Climate Change

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Nick Ferarri starting his show this morning yelling 'Run for your lives'. Is he now part the MSM/RAF climate catastrophising conspiracy or is he still a truth seeker?

If you seek the truth then it would probably be better to seek elsewhere.

[Scally42]

On 22/07/2023 at 14:27, Sheaf Saint said:

On the face of it, it's an interesting discussion with a few good points made. Lomborg speaks well and does a decent job of sounding convincing to the layman, but he doesn't exactly have a good reputation for reliability in these matters, and frequently contradicts himself when it comes to climate policy proposals.

Just saying "Yay for extra heat because it will save a few lives in winter" is a very myopic way of looking at the situation, and demonstrates a total lack of big picture thinking. Yes, humans may be able to tolerate extra heat more than we can tolerate cold, but what about the rest of the food chain we rely on? Current projections are that maize production could decline by 20% worldwide by 2030, and the extra heat being rapidly absorbed by the oceans is causing a massive disruption to their ecosystems, making them more and more uninhabitable for marine life.

 

[Sheaf Saint]

14 hours ago, Scally42 said:

Not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. Yes, cereal production is still on an upward trend, while temperatures have been gradually rising. But at some point along that trajectory, the trends will diverge and grain production will begin to decline as global temperatures rise and rainfall patterns change. If we go over certain tipping points and enter into runaway warming, that point will come sooner rather than later.

Interestingly, this chart shows a decline in production in 2018. We had a severe heatwave and drought in parts of Europe that year, and this study documents the impact this had on crop yields...

"In 2018, Northern and Eastern Europe experienced multiple and simultaneous crop failures—among the highest observed in recent decades. These yield losses were associated with extremely low rainfalls in combination with high temperatures between March and August 2018".

Edited 25 July, 2023 by Sheaf Saint

[Golactico]

The UN chief is saying we have reached the era of 'global boiling' and called for redoubling of efforts to phase out fossil fuels.

However, it appears that the most inconvenient of all inconvenient truths is that changing the global food system should be the real priority. It seems that all fossil fuel use could stop dead tomorrow and we still would not achieve the 1.5 degree limit, due to what we eat and how we produce it.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aba7357

[sadoldgit]

The implementation of ULEZ into outer London areas has been found as lawful by the courts.

Clearly a big issue but if it helps to prevent the 4000 deaths a year in the capital due to air pollution and won’t affect 90% of current drivers whose vehicles are compliant, isn’t this a good thing?

[AlexLaw76]

19 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The implementation of ULEZ into outer London areas has been found as lawful by the courts.

Clearly a big issue but if it helps to prevent the 4000 deaths a year in the capital due to air pollution and won’t affect 90% of current drivers whose vehicles are compliant, isn’t this a good thing?

4000 deaths per year in the capital..so that is 15% of all London deaths are down to air pollution..

Jesus 🤣

Edited 28 July, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[Lighthouse]

37 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The implementation of ULEZ into outer London areas has been found as lawful by the courts.

Clearly a big issue but if it helps to prevent the 4000 deaths a year in the capital due to air pollution and won’t affect 90% of current drivers whose vehicles are compliant, isn’t this a good thing?

No. I support environmental causes but this scheme is f**king stupid.

[badgerx16]

21 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

4000 deaths per year in the capital..so that is 15% of all London deaths are down to air pollution..

Jesus 🤣

Can you help me with a problem ? I want to set up an alert system whereby I get a notification whenever a certain poster puts up a new item. I know you have it configured for following SOG, so could you advise me how to do it ?

Ta.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

The implementation of ULEZ into outer London areas has been found as lawful by the courts.

Clearly a big issue but if it helps to prevent the 4000 deaths a year in the capital due to air pollution and won’t affect 90% of current drivers whose vehicles are compliant, isn’t this a good thing?

Isn't there already a scheme in place whereby vehicles that emit the most damaging gases are charged more money?

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

😂😂😂. If it helped prevent deaths surely you'd ban non compliant cars, not charge them.

It’s ok killing people, proved you “cough” up £12.50 a day. Fucking hell, if you really believed car pollution killed that many, youd be driving round Golders Green day after day, instead of virtue signalling on here. 

Agree it's a money raising scheme - one which was conceived by Mayor Boris Johnson and the expansion mandated by Schapps as Minister of Transport under Johnson as PM. It was a condition of TFL bailout funding covering the pandemic (when fare revenue crashed because of lockdown). Whassup, dont you like Tory policy? 

 

Mayor confirms world’s first Ultra Low Emission Zone. • The Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, today (Thursday 26 March) confirmed the introduction of the world’s first Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ), and welcomed an increased fund of £65 million to help support London taxi drivers’ transition to zero emission capable taxis.

Following a positive consultation process, the Ultra Low Emission Zone will launch in central London on 7 September 2020, significantly improving air quality and helping to protect the health of Londoners. It will require vehicles travelling in the Congestion Charge Zone of central London to meet new emission standards 24 hours a day, seven days a week or pay a daily charge.

 

https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2021/10/27/transport-secretary-criticises-ulez-expansion-despite-insisting-on-it/

https://www.onlondon.co.uk/letter-from-grant-shapps-shows-that-government-proposed-enlarging-london-congestion-charge-zone/

https://www.transportxtra.com/publications/local-transport-today/news/71906/tfl-to-get-1-2bn-from-government-in-long-term-settlement/ 

Edited 28 July, 2023 by buctootim

[egg]

17 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Isn't there already a scheme in place whereby vehicles that emit the most damaging gases are charged more money?

Indeed. The hideous road tax I pay on my gas guzzler surely is the price to pay for driving a gas guzzler? And the shed loads of extra fuel duty and vat on all the fuel it consumes. Ulez is disgraceful profiteering. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

32 minutes ago, egg said:

Ulez is disgraceful profiteering. 

Mateee. 
 

It’s to stop death, and give our children & their children a better future. 

[sadoldgit]

25 minutes ago, egg said:

Indeed. The hideous road tax I pay on my gas guzzler surely is the price to pay for driving a gas guzzler? And the shed loads of extra fuel duty and vat on all the fuel it consumes. Ulez is disgraceful profiteering. 

Not if everyone drives a compliant vehicle. And if the money raised is ploughed back into matters that help the environment, where’s the problem? 

Perhaps this is being looked at the wrong way? The government are happy to provide other cities around the country with money for a decent scrapage scheme, why not London? It couldn’t possibly be to cause problems for Labour could it in the run up to the mayoral election next year? Why does Khan have to find the money himself when the government are helping out other ULEZ schemes?

Cleaner air means healthier inhabitants and less of a drain on NHS resources. Fewer days lost by employers by sick leave. Doesn’t it seem logical that those causing the pollution pay extra if they don’t change to compliant vehicles? Boris Johnson clearly thought so when he was mayor.

The issue here shouldn’t be whether it is extended or not. It should be about the help, or lack of help, given to those who need to change their vehicles in order to comply with the new regulations.

[buctootim]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Mateee. 
 

It’s to stop death, and give our children & their children a better future. 

So you're pleased with Johnson and Schapps work? 

Edited 28 July, 2023 by buctootim

[egg]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

Not if everyone drives a compliant vehicle. And if the money raised is ploughed back into matters that help the environment, where’s the problem? 

Perhaps this is being looked at the wrong way? The government are happy to provide other cities around the country with money for a decent scrapage scheme, why not London? It couldn’t possibly be to cause problems for Labour could it in the run up to the mayoral election next year? Why does Khan have to find the money himself when the government are helping out other ULEZ schemes?

Cleaner air means healthier inhabitants and less of a drain on NHS resources. Fewer days lost by employers by sick leave. Doesn’t it seem logical that those causing the pollution pay extra if they don’t change to compliant vehicles? Boris Johnson clearly thought so when he was mayor.

The issue here shouldn’t be whether it is extended or not. It should be about the help, or lack of help, given to those who need to change their vehicles in order to comply with the new regulations.

How do you propose that "everyone" drives a compliant vehicle? I thought your are a man of the people SoG. How's the poor sod earning £25k with 3 kids gonna do that? The government aren't going to foot the bill. Your wish is an impossible reality.

"Non compliant" vehicles only becomes a thing if you set parameters after people buy said vehicles. That's what's happened here. What we've had for some time is a road tax system which charges a premium for non green cars, and fuel charges made up largely of tax which impacts most on those using the most fuel. Surely you agree that there are taxes right there which hit those driving high polluting vehicles. Nothing else is needed, unless you're out to rinse people. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, buctootim said:

So you're pleased with Johnson and Schapps work? 

What does it matter who conceived it, and who contrived the expansion? It's still a profiteering exercise. 

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

What does it matter who conceived it, and who contrived the expansion? It's still a profiteering exercise. 

Two reasons. 1) because the original deception and messaging about it was conceived by Johnson and his team when he was Mayor. 2. because Schapps Sunak and the rest are now lying about it, saying its an example of how awful Labour will be and how voters should vote Tory because they'd never do anything like that.... 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Two reasons. 1) because the original deception and messaging about it was conceived by Johnson and his team when he was Mayor. 2. because Schapps Sunak and the rest are now lying about it, saying its an example of how awful Labour will be and how voters should vote Tory because they'd never do anything like that.... 

The blame game doesn't alter the fact that it's happening. That said, is it not the case that what Schapps sought is different to what's been delivered? 

[buctootim]

Just now, egg said:

That said, is it not the case that what Schapps sought is different to what's been delivered? 

In what way? 

[egg]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

In what way? 

Not sure of the detail, but  sure it's been written that what we have is not what was insisted upon. I may be wrong tho. 

[Fan The Flames]

36 minutes ago, egg said:

What does it matter who conceived it, and who contrived the expansion? It's still a profiteering exercise. 

It's paying for Transport for London.

[Fan The Flames]

25 minutes ago, egg said:

Not sure of the detail, but  sure it's been written that what we have is not what was insisted upon. I may be wrong tho. 

Shapps required ULEZ to be expanded as part of the post covid bailout, it was expand to the North and South Circular roads and is now being expanded again. It is unknown what level of expansion Shapps wanted and of course it's all deniable. 

Added to this, there is a legal requirement for the london mayor to improve air quality and ULEZ has.

[Fan The Flames]

You can get a ULEZ compliant car for less than £2k.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

It's paying for Transport for London.

And the ULEZ in Bristol?  I'm assuming that isn't paying for TfL so must be profiteering?

[Turkish]

Severe weather warnings on the Algarve where it’s a boiling 27 degrees 🤔

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

You can get a ULEZ compliant car for less than £2k.

How much for LEZ compliant lorries?  I'm guessing there aren't that many so the additional charges for deliveries etc are passed on to the consumers...

[egg]

3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

You can get a ULEZ compliant car for less than £2k.

You won't when everyone wants one. What about builders vans etc? 

[Turkish]

Severe weather warnings in northern Italy where there is a chance of moderate thunderstorms and moderate rain 🤔

Edited 28 July, 2023 by Turkish

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Severe weather warnings in northern Italy where there is a chance of moderate thunderstorms and moderate rain 🤔

To be fair, that forecast is from the 'Italian air force' and we know how the Italian military likes to run away from everything, including rain it seems!

[Lord Duckhunter]

We need the big guns to train their sights on this net zero pony. Hopefully big dog Farage, fresh from draining the Nat West swamp, gets the band back together and forces the establishment to abandon this lunacy. 

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Hopefully big dog Farage, fresh from draining the Nat West swamp, gets the band back together and forces the establishment to abandon this lunacy. 

If he thinks he can make plenty of money from doing so, and can fabricate enough convincing lies, he would probably give it a go.

[AlexLaw76]

12 hours ago, Turkish said:

Severe weather warnings in northern Italy where there is a chance of moderate thunderstorms and moderate rain 🤔

That's "Global Boiling" for you

[Fan The Flames]

15 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And the ULEZ in Bristol?  I'm assuming that isn't paying for TfL so must be profiteering?

30 second google buddy - 'We'll invest surplus revenue into transport improvements to make it easier for people to walk, cycle and use public transport.'

[Fan The Flames]

15 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How much for LEZ compliant lorries?  I'm guessing there aren't that many so the additional charges for deliveries etc are passed on to the consumers...

All costs of business are passed on to the client, like the costs of brexit.

Clean air isn't free.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

All costs of business are passed on to the client, like the costs of brexit.

Clean air isn't free.

great news. Even more costs for the average Joe.

 

[Fan The Flames]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

great news. Even more costs for the average Joe.

 

Let's go back into the EU and save the average Joe a few quid.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

Let's go back into the EU and save the average Joe a few quid.

Or, lets just not impose a tariff for driving your car in greater london. We can do that right now.

The EU is another matter entirely

 

[Fan The Flames]

Has anyone got any mates in Newham, Bromley, Carshalton or somewhere to see if the air quality isn't as bad as the MSM are making out.

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Or, lets just not impose a tariff for driving your car in greater london. We can do that right now.

The EU is another matter entirely

So how do you proposed to to clean the air then.

If it's just about saving us cash then the EU isn't another matter at all, I didn't see you standing up for the average Joe then.

[AlexLaw76]

13 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

So how do you proposed to to clean the air then.

If it's just about saving us cash then the EU isn't another matter at all, I didn't see you standing up for the average Joe then.

This is a money grab, and even the Labour Party know it.

People can carry on killing granny, for £12.50 per day.

 

You asked for someone in Bermondsey,

Of course, lets ignore the Labour MP having a 2nd job for moment...

 

Edited 29 July, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[sadoldgit]

23 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

This is a money grab, and even the Labour Party know it.

People can carry on killing granny, for £12.50 per day.

 

You asked for someone in Bermondsey,

Of course, lets ignore the Labour MP having a 2nd job for second...

 

You really are dense. Everything is a money grab. We live in a capitalist society don’t we? To do things it cost money. As already said, clean air doesn’t come free. As part of the process the public transport services need to be improved. That costs money. The air quality in the underground in London needs to be improved. That costs money. The £12.50 will help but that disappears if everyone drives compliant vehicles, which of course is the aim. So not the greatest money grab really is it given 90% of vehicles are already compliant. Hopefully the daily charge will encourage more people to change their vehicles or to use public transport.

For someone who lives in London and has children, I assume, I am surprised that you are not in favour of the cleaner air this Tory driven initiative has provided for your family. 

Your typical Batman jibe about killing granny for £12.50 shows just how ignorant you are. Go and do some research about the effect that the particulates have on developing lungs. You might not give a stuff about the health of future generations, but fortunately others do. We have spent years being poisoned in pursuit of cash. We are now having to spend cash in dealing with that poison.
 

 

Edited 29 July, 2023 by sadoldgit
Typo

[Fan The Flames]

22 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

This is a money grab, and even the Labour Party know it.

People can carry on killing granny, for £12.50 per day.

 

You asked for someone in Bermondsey,

Of course, lets ignore the Labour MP having a 2nd job for moment...

 

He lives in Bermondsey, which has been inside the ULEZ area since 2021, but he is angry now, now that the life long tory supporter can jump on the anti Labour bandwagon. There see that there is anti labour capital in this and these guys are going to rinse it.

Despite all the other costs rises he wants to blame the labour party, you can't say he's not a biased caller. He wants to blame health issuses on peoples immune systems and says people aren't dropping down dead in the streets from air pollution, the guy's a bit cuckoo.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

30 second google buddy - 'We'll invest surplus revenue into transport improvements to make it easier for people to walk, cycle and use public transport.'

It's astonishing that the European Green capital of the year 2015 would need to invest in transport improvements to make it easier for people to walk, cycle and use public transport, especially since there has been another seven years of building on top of that success.

https://bristolgreencapital.org/who-we-are/european-green-capital-award/#:~:text=Why Bristol%3F,environmental improvement and sustainable development

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

So how do you proposed to to clean the air then.

If it's just about saving us cash then the EU isn't another matter at all, I didn't see you standing up for the average Joe then.

It’s already as clean as it’s ever going to be.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

He lives in Bermondsey, which has been inside the ULEZ area since 2021, but he is angry now, now that the life long tory supporter can jump on the anti Labour bandwagon. There see that there is anti labour capital in this and these guys are going to rinse it.

Despite all the other costs rises he wants to blame the labour party, you can't say he's not a biased caller. He wants to blame health issuses on peoples immune systems and says people aren't dropping down dead in the streets from air pollution, the guy's a bit cuckoo.

Is he a 'bit cuckoo' for saying that or are people actually dropping down dead in the streets from air pollution?

[Fan The Flames]

25 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is he a 'bit cuckoo' for saying that or are people actually dropping down dead in the streets from air pollution?

Here's a bit news for you, people don't need to drop down dead in the street for us to want to do something about it, see smoking or obesity.

[Fan The Flames]

32 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It's astonishing that the European Green capital of the year 2015 would need to invest in transport improvements to make it easier for people to walk, cycle and use public transport, especially since there has been another seven years of building on top of that success.

https://bristolgreencapital.org/who-we-are/european-green-capital-award/#:~:text=Why Bristol%3F,environmental improvement and sustainable development

Do you really think that that stuff is just a one off purchase.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

To do things it cost money. As already said, clean air doesn’t come free. 

 

 

[andypen]

So what about the many people who can't afford a new car, or the extra £300 a month just to go about their business? Fuck em eh? The Uxbridge election result proves just how unpopular this scam, sorry scheme is. Starmer shit his pants and Sunak is now considering a rethink on his Net Zero timeline. The ULEZ tax will now be extended to other major cities if many councils have their way. You have been warned.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, andypen said:

So what about the many people who can't afford a new car, or the extra £300 a month just to go about their business? Fuck em eh? The Uxbridge election result proves just how unpopular this scam, sorry scheme is. Starmer shit his pants and Sunak is now considering a rethink on his Net Zero timeline. The ULEZ tax will now be extended to other major cities if many councils have their way. You have been warned.

You don't need to buy a new car. 

What about the people who want cleaner air, fuck em eh?