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Sam Wallace Telegraph article on Saints


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Nice read. Unlikely to stop saps on this forum blubbering like babies about why we're not further up the net spend league.

 

we don't need to spend lots of money when we can pick up good prospects for reasonable fees. It's a fallacy to assume big money means big success.

Just look at the money paid out on bad moves like; Liverpool's deals with Torres and Carroll ....and last season's Man.U. fiasco with Di Maria.

 

Historically, many of our most expensive buys have been disasters ...whereas some others.....bought for relatively modest sums have become almost legendary.

Now Mane's £12 million signing looks " a real killing " despite the negative response he got in his early games when (someone) on here - compared him to Ali Dia.

 

Interesting point (in article) stating that Osvaldo was outside the club's normal strategy for signing players, and maybe that deal was made to placate Pochettino - who must have thought he could " tame " the wayward Dani, and perhaps Nicola Cortese OK'd the deal on that basis (?). Bad judgement from both men.

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Historically, many of our most expensive buys have been disasters

 

Have they?

 

Since 2012 when Saints signed Jay Rodriguez for £7m and broke the 11 year transfer record set by Rory Delap (£4m in 2001) they have signed the following players for £7m+

 

Succeses at Saints

 

Rodriguez £7m

Wanyama £12.5m

Pelle £8m

Long £12m

Bertrand £10m

Lovren £8.5m

Tadic £11m

Mane £11m

Forster £10m

 

Recent signings

 

Clasie £8m

van Dijk £13m

​I think both Clasie and van Dijk will end up green

 

Failures

 

Ramirez £12m

Osvaldo £13m

 

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You seem to have missed the word "historically". Usually this means players like Delgado, McLaughlin, even Delap himself. You could also add Forren.

Why would you add Forren? He cost at best four million, a decade after we signed Delap.

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Long isn't a success for 12 million.

 

People keep bringing up Long's price of £12m but for a domestic transfer it isn't out of place. If it was 2004 then £12m would be a lot of money. But it isn't... its 2015 and £12m is the price you have to pay for a striker like Long in the current market. The English to English club transfer market is at the level where if someone has a good season in the Championship clubs start asking for £10m+, so £12m for Long isn't out of place. It will get even more inflated with the new TV deal from 2016 onwards.

 

You seem to have missed the word "historically". Usually this means players like Delgado, McLaughlin, even Delap himself. You could also add Forren.

 

3 years ago is still historic. I don't see how "big" Saints transfers before the Liebherr takeover are particulary relevant. We have new structures and scouting/recruitment systems in place and of the thirteen £7m or more deals Saints have done only Ramirez and Osvaldo haven't worked out.

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Have they?

Failures

 

[color=#ff0000

]Ramirez £12m

Osvaldo £13m [/color]

 

.......being a little "longer in the tooth" than many of the forum..I was thinking back a little longer (historically speaking) ...

 

with the obvious exceptions of those two you mentioned above, the majority of recent purchases have been money well spent....

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Have they?

 

Since 2012 when Saints signed Jay Rodriguez for £7m and broke the 11 year transfer record set by Rory Delap (£4m in 2001) they have signed the following players for £7m+

 

Succeses at Saints

 

Rodriguez £7m

Wanyama £12.5m

Pelle £8m

Long £12m

Bertrand £10m

Lovren £8.5m

Tadic £11m

Mane £11m

Forster £10m

 

Recent signings

 

Clasie £8m

van Dijk £13m

​I think both Clasie and van Dijk will end up green

 

Failures

 

Ramirez £12m

Osvaldo £13m

 

 

How has Long at £12m been a successful signing?

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You seem to have missed the word "historically".

 

Usually this means players like Delgado, McLaughlin, even Delap himself. You could also add Forren.

 

1) I did ........

 

2) It does ....

 

there was a time when £4 million meant ..a LOT of money, and it wasn't so long ago many on here were complaining that £7 million for Rodriguez was ridiculous.

 

(Times change and - I am told ) - my (humble) house is worth is now worth twice what it was 10 years ago.....)

 

Shane Long (in his defence) didn't decide on his own fee. We wanted experienced back-up for Pelle and were prepared to offer Hull a price they couldn't refuse.

 

Lovren was only a good deal - after we later sold him for £20 million.

Fonte made him look better than he really was, and if he performed for us (as he has for Liverpool) then people would be up in arms......

Edited by david in sweden
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Long average in that be has done pretty much what he has at every club..

 

.....he rarely started games last season, but featured in many of them as an oncoming sub..

 

10 goals last season, 4 so far this. In every game where he scored - we won (except 1 other) which was drawn......

or putting it another way....we have never lost a game when he has scored....

 

The club wanted cover for (then new signing Pelle).....and Hull couldn't refuse a £12 million offer for a player ....who only cost them £6 million.

Therefore it's somewhat unfair to classify him as a £12 million failure, as he didn't fix his own transfer fee, but in the light of other signings it may seem that way.

However, if you compare his input with that of Osvaldo and Gaston Ramirez (for a similar fee) ....I'd say he wasn't a waste of money.

 

Few people would suggest that we drop Pelle or Tadic in order to play him instead, but Koeman has said that we need TWO players for every position in the squad, and we just about have that and it's hardly his fault that he isn't picked from the start. He's usually on the bench, and does as he is asked.

 

He does well as an oncoming sub. (as most Irish folk will testify) so we ought to accept that he can DAJFU - when needed. End of .

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Am I the only saints fan that are now finding these articles just a bit tedious, having been churned out ad nauseam for the best part of 9 months now.

 

They are just plagiarised vanity puff pieces by wannabe investigative sports journos. Nothing new whatsoever.

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Long average in that be has done pretty much what he has at every club.

 

Given the choice again I am sure Saints would spend that money elsewhere!

 

Certainly cannot be described as a success with any credibility.

 

Are you saying MLG is wrong?

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Depends what constitutes a success, if you go by statistics - games started, goals scored probably not. If you enjoy watching him play and he adds to your afternoon's entertainment then yes.If not no.

His first half against Villa last season built up a lot of credit with me.

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Perhaps both, but without input from Reed and the scouting team?

 

 

we were trying to climb the mountain to the Prem., and before we had the " Black Box " I think that Cortese must have had a big say in who we bought in.

Maybe not so difficult to find " fairly-good " players who could cut it in L1 .......Papa Weigo, Guly ..later Boruc ...all seemed to have come from Cortese's Italian contacts....

not sure how much input /influence Les might had on those, but perhaps he had more to do with the signings of Antonio and Barnard who looked good - in retrospect.

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Have they?

 

Since 2012 when Saints signed Jay Rodriguez for £7m and broke the 11 year transfer record set by Rory Delap (£4m in 2001) they have signed the following players for £7m+

 

Succeses at Saints

 

Rodriguez £7m

Wanyama £12.5m

Pelle £8m

Long £12m

Bertrand £10m

Lovren £8.5m

Tadic £11m

Mane £11m

Forster £10m

 

Recent signings

 

Clasie £8m

van Dijk £13m

​I think both Clasie and van Dijk will end up green

 

Failures

 

Ramirez £12m

Osvaldo £13m

 

 

What's the definition of success ?

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.......being a little "longer in the tooth" than many of the forum..I was thinking back a little longer (historically speaking) ...

 

with the obvious exceptions of those two you mentioned above, the majority of recent purchases have been money well spent....

 

And we sold Martin Chivers too cheaply....

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I enjoyed that article and all the others that cast our club in such a good light, but there's something even more satisfying about this one, given the source:

 

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/10/fsg-witness-merits-southampton-model-liverpool-look-progress/

 

Sure, we may not be on the same planet as Liverpool in terms of size and stature, but there is an implication behind the article that the route to success may involve much more than just throwing money around - even for a club like Liverpool.

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They are just plagiarised vanity puff pieces by wannabe investigative sports journos. Nothing new whatsoever.

 

Ahh the vanity puff piece cliche. You left out ' lazy'

Sam Wallace is such a wannabe. He'll be impressed if you tell him he wrote a puff piece on Twitter although you may not be as original as you might think.

 

There are only so many ways you can write about football and limited based on what actually happens which is often pretty much known to everyone. Lack of coverage would surely annoy you more and not sure how you could put a different angle on the club now that hasn't been done already.

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And we sold Martin Chivers too cheaply....

 

YES....we rarely sold players for more than tea money in that era, and Ted Bates R.I.P. (said in interview) Chivers was the only player he regretted having to sell.

 

the worst part was taking Frank Saul in part-ex. He was famous for his Cup Final goal, but vastly over-rated and definitely over-priced IMO.

 

not the first.... or last time ....Spurs scre*ed us in a transfer deal.

Edited by david in sweden
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