Les Reed and the PR machine at SFC

[Sour Mash]

I don't think Les has 'played a good hand' as such, but I do agree with your very good post that Everton's interest this summer could actually be a very good for us as there was a chance that Koeman would see out his contract but not sign another creating the dead duck scenario you describe.

 

Agreed. I'm gutted Koeman is going, but it does solve a fair few problems for us and there's always been the hint that Reed and Koeman don't get on entirely as well.

 

It obviously all boils down to how good the replacement is and how quickly they settle.

[CB Fry]

Except we've improved both seasons since he ****ed off.

I believe this is a lucky fluke and dopey useless Les Reed has had nothing to with it. Well according to utter saps on here and they're definitely right.

[Batman]

Agreed. I'm gutted Koeman is going, but it does solve a fair few problems for us and there's always been the hint that Reed and Koeman don't get on entirely as well.

 

It obviously all boils down to how good the replacement is and how quickly they settle.

 

the press speculation all season should RK stay for 1 more year would have been horrendous

[CB Fry]

horse-****

are we the bestest ever to finish 8th, 7th and 6th?

Which other club ours size has achieved what we have over three seasons?

 

So yeah at our size we probably are the bestest ever. Haven't we done well?

[Batman]

Which other club ours size has achieved what we have over three seasons?

 

So yeah at our size we probably are the bestest ever. Haven't we done well?

 

you are on one at the mo, arent you

[angelman]

Although Koeman is a ****

 

No other club consistently loses it key personnel like we now do

 

It just does not happen.

 

There has to be an element of the clubs doing.

 

And why do you think that is? Are people so blind to reality that they cannot work it out????

 

Southampton is a small/mid sized provincial football club, which in comparison to other clubs in the league is relatively poor. Those that are richer than us in the league this season.....

 

Arsenal, Spurs, Man C, Man U, West Ham, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Sunderland, Newcastle, Aston Villa. We might be on a par with Leicester, Stoke and some others.

 

Maybe richness is subjective but I think that the above list is pretty spot on as to who is richer than us - would you agree with that? Now let's look at some of those that have left inc RK.

 

RK - he may come out with all sorts of reasons (no doubt ambition will be one, but as our ambition is to get top 4, I don't see how that is different from Everton), there is the fact that he was offered more money by a richer club

 

Clyne - now he was in his last year of a contract and a richer club offered to massively increase his wages, which we could not compete with. He wasn't going to renew, so common business practice is to cash in rather than let the contract run down to let him go on a free. Wanyama is the same.

 

Schneiderlin - he had 2 years left, but was unhappy and didn't want to play as he wanted to go to a club that could massively increase his wages. Lovren and Lallana were similar in not wanting to play for us any more, but instead going to a team they thought could offer them CL and much bigger wages.

 

Chambers - a youngster who didn't see his future at SFC (ironic if he comes back), went to a much richer club who knock around the CL every year and who massively increased his wages.

 

So what's the common theme? It seems to be two things.

 

One is people going to much bigger clubs and being remunerated at a level we cannot compete with. I know that everyone realises this, but when people do actually leave, this seems to be forgotten, which is really rather curious. Southampton is what it is - if we want to be a well run club, then we cannot throw millions and millions at everyone. Sure the commercial side of the club could bring in more, but that is being addressed after being wholly abandoned by Cortese.

 

The second thing is ambition. A lot of those leaving state European football (or Champions League) as being the reason for leaving. Well if you ask the hierarchy at SFC what their ambition is, what do you think you will be told? That they'll be happy with 17th??? FFS we have just recently returned to the PL finishing 14th, 8th, 7th and 6th. We really have no right to have expected 3 top 8 finishes. In fact we would now be viewed as having a poor season if we finished bottom half. Why is that? We have waltzed in to the PL and established ourselves in the top half (that is if you can take 3 seasons as establishing yourself). People just need to think about that. Take out the big 6 or 7 teams and really think where we are. Or do people expect us to be able to financially compete with Liverpool and Man Utd, or even Everton for that matter?

 

Then there is a third thing. The prestige of the clubs that they move to. History is history and we can't change that. We have ours and it isn't littered with honours. The prestige of playing for certain clubs is bigger than others, but as a provincial club such as ours, we are what we are. The board can't change that, so no point criticising them for that. MX5 vs Ferrari.

 

I know that football supporters have unrealistic expectations of their club - it's the nature of being a fan. But really, look at the club and the position it is in and realise what a good job the board has done. I hate to use the term "punching above our weight" but we are. And when that happens, those that you are punching with can and will punch you harder than you can cope with and you will not be able to defend yourself against them. Too many people on here need to get things back into perspective.

[Chez]

horse-****

are we the bestest ever to finish 8th, 7th and 6th?

 

No idea what you are talking about, but a provincial club with young talent will always have it picked off. Have three or four outstanding players all at one time and all three or four will be targeted by the bigger fish. That is the way of the world. It's called a football pyramid and we are no where near the top. Whilst you continue to ignore that fact you will always be on here moaning at about players and managers going.

[Batman]

No idea what you are talking about, but a provincial club with young talent will always have it picked off. Have three or four outstanding players all at one time and all three or four will be targeted by the bigger fish. That is the way of the world. It's called a football pyramid and we are no where near the top. Whilst you continue to ignore that fact you will always be on here moaning at about players and managers going.

 

what the hell is a 'provincial' club in the premier league era?

[alpine_saint]

No idea what you are talking about, but a provincial club with young talent will always have it picked off. Have three or four outstanding players all at one time and all three or four will be targeted by the bigger fish. That is the way of the world. It's called a football pyramid and we are no where near the top. Whilst you continue to ignore that fact you will always be on here moaning at about players and managers going.

 

Whats wrong with that ? Its called AMBITION, and Leicester City have stuck a big fat middle digit up at the football pyramid this season.

[Chez]

And why do you think that is? Are people so blind to reality that they cannot work it out????

 

Southampton is a small/mid sized provincial football club, which in comparison to other clubs in the league is relatively poor. Those that are richer than us in the league this season.....

 

Arsenal, Spurs, Man C, Man U, West Ham, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Sunderland, Newcastle, Aston Villa. We might be on a par with Leicester, Stoke and some others.

 

Maybe richness is subjective but I think that the above list is pretty spot on as to who is richer than us - would you agree with that? Now let's look at some of those that have left inc RK.

 

RK - he may come out with all sorts of reasons (no doubt ambition will be one, but as our ambition is to get top 4, I don't see how that is different from Everton), there is the fact that he was offered more money by a richer club

 

Clyne - now he was in his last year of a contract and a richer club offered to massively increase his wages, which we could not compete with. He wasn't going to renew, so common business practice is to cash in rather than let the contract run down to let him go on a free. Wanyama is the same.

 

Schneiderlin - he had 2 years left, but was unhappy and didn't want to play as he wanted to go to a club that could massively increase his wages. Lovren and Lallana were similar in not wanting to play for us any more, but instead going to a team they thought could offer them CL and much bigger wages.

 

Chambers - a youngster who didn't see his future at SFC (ironic if he comes back), went to a much richer club who knock around the CL every year and who massively increased his wages.

 

So what's the common theme? It seems to be two things.

 

One is people going to much bigger clubs and being remunerated at a level we cannot compete with. I know that everyone realises this, but when people do actually leave, this seems to be forgotten, which is really rather curious. Southampton is what it is - if we want to be a well run club, then we cannot throw millions and millions at everyone. Sure the commercial side of the club could bring in more, but that is being addressed after being wholly abandoned by Cortese.

 

The second thing is ambition. A lot of those leaving state European football (or Champions League) as being the reason for leaving. Well if you ask the hierarchy at SFC what their ambition is, what do you think you will be told? That they'll be happy with 17th??? FFS we have just recently returned to the PL finishing 14th, 8th, 7th and 6th. We really have no right to have expected 3 top 8 finishes. In fact we would now be viewed as having a poor season if we finished bottom half. Why is that? We have waltzed in to the PL and established ourselves in the top half (that is if you can take 3 seasons as establishing yourself). People just need to think about that. Take out the big 6 or 7 teams and really think where we are. Or do people expect us to be able to financially compete with Liverpool and Man Utd, or even Everton for that matter?

 

Then there is a third thing. The prestige of the clubs that they move to. History is history and we can't change that. We have ours and it isn't littered with honours. The prestige of playing for certain clubs is bigger than others, but as a provincial club such as ours, we are what we are. The board can't change that, so no point criticising them for that. MX5 vs Ferrari.

 

I know that football supporters have unrealistic expectations of their club - it's the nature of being a fan. But really, look at the club and the position it is in and realise what a good job the board has done. I hate to use the term "punching above our weight" but we are. And when that happens, those that you are punching with can and will punch you harder than you can cope with and you will not be able to defend yourself against them. Too many people on here need to get things back into perspective.

 

Excellent work sir.

[CB Fry]

you are on one at the mo, arent you

Well done on starting your thread.

[doddisalegend]

Whats wrong with that ? Its called AMBITION, and Leicester City have stuck a big fat middle digit up at the football pyramid this season.

 

 

Would that be the Leicester who are about to lose Vardy to arsenal for 20 million ....that Leicester?

[CB Fry]

what the hell is a 'provincial' club in the premier league era?

Why do you always have to pretend you don't know what provincial means?

[Batman]

Why do you always have to pretend you don't know what provincial means?

 

do tell

[CB Fry]

Whats wrong with that ? Its called AMBITION, and Leicester City have stuck a big fat middle digit up at the football pyramid this season.

How did Leicester demonstrate more ambition than us?

[Chez]

what the hell is a 'provincial' club in the premier league era?

 

I see you are shuffling the argument rather than face the fact we are not at the top of the pyramid, which is why players leave...

 

By provincial I guess I mean a club that isn't one of the big financial and historical powerhouses, one not at the top table, one that will have players bought from them by bigger prem sides.

[Batman]

I see you are shuffling the argument rather than face the fact we are not at the top of the pyramid, which is why players leave...

 

By provincial I guess I mean a club that isn't one of the big financial and historical powerhouses, one not at the top table, one that will have players bought from them by bigger prem sides.

 

provincial means outside of the capital. which most of the clubs in the country are

I know we are not top of the pyramid. we have just dropped a place it seems

 

which is fine. just an oddity that in the last few years we have bucked the trend in losing so many players and staff and still have done very well.

 

looking forward to next year as not too fussed about all this really. I'd quite like to see koeman fail miserably at Everton.

[CB Fry]

By provincial I guess I mean a club that isn't one of the big financial and historical powerhouses, one not at the top table, one that will have players bought from them by bigger prem sides.

 

You're wasting your time. In three days time he'll pretend not to know what it means again.

[Batman]

You're wasting your time. In three days time he'll pretend not to know what it means again.

 

did you sleep alright?

seem to be chomping at the bit this morning

[Chez]

Whats wrong with that ? Its called AMBITION, and Leicester City have stuck a big fat middle digit up at the football pyramid this season.

 

They certainly did, but that is not the same thing.,we are talking about retaining staff. If any of Kante, Vardey and Marez leave this summer it would just prove my point.

 

Despite being at the prem champions and having champions league football Vardey could still leave. If he does does that mean Leicester now lack ambition?

[CB Fry]

did you sleep alright?

seem to be chomping at the bit this morning

I'm enjoying the new dawn.

[Chez]

provincial means outside of the capital. which most of the clubs in the country are

I know we are not top of the pyramid. we have just dropped a place it seems

 

which is fine. just an oddity that in the last few years we have bucked the trend in losing so many players and staff and still have done very well.

 

looking forward to next year as not too fussed about all this really. I'd quite like to see koeman fail miserably at Everton.

 

Very reasonable post. And I agree wholeheartedly with your comments being not too fussed and hoping he fails if he does go. Have a very good day sir.

[Batman]

I'm enjoying the new dawn.

 

This time (unlike when Poch left) I am really looking forward to who we can get in.

 

AvB or De Boer would be very exciting

 

Martinez, Moyes, Hughes.....errr

 

 

I dont like Pelle and have always rated Poch higher than Ronald anyway... lol

[CB Fry]

This time (unlike when Poch left) I am really looking forward to who we can get in.

 

AvB or De Boer would be very exciting

 

Martinez, Moyes, Hughes.....errr

 

 

I dont like Pelle and have always rated Poch higher than Ronald anyway... lol

I think it will be AVB or De Boer. Genuine European experience (and triumph in AVB's case) so will feel like a step up even from RK.

 

And we'll sign some new players who in two years time Manchester United will want to sign.

 

All I want is for us to announce the replacement within, say, 24 hours of RK going. Let's look like we are in control and moving on. Those two both free agents so feels doable.

[Batman]

I think it will be AVB or De Boer. Genuine European experience (and triumph in AVB's case) so will feel like a step up even from RK.

 

And we'll sign some new players who in two years time Manchester United will want to sign.

 

All I want is for us to announce the replacement within, say, 24 hours of RK going. Let's look like we are in control and moving on. Those two both free agents so feels doable.

very true. that would give a degree of Spin (which will please us divs) that the club are all over this

 

weeks of searching and sounding people out, not so much.

 

as you say, should be achievable given two of the apparent stand-outs are free agents.

[Saint Charlie]

Do Boer has been hyping himself for virtually every PL job for the last year so he has probably already flown over and is waiting in Totton incase he gets a call.

 

Shows how highly Everton rate Koeman that they have overlooked those free and available Managers to instead pay quite a bit and get who they want.

 

Hope we do the same, as in get who we really want not just who is a free agent at the time.

[doddisalegend]

Do Boer has been hyping himself for virtually every PL job for the last year so he has probably already flown over and is waiting in Totton incase he gets a call.

 

Shows how highly Everton rate Koeman that they have overlooked those free and available Managers to instead pay quite a bit and get who they want.

 

Hope we do the same, as in get who we really want not just who is a free agent at the time.

 

 

The fact that everton are throwing this much money at Koeman having been rebuffed initially says more about their new backer wanting to look like a billy big bollix than anything else.

[Saint Charlie]

The fact that everton are throwing this much money at Koeman having been rebuffed initially says more about their new backer wanting to look like a billy big bollix than anything else.

It also shows they really wanted Koeman specifically. Which is fair enough, he is a good Manager.

 

Lets get the one we really want.

[the mick channon windmill]

Les Reed has been made to look a fool so many times with his statements. It's hard to believe anything he says anymore to be honest. I think its apparent that Ron didn't get on too well with Les and I can understand that. How can Les with his track record in management look to dictate to Koeman and tell him how he should be doing his job.

 

Also I have never heard Reed say that Ron was doing a good job at Saints. Even when asked a direct question recently about how well he thought Koeman had done last season he waffled on and said he was just part of the system and ended up praising himself for appointing Ron into the job. I don't think Ron will be leaving saints simply because of Les Reed but I think Les has certainly played his part in Ron seemingly not wanting to stay.

 

I wish the club would stop trying to put a positive spin of everything and be more honest. The fans are not stupid and I'm sure the majority have the ability to see through the bull**** that is often put out in press releases to prepare us for bad news as its so transparent.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

This time (unlike when Poch left) I am really looking forward to who we can get in.

 

AvB or De Boer would be very exciting

 

Martinez, Moyes, Hughes.....errr

 

 

I dont like Pelle and have always rated Poch higher than Ronald anyway... lol

 

Psml, and you will rate Koeman if he goes more than his replacement.......

[Saint Charlie]

Les Reed has been made to look a fool so many times with his statements. It's hard to believe anything he says anymore to be honest. I think its apparent that Ron didn't get on too well with Les and I can understand that. How can Les with his track record in management look to dictate to Koeman and tell him how he should be doing his job.

 

Also I have never heard Reed say that Ron was doing a good job at Saints. Even when asked a direct question recently about how well he thought Koeman had done last season he waffled on and said he was just part of the system and ended up praising himself for appointing Ron into the job. I don't think Ron will be leaving saints simply because of Les Reed but I think Les has certainly played his part in Ron seemingly not wanting to stay.

 

I wish the club would stop trying to put a positive spin of everything and be more honest. The fans are not stupid and I'm sure the majority have the ability to see through the bull**** that is often put out in press releases to prepare us for bad news as its so transparent.

By all accounts though Koeman was happy to stay...until someone offered to double his money which is 1.) nigh on impossible to resist and 2.) nothing Reed can control

 

Agree in hindsight its better to say nothing until its done. But then people would slag him for not saying anything. What he said was very likely true at the time. Then Everton's money changed the game.

[a1ex2001]

I don't think Les has 'played a good hand' as such, but I do agree with your very good post that Everton's interest this summer could actually be a very good for us as there was a chance that Koeman would see out his contract but not sign another creating the dead duck scenario you describe.

 

I've said all along if he wasn't going to sign an extension then he should go I never want a repeat of the drift at the end of the strachan reign again it was a disaster for the club so everton's interest is perfect as we can pretend to be all ****ed off and demand a big wedge of compo while really we were going to sack him anyway! Almost as sweet as when the scots 'poached' burley from us!

 

Just for giggles we should refuse to release his brother and put him on gardening leave for a year then at least we will know which one was doing the best work!

 

Ooh forgot #wemelton (that has to be the tag of the summer!)

[captainchris]

Just a question.... how do you know how contract talks progressed between the club and Koeman?

 

They progressed badly - hint Koeman didn't sign!

[corky morris]

Not attractive enough to keep chambers, Clyne, Toby, Shaw, Lovren, Morgan, lallana, lambert, mark Radcliffe Physio, Paul Mitchell, poch and Koeman and it seems wanyama.

 

With the exception of Radcliffe (who left to return to the North where he is from) they all went for the cash & dressed it up as ambition.

When will people realise the ££££ talk. We aint never gonna change it unless we have an owner who wants to do a Man City.

The problem for me is RK saying he was going to honour his contract. My bag, I believed him. There is absolutely no integrity in football. I should stop hoping there is.

[angelman]

They progressed badly - hint Koeman didn't sign!

 

Maybe you have never negotiated in business before. Maybe the talks went well and then another player entered offering things that we couldn't/wouldn't match. Just because we couldn't/wouldn't does NOT mean talks went badly.

[corky morris]

And why do you think that is? Are people so blind to reality that they cannot work it out????

 

Southampton is a small/mid sized provincial football club, which in comparison to other clubs in the league is relatively poor. Those that are richer than us in the league this season.....

 

Arsenal, Spurs, Man C, Man U, West Ham, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton, Sunderland, Newcastle, Aston Villa. We might be on a par with Leicester, Stoke and some others.

 

Maybe richness is subjective but I think that the above list is pretty spot on as to who is richer than us - would you agree with that? Now let's look at some of those that have left inc RK.

 

RK - he may come out with all sorts of reasons (no doubt ambition will be one, but as our ambition is to get top 4, I don't see how that is different from Everton), there is the fact that he was offered more money by a richer club

 

Clyne - now he was in his last year of a contract and a richer club offered to massively increase his wages, which we could not compete with. He wasn't going to renew, so common business practice is to cash in rather than let the contract run down to let him go on a free. Wanyama is the same.

 

Schneiderlin - he had 2 years left, but was unhappy and didn't want to play as he wanted to go to a club that could massively increase his wages. Lovren and Lallana were similar in not wanting to play for us any more, but instead going to a team they thought could offer them CL and much bigger wages.

 

Chambers - a youngster who didn't see his future at SFC (ironic if he comes back), went to a much richer club who knock around the CL every year and who massively increased his wages.

 

So what's the common theme? It seems to be two things.

 

One is people going to much bigger clubs and being remunerated at a level we cannot compete with. I know that everyone realises this, but when people do actually leave, this seems to be forgotten, which is really rather curious. Southampton is what it is - if we want to be a well run club, then we cannot throw millions and millions at everyone. Sure the commercial side of the club could bring in more, but that is being addressed after being wholly abandoned by Cortese.

 

The second thing is ambition. A lot of those leaving state European football (or Champions League) as being the reason for leaving. Well if you ask the hierarchy at SFC what their ambition is, what do you think you will be told? That they'll be happy with 17th??? FFS we have just recently returned to the PL finishing 14th, 8th, 7th and 6th. We really have no right to have expected 3 top 8 finishes. In fact we would now be viewed as having a poor season if we finished bottom half. Why is that? We have waltzed in to the PL and established ourselves in the top half (that is if you can take 3 seasons as establishing yourself). People just need to think about that. Take out the big 6 or 7 teams and really think where we are. Or do people expect us to be able to financially compete with Liverpool and Man Utd, or even Everton for that matter?

 

Then there is a third thing. The prestige of the clubs that they move to. History is history and we can't change that. We have ours and it isn't littered with honours. The prestige of playing for certain clubs is bigger than others, but as a provincial club such as ours, we are what we are. The board can't change that, so no point criticising them for that. MX5 vs Ferrari.

 

I know that football supporters have unrealistic expectations of their club - it's the nature of being a fan. But really, look at the club and the position it is in and realise what a good job the board has done. I hate to use the term "punching above our weight" but we are. And when that happens, those that you are punching with can and will punch you harder than you can cope with and you will not be able to defend yourself against them. Too many people on here need to get things back into perspective.

 

Exactly................

[Saint Charlie]

With the exception of Radcliffe (who left to return to the North where he is from) they all went for the cash & dressed it up as ambition.

When will people realise the ££££ talk. We aint never gonna change it unless we have an owner who wants to do a Man City.

The problem for me is RK saying he was going to honour his contract. My bag, I believed him. There is absolutely no integrity in football. I should stop hoping there is.

Cash and ambition are largely directly linked in football.

[Batman]

I thought the new TV deal was supposed to close the 'gap'

 

business as usual then

[Saints foreva]

 

[eelpie]

Which other club ours size has achieved what we have over three seasons?

 

So yeah at our size we probably are the bestest ever. Haven't we done well?

 

You could also say that at Bournemouth's size no other club has done as well as them over three seasons.

[RedArmy]

I thought the new TV deal was supposed to close the 'gap'

 

business as usual then

Who has said that?

 

Even simpletons like you can work out that there will be no 'closing the gap' when everybody is getting the same slice of the pie.

[Batman]

Who has said that?

 

Even simpletons like you can work out that there will be no 'closing the gap' when everybody is getting the same slice of the pie.

plenty of people on here said it.

[RedArmy]

plenty of people on here said it.

There's a difference between saying if we spend the extra money more wisely that those clubs around us then we can close the gap, than saying we can flat out spend more than them.

[Saint Charlie]

Reed getting a bashing on Solent.

[Batman]

What other newly promoted club has established itself in the top 8 for a few seasons with a lot of exciting players of a decent age and two very good managers with lofty ambitions?

 

There's a reason stoke haven't had to sell every season. You simply cannot be this thick.

 

yet you cry on here for stability. every single year, transfer window

you cry like a little child for stability and here you are having a pop

[Mallagroth]

I am trying to put this tactfully and respectfully but why don't you fck off you pathetic cnt?

 

I thought this was pretty restrained of Whelk to be fair.

[Mallagroth]

All we need now on this thread is Alpine,Dalek and the dickhead who calls everyone pal in a passive aggressive way and we have the full set.

[doddisalegend]

All we need now on this thread is Alpine,Dalek and the dickhead who calls everyone pal in a passive aggressive way and we have the full set.

 

 

???

[eelpie]

The most important thing that management must NOT do now is to agree to negotiate ANY sales of Saints players before a new manager is appointed -like they did two summers ago. This is vital.

[Saint86]

What they need to do is sign all of our key targets before Ronald takes them to Everton with their mega bucks. That is seriously key.