme of things - a lower-mid championship side could have come in for Lambert and would have probably been a more attractive option at that point in time. That's a risk that the top sides don't need to worry about. Making such signings also requires much more conviction than just opening the checkbook and hoovering up the best talent: neither Lambert nor Jrod were bankers; otherwise they would have been snapped up by others. Obviously it means jack-s**t to Rovers and Burnley; but these are important differences, making comparisons with the Citys and Chelseas of this world rather lazy.

[Batman]

Relative to Rovers yes but not in the grand scheme of things - a lower-mid championship side could have come in for Lambert and would have probably been a more attractive option at that point in time. That's a risk that the top sides don't need to worry about. Making such signings also requires much more conviction than just opening the checkbook and hoovering up the best talent: neither Lambert nor Jrod were bankers; otherwise they would have been snapped up by others. Obviously it means jack-s**t to Rovers and Burnley; but these are important differences, making comparisons with the Citys and Chelseas of this world rather lazy.

if you want to justify it that way, great

just highlights that what is happening to us, we did that very thing to others, and no one (here) gave two shyts

[shurlock]

if you want to justify it that way, great

just highlights that what is happening to us, we did that very thing to others, and no one (here) gave two shyts

 

Depends - loathe them as I do, I have more respect for Spurs who saw something in a rather raw and unfinished Bale than teams coming in and taking players like Lallana and Shaw who are much closer to being the finished article.

[Crab Lungs]

Starting to seriously regret Cortese. Yes he was not a nice man, the working atmosphere for non playing staff was not very pleasing, the ticket fee was horrible for fans but at least he was there to défend our club to the bone against media and the big boys which was really refreshing knowing you had somebody to count on. At the end of the day also he got results : 2 promotions one JPT and a club stable in the premier league. Players and manager also knew where they stood regarding the direction the club was taking which allowed everyone to be focused on the job in hand.

 

Now, apparently or so it was said in January when Cortese left, we got our club back. Open communication to fans, a better working atmosphere which Will bring some smile back on people's faces.

Yet all we are left with is media putting out stories of board naitivity, big boys bullying us. Players and manager unsure of future objectives and fans not knowing what the hell is going on. But hey we got our club back ;-).

I don't care if KL is a Nice lady. The board Will be judged on results on the pitch and the direction this is taking doesn't bode well at all.

 

Give me back Cortese any day of the week.

 

You are absolutely spot on, sadly, and I did allude to this back in Jan when he left. We've just lost our biggest asset. I didn't agree with how he operated and handled things sometimes but his record speaks for itself. Still, the new board did write two nice letters - that's gotta count for something, right? #easilyduped #makingupthenumbersagain #itsnothappening

[Batman]

You are absolutely spot on, sadly, and I did allude to this back in Jan when he left. We've just lost our biggest asset. I didn't agree with how he operated and handled things sometimes but his record speaks for itself. Still, the new board did write two nice letters - that's gotta count for something, right? #easilyduped #makingupthenumbersagain #itsnothappening

 

we got our club back - YAY

[Sour Mash]

Relative to Rovers yes but not in the grand scheme of things - a lower-mid championship side could have come in for Lambert and would have probably been a more attractive option at that point in time.

How do you think we signed Fonte?

[Sour Mash]

I don't care if KL is a Nice lady. The board Will be judged on results on the pitch and the direction this is taking doesn't bode well at all.

So how exactly are you going to jude KL if the worst happens and we do sell a couple of key players and MP decides to leave?

[shurlock]

How do you think we signed Fonte?

 

Any other championship side could have come in for a player who had two good seasons in the league -the price was high but not prohibitively so. By Fonte's own admission, it was a massive gamble joining us. Fonte and to a lesser extent Cork are arguably two signings that can be credited to Cortese's ability to sell a vision, at least before we got to the prem.

[DuncanRG]

The only 'state of football' issue that's relevant here is player power. Clubs should be able to hold players to their contracts. I hope we exercise the power which we ultimately hold this summer.

[CB Fry]

This has already been explained. It's completely different as it's not the same teams doing it every season, and each time clubs manage to compete, Saints, Leeds, Sheff Weds, Fulham, whoever the club is that deems itself too big for league 1, whether they spend or not, they don't get out easily and rarely first time. That's good for football and completely different to the top division.

 

It's only different clubs because of, well, promotion and relegation.

 

The principle is exactly the same.

 

We bankrolled our way out of two divisions, we snatch Jay Rod and Clyne and now other clubs could be doing the same to us.

[Fan The Flames]

if you want to justify it that way, great

just highlights that what is happening to us, we did that very thing to others, and no one (here) gave two shyts

 

Nor did you. I cant remember you saying how unfair it was that we have taken BR's best player.

 

I know this is one of your favourite stick to beat other Saints fans with, god knows you have mentioned it thousands of times. But I think you pulled it out too early in this instance. Transfers have been around since the beginning of football, the better players migrate to the better clubs and the selling club gets compenstated for it and in a lot of instances the selling club is grateful for the money. No one is complaining about that. What was complained about earlier in the thread is that the top of English football is slowly becoming a closed shop; it is becoming increasingly more difficult to get in to the top berths which are occupied by the same clubs year in year out. The same clubs then get the big money which maintains their dominance etc etc.

 

So where does a club like Southampton go. You can't try and organically break in because you will lose your best players to the bigger clubs, so it takes a lot of cash ie Man City and Chelsea. Randy Learner and Mike Ashley have realised its a busted flush and are trying to walk away. Even the Leicester chairman said he will have to spend 180m to get anywhere near it.

[Batman]

Nor did you. I cant remember you saying how unfair it was that we have taken BR's best player.

 

I know this is one of your favourite stick to beat other Saints fans with, god knows you have mentioned it thousands of times. But I think you pulled it out too early in this instance. Transfers have been around since the beginning of football, the better players migrate to the better clubs and the selling club gets compenstated for it and in a lot of instances the selling club is grateful for the money. No one is complaining about that. What was complained about earlier in the thread is that the top of English football is slowly becoming a closed shop; it is becoming increasingly more difficult to get in to the top berths which are occupied by the same clubs year in year out. The same clubs then get the big money which maintains their dominance etc etc.

 

So where does a club like Southampton go. You can't try and organically break in because you will lose your best players to the bigger clubs, so it takes a lot of cash ie Man City and Chelsea. Randy Learner and Mike Ashley have realised its a busted flush and are trying to walk away. Even the Leicester chairman said he will have to spend 180m to get anywhere near it.

 

I never said it was unfair

Nor am I complaining about gigantic clubs in Liverpool and united paying huge money for our players. It's how it goes

[Fan The Flames]

I never said it was unfair

Nor am I complaining about gigantic clubs in Liverpool and united paying huge money for our players. It's how it goes

 

Nor was anyone else on here before you jumped it with your Bistol rovers bore.

[shurlock]

It's only different clubs because of, well, promotion and relegation.

 

The principle is exactly the same.

 

We bankrolled our way out of two divisions, we snatch Jay Rod and Clyne and now other clubs could be doing the same to us.

 

How did we bankroll our out way of the championship?

 

We barely touched the money from the sale of AoC, so were in surplus for much of the year. Luminaries such as McKail-Smith and Sharp (at the first attempt) turned us down; even Cork hesitated on joining us because he was unsure we offered the best chance of promotion. Most predictions had us finishing midtable (telegraph =13th as one example) while the likes of Leicester, Wham and to a lesser extent Forest and Ipswuch were betting the house on promotion. I could go on.

 

Small Fry, a word of advice: stick to your intimate knowledge of Hummel kits where you don't come across as such a clown.

[Batman]

How did we bankroll our out way of the championship?

 

We barely touched the money from the sale of AoC, so were in surplus for much of the year. Luminaries such as McKail-Smith and Sharp (at the first attempt) turned us down; even Cork hesitated on joining us because he was unsure we offered the best chance of promotion. Most predictions had us finishing midtable (telegraph =13th as one example) while the likes of Leicester, Wham and to a lesser extent Forest and Ipswuch were betting the house on promotion. I could go on.

 

Small Fry, a word of advice: stick to your intimate knowledge of Hummel kits where you don't come across as such a clown.

 

How did we bank roll our way to the championship

 

Sweet Jesus

[shurlock]

How did we bank roll out way to the championship

 

Sweet Jesus

 

Are you thick - we bankrolled our way out of L1; but did very little strengthening once in the NPC - indeed with the loss of AoC, there's a case that we were slightly weaker. We overachieved in the NPC. Most pundits didn't give a chance of promotion or even the playoffs that season. FACT.

 

Otherwise fill your boots and indulge in moronic revisionism.

[angelman]

Bankrolling our way out of L1? Really? Looking at transfer activities before the 2009/10 season and after is interesting. Transfer spend....

 

2007/8 = (£24.5m)

2008/9 = (£1.8m)

2009/10 = (£2m)

2010/11 = £2.6m

2011/12 = (£7.7m)

2012/13 = £36.5m

2013/14 = £33m

 

Can't understand how anyone can consider that buying our way out of L1, nor buying our way out of nPC.

[Graffito]

"To go to a club like Southampton, and I'm not being disrespectful to Southampton, there's no expectation." So says Neil Warnock (in telling us Tottenham would be making a mistake in taking Pochettino). To be honest my expecations of Colin W***** are not high, and I'm not being disrespectful to Colin.

[speed demon]

Starting to seriously regret Cortese. Yes he was not a nice man, the working atmosphere for non playing staff was not very pleasing, the ticket fee was horrible for fans but at least he was there to défend our club to the bone against media and the big boys which was really refreshing knowing you had somebody to count on. At the end of the day also he got results : 2 promotions one JPT and a club stable in the premier league. Players and manager also knew where they stood regarding the direction the club was taking which allowed everyone to be focused on the job in hand.

 

Now, apparently or so it was said in January when Cortese left, we got our club back. Open communication to fans, a better working atmosphere which Will bring some smile back on people's faces.

Yet all we are left with is media putting out stories of board naitivity, big boys bullying us. Players and manager unsure of future objectives and fans not knowing what the hell is going on. But hey we got our club back ;-).

I don't care if KL is a Nice lady. The board Will be judged on results on the pitch and the direction this is taking doesn't bode well at all.

 

Give me back Cortese any day of the week.

 

:lol:

 

Yeah right, I never shared this love in with RK/KL in the first place.

 

Come on NC get some backers and make her sell ffs.

[Sour Mash]

Any other championship side could have come in for a player who had two good seasons in the league -the price was high but not prohibitively so. By Fonte's own admission, it was a massive gamble joining us. Fonte and to a lesser extent Cork are arguably two signings that can be credited to Cortese's ability to sell a vision, at least before we got to the prem.

So you think we gained an advantage over our competitors in League One by having Fonte due to NC selling him an ambition and nothing to do with the fact that we could afford greater wages than most of those around us.

[DuncanRG]

Bankrolling our way out of L1? Really? Looking at transfer activities before the 2009/10 season and after is interesting. Transfer spend....

 

2007/8 = (£24.5m)

2008/9 = (£1.8m)

2009/10 = (£2m)

2010/11 = £2.6m

2011/12 = (£7.7m)

2012/13 = £36.5m

2013/14 = £33m

 

Can't understand how anyone can consider that buying our way out of L1, nor buying our way out of nPC.

 

Our budget in League One was absolutely enormous for the division and far outstripped most if not all of our competitors. We effectively built a Championship team in L1 and that same team got us promoted in 2011/12 without many additions.

[angelman]

Our budget in League One was absolutely enormous for the division and far outstripped most if not all of our competitors. We effectively built a Championship team in L1 and that same team got us promoted in 2011/12 without many additions.

 

From being relegated from PL we sold something like £26m more than we bought. Then in L1, we bought £600k more than we sold. Is that really unreasonable? And building a Champ side in L1, it is worth noting that in nPc, we sold £7.7m more than we bought. So I can't agree with you. Yes, the funds were there and they were spent, but if you look at what we sold/bought overall, then it paints a different picture.

[beancounter saint]

From being relegated from PL we sold something like £26m more than we bought. Then in L1, we bought £600k more than we sold. Is that really unreasonable? And building a Champ side in L1, it is worth noting that in nPc, we sold £7.7m more than we bought. So I can't agree with you. Yes, the funds were there and they were spent, but if you look at what we sold/bought overall, then it paints a different picture.

 

Transfer spend is one thing but I suspect the wages budget was several times higher than most of the competition.

[shurlock]

So you think we gained an advantage over our competitors in League One by having Fonte due to NC selling him an ambition and nothing to do with the fact that we could afford greater wages than most of those around us.

 

Around us? Fonte could have quite easily gone to another championship side offering similar, if not higher wages. By Fonte's own admission, the vision he was sold played a role. We matched Palace's wages (who we were struggling to pay players on time); but we effectively asked him to put his career on hold for a season and a half with no guarantees.

[Sour Mash]

Around us? Fonte could have quite easily gone to another championship side offering similar, if not higher wages. By Fonte's own admission, the vision he was sold played a role. We matched Palace's wages (who we were struggling to pay players on time); but we effectively asked him to put his career on hold for a season and a half with no guarantees.

Yeah, around us. Hold on, you're saying that Fonte said he was attracted by ambition and not money, I bet a player has never thought of that line before

[shurlock]

Yeah, around us. Hold on, you're saying that Fonte said he was attracted by ambition and not money, I bet a player has never thought of that line before

 

You're missing the point. For players like Fonte, we were not just competing just against other L1 sides but more realistically many sides above us in the championship. Yeh ambition matters -players don't drop down a division, putting their careers, reputations and future earning power at risk without it.

[Bobbyboy]

I don't want to get into the Fonte/vision debate but in terms of 'bankrolling' in L1 or Champ, we did something that sides with money do tend to do. What we did in L1 was to say "who is the best striker in the division? whoever it is, buy him." It was Rickie. Sure we got lucky in that he's much better than probably anyone realized at the time and he's done well with our coaches, managers etc BUT the point is, it's a known way for clubs to 'buy' success... Blackburn did it when they won the Prem - both in the Perm itself (Alan Shearer) but also when they were getting promoted to the Prem: David Speedie (seriously) and Duncan Shearer. As soon as they got to the Prem they dumped them. We did the same with Billy Sharp at that level. (Of course we then didn't buy Suarez and Van Persie, so my argument and parallels totally fall apart here).

Just saying it's a known, established way to get up the divisions when you have a little money and we're not the first team to do it, and to some extent you COULD call it bankrolling.

[Sour Mash]

You're missing the point. For players like Fonte, we were not just competing just against other L1 sides but more realistically many sides above us in the championship. Yeh ambition matters -players don't drop down a division, putting their careers, reputations and future earning power at risk without it.

You're missing the point - we were able to do all that because we had more money than others.

[shurlock]

I don't want to get into the Fonte/vision debate but in terms of 'bankrolling' in L1 or Champ, we did something that sides with money do tend to do. What we did in L1 was to say "who is the best striker in the division? whoever it is, buy him." It was Rickie. Sure we got lucky in that he's much better than probably anyone realized at the time and he's done well with our coaches, managers etc BUT the point is, it's a known way for clubs to 'buy' success... Blackburn did it when they won the Prem - both in the Perm itself (Alan Shearer) but also when they were getting promoted to the Prem: David Speedie (seriously) and Duncan Shearer. As soon as they got to the Prem they dumped them. We did the same with Billy Sharp at that level. (Of course we then didn't buy Suarez and Van Persie, so my argument and parallels totally fall apart here).

Just saying it's a known, established way to get up the divisions when you have a little money and we're not the first team to do it, and to some extent you COULD call it bankrolling.

 

We paid to get out of L1 and assembled a side to compete in the championship. But we overachieved in the championship as is almost universally agreed, especially when you look at the money West Ham, Leicester City, Ipswich, Forest etc spent. Its easy in hindsight to paint our rise as rationally guaranteed and bankrolled. But that's b******ks. Look there were even doubts whether Rickie could cut it in the NPC -something which he admitted to sharing.

[PokingFun]

Starting to seriously regret Cortese. Yes he was not a nice man, the working atmosphere for non playing staff was not very pleasing, the ticket fee was horrible for fans but at least he was there to défend our club to the bone against media and the big boys which was really refreshing knowing you had somebody to count on. At the end of the day also he got results : 2 promotions one JPT and a club stable in the premier league. Players and manager also knew where they stood regarding the direction the club was taking which allowed everyone to be focused on the job in hand.

 

Now, apparently or so it was said in January when Cortese left, we got our club back. Open communication to fans, a better working atmosphere which Will bring some smile back on people's faces.

Yet all we are left with is media putting out stories of board naitivity, big boys bullying us. Players and manager unsure of future objectives and fans not knowing what the hell is going on. But hey we got our club back ;-).

I don't care if KL is a Nice lady. The board Will be judged on results on the pitch and the direction this is taking doesn't bode well at all.

 

Give me back Cortese any day of the week.

 

I really cannot agree with the sentiments above at all other than I will say Cortese has overseen a period of relative success for us. Do you really believe that as a result of NC remaining in charge that the media and other clubs would sit back and say, 'you know what, that Cortese is one nasty **** so I will leave Saints' players alone?' Of course not. What has happened is that we have seen our players improve so much under MP that the top clubs are now looking at them and thinking they are worth signing.

 

At the end of the season before this, Lallana was nowhere near showing the form he is now and as a consequence was not attracting attention from clubs bigger than us. Luke Shaw was still very raw and inexperienced and although it could be seen he had serious talent, he was probably not seen as being ready to step up as a top 4 full back. He is now so therefore is a wanted man, particularly given some big clubs have a weakness in his position. J-Rod had struggled a little bit to find his feet and wasn't even on the radar of other clubs. Morgan might have been subject of some interest but nothing concrete it seems that mind blowing offers would be made and so on.

 

Now it is different because we have players who top teams believe can hit the ground running and improve them immediately which was not the case when NC was in charge. In fact, the only time a big team came with an offer that tested NC seriously + the player wanted the move was for Oxo. As it happened, we sold him so where was the famous NC steel then?

 

For me, all this stuff about CL ambition was a big red herring. The players were not here to fulfil that ambition. They were here because we wanted them and could offer better football, money etc at the time than someone else was prepared to offer. That has now changed because of some relative premier league success which inevitably attracts other clubs. As far as the media goes, NC did not dictate to the media or protect us from them and agents, the simple facts were that the media were less interested in us last year than now because the big clubs that make news were less interested in us than now. It is all a simple matter of timing.

 

If we are to be run as a sustainable club then sadly we will not be able to compete with the big clubs for players. That means when we are successful, players and managers will leave. It is nothing to do with who is at the helm. All we can ask is that we try as best we can to keep our best players and improve the team within the confines of our relative financial position. If a player wants to go, or the manager for that matter, all we can ask is that the board achieve the highest possible price opposition teams will pay and then reinvest that money in the best possible way.

[doddisalegend]

I really cannot agree with the sentiments above at all other than I will say Cortese has overseen a period of relative success for us. Do you really believe that as a result of NC remaining in charge that the media and other clubs would sit back and say, 'you know what, that Cortese is one nasty **** so I will leave Saints' players alone?' Of course not. What has happened is that we have seen our players improve so much under MP that the top clubs are now looking at them and thinking they are worth signing.

 

At the end of the season before this, Lallana was nowhere near showing the form he is now and as a consequence was not attracting attention from clubs bigger than us. Luke Shaw was still very raw and inexperienced and although it could be seen he had serious talent, he was probably not seen as being ready to step up as a top 4 full back. He is now so therefore is a wanted man, particularly given some big clubs have a weakness in his position. J-Rod had struggled a little bit to find his feet and wasn't even on the radar of other clubs. Morgan might have been subject of some interest but nothing concrete it seems that mind blowing offers would be made and so on.

 

Now it is different because we have players who top teams believe can hit the ground running and improve them immediately which was not the case when NC was in charge. In fact, the only time a big team came with an offer that tested NC seriously + the player wanted the move was for Oxo. As it happened, we sold him so where was the famous NC steel then?

 

For me, all this stuff about CL ambition was a big red herring. The players were not here to fulfil that ambition. They were here because we wanted them and could offer better football, money etc at the time than someone else was prepared to offer. That has now changed because of some relative premier league success which inevitably attracts other clubs. As far as the media goes, NC did not dictate to the media or protect us from them and agents, the simple facts were that the media were less interested in us last year than now because the big clubs that make news were less interested in us than now. It is all a simple matter of timing.

 

If we are to be run as a sustainable club then sadly we will not be able to compete with the big clubs for players. That means when we are successful, players and managers will leave. It is nothing to do with who is at the helm. All we can ask is that we try as best we can to keep our best players and improve the team within the confines of our relative financial position. If a player wants to go, or the manager for that matter, all we can ask is that the board achieve the highest possible price opposition teams will pay and then reinvest that money in the best possible way.

 

That sir is a great post...spot on

[CB Fry]

Anyone who doesn't think we paid big to climb out of those two leagues needs to have a look at Burnley.

 

The net spend thing is bo lloc ks because many other clubs can't afford to spend all their transfer income on new players like we could.

 

Because of the bankrolling bit.

[JPTCount]

And i was thinking I might get an answer, instead this has gone completley off track...

[Professor]

And i was thinking I might get an answer, instead this has gone completley off track...

Although we were 8th, it was by a big margin, 8 points below the 7th club. We were 30 points below the champions but only 26 points above the bottom club, 23 points below the champions' league places and 23 points above the relegation zone. That looks like classic mid-table performance which the 8th place tends to mask. Even with three players selected for England we were still closer in points to Stoke and Crystal Palace than we were to Tottenham and Everton, which makes comparison with Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal something of a fantasy. You could say that the big club mentality is shown by Man United who although finishing above us sacked their manager for poor performance, whilst ours is wanted by a 'big club'. That looks like Man U being a big club that has under-performed and Southampton as a little club that has over-performed and is regarded as ripe for picking.

Whether our Board is trying to adopt a bigger club mentality or not, will be clearer when we know the outcome of the bids for our manager and players.

Edited 17 May, 2014 by Professor

[CB Fry]

Although we were 8th, it was by a big margin, 8 points below the 7th club. We were 30 points below the champions but only 26 points above the bottom club, 23 points below the champions' league places and 23 points above the relegation zone. That looks like classic mid-table performance which the 8th place tends to mask. Even with the players selected for England we were still closer in points to Stoke and Crystal Palace than we were to Tottenham and Everton, which makes comparison with Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal something of a fantasy. You could say that the big club mentality is shown by Man United who although finishing above us sacked their manager for poor performance, whilst ours is wanted by a 'big club'. That looks like Man U being a big club that has under-performed and Southampton as a little club that has over-performed.

Whether our Board is trying to adopt a bigger club mentality or not, will be clearer when we know the outcome of the bids for our manager and players.

 

In fairness it was a pretty strong 8th, streets ahead of WBA last year for example.

 

But your point stands. Eighth is eighth.

Edited 17 May, 2014 by CB Fry