um pahars Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 IMHO, Lowe, as CEO , is in a no win position given our current plight. If he bumbles on with this sorry experiment, then he will be accused by many of indecision, putting his own ego driven experiment before the good of the Club. A failure to act will be seen as many as a sign of weakness, indecision and/or a sign of his ego making the decisions. And if he acts, then it will be a sign that his strategy has failed and there is a very strong case that this would make his position untenable. It would be an admission that the first part of this season has been a waste and we are now playing catch up as a result of going down the wrong path. Therefore, I worry that will come out of this sorry situation will be the worst of all possible options, a compromise, a reshuffle a rearranging of deckchairs. I just don't see how Lowe can sack Jan yet keep his own job, so expect a reshuffle, some platitudes and many fingers being crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Strover Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I was wondering if there are any other CCC clubs that are on the brink of administration before the season completes? It could mean that we lose 10 points but so do about four other teams and if we manage to win a few games (ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha) we could take the hit and still stay up. Now that's what I call clutching at straw......... It's all I've got though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 IMHO, Lowe, as CEO , is in a no win position given our current plight. If he bumbles on with this sorry experiment, then he will be accused by many of indecision, putting his own ego driven experiment before the good of the Club. A failure to act will be seen as many as a sign of weakness, indecision and/or a sign of his ego making the decisions. And if he acts, then it will be a sign that his strategy has failed and there is a very strong case that this would make his position untenable. It would be an admission that the first part of this season has been a waste and we are now playing catch up as a result of going down the wrong path. Therefore, I worry that will come out of this sorry situation will be the worst of all possible options, a compromise, a reshuffle a rearranging of deckchairs. I just don't see how Lowe can sack Jan yet keep his own job, so expect a reshuffle, some platitudes and many fingers being crossed. Do you think Lowe is planning admin as the only way of saving face in his eyes, ie: gets the club on the cheap, becomes sole owner, knight in shining armour and fighter against all odds etc? Please tell me this is more difficult than it appears for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickmick Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Do you think Lowe is planning admin as the only way of saving face in his eyes, ie: gets the club on the cheap, becomes sole owner, knight in shining armour and fighter against all odds etc? Please tell me this is more difficult than it appears for him! Anyone could get the club on the cheap. It could still end up costing someone a couple of million if their are other players, ie: Crouch. If Lowe could afford that much it would show he could have taken up Crouch's £2m offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Do you think Lowe is planning admin as the only way of saving face in his eyes, ie: gets the club on the cheap, becomes sole owner, knight in shining armour and fighter against all odds etc? Please tell me this is more difficult than it appears for him! I cant see that happening If he did buy the club I dont think many would attend matches and the whole enterprise would be a financial disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I believe the club is in a no-win situation which worries me. Because we have got there from a rare-win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Do you think Lowe is planning admin as the only way of saving face in his eyes, ie: gets the club on the cheap, becomes sole owner, knight in shining armour and fighter against all odds etc? Please tell me this is more difficult than it appears for him! I have a suspicion that if Lowe allowed the club to go into administration, the loss of face that he would suffer as a result would hurt his ego too much and also affect his credibility in the financial circles that he also moves in. He would lose the value of his shares too, but if he could buy the club on the cheap, then that would comensate. But on the other hand, there is absolutely no guarantee that he could be the highest bidder for the club from the receivers. Others involved in the club's recent history might also wish to bid, or indeed others might come into the equation who have not so far been involved with the club. So Rupert has no real certainty that he could buy the club on the cheap. And if he did, I for one would never put one penny more into the club's coffers whilst he remained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Perhaps Fullthorpes lot are waiting for admin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I really do not see any validity in the Lowe is doing it to buy the club on the cheap argument. If the club goes into Admin then the "liquidator" has to raise cash to pay off the creditors. So we know that is around 22mil for the mortgage, somewhere between 5 and 8mil for Barclays. Then his fees will add something like a mil, and then there will be the staff payouts for redundancy (yes the company no longer exists they have no jobs) and then the bills for taxes rates etc. Where will they get that money from? Selling everything that can be moved - players, property and the like. How much would we get at auction for all our wonderful sports science equipment? About 50 quid down the car boot sale.... Who will buy a stadium? The only possible people who need one are the Sk*tes - get SMS for 5 mil - bargain. We'll be left looking for out of contract players who want to train on the common every day and change in the municipal changing rooms. Good grief people they would even have to sell THE CATERING EQUIPMENT. (How on EARTH would you get a pre-match or half-time beer then!) The point is that sure there could still be a club, but it will be left with nothing. The debts are too high to cover a Liququidation Sale. Renting the ground from a property speculator or sharing it, no decent players, no land for the Academy players to train on, nothing. So we won't even qualify for Academy status, so that reduces the levl of kids who want to sign for us. Does any sane person really think that running a shell of a club like that is the sort of thing anybody except a totally devoted and wealthy fan would want to do? (ie by our own admissions - not a narcisstic business guru) It could take decades to recover and most of us will lose what has been an important part of our lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965onwards Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 This season has proven to Lowe that many thousands will not go to SMS while he is here. Those numbers will increase if we go into admin and are relegated. Gaining full control will compound this problem for him. This is the last roll of the dice for Lowe,if we go into administration he WILL walk away with his little tail between his legs. Goodbye Roops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 IMHO, Lowe, as CEO , is in a no win position given our current plight. If he bumbles on with this sorry experiment, then he will be accused by many of indecision, putting his own ego driven experiment before the good of the Club. A failure to act will be seen as many as a sign of weakness, indecision and/or a sign of his ego making the decisions. And if he acts, then it will be a sign that his strategy has failed and there is a very strong case that this would make his position untenable. It would be an admission that the first part of this season has been a waste and we are now playing catch up as a result of going down the wrong path. Therefore, I worry that will come out of this sorry situation will be the worst of all possible options, a compromise, a reshuffle a rearranging of deckchairs. I just don't see how Lowe can sack Jan yet keep his own job, so expect a reshuffle, some platitudes and many fingers being crossed. I hope you are not feeling sorry for him. This position is completely self-inflicted. He got rid of Pearson for no other reason than he was appointed by Crouch, and sod the footballing merits.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 This season has proven to Lowe that many thousands will not go to SMS while he is here. Those numbers will increase if we go into admin and are relegated. Gaining full control will compound this problem for him. This is the last roll of the dice for Lowe,if we go into administration he WILL walk away with his little tail between his legs. Have to say, I agree with this. Lowe as sole owner would simply make matters worse on the attendance and revenue side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzmeister Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 TBF could this season of been a ploy by Lowe? Appoint a bad manager who will make us look as if were effectivly down anyway then enter into admin (we were down anyway so may as well take the hit) rather than having a decnet manager going up the league, then having all the good feeling wiped away by going into admin? Im not happy either way but if going down is inevitable id much rather we take the hit now, rather than at the start of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 There is, of course, a win situation for Lowe in here. Maybe if a certain ex-manager was tempted to come back on a 6 month contract and he managed to save us, Mr Lowe could then easily sit back and say that he KNEW this ex-manager was always the one to help Saints if he hadn't been blocked coming back here in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I'm sorry but Lowe has to do what's best for the football team, worrying about how he is perceived or his position should not even be a factor. Anyway, having a successful football team is the ONLY way he can be seen as a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 There is, of course, a win situation for Lowe in here. Maybe if a certain ex-manager was tempted to come back on a 6 month contract and he managed to save us, Mr Lowe could then easily sit back and say that he KNEW this ex-manager was always the one to help Saints if he hadn't been blocked coming back here in the first place. Now that WOULD be a negotiating coup of global proportions. Especially as said ex manager is now tied down to a very heavy contract with a major investment fund who pumped large sums of money into his personal business venture in Spain. That one won't be like offering 60k compensation, it will cost about 20mil... Oh sorry, you meant he's getting Branfoot back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 There is, of course, a win situation for Lowe in here. Maybe if a certain ex-manager was tempted to come back on a 6 month contract and he managed to save us, Mr Lowe could then easily sit back and say that he KNEW this ex-manager was always the one to help Saints if he hadn't been blocked coming back here in the first place. I can't imagine this ex-manager coming with no transfer money though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Now that WOULD be a negotiating coup of global proportions. Especially as said ex manager is now tied down to a very heavy contract with a major investment fund who pumped large sums of money into his personal business venture in Spain. That one won't be like offering 60k compensation, it will cost about 20mil... Oh sorry, you meant he's getting Branfoot back in lol... Im pretty sure the said ex-manager could easily say his 6 month contract with Saints would no stop his other work, and in fact might well help his other project out no end if he was able to bring some talent with him or form a strong link between the 2 projects... hmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I can't imagine this ex-manager coming with no transfer money though What does he do for a living at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 lol... Im pretty sure the said ex-manager could easily say his 6 month contract with Saints would no stop his other work, and in fact might well help his other project out no end if he was able to bring some talent with him or form a strong link between the 2 projects... hmmm.... ESPN yesterday something like Premier League snub Hoddle business model - he won't be sending players to England so no value for him IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 ESPN yesterday something like Premier League snub Hoddle business model - he won't be sending players to England so no value for him IMHO. Phil, I hate to break it to you... now maybe you better sit down and get another bullfrog in... but we dont have Premier League status anymore at Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Phil, I hate to break it to you... now maybe you better sit down and get another bullfrog in... but we dont have Premier League status anymore at Saints. NOOOOOOOOOOOO But the point being that maybe an ex manager has a few of his own problems to sort out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 NOOOOOOOOOOOO But the point being that maybe an ex manager has a few of his own problems to sort out Phil - Can you find that link on ESPN, the only one I can find it about the PL and Hansons "Hero" thingy which is linked a bit to Hoddle, but not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 IMHO, Lowe, as CEO , is in a no win position given our current plight. If he bumbles on with this sorry experiment, then he will be accused by many of indecision, putting his own ego driven experiment before the good of the Club. A failure to act will be seen as many as a sign of weakness, indecision and/or a sign of his ego making the decisions. And if he acts, then it will be a sign that his strategy has failed and there is a very strong case that this would make his position untenable. It would be an admission that the first part of this season has been a waste and we are now playing catch up as a result of going down the wrong path. Therefore, I worry that will come out of this sorry situation will be the worst of all possible options, a compromise, a reshuffle a rearranging of deckchairs. I just don't see how Lowe can sack Jan yet keep his own job, so expect a reshuffle, some platitudes and many fingers being crossed.I can see what you are saying and from our standpoint it is correct, but from RL's I expect he is so single minded that he would see it as Jan not being quite up to it.I doubt he wouod ever see it as a resigning issue as manager get changed in all areas of industry and the CEO doesnt resign. In fact i dont recall a chairman ever resigning on the back of a bad managerial appointment.Some people are successful at some clubs not at others. You wishing for too much if you think RL will resign over the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTreeFrog Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I can see what you are saying and from our standpoint it is correct, but from RL's I expect he is so single minded that he would see it as Jan not being quite up to it.I doubt he wouod ever see it as a resigning issue as manager get changed in all areas of industry and the CEO doesnt resign. In fact i dont recall a chairman ever resigning on the back of a bad managerial appointment.Some people are successful at some clubs not at others. You wishing for too much if you think RL will resign over the manager. People keep asking why JP has not been sacked and I expect the answer is a very simple. At the time of the appointment, comments made by both Lowe and Wilde, strongly suggested the main objective was ‘financial survival’ rather than success on the pitch - or even championship survival. I doubt JP was expected to tear up trees in his first season and it is possible that, even if we get relegated, Lowe would consider it a success if the club avoided administration. Of course it is possible that someone with more football league experience than JP could have done better, but it is hard to imagine this team, composed of many players that would not even have made the bench last year, doing much more than struggle to some degree. Last season George Burley’s team hovered around mid table and opposition managers used to say they envied the quality of player we could leave on the bench. Now I would seriously doubt ANY opposition manager would be envious of even our first team - no matter about the bench. So my sympathy is still with JP, it’s not as if he has squandered money or weakened a decent team. I would not be upset were he to resign and someone else take over, I just dont think it would make a huge difference. Derby sacked Billy Davies for 'underperforming' and yet despite giving new man Juwell money to strengthen he actually had a worse points record than Davies. Both are decent managers but Derbys team was nowhere near good engough for the Premieship. I AM NOT saying we are as far behind the rest as Derby were, but most clubs do have stronger first teams, with more experience and more cover than we do. We might get away with young inexperienced players in League 1 (we will probably find out soon enough) but the harder championship is a far tougher challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 People keep asking why JP has not been sacked and I expect the answer is a very simple. At the time of the appointment, comments made by both Lowe and Wilde, strongly suggested the main objective was ‘financial survival’ rather than success on the pitch - or even championship survival. I doubt JP was expected to tear up trees in his first season and it is possible that, even if we get relegated, Lowe would consider it a success if the club avoided administration. Of course it is possible that someone with more football league experience than JP could have done better, but it is hard to imagine this team, composed of many players that would not even have made the bench last year, doing much more than struggle to some degree. Last season George Burley’s team hovered around mid table and opposition managers used to say they envied the quality of player we could leave on the bench. Now I would seriously doubt ANY opposition manager would be envious of even our first team - no matter about the bench. So my sympathy is still with JP, it’s not as if he has squandered money or weakened a decent team. I would not be upset were he to resign and someone else take over, I just dont think it would make a huge difference. Derby sacked Billy Davies for 'underperforming' and yet despite giving new man Juwell money to strengthen he actually had a worse points record than Davies. Both are decent managers but Derbys team was nowhere near good engough for the Premieship. I AM NOT saying we are as far behind the rest as Derby were, but most clubs do have stronger first teams, with more experience and more cover than we do. We might get away with young inexperienced players in League 1 (we will probably find out soon enough) but the harder championship is a far tougher challenge. Agree with all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Some sensible comments by GreenTreeFrog once again. Financial survival and then financial stability is Lowe's number one priority. I can understand the need to use our "cheap" resourses and whilst I was prepared to accept an unknown Dutch team to coach our side it is clear they are out of their depth and their naivety of tactics and understanding of the "English" game is not only damaging the team but our finances as well (many are not going because of our results, it is not just about Lowe) We need to get back to basics of the English game and we need an experienced CCC/lower league Manager for that to happen. I do not feel sorry for JP or MW. They are each earning more a year basic than most of those who pay to watch the team. They have failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I do not feel sorry for JP or MW. They are each earning more a year basic than most of those who pay to watch the team. They have failed. I do feel sorry for JP who was given a nearly impossible job and is working under very difficult circumstances. You can see the pressure is getting to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I wonder how the cost of our coaching team now compares with the cost of our coaching team at the end of last season? I include Kim in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I dont feel sorry for MW. I do feel sorry for JP who was given a nearly impossible job and is working under very difficult circumstances. You can see the pressure is getting to him. He is on £100,000 a year basic for that pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 IMHO, Lowe, as CEO , is in a no win position given our current plight. If he bumbles on with this sorry experiment, then he will be accused by many of indecision, putting his own ego driven experiment before the good of the Club. A failure to act will be seen as many as a sign of weakness, indecision and/or a sign of his ego making the decisions. And if he acts, then it will be a sign that his strategy has failed and there is a very strong case that this would make his position untenable. It would be an admission that the first part of this season has been a waste and we are now playing catch up as a result of going down the wrong path. Therefore, I worry that will come out of this sorry situation will be the worst of all possible options, a compromise, a reshuffle a rearranging of deckchairs. I just don't see how Lowe can sack Jan yet keep his own job, so expect a reshuffle, some platitudes and many fingers being crossed. I completely agree, he is in a no- win situation and will almost certainly fall on his sword come relegation. However lowe will not go without a fight and use whatever means possible to hang on to power. May be i have become too cynical, but last nights hoax "Administration in February" rumour, looked like an orchestrated leak to me, for what end game and by who, i don't know, but if it came from within the club, I doubt it was done in the Clubs best interests. Whatever the outcome, expect a whole load of posturing and spin to come out of SFC over the next month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 He is on £100,000 a year basic for that pressure. No PRP then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 He is on £100,000 a year basic for that pressure. Maybe so, but there are others on £700,000 a year basic who are delivering a lot less to the club. Regardless of the money its still a **** position to be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 lol... Im pretty sure the said ex-manager could easily say his 6 month contract with Saints would no stop his other work, and in fact might well help his other project out no end if he was able to bring some talent with him or form a strong link between the 2 projects... hmmm.... Idea ©Trousers 2007,2008,2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Idea ©Trousers 2007,2008,2009 And BTF (sort of) http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=117334&highlight=academy#post117334 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Idea ©Trousers 2007,2008,2009 I respect no copy, sue me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 People keep asking why JP has not been sacked and I expect the answer is a very simple. At the time of the appointment, comments made by both Lowe and Wilde, strongly suggested the main objective was ‘financial survival’ rather than success on the pitch - or even championship survival. I doubt JP was expected to tear up trees in his first season and it is possible that, even if we get relegated, Lowe would consider it a success if the club avoided administration. Of course it is possible that someone with more football league experience than JP could have done better, but it is hard to imagine this team, composed of many players that would not even have made the bench last year, doing much more than struggle to some degree. Last season George Burley’s team hovered around mid table and opposition managers used to say they envied the quality of player we could leave on the bench. Now I would seriously doubt ANY opposition manager would be envious of even our first team - no matter about the bench. So my sympathy is still with JP, it’s not as if he has squandered money or weakened a decent team. I would not be upset were he to resign and someone else take over, I just dont think it would make a huge difference. Derby sacked Billy Davies for 'underperforming' and yet despite giving new man Juwell money to strengthen he actually had a worse points record than Davies. Both are decent managers but Derbys team was nowhere near good engough for the Premieship. I AM NOT saying we are as far behind the rest as Derby were, but most clubs do have stronger first teams, with more experience and more cover than we do. We might get away with young inexperienced players in League 1 (we will probably find out soon enough) but the harder championship is a far tougher challenge. I'd agree with large parts of that but the statement about Wilde is wrong, Wilde was openly talking about the play-offs on the OS, I don't recall Rupert commenting on his expectations. You do make so good and fair points here and there is a lot truth in it but the club have picked this route rather than trying to find gems from the lower leagues or top-end of non-league. To be honest, there are probably a select band of players at the top-end of the Conference that are more ready than some of our academy lads - look at Kightly, McLean, McKail-Smith and it's that level where some of our young lads should be cutting their teeth, not the CCC. A lad like Lancashire should be learning his trade at somewhere like Eastleigh or Bognor and if he does well, he could progress on to somewhere like Eastbourne or Salisbury during the season and perhaps get a game if we went down. Guys from League 1 and possibly League 2 players could have stepped up even more convincingly and mixed with the CREAM of our young players. I agree with CB Fry's recent posts, this was a concious choice by the club and they are accountable for it, even within the financial restrictions it was NOT the only game in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 People keep asking why JP has not been sacked and I expect the answer is a very simple. At the time of the appointment, comments made by both Lowe and Wilde, strongly suggested the main objective was ‘financial survival’ rather than success on the pitch - or even championship survival. But "success on the pitch" is absolutely vital if you want ‘financial survival’. The club doesn't have a hope in hell if the people running it are thinking the same as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Maybe so, but there are others on £700,000 a year basic who are delivering a lot less to the club. Regardless of the money its still a **** position to be in. Yes but most people have to make the best of limited resources in their job. Most of the high earners have gone now so that excuse cannot be hidden behind for JP. He seems decent guy but 1 slightly fortunate home win (Norwich battered us on early on and the woodwork and Kelvin saved us before Robertson scored a beauty out of the blue) all season in the league is poor even in the circumstances. On Saturday, Doncaster, a club with resources that are still less than ours, clearly played with more determination, effort, fitness, pride and the better football. Many of those characteristics are not linked to how much someone earns. That becomes important when a club is bringing in extra quality to unlock teams to challenge for promotion and that's not where we are at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Yes but most people have to make the best of limited resources in their job. Most of the high earners have gone now so that excuse cannot be hidden behind for JP. He seems decent guy but 1 slightly fortunate home win (Norwich battered us on early on and the woodwork and Kelvin saved us before Robertson scored a beauty out of the blue) all season in the league is poor even in the circumstances. On Saturday, Doncaster, a club with resources that are still less than ours, clearly played with more determination, effort, fitness, pride and the better football. Many of those characteristics are not linked to how much someone earns. That becomes important when a club is bringing in extra quality to unlock teams to challenge for promotion and that's not where we are at. I dont disagree with that, but no matter how hard and effectively he works - everyone knows we need a clinical goal scorer and would still need one even if Ferguson was in charge. Even if just Euell disappeared we could afford to pay for someone who would convert many of those long range chances currently going begging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I can see what you are saying and from our standpoint it is correct, but from RL's I expect he is so single minded that he would see it as Jan not being quite up to it.I doubt he wouod ever see it as a resigning issue as manager get changed in all areas of industry and the CEO doesnt resign. In fact i dont recall a chairman ever resigning on the back of a bad managerial appointment.Some people are successful at some clubs not at others. You wishing for too much if you think RL will resign over the manager. Depends if you see it as simply appointing a manager, or part of hanging your coat on an entire long-term strategy for the club. I reckon JP was integral to the long-term strategy, which means if he is fired the whole thing is in the bin. CEOs do tend to carry the can for f**ked-up long-term strategy, because the effects and recovery from it are wide-ranging, painful, massively expensive and time consuming, and LONG-TERM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 And BTF (sort of) http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=117334&highlight=academy#post117334 Ah....whoops......Trousers, you are guilty as charged (under the credit piracy act of 1867) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I really do not see any validity in the Lowe is doing it to buy the club on the cheap argument. If the club goes into Admin then the "liquidator" has to raise cash to pay off the creditors. So we know that is around 22mil for the mortgage, somewhere between 5 and 8mil for Barclays. Then his fees will add something like a mil, and then there will be the staff payouts for redundancy (yes the company no longer exists they have no jobs) and then the bills for taxes rates etc. Where will they get that money from? Selling everything that can be moved - players, property and the like. How much would we get at auction for all our wonderful sports science equipment? About 50 quid down the car boot sale.... Who will buy a stadium? The only possible people who need one are the Sk*tes - get SMS for 5 mil - bargain. We'll be left looking for out of contract players who want to train on the common every day and change in the municipal changing rooms. Good grief people they would even have to sell THE CATERING EQUIPMENT. (How on EARTH would you get a pre-match or half-time beer then!) The point is that sure there could still be a club, but it will be left with nothing. The debts are too high to cover a Liququidation Sale. Renting the ground from a property speculator or sharing it, no decent players, no land for the Academy players to train on, nothing. So we won't even qualify for Academy status, so that reduces the levl of kids who want to sign for us. Does any sane person really think that running a shell of a club like that is the sort of thing anybody except a totally devoted and wealthy fan would want to do? (ie by our own admissions - not a narcisstic business guru) It could take decades to recover and most of us will lose what has been an important part of our lives On the back of this, and supposing things go belly up, can we create a new song, to be sung on the terraces that will remind the generations to come what it was like to support Saints in these dark days, maybe in the hope that they will be better off for being reminded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 What does he do for a living at the moment? Don't see the relevance, secondly, if we went for the cheap option of JP and couldn't afford Pearson, would an ex-manager work for a 100k p.a? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTreeFrog Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I'd agree with large parts of that but the statement about Wilde is wrong, Wilde was openly talking about the play-offs on the OS, I don't recall Rupert commenting on his expectations. You do make so good and fair points here and there is a lot truth in it but the club have picked this route rather than trying to find gems from the lower leagues or top-end of non-league. To be honest, there are probably a select band of players at the top-end of the Conference that are more ready than some of our academy lads - look at Kightly, McLean, McKail-Smith and it's that level where some of our young lads should be cutting their teeth, not the CCC. A lad like Lancashire should be learning his trade at somewhere like Eastleigh or Bognor and if he does well, he could progress on to somewhere like Eastbourne or Salisbury during the season and perhaps get a game if we went down. Guys from League 1 and possibly League 2 players could have stepped up even more convincingly and mixed with the CREAM of our young players. I agree with CB Fry's recent posts, this was a concious choice by the club and they are accountable for it, even within the financial restrictions it was NOT the only game in town. I know positive statements were made a month or two into the season but I was speaking of the big press conference when JP and Woote were announced and the reasons given. If you could find those comments (in full) you would see they were very negative (almost apologetic) for a managerial unveiling. Unfortunately the unabridged version was only on the OS and I have been unable to track it down on Google. Actually just before I posted I deleted a line where I had written that JP had ‘made a rod for his own back’ by claiming we might be good enough to get into the play offs. I deleted it, with a few more sentences, to make the post more compact. I don’t disagree with a lot of your other comments, but I was not really defending Lowe or his plan here, there are always alternatives but I feel the alternatives are also gambles (assuming they are even financially viable). A few months back one regular poster on here suggested an 'alternative' the club could have taken; he suggested we could sell Lallana and Surman and bring in experienced players (on Bosmans/Cheap) but on decent wages with the transfer money. Is that really any less of a gamble? We would then be deliberately weakening our team in the hope the handful of experienced incomers would not only make up for the talent gap but significantly improve on it. As it has turned out no one seems to want them anyway, or if they are sold the money we would get is likely to be very low. It might also affect the morale of our other players, especially those playing well on a fraction of the wages of the new boys. Gambling all round. Again, I stress that is not to defend Lowe or all the decisions he has made, but I just think anything we do at the moment is a big risk as we are so seriously broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I know positive statements were made a month or two into the season but I was speaking of the big press conference when JP and Woote were announced and the reasons given. If you could find those comments (in full) you would see they were very negative (almost apologetic) for a managerial unveiling. Unfortunately the unabridged version was only on the OS and I have been unable to track it down on Google. Actually just before I posted I deleted a line where I had written that JP had ‘made a rod for his own back’ by claiming we might be good enough to get into the play offs. I deleted it, with a few more sentences, to make the post more compact. I don’t disagree with a lot of your other comments, but I was not really defending Lowe or his plan here, there are always alternatives but I feel the alternatives are also gambles (assuming they are even financially viable). A few months back one regular poster on here suggested an 'alternative' the club could have taken; he suggested we could sell Lallana and Surman and bring in experienced players (on Bosmans/Cheap) but on decent wages with the transfer money. Is that really any less of a gamble? We would then be deliberately weakening our team in the hope the handful of experienced incomers would not only make up for the talent gap but significantly improve on it. As it has turned out no one seems to want them anyway, or if they are sold the money we would get is likely to be very low. It might also affect the morale of our other players, especially those playing well on a fraction of the wages of the new boys. Gambling all round. Again, I stress that is not to defend Lowe or all the decisions he has made, but I just think anything we do at the moment is a big risk as we are so seriously broke. Everytime you post i am more convinced your Mike Wilde posting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTreeFrog Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 But "success on the pitch" is absolutely vital if you want ‘financial survival’. The club doesn't have a hope in hell if the people running it are thinking the same as you. How am I ‘thinking’ then? You assume I have not realised what is a rather obvious fact. My post was only giving my opinion on why I believe Lowe would not sack JP at this moment. I don't think a new manager would do much different under the same set up that we have now. That was all. I don’t want to get into a discussion on Lowe as that bores me rigid; any comment not directly slating him is taken as wholehearted support of everything he has ever done. Anyway weren’t the thousands of fans supposed to be staying away as a protest to Lowes presence at the club? Now you are implying if the team was winning these thousands would flood back and be happy to help the club’s financial survival - and make Lowes face even more smug than it already is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenTreeFrog Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Everytime you post i am more convinced your Mike Wilde posting again. I don't know whether I am pleased or insulted by that! Might take a while to work out. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 Again, I stress that is not to defend Lowe or all the decisions he has made, but I just think anything we do at the moment is a big risk as we are so seriously broke. As usual good post from you but this is what ****es most of us off...we were fed the line Pearson was too expensive - OK given he may of needed back room staff but we could of utilised existing Hockaday and Henderson more as at the moment it looks athough they are being wasted. Now we have Wotte, Gorre and an alleged DOF on the bill. We have seen 5 loan signings who are quite frankly abysmal standard. I have seen them all play several times and there were better options 2 that would not of cost the earth Lucketti(even at his age far better than Lancashire) and Andy Bishop from Bury who was one of the best strikers I saw last season. I cannot see how anyone can defend Lowe(not that you are) when I fail to see anything he has done since his return has worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 22 January, 2009 Share Posted 22 January, 2009 I don't know whether I am pleased or insulted by that! Might take a while to work out. Mike. I notice you've not denied it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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