Mr X Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 It seems other clubs are not prepared to accept poor results, yet we just seem to accept it and say well theres nothing we as fans can do about it, can't afford a replacement ect. Why is that? I don't blame Jan for being appointed in a job he wasn't fit for, but then I guess if you accept the job you have to realise you need to deliver results so he isn't completely exempt from blame. Just wondering, Is there any other teams that won't sack their manager under any circumstaces? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 I think we're the only one Revolutionary enough to persevere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 It seems other clubs are not prepared to accept poor results, yet we just seem to accept it and say well theres nothing we as fans can do about it, can't afford a replacement ect. Why is that? I don't blame Jan for being appointed in a job he wasn't fit for, but then I guess if you accept the job you have to realise you need to deliver results so he isn't completely exempt from blame. Just wondering, Is there any other teams that won't sack their manager under any circumstaces? :confused: Makes you proud doesn't it. Sort of a throw back to the Ted Bates era when he was given time to build things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 5 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 January, 2009 I think we're the only one Revolutionary enough to persevere. Is that a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Is that a good thing? Probably not. It's kind of vital that the manager is competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvictaSaint Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Makes you proud doesn't it. Sort of a throw back to the Ted Bates era when he was given time to build things. The single and most crucial difference being that Ted knew what he was doing, had a plan and could adapt where necessary; all of which qualities have been proven to be sadly lacking from the current incumbent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Makes you proud doesn't it. Sort of a throw back to the Ted Bates era when he was given time to build things. Or even a throw back to the Wigley era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Just wondering, Is there any other teams that won't sack their manager under any circumstaces? :confused: Dario Gradi. Mind you, he took Crewe Alexandra upward too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 While I'm not for a minute casting him in the same league, if managers were sacked after six months of dodgy performances we would all have been asking Alex who, Lawrie who, who Curbishley, who Allerdyce and so on... The key is, can you see evidence that they know what they're doing. Interesting that Phil Parkinson has a much worse record than Jan but has just been given a contract full-time. Short term is not the only criteria. (And again, this is neither for nor against Jan, just a statement). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 5 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 January, 2009 While I'm not for a minute casting him in the same league, if managers were sacked after six months of dodgy performances we would all have been asking Alex who, Lawrie who, who Curbishley, who Allerdyce and so on... The key is, can you see evidence that they know what they're doing. Interesting that Phil Parkinson has a much worse record than Jan but has just been given a contract full-time. Short term is not the only criteria. (And again, this is neither for nor against Jan, just a statement). This is the deciding factor, So far I haven't seen any evidence of consistent managerials skills from Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 While I'm not for a minute casting him in the same league, if managers were sacked after six months of dodgy performances we would all have been asking Alex who, Lawrie who, who Curbishley, who Allerdyce and so on... The key is, can you see evidence that they know what they're doing. Interesting that Phil Parkinson has a much worse record than Jan but has just been given a contract full-time. Short term is not the only criteria. (And again, this is neither for nor against Jan, just a statement). I fully agree with this. If his task is purely polishing a turd then you can excuse poor results. Unfortunately we just get worse and worse, our players don't appear to be prepared for matches properly, our team is really rather odd, the manager does not appear to know what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 I still find it hard to judge him fairly due to our bizarre circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 I still find it hard to judge him fairly due to our bizarre circumstances Of course. Only the really hard bastards would overly criticise JP. He is a good coach who is up sh!t creek without a paddle, and the RNLI are having their annual knees-up. Anyone would have a tough time in his position, even Ferguson. Mind you, Ferguson would have hairdryer-ed Lowe by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 I still find it hard to judge him fairly due to our bizarre circumstances For once Nickerless, I kind of agree. Early in the season you could see our team were well organised and played well with some excellent results and some superb football that did not get the results it deserved. Against QPR for example, we played really well for a team drubbed 4-1. We were undone by naivety. The problem is, our players still make naive mistakes and they lack the energy, and passion of earlier in the season which often compensated for it. Now, it's easy to blame JP for this. But truthfully, these are kids not used to losing - most of them They played in a very succesful Academy side that swept all before them. Or simply didn't play first team football at all!!!! Now they're losing. And they're tired and they've losing belief and confidence. They don't know how to deal with this a lot of them. That's why Cork looked so good - he was relegated with S****horpe!!!! We can all blame Jan and think if we replace him things will turn - I wonder. Jan might be holding the bunsen burner but if he's being asked to make gold from lead it doesn't matter who holds it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 5 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 January, 2009 I still find it hard to judge him fairly due to our bizarre circumstances You appoint the best man at the time for the job. Lowe clearly knew we were gonna be relying on youth and cheap players therefore it would have made sense to get get a proven 'motivator' someone who can get the best out of players. I just don't see that the players look up to Jan in any way unfortunately and you have to ask why that is? He seems blind to the fact his system isn't working. Wotton allegedly told Jan his system wasn't working and look where that got him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 We can't sack the manager because it exposes his appointee as not having the brains he was born with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Jan is intrinsically linked to Lowe. Who would do better then him with what we have got, would like to see what JP is like with a real team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 While I'm not for a minute casting him in the same league, if managers were sacked after six months of dodgy performances we would all have been asking Alex who, Lawrie who, who Curbishley, who Allerdyce and so on.... With all due respect, I would probably put Jan in the same category as Gray & Wigley etc etc etc who should never have got the job in the first place. There is nothing to suggest we are improving, in fact I would argue exactly the opposite having not won in 10 games or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 With all due respect, I would probably put Jan in the same category as Gray & Wigley etc etc etc who should never have got the job in the first place. There is nothing to suggest we are improving, in fact I would argue exactly the opposite having not won in 10 games or so. Would be an interesting comparison to see how the results of those managers compared. But like I said, the key is can you (the management) see things that lead you to believe the manager is capable. For me, I would love Jan to have worked out because it was so full of promise. We looked really sharp pre-season just lacking a finisher. Now we just look lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 If Lowe sacked Portaloo it'd be an admission that he got it wrong again and is clueless. We'll go down without a fight and Lowe will blame everyone bar himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Ironic isn't it. The one time we want Lowe to sack the manager... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Ironic isn't it. The one time we want Lowe to sack the manager... Hahahahah - post of the day. Comedy gold. Top man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Ironic isn't it. The one time we want Lowe to sack the manager... Lowe doesn't sack managers. They leave by mutual consent with a NDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Ironic isn't it. The one time we want Lowe to sack the manager... I don't know about that. There were calls for Wigley and Gray to go as well (although he did capitulate in the end)!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 How would anyone know that if he hadn't been given time to prove it? Are we suggesting managers have to be an instant success in order to be given a chance in the long term? Hope no-one on here ever moaned about a manager not showing loyalty and leaving us and there's bugger all respect the other way around. JP has one of the toughest jobs in this league, IMO the very toughest. Yet the brainless section are always most vocal and once again it'll be calls for management change. If he'd had 5 million quid and a decent squad I'd understand, although I still don't think change solves everything, it's very much a case by case basis. Just wish some small percentage of fans could for once vaguely understand the concept of long term. adrian you are usually sensible..but lately, your defence for jan and co is getting silly (imo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Just wish some small percentage of fans could for once vaguely understand the concept of long term. I saw Nigel Pearson as a man capable of being at Saints long term. So did the vast majority of fans. Only Rupert thought differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 How would anyone know that if he hadn't been given time to prove it? Are we suggesting managers have to be an instant success in order to be given a chance in the long term? Hope no-one on here ever moaned about a manager not showing loyalty and leaving us and there's bugger all respect the other way around. JP has one of the toughest jobs in this league, IMO the very toughest. Yet the brainless section are always most vocal and once again it'll be calls for management change. If he'd had 5 million quid and a decent squad I'd understand, although I still don't think change solves everything, it's very much a case by case basis. Just wish some small percentage of fans could for once vaguely understand the concept of long term. Did you post something similar in the Autumn of 2004???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 How would anyone know that if he hadn't been given time to prove it? Are we suggesting managers have to be an instant success in order to be given a chance in the long term? Hope no-one on here ever moaned about a manager not showing loyalty and leaving us and there's bugger all respect the other way around. JP has one of the toughest jobs in this league, IMO the very toughest. Yet the brainless section are always most vocal and once again it'll be calls for management change. If he'd had 5 million quid and a decent squad I'd understand, although I still don't think change solves everything, it's very much a case by case basis. Just wish some small percentage of fans could for once vaguely understand the concept of long term. You ignored my post last night and probably will again but here goes - in the last 10 years can you remind me of what was long term under loveable old rosey cheeks? How the hell can you talk about stability with his record? None of it was his fault I suppose in which case he has been bloody unlucky to have 10 walk out on him for spiritual homes. I call for management change when I see a bloke drowning and a fish out of water or one like Burley who had no interest in being here. None so blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 You ignored my post last night and probably will again but here goes - in the last 10 years can you remind me of what was long term under loveable old rosey cheeks? How the hell can you talk about stability with his record? None of it was his fault I suppose in which case he has been bloody unlucky to have 10 walk out on him for spiritual homes. I call for management change when I see a bloke drowning and a fish out of water or one like Burley who had no interest in being here. None so blind. That, sir, is a bloody valid point that many have overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 I actually feel quite sorry for JP. It must be dreadful, turning up for work every day, knowing you're not up to the job / not being allowed to be up to the job. His confidence and self-esteem must be as low as that of the boys whose careers are being inexoribly ruined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsacar saint Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Does any Saints fan expect that pompous, arrogant , prat Lowe to admit he made [ yet another] mistake, and sack the manager.[ Yes , and I do feel sorry for the manager, who is a thoroughly decent man, but is probably out of his depth]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1Minus10 Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 How would anyone know that if he hadn't been given time to prove it? Are we suggesting managers have to be an instant success in order to be given a chance in the long term? Hope no-one on here ever moaned about a manager not showing loyalty and leaving us and there's bugger all respect the other way around. JP has one of the toughest jobs in this league, IMO the very toughest. Yet the brainless section are always most vocal and once again it'll be calls for management change. If he'd had 5 million quid and a decent squad I'd understand, although I still don't think change solves everything, it's very much a case by case basis. Just wish some small percentage of fans could for once vaguely understand the concept of long term. If I had one question for Lowe it would be this so I'll ask you the same thing. "Is it acceptable in the grand, long term scheme of things for Saints to be relegated to League 1 this season?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 5 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 January, 2009 I actually feel quite sorry for JP. It must be dreadful, turning up for work every day, knowing you're not up to the job / not being allowed to be up to the job. His confidence and self-esteem must be as low as that of the boys whose careers are being inexoribly ruined. JP has got it cushty he knows damm well that its going to be very hard for Lowe to sack him, he has Job security thats rare these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 JP has got it cushty he knows damm well that its going to be very hard for Lowe to sack him, he has Job security thats rare these days Yes I guess that might be the case, but his CV's not going to look so hot, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 5 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Yes I guess that might be the case, but his CV's not going to look so hot, is it? Did it look good before then? (not being sarcastic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc6mufc3 Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Funny isn't it but I won't us to lose (as I did back in November) so we can change the manager. We still have him and we are in a worse position now. What will it take to get rid of him? I even get the impression that we could be bottom and he'll still be there and yet you have managers like Pardew & Jewell who were sacked and they were above us in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Whatever happens at least he has had time in the job. Not one of these 2 or 3 month appointments we keep seeing. He has had a full pre-season and has had plenty of players coming in. Had a few go out but Rasiak and Saga were not here to begin with. John and Dyer were not in his plans aparently. I think 8 months at a club is more then enough to see what someone can do. And after watching us struggle against ****e teams in pre-season i would say we have not progressed 1 bit in those 8 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 5 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Whatever happens at least he has had time in the job. Not one of these 2 or 3 month appointments we keep seeing. He has had a full pre-season and has had plenty of players coming in. Had a few go out but Rasiak and Saga were not here to begin with. John and Dyer were not in his plans aparently. I think 8 months at a club is more then enough to see what someone can do. And after watching us struggle against ****e teams in pre-season i would say we have not progressed 1 bit in those 8 months. Why would a player who's goals effectively kept us up last season not be in his plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supaimpy_returns Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 erm isn't it Wildes job as football chairman to sack Jan?, the pressure needs to be applied to Wilde, we need an investigative journo to actually get to Wilde and get a proper interview out of him and hopefully tip him over and out of this club taking rosy cheeks with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 5 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Wilde the ever silent chairman....... who does a runner on AGM day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Just wish some small percentage of fans could for once vaguely understand the concept of long term. Most people understand the concept of long term. Its just that having a concept of long term is of no use if long term does not exist. When the long term coach presides over relegation and the probably inevitable administration that will follow, the long term strategy is of no use whatsoever. In order to impelement a long term strategy you need to be absolutel sure that the people you put in charge are at least competent. There was no indication that JP met this basic criterion, sadly. Having a modicum of success in the Dutch lower leagues really does not provide a valid indicator of competency in the second tier of the best and most competitive football league set up in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Most people understand the concept of long term. Its just that having a concept of long term is of no use if long term does not exist. When the long term coach presides over relegation and the probably inevitable administration that will follow, the long term strategy is of no use whatsoever. In order to impelement a long term strategy you need to be absolutel sure that the people you put in charge are at least competent. There was no indication that JP met this basic criterion, sadly. Having a modicum of success in the Dutch lower leagues really does not provide a valid indicator of competency in the second tier of the best and most competitive football league set up in the world. ... and soon to be third tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Makes you proud doesn't it. Sort of a throw back to the Ted Bates era when he was given time to build things. Or when McMenemy was given time after relegation to build things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Or when McMenemy was given time after relegation to build things.... Lost on many a supporter unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 Lowe doesn't sack managers. They leave by mutual consent with a NDA. Only at Southampton does this happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 5 January, 2009 Share Posted 5 January, 2009 If I had one question for Lowe it would be this so I'll ask you the same thing. "Is it acceptable in the grand, long term scheme of things for Saints to be relegated to League 1 this season?" I'm pretty sure that even Lowe would agree it is not acceptable to be relegated at any point in life not just this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 January, 2009 Share Posted 6 January, 2009 Or when McMenemy was given time after relegation to build things.... Does anybody really believe that Poortvliet can turn things around, given another season or two? I've seen nothing so far to convince me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 6 January, 2009 Share Posted 6 January, 2009 Lost on many a supporter unfortunately. Totally different circumstances and a different era - he didn't have a boardroom circus going on around him for starters nor was the club on the brink of administration. Coupled with that he was a competent manager/coach/motivator/tactician - I am afraid I do not think JP fits any of these descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 6 January, 2009 Share Posted 6 January, 2009 The one thing you can't blame Lowe for is being reluctant to change managers when it suits. 10 in 10 years says more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 6 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 6 January, 2009 The one thing you can't blame Lowe for is being reluctant to change managers when it suits. 10 in 10 years says more than anything. Is that why he won't make it 11 in 11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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