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Ched Evans

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

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There are many professions whose professional bodies have the discretion to refuse to allow somebody convicted of certain offences to continue in that profession.

 

They include the legal profession, medical, teaching, police, and others.

 

Its not just about being a role model, but that's a factor. A professional footballer has a priveliged position. He's in the public eye. He has responsibilities, like the professionals above, to behave appropriately and as would be expected by his professional standing. Convicted rapists clearly fall below the expected standards.

 

If he was a lawyer, copper, teacher, etc, he would have to think about a new way of earning a coin. If he was a plumber or painter maybe not. Sure, his profession is different to these few examples but IMO the standing and priveliged position of a pro footballer is such that in circumstances like this a pro footballer cannot expect to return to his chosen profession.

 

Why do footballers have a responsibility to behave appropriately unless it's as a role model? I just don't see it.

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egg

egg

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Why do footballers have a responsibility to behave appropriately unless it's as a role model? I just don't see it.

 

What amounts to a role model is subjective. Its more about a professional status/social standing, and the standards expected. Imo being a rapist falls below the standards expected of any professional and the privelige of continuing in that profession should not be permitted in my opinion. You have a different view which I disagree with.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

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What amounts to a role model is subjective. Its more about a professional status/social standing, and the standards expected. Imo being a rapist falls below the standards expected of any professional and the privelige of continuing in that profession should not be permitted in my opinion. You have a different view which I disagree with.

 

So any professional, whether that be in IT, Accounting, Sport etc. So what job should he be allowed to do?

 

In addition to that, I would say any criminal activity is below the threshold in the above, so I assume anyone with a criminal record should also not be allowed into professional sport?

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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Why do footballers have a responsibility to behave appropriately unless it's as a role model? I just don't see it.

 

Because they represent their communities/towns/citys. He used to be refererred to as Sheffield United's Ched Evans. If an England player was to do something like that whilst away with the team it would reflect on the country too because they are there as a representative of the country.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

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Because they represent their communities/towns/citys. He used to be refererred to as Sheffield United's Ched Evans. If an England player was to do something like that whilst away with the team it would reflect on the country too because they are there as a representative of the country.

 

Should that not extend to all criminal activity then? Where do you draw the line?

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Tokyo-Saint

Tokyo-Saint

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It depends on your stance on rehabilitation and how closely you obey the word of the law yourself (the rehabilitation of offenders act 1974). I have just recently employed someone with a criminal record, you should take into account a large number of factors and make a balanced judgement based on the facts. It is really still a very gray area, as this thread shows, one mans opinion can be poles apart from another.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

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It depends on your stance on rehabilitation and how closely you obey the word of the law yourself (the rehabilitation of offenders act 1974). I have just recently employed someone with a criminal record, you should take into account a large number of factors and make a balanced judgement based on the facts. It is really still a very gray area, as this thread shows, one mans opinion can be poles apart from another.

 

Personally I don't think he should be playing football, BUT I don't think it is correct that this choice is made by the governing body, but more that no club should think about employing a convicted rapist.

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Minty

Minty

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Personally I don't think he should be playing football, BUT I don't think it is correct that this choice is made by the governing body, but more that no club should think about employing a convicted rapist.

 

And that is the key distinction IMO. I completely agree that I would not offer him a contract if I were at a football club, and I don't think he should be offered a contract by anyone, but that is a decision for each club to make, not the governing body.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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Should that not extend to all criminal activity then? Where do you draw the line?

 

Where indeed. If he had been done for speeding we wouldnt be having this thread now. Certain crimes at the higher end of the scale bring criminality into sharper focus though. If Evans was to go into schools and talk about how he was wrong and how rape is abhorent then maybe people would have a different view. I dont think he has helped himself with his attitude but even if he had been remorseful and contrite the situation might still be the same.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

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Where indeed. If he had been done for speeding we wouldnt be having this thread now. Certain crimes at the higher end of the scale bring criminality into sharper focus though. If Evans was to go into schools and talk about how he was wrong and how rape is abhorent then maybe people would have a different view. I dont think he has helped himself with his attitude but even if he had been remorseful and contrite the situation might still be the same.

 

I don't think role models should be able to speed, an inherently dangerous criminal activity.

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Minty

Minty

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Jeff, I'm not sure that pursuing the 'role model' line is appropriate. Footballers are often mentioned as role models, but that's not strictly the best description IMO. They are in the public eye and so their behaviour is scrutinised more closely as a result - and IDEALLY they should set a good example and maybe BECOME a role model. But they are not role models at the outset.

 

That said, most Saints Academy graduates seem to be good candidates because of the excellent all round education and grounding they get.

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Bearsy

Bearsy

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what if he was paedo? WOULD THAT BE OK? What if he was suicide bomber? What if he was convicted of doing a suicide bombing? WOULD THAT BE OK? You have to draw line somewhere IMO. I wouldn't employ this bro even if he had unpaid parking tickets.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

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There are many professions whose professional bodies have the discretion to refuse to allow somebody convicted of certain offences to continue in that profession.

 

They include the legal profession, medical, teaching, police, and others.

 

Its not just about being a role model, but that's a factor. A professional footballer has a priveliged position. He's in the public eye. He has responsibilities, like the professionals above, to behave appropriately and as would be expected by his professional standing. Convicted rapists clearly fall below the expected standards.

 

If he was a lawyer, copper, teacher, etc, he would have to think about a new way of earning a coin. If he was a plumber or painter maybe not. Sure, his profession is different to these few examples but IMO the standing and priveliged position of a pro footballer is such that in circumstances like this a pro footballer cannot expect to return to his chosen profession.

 

The thing is , there is no professional body that can refuse to allow him to be a footballer. I couldn't start suddenly being an accountant or a solicitor tomorrow regardless of whether somebody wanted to employ me as one. I could become a " professional" footballer. If les Reed knocked on my front door with a playing contract in hand , there is no law or no governing body to say " he's not qualified enough" . If the contract was for finance director , there would be.

 

Not one person who calls for a ban seems to be able to articulate how it will work in practical terms.

 

Who issues the ban?

 

Is it from all football and if not, who decides at what level a ban kicks in?

 

What happens if your at a non banned level and your team get promoted to a banned level or draw a banned level team in the cup?

 

Are you allowed to make a living out of football at a banned level.

 

What happens if you're a rapist playing for a Wessex League team and become a Charlie Austin, do you become banned because Swindon want to sign you?

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Tokyo-Saint

Tokyo-Saint

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I'm starting to feel for this bro. He's running out of options, and if he's not careful, he might end up working for tokyos :(

 

That was my 10K post FFS :( Goodbye, world.

 

Send your CV in bear and I will see what I can do. I can't promise anything as we don't employ just anyone (I won't lie, your shoplifting of cuppa soup will count against you) but sent it all over and we will have a laugh, I mean a look.

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CB Fry

CB Fry

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if you are going to rely on professional footballers to set an example or to act as some moral compass to the young or impressionable, then disappointment will follow you for ever.

 

the point whether they should set an example is a moot one. The question really is, "can they?".

 

If the real issue here is a bout role models, then any footballer convicted of any crime should be banned.

 

That's one hell of a strawman right there.

 

Well done on that.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

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Come on man, rape & speeding really aren't comparable.

 

I'm not comparing them, apart from the fact that they are both criminal offences. Where do you draw the line? It's also the fact that many criminal offences come in so many different flavours.

 

For instance, you punch someone in the mouth and knock out 4 of their teeth. You get a suspended sentence for GBH. Similarly, someone beats someone else to an absolute pulp, and gets 5 years. You are both guilty of the same offence. Which one should be allowed to play football again?

 

For me it is all or nothing. People should only be banned from jobs where there is an inherent danger to those involved with the job, or where there is an inherent risk for further criminal activity by being placed in that job.

 

The decision should therefore not be made by a governing body, but the employers themselves.

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buctootim

buctootim

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I'm not comparing them, apart from the fact that they are both criminal offences. Where do you draw the line? It's also the fact that many criminal offences come in so many different flavours.

 

For instance, you punch someone in the mouth and knock out 4 of their teeth. You get a suspended sentence for GBH. Similarly, someone beats someone else to an absolute pulp, and gets 5 years. You are both guilty of the same offence. Which one should be allowed to play football again?

 

For me it is all or nothing. People should only be banned from jobs where there is an inherent danger to those involved with the job, or where there is an inherent risk for further criminal activity by being placed in that job.

 

The decision should therefore not be made by a governing body, but the employers themselves.

 

Deep down everyone knows its about shades of grey. Somebody convicted of mass murder isnt going to get a PL contract, somebody with a speeding ticket will. Where clubs draw the line is down to media / public reaction as much as anything else.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

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Deep down everyone knows its about shades of grey. Somebody convicted of mass murder isnt going to get a PL contract, somebody with a speeding ticket will. Where clubs draw the line is down to media / public reaction as much as anything else.

 

And that is the important distinction, it's down to the club to draw the line.

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KelvinsRightGlove

KelvinsRightGlove

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I'm not comparing them, apart from the fact that they are both criminal offences. Where do you draw the line? It's also the fact that many criminal offences come in so many different flavours.

 

For instance, you punch someone in the mouth and knock out 4 of their teeth. You get a suspended sentence for GBH. Similarly, someone beats someone else to an absolute pulp, and gets 5 years. You are both guilty of the same offence. Which one should be allowed to play football again?

 

For me it is all or nothing. People should only be banned from jobs where there is an inherent danger to those involved with the job, or where there is an inherent risk for further criminal activity by being placed in that job.

 

The decision should therefore not be made by a governing body, but the employers themselves.

 

To be honest, I don't really disagree with this. I wouldn't be against the FA/PFA (I'm not sure who it would fall on to implement this, I'd guess FA as PFA is essentially a union) bringing in some sort of ruling that prevents murderers/rapists etc from playing football. But equally, I do think clubs should be the ones to take the lead.

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KelvinsRightGlove

KelvinsRightGlove

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Just out of interest, one of the big bugbears for many on here is the pressure put on the victim etc by Ched's supporters. I found it interesting that Oldham have pulled out citing threats to their staff and families...

 

Early days, but no one is condoning that.

 

As I added to the Sky News tweet, any threats that were made are indeed completely out of line.

 

Shame Ched can't bring himself to say that of his friends & family harassing his victim.

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Just out of interest, one of the big bugbears for many on here is the pressure put on the victim etc by Ched's supporters. I found it interesting that Oldham have pulled out citing threats to their staff and families...
Death threats to Oldham spnsors, you couldn't make it up :mcinnes: Whoever is in charge of managing Oldham's PR has had a 'mare here :lol:
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CB Saint

CB Saint

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Early days, but no one is condoning that.

 

As I added to the Sky News tweet, any threats that were made are indeed completely out of line.

 

Shame Ched can't bring himself to say that of his friends & family harassing his victim.

 

Quite - I am surprised that no-one in his inner circle has had the wit to tell him to sort this out.

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Bucks Saint

Bucks Saint

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Posted (edited)
Classy

 

"A club director told BBC sports editor Dan Roan that a staff member was told a named relative would be raped if the deal went ahead."

 

Excellent. Have an opinion yes, hugely disagree yes, protest yes, vote with feet and wallet yes. Threaten rape? Mob rule full circle

Edited by Bucks Saint
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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

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And now he has apologised, after a third move falls through...

 

Statement from PFA and Ched Evans

 

The players’ union, the PFA, has released a statement explaining its role in the mooted deal with Oldham, with quotes from Evans. The element of Evans’ comments is that he disowns those targeting his victim, saying:

 

I wish to make it clear that these people are not my supporters and I condemn their actions entirely and will continue to do so.

 

He also apologises to his victim, in a very slightly roundabout way:

 

I do remain limited at present by what I can say due to the ongoing referral to the Criminal Cases Review Commission and whilst I continue to maintain my innocence, I wish to make it clear that I wholeheartedly apologise for the effects that night in Rhyl has had on many people, not least the woman concerned.

 

Here’s the full statement.

 

The PFA wishes to clarify its position regarding Ched Evans following recent media reports.

 

Our previous statements are set out below and our support for Ched remains the same.

 

We have had some discussions with Oldham Athletic regarding the interest they expressed in signing Ched, although we feel it is important to make clear that, contrary to what has been reported, we were not ‘driving’ any deal. As we understand it, the club and player were in discussions and contact was then made with the PFA as matters progressed given the particular circumstances of this situation and we were simply being asked to publicly reiterate our support for the club in signing him. Despite being ready to offer this from the outset, we were asked to delay whilst discussions between the club and player continued, and we were disappointed to see over the course of this week, comments being made which we feel mischaracterise our limited role in this matter.

 

The PFA’s position remains the same, as we have expressed previously, that any club which decides to sign him would receive our support.

 

We fully recognise that this is a delicate and emotive case and entirely respect that there are opposing views. However, we always felt it was important that Ched made some further comment regarding his current situation and on that basis, he has asked that we include his comments below:

 

“I am grateful for the support of the PFA in helping me try to return to football and continue my career.

 

Upon legal advice, I was told not to discuss the events in question. This silence has been misinterpreted as arrogance and I would like to state that this could not be further from the truth.

 

I do remain limited at present by what I can say due to the ongoing referral to the Criminal Cases Review Commission and whilst I continue to maintain my innocence, I wish to make it clear that I wholeheartedly apologise for the effects that night in Rhyl has had on many people, not least the woman concerned.

 

Finally, it has been claimed that those using social media in an abusive and vindictive way towards this woman are supporters of mine. I wish to make it clear that these people are not my supporters and I condemn their actions entirely and will continue to do so.”

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Scummer

Scummer

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Posted
Ched Evans should not return to football but if the threats to family members of the club are true . then those making them are just as bad as Mr Evans

 

Two wrongs dont make a right.

 

I hope society does not go down the road of mob rule and that common sense will prevail

 

It shouldn't come as any surprise. When Judy Finnegan tried to make the point a few months ago that there are varying degrees of rape, people threatened to rape her daughter......

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trousers

trousers

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Posted
Classy

 

"A club director told BBC sports editor Dan Roan that a staff member was told a named relative would be raped if the deal went ahead."

 

Two sides to every story it would seem....

 

David Conn ‏@david_conn

Ched Evans: Police say they called Oldham Athletic & sponsors and were told no threats been made; a couple of "low level abuse on Twitter."

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Bucks Saint

Bucks Saint

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Or...it's taken his legal people this long to wake up to the damage that remaining silent can cause....

 

Or his legal people are (quite rightly) advising him on his legal position ref the conviction, investigation and any chance of an appeal, not what is being said in the media and on social sites about his possible football career. Even if they were, the former surely trumps the latter - i.e "0k, well apologise if you want to / it would be helpful, we understand that, but it will seriously damage your appeal chances. Our advice remains to say nothing for now". My speculation yes, but not that hard to imagine

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Saint_Ash

Saint_Ash

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Posted

The PFA are fighting hard to get Evans back to work as a footballer and it was pointed out last night on Talksport that there are lots of out of work footballers just been released from their clubs that the PFA haven't done anything for. Strange why they are pushing for Evans but ignoring the struggling hard working players that haven't raped anyone.

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