Batman Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 (edited) What are your thoughts? Should he be allowed to crack on with his career like anyone who has served their time or should he carry on being punished? Personally, I think he should be allowed to carry on with his career. He has served his penalty of the wrong he has done. But then, if it was a saints player........or if he scores against us next month....... Edited 14 November, 2014 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Good player offer him a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I wouldn't want a convicted rapist playing for saints. Then again I wouldn't want a convicted drunk driver or someone who carried out domestic violence playing for saints either but that's just me. No doubt other peoples mileage will vary..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 He has come across as an absolute cretin with no remorse, especially considering the additional suffering his victim has gone through. There are certain careers someone convicted of rape would not be allowed to continue. I think the high profile nature of professional football should be included in that. I feel sorry for Nigel Clough being put into a really difficult situation while the Sheffield United board are too gutless/greedy to do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 No one is stopping him get on with his life, people don't want him getting a high profile job, it would be the same if he was a TV presenter. Football teams represent their area, so if the people of Sheffield don't want him then so be it. Part of the problem is it appears that he believes he hasn't done anything wrong or he is finding it difficult to admit what he has done. No one knows want went one apart from the two people but he was found guilty so that is the only fact people can go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 It is quite an unusual case due to how of the two men who were accused of raping the woman at the same time, one was found guilty and one was found innocent. He was found guilty in a court of his peers, though, and in real life, unless the case is subsequently reviewed, you can't simply integrate back into society without consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 November, 2014 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2014 No one is stopping him get on with his life, people don't want him getting a high profile job, it would be the same if he was a TV presenter. Football teams represent their area, so if the people of Sheffield don't want him then so be it. Part of the problem is it appears that he believes he hasn't done anything wrong or he is finding it difficult to admit what he has done. No one knows want went one apart from the two people but he was found guilty so that is the only fact people can go on. If he say, wins an appeal in 10 years time and his conviction to thrown out. Would he be in a position to sue those who prevented him from playing for loss of earnings???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 What are your thoughts? Should he be allowed to crack on with his career like anyone who has served their time or should he carry on being punished? Personally, I think he should be allowed to carry on with his career. He has served his penalty of the wrong he has done. But then, if it was a saints player........or if he scores against us next month....... He has not served his penalty, he has been released from prison on licence half-way through his sentence. And to describe rape simply as a 'wrong' fails to understand what an appalling offence it is. No professional football club should employ Evans because football turns players into high-profile individuals who can be seen by young people as heroes and role models. Sexual crime is particularly nasty and extremely serious but no one convicted of serious crime should be allowed to cavort in front of the public as if the crime didn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 November, 2014 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I find the stance of evens misses rather odd. I assume she is his long term misses yet she is standing by him despite what he did whilst with her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 If he say, wins an appeal in 10 years time and his conviction to thrown out. Would he be in a position to sue those who prevented him from playing for loss of earnings???? What a desperate argument to try to justify the unjustifiable. Anyone wrongfully convicted doesn't have to sue anyone as there is a compensation scheme that takes account of the circumstances. But glad to have the opportunity to mention that if anyone is appalled as I am by the actions of the Sheffield United chairman, there is a petition you can sign on Change.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Not Saints' related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 November, 2014 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2014 What a desperate argument to try to justify the unjustifiable. Anyone wrongfully convicted doesn't have to sue anyone as there is a compensation scheme that takes account of the circumstances. But glad to have the opportunity to mention that if anyone is appalled as I am by the actions of the Sheffield United chairman, there is a petition you can sign on Change.org I'm not trying to justify anything. Jesus, calm down and stop being offended. Just asking a question to try and understand why the PFA and football would be and seem to be allowing him back in. It's not a one off, here in plymouth, they are flying in league 2 and their number 1 keeper has come from prison after killing people drink driving. (Luke McCormick) Just curious if there was a legal reason why the PFA ensure these characters are overtly helped back in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I wouldn't want a convicted rapist playing for saints. Then again I wouldn't want a convicted drunk driver or someone who carried out domestic violence playing for saints either but that's just me. No doubt other peoples mileage will vary..... .....this seems to be more of a moral question than a legal one. The old adage about ...." having paid their debt to society " (when he eventually does, that is)....will be little consolation to his victim who will surely find it difficult to "turn the page and move on". By their nature, footballers, pop stars and people in "the public eye " seem to feel there are "special circumstances " surrounding their lives that make them exceptions to society's hatred of violence. The real question is ..IF he comes back, and becomes " a local hero " by scoring a few important goals ..will society's perception of him (and his poor victim's)... suddenly change? ....Mine won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 The PFA is the players union so they would side on the right of the player,, in their defence their window on this is very small. Sheffield U hold his registration so I guess are obliged to let him train. This would be solved if SU just released him, they are not for some reason, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I'm not trying to justify anything. Jesus, calm down and stop being offended. Just asking a question to try and understand why the PFA and football would be and seem to be allowing him back in. It's not a one off, here in plymouth, they are flying in league 2 and their number 1 keeper has come from prison after killing people drink driving. (Luke McCormick) Just curious if there was a legal reason why the PFA ensure these characters are overtly helped back in the game If they've served their sentence, they should be allowed to get on with their lives and careers. Some of the reaction to Sheff Utd is wrong. What should really be questioned is how low the original prison sentence was, but that's slightly another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 [quote=Batman;2081565 It's not a one off, here in plymouth, they are flying in league 2 and their number 1 keeper has come from prison after killing people drink driving. (Luke McCormick) This, plus Lee Hughes, makes it hard to understand why they seem to have been accepted back into football but Evans apparently should never be. If it is because he is maintaining his innocence (and interesting that a review of his convinction has already been announced, in some sort of fast track process) then, if thats what he believes he is unlikely to change his view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I find the stance of evens misses rather odd. I assume she is his long term misses yet she is standing by him despite what he did whilst with her ££££££££££ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWD Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I can see it from both sides, and i don't really know how I feel about it. One part of me says the guys has been punished, and if we have faith in the rehabilitation power of prison then he should be free to go about his life again as he pleases. That said, there's no chance I would want him playing for Saints. As a footballer really his job is as a family entertainer and a community representative. Is that really the place for a convicted sex offender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 ££££££££££ Probably not if this is true Millionaire’s daughter Miss Massey insisted the only thing Evans had done wrong was to cheat on her, saying she had never doubted that he was innocent of rape despite the victim telling police she had no memory of having sex with him. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2792301/girlfriend-ched-evans-rapist-footballer-centre-judy-finnigan-loose-women-furore-says-s-forgiven-cheating-stand-man.html#ixzz3Iw1oCW6Z Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Lej Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 ££££££££££ Evans girlfriend comes from a millionaire father, who is bankrolling the appeal process and Evans website. Money definitely isn't the reason. Not sure what the reason is, unless she genuinely believes he's innocent of the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I wouldn't want a convicted rapist playing for saints. Then again I wouldn't want a convicted drunk driver or someone who carried out domestic violence playing for saints either but that's just me. No doubt other peoples mileage will vary..... Plenty of them of have played for Saint over the years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeintheslowlane Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 You wanna be in my gang, my gang, my gang? No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I can see it from both sides, and i don't really know how I feel about it. One part of me says the guys has been punished, and if we have faith in the rehabilitation power of prison then he should be free to go about his life again as he pleases. That said, there's no chance I would want him playing for Saints. As a footballer really his job is as a family entertainer and a community representative. Is that really the place for a convicted sex offender? This really Head says that once someone has served their sentence they can't keep getting punished we'd all want the same treatment if we had to serve a prison sentence.......but morally I think he is a scum bag and him picking up were he left off as a footballer seems wrong. I think if he got a job in tesco or as a street sweeper I wouldn't have an issue the idea of him getting back into a cushy number as a well paid footballer with the inevitable hero worship if he starts scoring regularly just doesn't seem like natural justice...........hell I can't even explain it other than it just seems wrong to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Probably not if this is true Millionaire’s daughter she had never doubted that he was innocent of rape despite the victim telling police she had no memory of having sex with him. My understanding is that Evans admits having sex with her - that isn't in dispute. Evans says she consented. The victim says that she was unable to consent, thus was raped. The jury accepted that and he's a convicted rapist. Certain professionals do not get the right to practice if they are convicted of certain crimes. Rapist footballers should be on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Football is an entertainment business. To many (younger), you can suspend belief and imagine yourself in their shoes. To others, you do expect a certain character to be present in the entertainer. A convicted rapist doesn't sit with what people expect. Wrong person for the business. He made his bed, was found guilty by his peers and should move on to a more anonymous business or play in another country (if he could get a visa). Players & manager are representatives of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Plenty of them of have played for Saint over the years! Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of Luke McCormick at Plymouth. In an ideal world I'd like saints players to be whiter than white in their behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millbrook Saint Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Plenty of them of have played for Saint over the years! Guly being the most recent I can think of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Other than a limited number of specific exceptions, afaik all convictions are treated equally under the law. Assuming he had been given the same length of sentence, what other crime could he have committed and yet be publicly 'accepted' back into the game after release ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Other than a limited number of specific exceptions, afaik all convictions are treated equally under the law. Assuming he had been given the same length of sentence, what other crime could he have committed and yet be publicly 'accepted' back into the game after release ? That's the problem imo. How do we decide which crimes warrant a return to football and which ones don't? I mean if lee hughes and Marlon king are allowed back then why should Evans be the one barred from a profession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-scooby Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 If he cant move on with his life after prison what's the point of sending him there in the first place. if he was a brickie or plumber doubt this would be a story. pretty sure all those that practice a spit roast at the weekend might need to get written consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Apologies if I'm genuinely ignorant of the case, but is it true that the girl herself didn't actually say it was rape but that they decided she was too drunk to have given her consent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 That's the problem imo. How do we decide which crimes warrant a return to football and which ones don't? I mean if lee hughes and Marlon king are allowed back then why should Evans be the one barred from a profession? Exactly. He should be allowed back inif Hughes and King were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I find the stance of evens misses rather odd. I assume she is his long term misses yet she is standing by him despite what he did whilst with her She isn't going out with 'Ched Evan's the person , she is going out with a 'footballer'. I expect she is one of those thick birds whose proud of the WAG label she has, regardless of circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 My understanding is that Evans admits having sex with her - that isn't in dispute. Evans says she consented. The victim says that she was unable to consent, thus was raped. The jury accepted that and he's a convicted rapist. Certain professionals do not get the right to practice if they are convicted of certain crimes. Rapist footballers should be on that list. I guess the whole case revolved around this point. It strikes me that if she was too drunk to remember anything then it is also possible that she did consent ! The fact that he has shown no remorse can also indicate that he genuinely believes that he is innocent, therefore why should he admit to something he hasn't actually done ? Nb. This hypothesis is purely for discussion within the thread so please don't attack me as if it is my own view ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 If he cant move on with his life after prison what's the point of sending him there in the first place. if he was a brickie or plumber doubt this would be a story. pretty sure all those that practice a spit roast at the weekend might need to get written consent. Of course he should move on with his life and maybe training to be a brickie or a plumber might be a good idea. The objection is that footballers are celebrities and as such their behaviour can influence the behaviour of others so he should not be taken back into a position where he might be seen by some as a role model. Rape is too serious for it just to mean a two and a half year suspension from a footballer's playing career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I would like to think that had he been a Saints player that as soon as he was released from his term we would have put out a statement saying that on no account would a convicted rapist be playing for a club like us. Will be some interesting chants when we play them, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Apologies if I'm genuinely ignorant of the case, but is it true that the girl herself didn't actually say it was rape but that they decided she was too drunk to have given her consent? Isn't rape a lack of consent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I suspect money speaks louder than words, and if the sponsors threaten to pull out then Sheff Utd wont sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 He has or more accurately is serving the punishment handed down by the court to ban him from football is part of this weird modern trend for the public to be outraged by everything. Yes he has been found guilty of a serious crime but why should he be banned from a well paid high profile job should bankers convicted of serious (non financial) crimes be banned from earning large sums? He hasn't apologised because that would end his appeal as it would be an admission of guilt and he clearly believes he is innocent of the charge. The case has always been an odd one as his co defendant was cleared of the same charge and it's interesting that the review has been fast tracked, if the conviction is overturned should he be allowed to play again or is the allegation enough to end his career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Apologies if I'm genuinely ignorant of the case, but is it true that the girl herself didn't actually say it was rape but that they decided she was too drunk to have given her consent? I believe you are right. The very odd thing is that the other guy (also a footballer, or ex player?) who had sex with her - which I think was also not in debate - was not guilty. Either they both should be guilty of rape, or both not guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Haven't read this thread so not sure if I'm repeating something already said.. But he's done his time. What's the point in the justice system if you're going to continue to punish them after they've served their sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 13 November, 2014 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2014 is it normal for appeals like this to be fast tracked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingdomCome Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I don't think convicted rapists should be permitted to return to professional football in any guise. It's a privilege, not a right. On a related point, however, in this particular case, I'm not convinced by the case for prosecution. But that isn't really OP's question. For good or ill Ched is a convicted rapist. The FA shouldn't act as judge on any perceived failings of the judicial system and should accept the conviction as a bar on any return for Ched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Haven't read this thread so not sure if I'm repeating something already said.. But he's done his time. What's the point in the justice system if you're going to continue to punish them after they've served their sentence? He was convicted in a court of law who pronounced him guilty of rape. He is a rapist and as a footballer, he is a role model; what does this say to young supporters? it's totally fine to rape someone? whilst most on here would poo-poo this view, no matter if he's "served his time" or not and was the most remorseful man on the planet (which he is not). I wouldn't let him anywhere near a football pitch. So no, I think everyone who has pulled out of Sheffield United are completely right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I guess the whole case revolved around this point. It strikes me that if she was too drunk to remember anything then it is also possible that she did consent ! If she was so drunk she couldn't remember what happened, then she would have been in no fit state to consent. 12 jurors heard evidence from him and her and were in no doubt of his guilt. If the conviction was flawed he would have appealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggers Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Short memories lads, what were the words of the Lee Barnard song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 I believe you are right. The very odd thing is that the other guy (also a footballer, or ex player?) who had sex with her - which I think was also not in debate - was not guilty. Either they both should be guilty of rape, or both not guilty If she consented to sex with his mate that doesn't mean she automatically consented to sex with Evans does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 If she consented to sex with his mate that doesn't mean she automatically consented to sex with Evans does it? This, she met the other fella out, got a cab back with him, shared a romantic pizza, etc etc. Evans just turned up uninvited and nailed her. Something like that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 Short memories lads, what were the words of the Lee Barnard song? The truth is different crimes, rightly or wrongly, hold different levels of seriousness in the public eye. Rape is generally considered a far worse crime than a punch up in a bar of course everyone's mileage differs..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 13 November, 2014 Share Posted 13 November, 2014 If she consented to sex with his mate that doesn't mean she automatically consented to sex with Evans does it? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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