Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 I think the AGM finally revealed that no matter how much business acumen Rupert Lowe possesses his deficiencies make it almost inconceivable he is able to fulfil the task of halting our slide or even turning our fortunes around. His dreadful PR, his delusional arrogant personality and his inflated belief in his football management abilities will forever preclude him from being a Chairman of a football club, in my opinion. But most on this Forum have probably come to that conclusion by now and the more pressing question is, will he go and if so who is he to be replaced with? I think sooner or later Cowen will have to step up (Tory Party style) and tap him on the shoulder and say enough. Cowen himself has had enough and for that reason it would probably be best if they both go – but who will step up to the plate? I spoke to Leon Crouch recently about whether he wanted to come back as Chairman and the answer was in the negative. I think he wants to clear his name of blame following some pretty unfair accusations from the present leadership and I think as an opponent of the duo (and as a fan) he just wants to see their departure. Perhaps he could come in for a while as a temporary Chairman to steady the ship until a new and fresh Board could be found. Although he didn’t exactly cover himself with glory during the 6 months in charge – Pearson excepted perhaps, there are a few advantages of Crouch returning, albeit on a caretaker basis. He has an excellent relationship with the club’s bankers (forged I believe by his private business using the same branch). He has a little experience already and other senior or influential shareholders/fans such as Mary Corbett, Pat Trant, Anthony Salz and Lawrie McMenemy would back him. Whether or not Anthony Salz and others would resurrect their interest in forming a Board if Lowe went I am not sure but I spoke to him 9 months ago and he was certainly interested then – he still goes to the games but since Lowe’s return has not been seen anywhere in SMS other than his seat in the Kingsland. Other than Salz I know of no other alternatives. However, even with a new Board and a more united fan base (bigger crowds hopefully) this club will still be in financial peril and desperate for investment. Unbelievably, only last week, Fulthorpe was claiming that the money is in place, diligence could be completed in time for new manager Alan Shearer to have a couple of weeks in the transfer market come January. Incredible I know. I have met Mr Fulthorpe and he seemed a nice bloke and one who looked in control of his marbles but, you have to say he is either completely stark raving barking mad or there must be some truth in his scarcely credible claims. I fear that if this deal founders (as likely it must) then we face a protracted period of player selling, more cutbacks and ultimately more misery. I think I can accept all that provided we have a Board I can trust and a young manager (not the increasingly erratic JP) committed to the cause who is given time to build us up again without the politics and personalities getting in the way. The overdraft must be tackled first before we can become masters of our destiny but even before that Mr Lowe must be persuaded that like most things in life returning to an old job or an old relationship often ends in tears. Happy New Year to all Saints fans wherever you may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Welcome back Duncan. Excellent piece. Happy new year to you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Well said !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Do you still speak to Rupert over the phone Duncan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 (edited) Can't Le Tissier be persuaded to "do a Niall Quinn?". Surely, as a famous figure head of the club, he would stand more chance of attracting the necessary funding (credit crunch aside) as he would be seen as a more affible consortium leader and thus someone that a philantropist or two would be more happy investing in/with compared to the 'fear' of investment that the current rabble must inject into potential investors....? Sunderland Chairman Heading the Drumaville Consortium of wealthy Irish businessmen, in June 2006 Quinn successfully brokered a deal to buy a controlling stake in Sunderland AFC.[9] In July 2006 Quinn became the chairman and manager of Sunderland.[10] The deal was finalised on July 27 2006, with sufficient shares being sold to the consortium in order for them to take complete control. edit: and get other high profile ex-player in on the act too...Channon, Paine, etc....players that CARED for the club when they played and who must surely care enough for the club now to form a high profile consortium.... Edited 27 December, 2008 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildgoose Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Thanks, an interesting and piece to read on this Christmas Saturday. Brought me some football sanity and just a little hope....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Lowe has made a tough situation worse through his appalling management decisions. Ending Lowe today could bring in £2m more from 5,000 more supporters for the 11 CCC home games left. Ending Lowe now has the bigger gain of bringing back support to help keep the team up. Crouch did very well with his first football Manager hire after the mistakes of supporting the internal appointments of D&G. However what I fear is that we will continue with Lowe and will be relegated. We will then go into admin, be docked points and then get relegated from L1 to L2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowllyd Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Good to see you back, FF - hope you keep on posting. And a Happy New Year to you too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 What are your personal thoughts about fulthorpes claims, Duncan!!!?? he really should put up or shut up now, don't think the saints fans can take anymore!!! another loss tomorrow, and we could be marooned!! have to say Shearer looked very content on the BBC sofa this morning though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 i hope fulthorpe is right but i fear he is a bentley without an engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 nice to see you back Duncan,who would have thought all those years ago as we played pinball in the Dolly Diner that the club we loved would be dominated by off the pitch issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Merry Christmas Duncan. Good to have you back. Good thread, shame about our club and chairmen! All the best for 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Can't Le Tissier be persuaded to "do a Niall Quinn?". Surely, as a famous figure head of the club, he would stand more chance of attracting the necessary funding (credit crunch aside) as he would be seen as a more affible consortium leader and thus someone that a philantropist or two would be more happy investing in/with compared to the 'fear' of investment that the current rabble must inject into potential investors....? edit: and get other high profile ex-player in on the act too...Channon, Paine, etc....players that CARED for the club when they played and who must surely care enough for the club now to form a high profile consortium.... Good old Mick must have some fantastic contacts from the middle east racing fraternity? Can he not pull a few strings?? :-) P.S Unfortunately I think Fulthrope is a raving loon. But would be more than happy to be proved totally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmary Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 I think the AGM finally revealed that no matter how much business acumen Rupert Lowe possesses his deficiencies make it almost inconceivable he is able to fulfil the task of halting our slide or even turning our fortunes around. His dreadful PR, his delusional arrogant personality and his inflated belief in his football management abilities will forever preclude him from being a Chairman of a football club, in my opinion. But most on this Forum have probably come to that conclusion by now and the more pressing question is, will he go and if so who is he to be replaced with? I think sooner or later Cowen will have to step up (Tory Party style) and tap him on the shoulder and say enough. Cowen himself has had enough and for that reason it would probably be best if they both go – but who will step up to the plate? I spoke to Leon Crouch recently about whether he wanted to come back as Chairman and the answer was in the negative. I think he wants to clear his name of blame following some pretty unfair accusations from the present leadership and I think as an opponent of the duo (and as a fan) he just wants to see their departure. Perhaps he could come in for a while as a temporary Chairman to steady the ship until a new and fresh Board could be found. Although he didn’t exactly cover himself with glory during the 6 months in charge – Pearson excepted perhaps, there are a few advantages of Crouch returning, albeit on a caretaker basis. He has an excellent relationship with the club’s bankers (forged I believe by his private business using the same branch). He has a little experience already and other senior or influential shareholders/fans such as Mary Corbett, Pat Trant, Anthony Salz and Lawrie McMenemy would back him. Whether or not Anthony Salz and others would resurrect their interest in forming a Board if Lowe went I am not sure but I spoke to him 9 months ago and he was certainly interested then – he still goes to the games but since Lowe’s return has not been seen anywhere in SMS other than his seat in the Kingsland. Other than Salz I know of no other alternatives. However, even with a new Board and a more united fan base (bigger crowds hopefully) this club will still be in financial peril and desperate for investment. Unbelievably, only last week, Fulthorpe was claiming that the money is in place, diligence could be completed in time for new manager Alan Shearer to have a couple of weeks in the transfer market come January. Incredible I know. I have met Mr Fulthorpe and he seemed a nice bloke and one who looked in control of his marbles but, you have to say he is either completely stark raving barking mad or there must be some truth in his scarcely credible claims. I fear that if this deal founders (as likely it must) then we face a protracted period of player selling, more cutbacks and ultimately more misery. I think I can accept all that provided we have a Board I can trust and a young manager (not the increasingly erratic JP) committed to the cause who is given time to build us up again without the politics and personalities getting in the way. The overdraft must be tackled first before we can become masters of our destiny but even before that Mr Lowe must be persuaded that like most things in life returning to an old job or an old relationship often ends in tears. Happy New Year to all Saints fans wherever you may be.Great to have you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Until Falsehope, Saltz or anyone else for that matter puts themselves forward, with conviction, it seems we are stuck with the guy who just got voted back in with c.95% of the vote, still unconvinced about Shearer as imo he will play a bit part with Newcastle in the near future. We are starting to see a divide between us and 17th in the table which is increasingly worrying as can not see where three wins on the bounce will come from with the current squad, so someone needs to act and act quickly, however, I continue to fear the worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Good old Mick must have some fantastic contacts from the middle east racing fraternity? Can he not pull a few strings?? :-) Exactly....philantropists are far more likely to push some pocket money our way if they are dealing with passionate, savvi ex-players than a divided board or a Micky Mouse consortium cobbled together by anonymous local businessmen. We need a consortium with influencial figureheads. If Niall Quinn can get off his arse to rescue the club that he loved then why are our ex-players sitting on theirs watching us wither and die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Thankyou, Fitzhugh Fella for an excellent and balanced post. There only seem to be two ways forward, either administration, and that is like playing Russian Roulette;or for Lowe to resign and as you suggest appoint a board that can truly represent the combined wishes of the creditors, shareholders and supporters best interests. It is self-evidently in everybody's interest to remain in The CCC this season and in future years challenge for promotion, while using our youth system to bring on good players-not to provide a barely post-pubescent and hopelessly inexperienced reserve team and hope for the best. Even our past greats had to be nurtured and didn't mature instantly. I just hope that it's not too late and/or Barclays will remove Lowe if he can't see sense. I have never felt so depressed about Saints or so pessimistic about their future, and I started supporting them in the last years of Div 3South! The worst thing is I expect them to lose now, any other result is an unexpected bonus. For Saints to prosper, somethinmgs got to change quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSaint75 Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 (edited) Wise words indeed. Something is going to give at some point, and I am loosing hope! I can only hope that Fulthorpe does indeed have the £60m he says he does, but I fear they may be waiting for admin Happy new year all, lets hope 09 doesn't go the way we are expecting! Edited 27 December, 2008 by TheSaint75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Duncan, you say returning to an old job or relationship often ends in tears but seem to be backing a group of people (including one with a bigger ego than Lowe's) to return? Those same people also made a pig's ear of running this club. Apparently you stood up in the meeting and asked Lowe about the past rather about what his plans are to keep us in the CCC and for the foreseeable future? Why? The past is dead and gone, the only thing that matters now is getting out of our current mess. Crouch was no better than anyone else we have had at the club in recent years, in fcat he was probably worse in many ways. You also whet people's appetite's with more tales of takeovers and Shearer??? You came on here and said that you were 99% certain that Pearson was staying. Didn't quite pan out did it? People listen to you because you have a long standing assosiation with the club and because you have a certain cult status after your well publicised phone call with Lowe. Perhaps you should be more careful about what you post? We are now going to have weeks of speculation about another alleged takeover and new manager... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Mockles Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Crouch was no better than anyone else we have had at the club in recent years, in fcat he was probably worse in many ways... What evidence do you have to suggest Crouch was worse than Lowe? CRAZY! Some people shouldn't drink so much at Xmas!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Duncan, you say returning to an old job or relationship often ends in tears but seem to be backing a group of people (including one with a bigger ego than Lowe's) to return? Those same people also made a pig's ear of running this club. Apparently you stood up in the meeting and asked Lowe about the past rather about what his plans are to keep us in the CCC and for the foreseeable future? Why? The past is dead and gone, the only thing that matters now is getting out of our current mess. Crouch was no better than anyone else we have had at the club in recent years, in fcat he was probably worse in many ways. You also whet people's appetite's with more tales of takeovers and Shearer??? You came on here and said that you were 99% certain that Pearson was staying. Didn't quite pan out did it? People listen to you because you have a long standing assosiation with the club and because you have a certain cult status after your well publicised phone call with Lowe. Perhaps you should be more careful about what you post? We are now going to have weeks of speculation about another alleged takeover and new manager... I am now getting to a point where I wonder whether you are senile!!!:smt035 Most of the stuff above could have been written by my little nephew, who depsite only being 6 said to me yesterday: "It still amazes me how people can blindly follow the crass experiment implemented by Lowe, and activated by Poortvliet. If action isn't taken soon to curtail this folly, then I fear for the future of this once great Club. There may come a time when I have to stop going and start protesting. Lowe's comeback has been a complete and utter failure, on a par with Napoleon's comeback from Elba in 1815. And why do all old people smell of stale urine?":rolleyes: You would do well to read in more detail what others post and then take time to take it all in, before you start thumping the keyboard.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmary Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 I am now getting to a point where I wonder whether you are senile!!!:smt035 Most of the stuff above could have been written by my little nephew, who depsite only being 6 said to me yesterday: "It still amazes me how people can blindly follow the crass experiment implemented by Lowe, and activated by Poortvliet. If action isn't taken soon to curtail this folly, then I fear for the future of this once great Club. There may come a time when I have to stop going and start protesting. Lowe's comeback has been a complete and utter failure, on a par with Napoleon's comeback from Elba in 1815. And why do all old people smell of stale urine?":rolleyes: You would do well to read in more detail what others post and then take time to take it all in, before you start thumping the keyboard.;)The clue is in his name;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 I think the AGM finally revealed that no matter how much business acumen Rupert Lowe possesses his deficiencies make it almost inconceivable he is able to fulfil the task of halting our slide or even turning our fortunes around. His dreadful PR, his delusional arrogant personality and his inflated belief in his football management abilities will forever preclude him from being a Chairman of a football club, in my opinion. But most on this Forum have probably come to that conclusion by now and the more pressing question is, will he go and if so who is he to be replaced with? I think sooner or later Cowen will have to step up (Tory Party style) and tap him on the shoulder and say enough. Cowen himself has had enough and for that reason it would probably be best if they both go – but who will step up to the plate? I spoke to Leon Crouch recently about whether he wanted to come back as Chairman and the answer was in the negative. I think he wants to clear his name of blame following some pretty unfair accusations from the present leadership and I think as an opponent of the duo (and as a fan) he just wants to see their departure. Perhaps he could come in for a while as a temporary Chairman to steady the ship until a new and fresh Board could be found. Although he didn’t exactly cover himself with glory during the 6 months in charge – Pearson excepted perhaps, there are a few advantages of Crouch returning, albeit on a caretaker basis. He has an excellent relationship with the club’s bankers (forged I believe by his private business using the same branch). He has a little experience already and other senior or influential shareholders/fans such as Mary Corbett, Pat Trant, Anthony Salz and Lawrie McMenemy would back him. Whether or not Anthony Salz and others would resurrect their interest in forming a Board if Lowe went I am not sure but I spoke to him 9 months ago and he was certainly interested then – he still goes to the games but since Lowe’s return has not been seen anywhere in SMS other than his seat in the Kingsland. Other than Salz I know of no other alternatives. However, even with a new Board and a more united fan base (bigger crowds hopefully) this club will still be in financial peril and desperate for investment. Unbelievably, only last week, Fulthorpe was claiming that the money is in place, diligence could be completed in time for new manager Alan Shearer to have a couple of weeks in the transfer market come January. Incredible I know. I have met Mr Fulthorpe and he seemed a nice bloke and one who looked in control of his marbles but, you have to say he is either completely stark raving barking mad or there must be some truth in his scarcely credible claims. I fear that if this deal founders (as likely it must) then we face a protracted period of player selling, more cutbacks and ultimately more misery. I think I can accept all that provided we have a Board I can trust and a young manager (not the increasingly erratic JP) committed to the cause who is given time to build us up again without the politics and personalities getting in the way. The overdraft must be tackled first before we can become masters of our destiny but even before that Mr Lowe must be persuaded that like most things in life returning to an old job or an old relationship often ends in tears. Happy New Year to all Saints fans wherever you may be. Really good to have you back and with a good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 The big stumbling block which makes relegation to L1 a distinct possibility, if not a probability, is our financial position. Lowe and his supporters say they are back to try to stabilise and improve the present spin into Administration and maybe worse, Liquidation. Crouch was aware it was needed as well but would have gone about it a different way. Who knows which would have worked, or whether it would/will work at all. Has the damage already been done? On one hand you have a group of coaches trying something different, one might say thinking outside of the box (where all our players seem to be at present) with a young cost limitating side. So far a failure despite all the pretty football. On the other you have a Manager who just managed to keep us up but would have to work with the same financial restrictions and with most of the kids but with old fashioned ideas and methods. He is proving a success at Leicester but he does not have the same budget constraints. We might be in the same position no matter which method was used! There is no doubt Lowe and his team have lost the confidence of the majority of the supporters but not, it seems, the majority of shareholders. A present our only real funding is from gate money paid by the supporters so that has to take precedence. Will gates improve substantially to near to last seasons levels if he goes? My own veiw is that is unlikely. A few may come back but not enough to make a difference. What will bring back the crowds is winning, exciting football. Value for money. We are not geting that combination at present and there is now no sign it will come soon. Changing the board now without a decent investor will only bring more instability. It will just be "rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic" What we need is a change of direction at the football level. Our present coaches are just not up to the job. They say Lowe is not influencing their choices and that if he was they would leave. Well either they are being economical with the truth and therefore too weak to stand up and be counted or they just do not have that it takes. We need to bring in someone at the Manager/Coach level that can work with the constraints and try to steady the ship. As for investment, as Duncan says, Fulthorpe is still talking the talk. I have a different source and am getting similar vibes. But both Duncan and myself (we have been talking and keeping in touch over the past few moths) consider the plans so far reaching and with the financial backing so staggering that it just has to be fantasy land stuff. But some of the background evidence suggests it is a real attempt. Time will tell. My own view is that IF it is going to happen it will likely be months away at the earliest, despite Futhorpe saying it will happen it time for the transfer window. How many times has he missed his promised deadline!!!!! The correct answer to Duncan's question? For me, give Lowe the chance to finish the financial stability he came back for (despite the bad taste that leaves) but with a change in direction in the way we do things in the training room and on the field of play. For me that means a change in Management to someone who understands English football and all that goes with it. Who? Who knows!!! All I know is that it is difficult and painfull being a supporter at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowballs2 Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Duncan its about time you were back with your normal balanced views. Crouch must now sit down with Wilde and get him to withdraw his support before the club dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 My rather optimistic theory is that this Fulthorpe thing was all set to happen but Lowe and Wilde wouldn't accept the offer for their shares, thinking it was worthwhile giving it a shot themselves to try and rescue their investment. Now as it is obvious this in not achieveble, I am hoping they will accept the lower price to try and salvage something from their investment and Fulthorpes lot can save the day. There is now obviously no way forward without investment, it's accept a nominal amount or get nowt at admin. I just hope this is the scenario or we are ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 My rather optimistic theory is that this Fulthorpe thing was all set to happen but Lowe and Wilde wouldn't accept the offer for their shares, thinking it was worthwhile giving it a shot themselves to try and rescue their investment. Now as it is obvious this in not achieveble, I am hoping they will accept the lower price to try and salvage something from their investment and Fulthorpes lot can save the day. There is now obviously no way forward without investment, it's accept a nominal amount or get nowt at admin. I just hope this is the scenario or we are ****ed. It has nothing to do with share value. It has nothing to do with Lowe rejecting any offer. No offer has been made yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Duncan its about time you were back with your normal balanced views. Crouch must now sit down with Wilde and get him to withdraw his support before the club dies. Unfortunately that is not going to happen. Crouch has tried an approach to SLH (will not go into details as Mr Crouch does not want it publicised) and it was rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Graet post from a top bloke duncan. I agree with you on almost everything. The only thing I would say is what exactly could have crouch done differently in the 6 months he was chairman? The club was going places with his appointemtn pearson. It seems logical that he should run things until an investor comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 What we need is a change of direction at the football level. But my problem with that Ron, is that Lowe is intrinscially linked in at the football level. He picked these guys, he oversaw the implementation of the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up, the new strategy etc etc etc. He is not the solution, he and his strategies have been the problem. Removing Poortvliet, but keeping Lowe in on the day to day decisions (encompassing all the footballing ones as well) would be the shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic, as the overiding force (and ego) would still be in charge. The strategy would remain the same, the policy would remain the same and the direction would remain the same. IMHO for a new manager to have any chance of succeeding, he would have to be able to work how he wants to (within reason of course), not be constrained by the failed strategies Lowe has implemented and wants to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Lowe has made a tough situation worse through his appalling management decisions. Ending Lowe today could bring in £2m more from 5,000 more supporters for the 11 CCC home games left. Ending Lowe now has the bigger gain of bringing back support to help keep the team up. Crouch did very well with his first football Manager hire after the mistakes of supporting the internal appointments of D&G. However what I fear is that we will continue with Lowe and will be relegated. We will then go into admin, be docked points and then get relegated from L1 to L2. A realistic, sensible post FF. And I sadly also have to concur with your scenario Topcat. We all desperately need an inspiring leader to rally round. This is our only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 (edited) However, even with a new Board and a more united fan base (bigger crowds hopefully) this club will still be in financial peril and desperate for investment. Unbelievably, only last week, Fulthorpe was claiming that the money is in place, diligence could be completed in time for new manager Alan Shearer to have a couple of weeks in the transfer market come January. Incredible I know. I have met Mr Fulthorpe and he seemed a nice bloke and one who looked in control of his marbles but, you have to say he is either completely stark raving barking mad or there must be some truth in his scarcely credible claims. I fear that if this deal founders (as likely it must) then we face a protracted period of player selling, more cutbacks and ultimately more misery. I think I can accept all that provided we have a Board I can trust and a young manager (not the increasingly erratic JP) committed to the cause who is given time to build us up again without the politics and personalities getting in the way. The overdraft must be tackled first before we can become masters of our destiny but even before that Mr Lowe must be persuaded that like most things in life returning to an old job or an old relationship often ends in tears. Happy New Year to all Saints fans wherever you may be. That is the key. Now I think we need to mobilise the whole fan base AND THE PRESS as aggressively as necessary to try and achieve this. Mr Lowe and Wilde need to be embarrassed into accepting this deal... AND FAST. Our leaders awaiteth on the pitch and in the boardroom. Edited 27 December, 2008 by SaintRobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 But my problem with that Ron, is that Lowe is intrinscially linked in at the football level. He picked these guys, he oversaw the implementation of the Revolutionary Coaching Set Up, the new strategy etc etc etc. He is not the solution, he and his strategies have been the problem. Removing Poortvliet, but keeping Lowe in on the day to day decisions (encompassing all the footballing ones as well) would be the shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic, as the overiding force (and ego) would still be in charge. The strategy would remain the same, the policy would remain the same and the direction would remain the same. IMHO for a new manager to have any chance of succeeding, he would have to be able to work how he wants to (within reason of course), not be constrained by the failed strategies Lowe has implemented and wants to follow. A difficult situation Steve and you may well be right. However I hang onto the hope that Lowe's main priority is the financial situation and if he suceeds on that front there is a way forward in the future. With that view he may be forced to change direction on the football front. May be I am being a little naive or perhaps grasping at straws! I have respect for Crouch and know he was trying to do his best. He is still passionate for Saints but I fear his passion may colour his financial decision making even with the likes of Salz and Co behind him. In business he must have been ruthless to succeed but put a recreational aspect into the equation and it is a different matter for someone with his passion. I cannot see anyone else on the horizon at the present time (Fulthorpe "fantasy" excepted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 That is the key. Now I think we need to mobilise the whole fan base as aggressively as necessary to try and achieve this. Mr Lowe and Wilde need to be embarrassed into accepting this deal... AND FAST. Our leaders awaiteth on the pitch and in the boardroom. Robbie, if the Fulthorpe deal, as I understand it, is put on the table Lowe will have no difficulty accepting it. The offer has to be made first and no supporter pressure is going to make that happen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Robbie, if the Fulthorpe deal, as I understand it, is put on the table Lowe will have no difficulty accepting it. The offer has to be made first and no supporter pressure is going to make that happen!! Then lets put pressure on Fulthorpe to declare his hand and therefore embarrass Lowe into telling the world why he wont accept the deal. Personally I think you are wrong. I think Lowe has no intention of going anywhere and options for removing him once and for all are now likely to boil down to Branfoot tactics. I will have nothing to do with that but many will. My family of ex ST holdees will not be there to witness that inevitability. Come on Fulthorpe - get on to the Echo and declare your hand - AND DO IT FAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Great to see you back Duncan and a good post, as usual. The main difference that I perceive between the current board and their potential successors is over the question of unity of the fan base. Lowe's board is the most divisive in the history of the club (unless you can correct me as the club's historian ) A new chairman would have the moral authority that Lowe does not have to issue a passionate rallying call to the fans to support the club in the hour of its greatest need. I agree that Crouch would not have total support, but would be a good stand-in option until a new board and chairman was appointed. Half of the problem with gaining complete support for change is that some reasonably ask what the alternative is to be and they compare the change of board to the changing around of the deck chairs on the Titanic, which is fair enough if the board was simply a change of the usual suspects. After the AGM, a group of us were exchanging ideas and one fellow suggested that perhaps a rival board should be formed as a board in waiting. The more I think about it, the better an option it appears. If the other major shareholders were to make approaches to a potential new chairman such as Salz and make use of the contacts that somebody like him would have and come up with names of other respected and competant people who would also be prepared to serve in the running of the club, they could be put forward to the fans, the media etc as the board in waiting. If they were an impressive alternative to the current board, with more widespread support, they could approach the Bank and loan note holders, who might then call on the Lowe board to resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Great to see you back Duncan and a good post, as usual. The main difference that I perceive between the current board and their potential successors is over the question of unity of the fan base. Lowe's board is the most divisive in the history of the club (unless you can correct me as the club's historian ) A new chairman would have the moral authority that Lowe does not have to issue a passionate rallying call to the fans to support the club in the hour of its greatest need. I agree that Crouch would not have total support, but would be a good stand-in option until a new board and chairman was appointed. Half of the problem with gaining complete support for change is that some reasonably ask what the alternative is to be and they compare the change of board to the changing around of the deck chairs on the Titanic, which is fair enough if the board was simply a change of the usual suspects. After the AGM, a group of us were exchanging ideas and one fellow suggested that perhaps a rival board should be formed as a board in waiting. The more I think about it, the better an option it appears. If the other major shareholders were to make approaches to a potential new chairman such as Salz and make use of the contacts that somebody like him would have and come up with names of other respected and competant people who would also be prepared to serve in the running of the club, they could be put forward to the fans, the media etc as the board in waiting. If they were an impressive alternative to the current board, with more widespread support, they could approach the Bank and loan note holders, who might then call on the Lowe board to resign. Very interesting post. I like the idea of forming a board in waiting. But, it would have to be the Fulthorpe board. Very clever idea as it actually forces the takeover board into the open too. I would hope it would also be a Football Board rather than plc one, but one thing at a time I suppose. Might just work against an entrenched Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Then lets put pressure on Fulthorpe to declare his hand and therefore embarrass Lowe into telling the world why he wont accept the deal. Personally I think you are wrong. I think Lowe has no intention of going anywhere and options for removing him once and for all are now likely to boil down to Branfoot tactics. I will have nothing to do with that but many will. My family of ex ST holdees will not be there to witness that inevitability. Come on Fulthorpe - get on to the Echo and declare your hand - AND DO IT FAST. I don't do it very often, but I do agree with LOWE on this one. There is NO DEAL. Fulthorpe is just another in a long line of lunatics to promise something and deliver nothing. It DOESN'T take that long to get the funds together to buy SFC and this idiot has been trying to do it for nearly a year now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Apparently you stood up in the meeting and asked Lowe about the past rather about what his plans are to keep us in the CCC and for the foreseeable future? I think you're confusing the club historian with a Soothsayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Great to see you back Duncan and a good post, as usual. The main difference that I perceive between the current board and their potential successors is over the question of unity of the fan base. Lowe's board is the most divisive in the history of the club (unless you can correct me as the club's historian ) A new chairman would have the moral authority that Lowe does not have to issue a passionate rallying call to the fans to support the club in the hour of its greatest need. I agree that Crouch would not have total support, but would be a good stand-in option until a new board and chairman was appointed. Half of the problem with gaining complete support for change is that some reasonably ask what the alternative is to be and they compare the change of board to the changing around of the deck chairs on the Titanic, which is fair enough if the board was simply a change of the usual suspects. After the AGM, a group of us were exchanging ideas and one fellow suggested that perhaps a rival board should be formed as a board in waiting. The more I think about it, the better an option it appears. If the other major shareholders were to make approaches to a potential new chairman such as Salz and make use of the contacts that somebody like him would have and come up with names of other respected and competant people who would also be prepared to serve in the running of the club, they could be put forward to the fans, the media etc as the board in waiting. If they were an impressive alternative to the current board, with more widespread support, they could approach the Bank and loan note holders, who might then call on the Lowe board to resign. As I used the deck chairs analogy I thought I would just say I agree with the alternative "board in waiting" idea. That might just steer us away from the "iceberg" Salz as Chairman would be a positive and would no doubt, with a carefully chosen board of "supporters" such as Davies and other local businessment with no previous "taint" and with a CEO with football background, unite the supporters. The problem is persuading a group like that to take on a failing company when they have nothing to prove other than their "love" for our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 As I used the deck chairs analogy I thought I would just say I agree with the alternative "board in waiting" idea. That might just steer us away from the "iceberg" Salz as Chairman would be a positive and would no doubt, with a carefully chosen board of "supporters" such as Davies and other local businessment with no previous "taint" and with a CEO with football background, unite the supporters. The problem is persuading a group like that to take on a failing company when they have nothing to prove other than their "love" for our club. I'm encouraged to hear someone like you whose opinion I respect giving this idea some credence. I wonder whether there are others with influence out there who have contacts with people who might progress this scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 As I used the deck chairs analogy I thought I would just say I agree with the alternative "board in waiting" idea. That might just steer us away from the "iceberg" Salz as Chairman would be a positive and would no doubt, with a carefully chosen board of "supporters" such as Davies and other local businessment with no previous "taint" and with a CEO with football background, unite the supporters. The problem is persuading a group like that to take on a failing company when they have nothing to prove other than their "love" for our club. Would a like minded group of rich Saints supporters be at hand and willing? Yes....but Mr Lowe is not interested and will not let go..He is like a spoilt little kid and appears to have hidden his freind, who gave him some sweets, in the cupboard, so he can eat all the sweets himself. Where are you Wildey? Let go Lowey, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 I don't do it very often, but I do agree with LOWE on this one. There is NO DEAL. Fulthorpe is just another in a long line of lunatics to promise something and deliver nothing. It DOESN'T take that long to get the funds together to buy SFC and this idiot has been trying to do it for nearly a year now. Which is why I have been posting that Fulthorpe needs to openly declare his interest now in the Echo ... or shut up. At the moment however, he is the only ray of optimism we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Which is why I have been posting that Fulthorpe needs to openly declare his interest now in the Echo ... or shut up. At the moment however, he is the only ray of optimism we have. the fact we dont hear from them ... doesnt that mean that have 'shut up'...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladysaint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Good to see you back posting on here Duncan, what about your spearheading a campaign to get our club back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 the fact we dont hear from them ... doesnt that mean that have 'shut up'...? LOL... but the fact that the Club Historian has just rekindled the debate and possibility rather puts Fulthorpe back into the mix ol' friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Good to see you back posting on here Duncan, what about your spearheading a campaign to get our club back then. Here here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 I'm encouraged to hear someone like you whose opinion I respect giving this idea some credence. I wonder whether there are others with influence out there who have contacts with people who might progress this scheme? Thinking this through a bit more there is a fly in the ointment. IF we could get a "board in waiting" and IF they could persuade the Bank and Loan Note Holder to put pressure on Lowe and the board to resign I doubt, without clear evidence of investment, they would step down. I suspect under such pressure Lowe would threaten to place the club in voluntary liquidation and that might frighten the creditors into continuing their support. An alternative would be another costly and damaging EGM. With the Lowe Group and Wilde holding such a large tranch of voting shares there is no guarantee of success. All very depressing or there flaws in my views I have not seen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Thinking this through a bit more there is a fly in the ointment. IF we could get a "board in waiting" and IF they could persuade the Bank and Loan Note Holder to put pressure on Lowe and the board to resign I doubt, without clear evidence of investment, they would step down. I suspect under such pressure Lowe would threaten to place the club in voluntary liquidation and that might frighten the creditors into continuing their support. An alternative would be another costly and damaging EGM. With the Lowe Group and Wilde holding such a large tranch of voting shares there is no guarantee of success. All very depressing or there flaws in my views I have not seen? Very true. But I think the idea of a board in waiting is a protest in itself that should attract more Press coverage at least, and it is constructive. So far Richard Chorley and Lawrie Mac have been the only fans and legends to take a stand, a board in waiting - toothless as it maybe - provides a rallying point and potentially better and more unified leadership with which to orchestrate further damage on Lowe and the plc board. We have to do something. Starting by constructing a unified forum that could provide leadership to challenge Lowe and the plc board is as good a start point as any. Definitely one of the more constructive ideas of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 27 December, 2008 Share Posted 27 December, 2008 Good to see you back posting on here Duncan, what about your spearheading a campaign to get our club back then. will not be long before some internet , non game attending nerd comes on saying I DO NOT need anyone spearheading any campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now