Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Not related to the Ched Evans case but what happens when two very drunk people have sex? Is the guy guilty of rape or she guilty of indecent assault? What happens if they both stagger off afterwards and get picked up by sober people who have sex with them. Who is guilty then? We kind of covered this earlier, but I believe it is based on whoever does the, err, penetrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 We kind of covered this earlier, but I believe it is based on whoever does the, err, penetrating. After a very heavy night I woke up once with a platonic female friend who had crashed at mine giving me a bj. I guess I would have been guilty then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 After a very heavy night I woke up once with a platonic female friend who had crashed at mine giving me a bj. I guess I would have been guilty then. She wouldnt be guilty of rape...sexual assault maybe. There is also the reasonable man test so as you were asleep there was obviously no intent on your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 She wouldnt be guilty of rape...sexual assault maybe. There is also the reasonable man test so as you were asleep there was obviously no intent on your side. Also depends on what she looks like. If Tim woke up to find a real hottie giving him a bj , he'd call that lucky. If she had been beaten by the ugly stick he'd call it something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Also depends on what she looks like. If Tim woke up to find a real hottie giving him a bj , he'd call that lucky. If she had been beaten by the ugly stick he'd call it something else. I pretended to still be asleep and rolled over. Draw your own conclusions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I pretended to still be asleep and rolled over. Draw your own conclusions Oh no, cockgoblin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Send pics of the sex thief plse Tim. Also, what happened in the end with the bird at the game? After you have her the flowers, did you get a number or something number? If you didn't use the boveril voucher, can I have it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I pretended to still be asleep and rolled over. Draw your own conclusions presenting the anus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 If you didn't use the boveril voucher, can I have it? I knew you were a big Bovril fan. "I was walking the dogs and to my surprise I was in the middle of the biggest cruising ground in London". Ha! http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bovril%20Basher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 presenting the anus It was bunk beds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I knew you were a big Bovril fan. "I was walking the dogs and to my surprise I was in the middle of the biggest cruising ground in London". Ha! http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bovril%20Basher Did you ejaculate? Aggravating factor apparently (I would have thought the opposite as at least you're getting something out of it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 January, 2015 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2015 http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9410182/the-utterly-ludicrous-and-petty-campaign-against-ched-evans/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 One for the Rod Liddle haters amongst us.... http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9410182/the-utterly-ludicrous-and-petty-campaign-against-ched-evans/ http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/9410182/the-utterly-ludicrous-and-petty-campaign-against-ched-evans/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Funny, I was sure you said we should stop this conversation? Of course it's not the same. What I would like to know is where does sexual assault become serious sexual assault? And I assume that if a footballer 'does' a normal sexual assault, that's ok, judging by what's above? Ask the people who decided rape and touching her fanny are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Ask the people who decided rape and touching her fanny are not the same. Eh? Why don't you just answer the question? You said that those guilty of serious sexual assault should not be allowed, so I'm wondering what serious sexual assault is? You seem to be deflecting questions, why is that? Not got the courage to stick by your convictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 He's been found guilty by a court of law, sure sometimes juries get it wrong but you can't just pick bits of evidence you read in the media and form any sort of conclusions. If it is overturned on appeal fair enough but until then we can assume he is guilty. I've been thinking bout ur post aintforever. I'm worried that if I follow ur principals, I have to assume that McDonald bro is innocent, and that the poor bird involved is guilty of making a false accusation of rape against him. I have decided to think that actual guilt & innocence is abstract to law, and the only thing we can be sure of is conviction or non-conviction. This will help me sleep at night. Ched Evans is neither guilty nor innocent, he is convicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Accused(/convicted) Rapist = Innocent until proven guilty, when found guilty presumed still innocent. Meanwhile, accuser(/victim) = Assumed guilty of lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 tbf I assumed Ched Evans was guilty moment i heard of the accusation, I reckon most people did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I've been thinking bout ur post aintforever. I'm worried that if I follow ur principals, I have to assume that McDonald bro is innocent, and that the poor bird involved is guilty of making a false accusation of rape against him. I have decided to think that actual guilt & innocence is abstract to law, and the only thing we can be sure of is conviction or non-conviction. This will help me sleep at night. Ched Evans is neither guilty nor innocent, he is convicted. I dont think she did make rape accusations though Bearsy. All along she has said she had no recollection of what happened. The police found out who took her to the hotel and they both admitted having sex with her. The rape stuff stemmed from the fact that she says she didnt know what went on that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Yeah I'm getting confused bout that. Didn't she accuse them of drugging her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Funny, I was sure you said we should stop this conversation? Of course it's not the same. What I would like to know is where does sexual assault become serious sexual assault? And I assume that if a footballer 'does' a normal sexual assault, that's ok, judging by what's above? Serious sexual assualt is when there is penetratio involved. Touching is not serious but can see seen as such if children are involved. There are grey areas depending on circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Not related to the Ched Evans case but what happens when two very drunk people have sex? Is the guy guilty of rape or she guilty of indecent assault? What happens if they both stagger off afterwards and get picked up by sober people who have sex with them. Who is guilty then? If they both stagger off then the sober people are in Ched Evans territory. If two drunk people have sex (might not be so easy for the guy) then I guess it depends on what they feel about it hen they sober up. If either one didnt want it to happen but was too drunk to prevent it then rape occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Yeah I'm getting confused bout that. Didn't she accuse them of drugging her? She said she thought her drink might have been spiked but I dont think she was drining with these two so it would have had to happen earlier in the evening, presumably by someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 If they both stagger off then the sober people are in Ched Evans territory. If two drunk people have sex (might not be so easy for the guy) then I guess it depends on what they feel about it hen they sober up. If either one didnt want it to happen but was too drunk to prevent it then rape occurred. I'm not too sure about that. The reason that Evans was found guilty is because the jury decided that he was compus mentus (sic) enough to have worked our that the woman wasn't compus mentus (sic) enough to give consent. They wouldn't have been able to have come to that conclusion if he'd been equally as drunk as her, would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Eh? Why don't you just answer the question? You said that those guilty of serious sexual assault should not be allowed, so I'm wondering what serious sexual assault is? You seem to be deflecting questions, why is that? Not got the courage to stick by your convictions? I'm not here to fuel your what-about-ery. Those convicted of crimes of sexual violence including rape and serious sexual assault should not be permitted to play professional league football, with the FA, PFA and the Leagues working together to devise the guidelines they sign up to, with inputs from people who understand the classification of the crimes involved. I think that is perfectly possible like all guidelines of this type which humanity have managed to draw up on lots of subjects for a good while now. I think it is perfectly possible. You don't. Fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Just saw in a newspaper that one of the Oldham directors had a rape threat posted against his daughter if Evans had been signed. On what effin planet do these people live on? I dont want Evans playing for your club because he is a rapist therefore I shall rape your daughter if you sign him??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I'm not here to fuel your what-about-ery. Those convicted of crimes of sexual violence including rape and serious sexual assault should not be permitted to play professional league football, with the FA, PFA and the Leagues working together to devise the guidelines they sign up to, with inputs from people who understand the classification of the crimes involved. I think that is perfectly possible like all guidelines of this type which humanity have managed to draw up on lots of subjects for a good while now. I think it is perfectly possible. You don't. Fine. That's fine, you can't back up what you said, and that's cool, just wish you'd have said that a couple of pages ago, otherwise we could have saved all this bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Just saw in a newspaper that one of the Oldham directors had a rape threat posted against his daughter if Evans had been signed. On what effin planet do these people live on? I dont want Evans playing for your club because he is a rapist therefore I shall rape your daughter if you sign him??? Eye for an eye innit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I'm not here to fuel your what-about-ery. Those convicted of crimes of sexual violence including rape and serious sexual assault should not be permitted to play professional league football, with the FA, PFA and the Leagues working together to devise the guidelines they sign up to, with inputs from people who understand the classification of the crimes involved. I think that is perfectly possible like all guidelines of this type which humanity have managed to draw up on lots of subjects for a good while now. I think it is perfectly possible. You don't. Fine. Perhaps professional sportsmen/women should sign up to a code of conduct when they sign a contract that says that if they commit rape, serious sexual assault, causing death by drink driving etc and they forfiet the right to continue as a professional sports person? That way the debate about them being role models or not is moot - we accept that as professionals they are role models and need to behave in a certain manner in order to continue to enjoy their status. On a separate note I see Arry has his finger on the nations pulse. What if the local guy filling shelves is a rapist? Not quite the same Arry is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 One of the saddest things about this case is that Ched Evans was convicted of rape and yet served only 2 and a half years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Eye for an eye innit... Or a sh@g for a sh@g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Yeah I'm getting confused bout that. Didn't she accuse them of drugging her? True story, think I got rohypnoled once. It was a NYE party at Home House (posho members club in London) and all Champagne was included. We were sharing a table but not with with these two pretty fit girls (Russian looking) who were being chatted up by these seedy looking rich Arab types. Anyway, all the glasses where in the middle of the table, the beer was flowing like wine and I reckon me and my mate accidentally drunk some of their spiked champagne. His Mrs looked after him but I just wandered off into the night. I have no recollection of the night apart from a few moments. I may or may not have been raped by a rich Arab man/Dubai Phil. However, I think I wasn't really their type. They must have been pissed off when they saw me accidentally taking their roofie champagne and the Russian made in Chelsea hottie types drinking the normal stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 One of the saddest things about this case is that Ched Evans was convicted of rape and yet served only 2 and a half years. Couldnt agree more. On th one hand we say rape is a serious crime and then he gets a relatively short sentence. I know that 5 years isnt short but he was never go to do the full stretch. Perhaps there should be a minimum sentence for rape and a minimum time served? Mind you, if he doesnt get to play professional football again you could argue that he is being punished twice and maybe their is some kind of justice in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 True story, think I got rohypnoled once. It was a NYE party at Home House (posho members club in London) and all Champagne was included. We were sharing a table but not with with these two pretty fit girls (Russian looking) who were being chatted up by these seedy looking rich Arab types. Anyway, all the glasses where in the middle of the table, the beer was flowing like wine and I reckon me and my mate accidentally drunk some of their spiked champagne. His Mrs looked after him but I just wandered off into the night. I have no recollection of the night apart from a few moments. I may or may not have been raped by a rich Arab man/Dubai Phil. However, I think I wasn't really their type. They must have been pissed off when they saw me accidentally taking their roofie champagne and the Russian made in Chelsea hottie types drinking the normal stuff. If you had lost your handbag (according to the Telegraph columist) I think we can assume you were raped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I may or may not have been raped by a rich Arab man/Dubai Phil. You definitely was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 You definitely was. Wrapping a towel around your head or telling boring golf tales does not make you an Arab/DP Bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Don't act like you weren't there, GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 He went with me willingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 (edited) That's fine, you can't back up what you said, and that's cool, just wish you'd have said that a couple of pages ago, otherwise we could have saved all this bother. I've said the same thing throughout this thread, its crystal clear. You want me to "back up" the idea that some people in authority can write a set of guidelines? Now, I think I am right in saying that in British corporate, legal, sporting and governmental history there have been one or two instances when guidelines have been drawn up. Happy to be proven wrong. Edited 9 January, 2015 by CB Fry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Serious sexual assualt is when there is penetratio involved. Touching is not serious but can see seen as such if children are involved. There are grey areas depending on circumstances. So what do you call a Dave Lee Travis-style tit juggle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Professional sports people are a privileged breed. They get paid (often very well) for doing something most of them love and most of us would do for free. I wouldnt fill shelves at Tescos for nothing but would have happily played for SFC fr nowt if I had been good enough (subsidising my wages by filling shelves at Tescos of course). The more I think about a code of conduct the more think it is a good idea. It would stop all the nonsense we have had about Evans, McCormack etc and people would know where they stood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 A quick rundown of the greatest hits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 January, 2015 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Professional sports people are a privileged breed. They get paid (often very well) for doing something most of them love and most of us would do for free. I wouldnt fill shelves at Tescos for nothing but would have happily played for SFC fr nowt if I had been good enough (subsidising my wages by filling shelves at Tescos of course). The more I think about a code of conduct the more think it is a good idea. It would stop all the nonsense we have had about Evans, McCormack etc and people would know where they stood. Why stop this code of conduct at sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 So what do you call a Dave Lee Travis-style tit juggle? Not serious. T*tty w@nks on the other hand are a grey area. No penetration but you would have to say it was more than holding hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 Why stop this code of conduct at sports? I never really read my works contract but aren't their articles about your employer being able to terminate your employment if you found guilty of serious conduct??? Going back to Evans, was there a problem with him being a plumber or electrician though? I thought his issue was more about him being in the public eye and a role model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 9 January, 2015 Author Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I never really read my works contract but aren't their articles about your employer being able to terminate your employment if you found guilty of serious conduct??? Going back to Evans, was there a problem with him being a plumber or electrician though? I thought his issue was more about him being in the public eye and a role model? Being a role model is very subjective though Luke McCormick has turned it around brilliantly as he was given a second chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 I never really read my works contract but aren't their articles about your employer being able to terminate your employment if you found guilty of serious conduct??? Going back to Evans, was there a problem with him being a plumber or electrician though? I thought his issue was more about him being in the public eye and a role model? What sort of job did you have? Clown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 So is Steve Bruce a rape apologist now? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30742947 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 So is Steve Bruce a rape apologist now? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30742947 I've certainly lost some respect for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 9 January, 2015 Share Posted 9 January, 2015 What sort of job did you have? Clown? Argh, another effin typo. Misconduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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