Professor Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not. So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 If it is true that Rasiak is off then I have no doubt that we will keep hold of Stern. Good move too as he fits into our new system much better than GR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not. So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG. he wasn't -he was suspended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Rasiak is near enough gone, so John is possibly back in the fold for the moment. They were both items for sale. It's less likely John is the next to be offloaded now. Given that BWP wasn't involved at all at Exeter (so no cup-tied stuff) I'd assume he is the next forward to be offloaded now by choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Rasiak is near enough gone, so John is possibly back in the fold for the moment. They were both items for sale. It's less likely John is the next to be offloaded now. Given that BWP wasn't involved at all at Exeter (so no cup-tied stuff) I'd assume he is the next forward to be offloaded now by choice. It seems to me that all the high earners are "for sale" but some are more for sale than others. Sort of "fairplay all round but we know who we really want to leave" stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not. So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG. Because he was suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 It would seem that SJ is very much in Poortvleit's plans for Saturday - good job too IMO . http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/display.var.2426032.0.john_looking_to_fire_saints_against_his_old_club.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 This assumption SJ must be staying because Rasiak is going - bizarre.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 This assumption SJ must be staying because Rasiak is going - bizarre.......... An the assumption that SJ is going because GR has gone is bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 15 August, 2008 Author Share Posted 15 August, 2008 he wasn't -he was suspended Is a one game suspension, when there are two games a week, usually described as being 'out of the squad'? Maybe NickG is right, but I'm more inclined to think this means he and Rasiak were both available for sale on the basis that only one would be allowed to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 An the assumption that SJ is going because GR has gone is bizarre. Who is assuming that then ? EVERYONE IS UP FOR SALE IF AN OFFER COMES IN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 where has it ever been said that John and Rasiak are going? It seems most have always been saying that one of them should go, as most on here agreed we cannot play both or afford to have a player such as them on the bench. One clearly needs to go, I will be surprised and disappointed if both go. Remember the predictions for the max exodus over the close season and not one new player in? Hardly any of the players people wanted to stay have gone and there have been a couple of decent signings. There is no need to lean towards this total doom as it is proving not that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Is a one game suspension, when there are two games a week, usually described as being 'out of the squad'? Maybe NickG is right, but I'm more inclined to think this means he and Rasiak were both available for sale on the basis that only one would be allowed to leave. It's been obvious all pre-season that SJ is the preferred choice in the loan striker role. GR has always been the square peg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hacienda Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Who is assuming that then ? You are, unless your addled brain has blown a fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 You are, unless your addled brain has blown a fuse. LOL. I think you need to read that little exchange again, mate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchen Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Who is assuming that then ? EVERYONE IS UP FOR SALE IF AN OFFER COMES IN. For once, Alpine is right in that this has always been true. But it depends on the size of the offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 This assumption SJ must be staying because Rasiak is going - bizarre.......... It may be a bzarre assumption, but equally it may be that we can breathe a sigh of relief. With the JP formation (which most of the PL play these days) we had 4 players for one position of "lone striker". Now two have gone and it APPEARS to be SJ with DMG to fight for the one place. The trick will still be to keep both of them high on confidence and in form and fit. Playing both in the same side if DMG suddenly becomes a "winger" as in the second half at Exeter may mess up those plans though. I don't LIKE it but I still expect that we need to reduce the costs and sell Skacel and hopefully Euell but if we can't then Thomas and KD would likely HAVE to be sold to keep us in business, and if THEY can't be sold that leaves us losing Surman, Davies and basically ANY hope for the future. Saturday will be a better marker for how bad things could be without the old pros. If we get blown away by Brum then panic buttons time. If we give them a good game then this whole thing could work. Surman is a kid but he has played over 100 games for us, and Gillett & Lallana should have played 20+ games for us last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Who is assuming that then ? EVERYONE IS UP FOR SALE IF AN OFFER COMES IN. Whilst your statement is true, it is not the same thing as EVERYONE WILL BE SOLD. The plan was to get some of the high earners off of the books, once some have gone that can be reassessed. With Rasiak gone (good) John is almost certain to stay, thats why he's in the squad and playing, while Ras wasn't. Actually I'm really happy about this because SJ is better than GR and we did not need both. Just a shame Greg is going to a rival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Whilst your statement is true, it is not the same thing as EVERYONE WILL BE SOLD. The plan was to get some of the high earners off of the books, once some have gone that can be reassessed. With Rasiak gone (good) John is almost certain to stay, thats why he's in the squad and playing, while Ras wasn't. Actually I'm really happy about this because SJ is better than GR and we did not need both. Just a shame Greg is going to a rival. So Rasiak goes to Watford. Next week some team tables an offer for Stern. Tell me, what do you think Lowe would do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 So Rasiak goes to Watford. Next week some team tables an offer for Stern. Tell me, what do you think Lowe would do ? Consider it on its merits, like the club should be doing on all offers. Rasiak and Saganowski clearly don't fit into the intended system (Rasiak particularly) so it makes sense for them to be sent out on loan to relieve a bit of the wage bill for a few months. If someone came in with a ridiculous offer (£1m+) for SJ (which they won't... clearly), it would probably be accepted. However, I would expect that to be subject to us finding a suitable replacement. Whether Rasiak could be moulded to fit into the system at this stage of his career, I'm not convinced, which would probably leave us looking at the loan market for a season-long loan if possible from a lower to mid-table Premier League club. Not ideal, but that's the situation we find ourselves in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Consider it on its merits, like the club should be doing on all offers. Rasiak and Saganowski clearly don't fit into the intended system (Rasiak particularly) so it makes sense for them to be sent out on loan to relieve a bit of the wage bill for a few months. If someone came in with a ridiculous offer (£1m+) for SJ (which they won't... clearly), it would probably be accepted. However, I would expect that to be subject to us finding a suitable replacement. Whether Rasiak could be moulded to fit into the system at this stage of his career, I'm not convinced, which would probably leave us looking at the loan market for a season-long loan if possible from a lower to mid-table Premier League club. Not ideal, but that's the situation we find ourselves in. As I said steve, Saga's move annoyed me more, Rasiak coming on top of that so quickly is just the thin end of the wedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 As I said steve, Saga's move annoyed me more, Rasiak coming on top of that so quickly is just the thin end of the wedge. I suspect a number of factors have come into the decision to let Saga move to Denmark. It's probably been a straight choice between him and BWP, and the following have been taken into account: 1. Wages - MS probably slightly higher than BWP 2. Last season's record - 8 goals for BWP, only 3 for MS 3. Willingness to leave - MS has changed clubs quite frequently throughout his career, so he's probably not too bothered about a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not. So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG. The reality is that he was preparing for games with what he knew he would have available. If offers came in for Saga, Rasiak and John, I am sure all would have gone. But it looks like we have not had a decent nibble for John so he will end up remaining by default, so now JP can make use of him. Same thing with Kelvin, but they all accepted pretty early we had no chance with that one. Rasiak wanted to stay and it was not a question of attitude, only of finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokingFun Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 As I said steve, Saga's move annoyed me more, Rasiak coming on top of that so quickly is just the thin end of the wedge. You do not seem to understand even now that we are skint and need to reduce our costs significantly and therefore Saga, Rasiak and Skacel all have to be moved on. Whether this is down to mis-management by Wilde, Hone or Crouch who all seem to have sanctioned big money deals at various stages is largely irrelevant as blaming people does not turn back the clock. What Lowe is doing now is ensuring action is taken to stop our freefall toward administration. It is what i call essential maintenance and it makes sense because the only other option is gambling with our future and we have already tried and failed with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 So Rasiak goes to Watford. Next week some team tables an offer for Stern. Tell me, what do you think Lowe would do ? I think he'd turn over in bed, and whisper across the pillow to Sir Clive Woodward: 'I've got rid of another one, pet.' Sir Clive would then get on with some elite dreaming, aided by the best sport science known to man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 I think he'd turn over in bed, and whisper across the pillow to Sir Clive Woodward: 'I've got rid of another one, pet.' Sir Clive would then get on with some elite dreaming, aided by the best sport science known to man. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 i think he'd turn over in bed, and whisper across the pillow to sir clive woodward: 'i've got rid of another one, pet.' sir clive would then get on with some elite dreaming, aided by the best sport science known to man. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Must be difficult running an established football club into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 I suspect a number of factors have come into the decision to let Saga move to Denmark. It's probably been a straight choice between him and BWP, and the following have been taken into account: 1. Wages - MS probably slightly higher than BWP 2. Last season's record - 8 goals for BWP, only 3 for MS 3. Willingness to leave - MS has changed clubs quite frequently throughout his career, so he's probably not too bothered about a change For me, those reasons are all tenuous. They are too marginal to be real justifications. OK, point 2 is a fact, but I estimate that BWP had probably many more appearances. I cannot forget how many times BWP choked in one-on-ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 You do not seem to understand even now that we are skint and need to reduce our costs significantly and therefore Saga, Rasiak and Skacel all have to be moved on. Whether this is down to mis-management by Wilde, Hone or Crouch who all seem to have sanctioned big money deals at various stages is largely irrelevant as blaming people does not turn back the clock. What Lowe is doing now is ensuring action is taken to stop our freefall toward administration. It is what i call essential maintenance and it makes sense because the only other option is gambling with our future and we have already tried and failed with that! I'll tell you what is gambling with our future : - Trying a management system that has already FAILED at least twice before at your own hands. - Relying on a bunch of teenagers to make the grade whilst giving away any established experienced players you have, with little attempt to integrate their talents - Employing a management team with little feel for the English CCC game To me, THOSE are real risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokingFun Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 I'll tell you what is gambling with our future : - Trying a management system that has already FAILED at least twice before at your own hands. - Relying on a bunch of teenagers to make the grade whilst giving away any established experienced players you have, with little attempt to integrate their talents - Employing a management team with little feel for the English CCC game To me, THOSE are real risks. Agree they are risks but we should wait and see how we go now as there is nowt we can do to influence matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 So Rasiak goes to Watford. Next week some team tables an offer for Stern. Tell me, what do you think Lowe would do ? Perhaps, just perhaps Lowe would have already checked with his head coach and said something like, so now that I have got rid of the lazy **** Rasiak for a decent loan fee and saved about 1 mill GBP in wages as well I guess that means I should keep the other not quite so lazy **** Stern John. Agreed? And JP would say, yes that would be a good idea, John is part of the squad and looks up for the fight. Even Lowe is not so stupid (?) as to sell both main strikers (at least I hope he isn't). Have you considered also that maybe, just maybe getting rid of Saga and Ras may free up enough funds so that we could bring someone already identified as a loan target to fill one of the FB gaps, which would be a good idea. Last season you harped on about no CBs, quite rightly, but for some reason you are missing the important point this season, no FBs. Everything is not quite so black and white as you make out Alps. You make some valid points with your remarks many of which I agree with, but other times your remarks are just inane. I dislike Lowe intensely but I do give him some credit, albeit begrudgingly most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 I'll tell you what is gambling with our future : - Trying a management system that has already FAILED at least twice before at your own hands. - Relying on a bunch of teenagers to make the grade whilst giving away any established experienced players you have, with little attempt to integrate their talents - Employing a management team with little feel for the English CCC game To me, THOSE are real risks. Yes they are. The PROBLEM is I haven't seen an alternative. We are broke, the expenditure vs income is horrific for last year. The alternative "boards" appear to have made the mess Lowe left us with worse. Nobody has bought us or given us 10mil and I and many on here are struggling to find an alternative which is why although we are REALLY p*ssed that Lowe came back we have a grudging acceptance that there isn't really any choice. If we don't stem the losses we bleed to death. We undergo nasty radical surgery and we may survive. The only alternatives we have seen so far have been "should have kept NP", "shouldn't sell players" or simple "abuse" at Lowe for only wanting to protect his investment. Nothing actually creative that gets us out the sh*t. I like you hate it, but I see it as the only hope as I honestly do not believe that we would ever recover from administration. Getting out of it is NOT easy as others have found out. Other than backing Platini or lobbying for changes to the way TV money is allocated I just don't see an alternative.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 It'd be a shame if John was frozen out. He's just had one of the best seasons of his career, so if he then was left out in favour of someone who had never played regularly in competitive games that would probably be it for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintrich Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 He definitely deserves to start tomorrow - his substitute appearance at Exeter changed the game. I'd like to see an attacking line up of: Lallana - CM/AM McGoldrick - RW Holmes - LW John - CF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 It'd be a shame if John was frozen out. He's just had one of the best seasons of his career, so if he then was left out in favour of someone who had never played regularly in competitive games that would probably be it for him. Watching the Exeter game it is quite clear that John is required to play a major part in our game plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 He definitely deserves to start tomorrow - his substitute appearance at Exeter changed the game. I'd like to see an attacking line up of: Lallana - CM/AM McGoldrick - RW Holmes - LW John - CF I think you will get your wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31cc Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Remember the 'rule' that ex-players always score against their old clubs... he has to play! (I won't mention Kevin Philips ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypbl Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Surman is a kid but he has played over 100 games for us, and Gillett & Lallana should have played 20+ games for us last year. I make it that Surman has played 91 times for the first team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 I make it that Surman has played 91 times for the first team Sorry read the figure in an interview with AS on the OS.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjinksie Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 The OS quotes Poortvleit as saying that Stern could start against Birmingham. JP says Stern is 'back in the squad' from which we must conclude that up until this week, he was not. So what has changed. Stern's commitment in training is quoted as a reason, and his performance as sub at Exeter, but the other change could be Rasiak's move to Watford. Maybe that has cleared up who will be the other main striker with DMG. we were a totally different team when he came on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Davis James Perry Svennson Surman McGoldrick Schneiderlin Gillet Lallana Holmes John Would perform really well IMO. Muscle at the back and up front with the option to bring Wotton in if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 I'll tell you what is gambling with our future : - Trying a management system that has already FAILED at least twice before at your own hands. - Relying on a bunch of teenagers to make the grade whilst giving away any established experienced players you have, with little attempt to integrate their talents - Employing a management team with little feel for the English CCC game To me, THOSE are real risks. I agree with you but does Lowe actually have any choice but to offload the top earners if we are to not go bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Rasiak is near enough gone, so John is possibly back in the fold for the moment. They were both items for sale. It's less likely John is the next to be offloaded now. Given that BWP wasn't involved at all at Exeter (so no cup-tied stuff) I'd assume he is the next forward to be offloaded now by choice. 10 mins before the Exeter game was due to kick-off, BWP was in Tesco Ocean Village buying cakes and Grolsch!! I didn't bother speaking to him though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 If it is true that Rasiak is off then I have no doubt that we will keep hold of Stern. Good move too as he fits into our new system much better than GR. excactly. we couldnt get any other striker from this league,with the same potential as Stern for our new formation IMO. he holds the ball up,can score from distance and finish off crosses. I`d have him over Rasiak every day of the week ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcjmcsfc16 Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 WE HAVE OVER 500 TEAMS IN OUR MINI LEAGUE AND HAVING RECIEVED £1,000 LAST YEAR FOR MANAGER OF THE MONTH WE ARE LOOKING FOR MORE TEAMS TO WIN BIGGER THIS SEASON PRIZES WILL BE SPLIT TO THE TOP 50 TEAMS! LEAGUE NAME Mini League Name: The Southerners League PIN: 116920 League Password: 123456789 http://www.dreamteamfc.com/ please pm with any questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 10 mins before the Exeter game was due to kick-off, BWP was in Tesco Ocean Village buying cakes and Grolsch!! I didn't bother speaking to him though Glad to see he is bonding with our new Dutch setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wightman35 Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Yes they are. The PROBLEM is I haven't seen an alternative. We are broke, the expenditure vs income is horrific for last year. The alternative "boards" appear to have made the mess Lowe left us with worse. Nobody has bought us or given us 10mil and I and many on here are struggling to find an alternative which is why although we are REALLY p*ssed that Lowe came back we have a grudging acceptance that there isn't really any choice. If we don't stem the losses we bleed to death. We undergo nasty radical surgery and we may survive. The only alternatives we have seen so far have been "should have kept NP", "shouldn't sell players" or simple "abuse" at Lowe for only wanting to protect his investment. Nothing actually creative that gets us out the sh*t. I like you hate it, but I see it as the only hope as I honestly do not believe that we would ever recover from administration. Getting out of it is NOT easy as others have found out. Other than backing Platini or lobbying for changes to the way TV money is allocated I just don't see an alternative.. Best Post of the week. Thanks Phil! A very good reality check for us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 You do not seem to understand even now that we are skint and need to reduce our costs significantly and therefore Saga, Rasiak and Skacel all have to be moved on. Whether this is down to mis-management by Wilde, Hone or Crouch who all seem to have sanctioned big money deals at various stages is largely irrelevant as blaming people does not turn back the clock. What Lowe is doing now is ensuring action is taken to stop our freefall toward administration. It is what i call essential maintenance and it makes sense because the only other option is gambling with our future and we have already tried and failed with that! Unfortunately as many times as you try to explain to Alpine about this it just seems to go through one ear and straight out of the other and according to him it's all nasty Lowes fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 15 August, 2008 Share Posted 15 August, 2008 Sorry read the figure in an interview with AS on the OS.... Before this season started he had played 80 times with another 18 sub appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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