Professor Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 What are the factors that enable the team to win away but not at home, to get 17 points away but only 8 points at home. The most obvious difference is that home games are played in front of a home crowd that should be supportive but is not. The negative attitudes shown by some people on this forum are indicative of the same attitudes taken by too many fans into the SMS. Until the Saints fans stop their obsession with Rupert Lowe and get behind the team, without negative and obscene chants, its likely that home performances will continue to be poor. If the negative fans want to see things improve, they need to take a reality check and face up to what they are doing to the team at home. As for those who just want Lowe to go at any price - they are going the right way about it - because in due course he will just get fed up with it - but the price will be a bankrupt club and even lower league football. The way to save this club is for fans to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 Sorry Professor but i cant agree with you. The home support has been brilliant this season despite the sub standard football that has been served up. As for fans supporting the club???? Where have you been this season? The only time us fans began to sing anti Lowe songs was at the last home game and even then,no one shouted abuse at the team. Like ive said a thousand times before,if good support made teams win games,then we would be top of the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 What are the factors that enable the team to win away but not at home, to get 17 points away but only 8 points at home. The most obvious difference is that home games are played in front of a home crowd that should be supportive but is not. The negative attitudes shown by some people on this forum are indicative of the same attitudes taken by too many fans into the SMS. Until the Saints fans stop their obsession with Rupert Lowe and get behind the team, without negative and obscene chants, its likely that home performances will continue to be poor. If the negative fans want to see things improve, they need to take a reality check and face up to what they are doing to the team at home. As for those who just want Lowe to go at any price - they are going the right way about it - because in due course he will just get fed up with it - but the price will be a bankrupt club and even lower league football. The way to save this club is for fans to support it. Agree a little But Tactics with only one up are contributing mainly to the bad form at home I would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSaint75 Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 There has been nowt wrong with the home support for most of the season!! The reason for poor form at home is the stupid formations we play and the inability for wide players to stay wide...oh and lack of a decent striker Don't blame the fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 Professor of idiocy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englesaint Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 Given your opening line I thought you were going to discuss the "factors" but no . . . . it's a one track argument blaming the fans again ! The fans have been fine and some would say more than fine, given what they've had to put up with. As others have said, curious tactics/formations have more than played their part . . . things the fans have no control over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 Just like to point out we don't have a top 6 away form and as far as i'm aware never did In our 14 away games we have picked up 17 points, that puts us 12th http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/away.html Our last 5 away games we have seen 1 win 1 draw and 3 loses meaning we are currently 18th best away team http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/aform.html Were **** away and even ****er at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 What are the factors that enable the team to win away but not at home, to get 17 points away but only 8 points at home. The most obvious difference is that home games are played in front of a home crowd that should be supportive but is not. The negative attitudes shown by some people on this forum are indicative of the same attitudes taken by too many fans into the SMS. Until the Saints fans stop their obsession with Rupert Lowe and get behind the team, without negative and obscene chants, its likely that home performances will continue to be poor. If the negative fans want to see things improve, they need to take a reality check and face up to what they are doing to the team at home. As for those who just want Lowe to go at any price - they are going the right way about it - because in due course he will just get fed up with it - but the price will be a bankrupt club and even lower league football. The way to save this club is for fans to support it. So it has nothing to do with tactics, players, managers, its all down to the supporters. Rearrange these words and then we will all see where you are coming from: land cuckoo cloud. It matters not a jot whether the crowd gets behind the team, barracks the team, the ground is full or the ground is empty. The basic reason is that our recently departed nice but dim amateur coach could not see that playing one up front at home is a recipe for disaster. It worked away, sometimes, because the other teams in the CCC go out to win at home, and so leave gaps and opportunities to counter attack. Whereas at home, we go out with a one-up-front defensive minded approach and invite the visitors to play. Coupled with our inability to deal with crosses and corners effectively this strategy is the worst possible option. Incidentally it is a fallacy that we are really good away. We have lost as many away as we have at home, only 6 teams have lost more away games, our away goal difference is also worse than at home. When we win away we almost always nick it by 1 goal (Doncaster excepted) but we have also had some heavy defeats on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graymalkin33 Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 But what puzzles me is our home form was very poor last year. This year our team is totally different with different managment. the only things that are the same are the opposition (roughly) and the home supporters and the ground. So why has our home form been so poor for last 2 seasons. Last year we had the 20th best(worst) home record in the division. 2008/9 1 6 7 10 18 2007/8 9 5 9 26 27 2006/7 13 6 4 36 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 I wouldn't overestimate this but I wouldn't rule it out either. SMS is Premiership-calibre ground with a top quality playing surface. That provides more inspiration to opponents than it does to us, because we play there every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 more cr*p from the Prof. the crowd have been behind the team at sms all season. the reason behind the disparity btween home and away wins is purely down to the managers tactics or lack of at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 What are the factors that enable the team to win away but not at home, to get 17 points away but only 8 points at home. The most obvious difference is that home games are played in front of a home crowd that should be supportive but is not. The negative attitudes shown by some people on this forum are indicative of the same attitudes taken by too many fans into the SMS. Until the Saints fans stop their obsession with Rupert Lowe and get behind the team, without negative and obscene chants, its likely that home performances will continue to be poor. If the negative fans want to see things improve, they need to take a reality check and face up to what they are doing to the team at home. As for those who just want Lowe to go at any price - they are going the right way about it - because in due course he will just get fed up with it - but the price will be a bankrupt club and even lower league football. The way to save this club is for fans to support it. Jan Poortvliet speaking before the Doncaster game: Saints fans will also play their role, and Poortvliet is determined to give the home fans something to cheer about following the recent lack of success at St. Mary's. "The fans have supported us very well this season and it's up to us now to give them something back. It's a new year and I told the boys not to think about what has happened in the past. They need to go out their free in their head and just focus on beating Doncaster." http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/search/?mode=movenav&page_id=11233 Happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzo Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 It matters not a jot whether the crowd gets behind the team, barracks the team, the ground is full or the ground is empty. What an absolute load of ********! Did you ever see us play at The Dell? I witnessed some pretty poor Saints sides get results from games they had no right to, and it was massively influenced by the crowd. That 3-3 against Liverpool when we'd been 3 down; the two goal comeback against Newcastle for a 2-2; and, frankly, the daddy of them all, the 3-1 against Newcastle, where we were awful for at least 70-80 minutes. Part of The Archers stood up, starting chanting non-stop, some wag came on the tannoy to tell them to sit down, so the whole Archers then stood up and got a hell of a lot louder. We ended up scoring three in the last two minutes, and the ground was loud as hell. So don't try and tell me that the crowd has no effect on the game. I've only been to the Forest game this season, and I thought that the crowd was awful, giving hardly any support to the team from the kick off. The support seemed to give up once we hadn't scored after twenty minutes (or so), and then the crowd turned on the players once Forest scored. I came away from that game (and, granted, the performance was awful) feeling that the crowd were going to get the relegation that they deserve. I was embarassed by my fellow fans. I'm not arguing over whether we've been good enough to win more home games, and I'm not saying that it's all down to the hostile crowd either, but for you to say that it has no negative effect is just absolute rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 What an absolute load of ********! Did you ever see us play at The Dell? I witnessed some pretty poor Saints sides get results from games they had no right to, and it was massively influenced by the crowd. That 3-3 against Liverpool when we'd been 3 down; the two goal comeback against Newcastle for a 2-2; and, frankly, the daddy of them all, the 3-1 against Newcastle, where we were awful for at least 70-80 minutes. Part of The Archers stood up, starting chanting non-stop, some wag came on the tannoy to tell them to sit down, so the whole Archers then stood up and got a hell of a lot louder. We ended up scoring three in the last two minutes, and the ground was loud as hell. So don't try and tell me that the crowd has no effect on the game. I've only been to the Forest game this season, and I thought that the crowd was awful, giving hardly any support to the team from the kick off. The support seemed to give up once we hadn't scored after twenty minutes (or so), and then the crowd turned on the players once Forest scored. I came away from that game (and, granted, the performance was awful) feeling that the crowd were going to get the relegation that they deserve. I was embarassed by my fellow fans. I'm not arguing over whether we've been good enough to win more home games, and I'm not saying that it's all down to the hostile crowd either, but for you to say that it has no negative effect is just absolute rubbish. you base your post on one home game so not sure what happened in all the others because the crowd have been behind the team. If you had watched the other you may not be so quick to criticise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 Top 6 away No we're not.:rolleyes: HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzo Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 you base your post on one home game so not sure what happened in all the others because the crowd have been behind the team. If you had watched the other you may not be so quick to criticise I am also going on what my mates with season tickets have told me it's been like this season. One of them has started taking an iPod with him, so he doesn't have to listen to the arse a couple of rows back who spends the entire match loudly moaning. It's gotten bad enough that they're considering whether to renew next season, and that's nothing to do with the football. Though they did also helpfuly point out that I'd witnessed the worst game of football all season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 What are the factors that enable the team to win away but not at home, to get 17 points away but only 8 points at home. The most obvious difference is that home games are played in front of a home crowd that should be supportive but is not. The negative attitudes shown by some people on this forum are indicative of the same attitudes taken by too many fans into the SMS. Until the Saints fans stop their obsession with Rupert Lowe and get behind the team, without negative and obscene chants, its likely that home performances will continue to be poor. If the negative fans want to see things improve, they need to take a reality check and face up to what they are doing to the team at home. As for those who just want Lowe to go at any price - they are going the right way about it - because in due course he will just get fed up with it - but the price will be a bankrupt club and even lower league football. The way to save this club is for fans to support it. Is that a threat then Prof? **** Rupert off and he'll put us into Admin? More spite? More self-indulgent 'I know better than you' bollx? Improve the team by blooding less youngsters and they might have a chance. Too many, too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint francis Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 ..................Pld....W....D....L....Rank Home Record 14....1....6....7....24 Away Record 14....5....2....7....12 Overall Record 28...6....8..14....23 http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/teams/Southampton.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipstryker Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 A derisory thread from a terminally deluded luvvie. The club is on its knees by the hand of that foolish man and the best you can come up with is this inaccurate rubbish? The name Professor can rarely have been less apt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torbay Saint Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 I think it is not just down to our tactics, but the opposing team as well. When we play away from home, teams will attack us more. With our passing game it enables us to get forward on the counter. At home however, the away teams are more defensive. We tend to throw men forward which has left us exposed in certain areas. The crowd can play a part in motivating a team, but as we are dealing with professional players, I would like to think this is only small beer and professional pride would be enough motivation. Maybe I am being nieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the boy from saints Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 How many games have you been to this season Professor? I'm asking because I've been to about six and the crowd have been brilliant at all of them...especially considering the fact that things have been going steadily downhill for the last 5 years. There can't be many clubs in the Football League that have witnessed such a relentless tide of bad results, board decisions and general drop in league places - and despite this and the fact that the most hated Chairman in the club's history came back and replaced a popular manager full of potential, with a Dutch unknown, the fans still supported the team even though they'd only witnessed one home win in 14 games. I actually think the fans should be congratulated for still supporting the worst Saints team to be assembled, coached, and funded in living memory, with a board that gives them no hope for the future. Only the best football fans in the Country would still pay to cheer on a team in such a situation. Posts like this that criticise the fans make me really angry. The fans ARE the club. If no-one turn up to watch the Saints, the club wouldn't exist. We've put up with year after year of bodged decisions and worstening results and still the fans turn up to cheer the team on, even in this era of zero hope - a great set of fans if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englesaint Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 How many games have you been to this season Professor? I'm asking because I've been to about six and the crowd have been brilliant at all of them...especially considering the fact that things have been going steadily downhill for the last 5 years. There can't be many clubs in the Football League that have witnessed such a relentless tide of bad results, board decisions and general drop in league places - and despite this and the fact that the most hated Chairman in the club's history came back and replaced a popular manager full of potential, with a Dutch unknown, the fans still supported the team even though they'd only witnessed one home win in 14 games. I actually think the fans should be congratulated for still supporting the worst Saints team to be assembled, coached, and funded in living memory, with a board that gives them no hope for the future. Only the best football fans in the Country would still pay to cheer on a team in such a situation. Posts like this that criticise the fans make me really angry. The fans ARE the club. If no-one turn up to watch the Saints, the club wouldn't exist. We've put up with year after year of bodged decisions and worstening results and still the fans turn up to cheer the team on, even in this era of zero hope - a great set of fans if you ask me! Excellent post TBFS. The fans have generally done their best. There has only been genuinely negative stuff at the Doncaster game and then not directed at the players. This club is poorly managed from top down and the fans know it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 ..................Pld....W....D....L....Rank Home Record 14....1....6....7....24 Away Record 14....5....2....7....12 Overall Record 28...6....8..14....23 http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/teams/Southampton.html Do we get less points for winning away? Won 5, but only 12 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFHP Posted 24 January, 2009 Share Posted 24 January, 2009 What are the factors that enable the team to win away but not at home, to get 17 points away but only 8 points at home. The most obvious difference is that home games are played in front of a home crowd that should be supportive but is not. The negative attitudes shown by some people on this forum are indicative of the same attitudes taken by too many fans into the SMS. Until the Saints fans stop their obsession with Rupert Lowe and get behind the team, without negative and obscene chants, its likely that home performances will continue to be poor. If the negative fans want to see things improve, they need to take a reality check and face up to what they are doing to the team at home. As for those who just want Lowe to go at any price - they are going the right way about it - because in due course he will just get fed up with it - but the price will be a bankrupt club and even lower league football. The way to save this club is for fans to support it. Crap, our home form has nothing to do with us fans. If you went to home games you would know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_UK Posted 25 January, 2009 Share Posted 25 January, 2009 The difference is down to how the oppostion play agsinst us. JP played the same tactics home and away, his style of football was to play one up front wth midfiled getting forward to support, which works well on the counter attack. When we play away from home, and the oppostion play against us, this systems works, since we have a bit of space in which to play this style of football. However when we play at home, and the opposition stick 10 men behind the ball, we find it hard to break them down. What was really needed was different tactics at home, maybe playing 2 up front and taking the game to the opponents, but JP failed to realise this and stuck to his system which plainly was not working at SMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 January, 2009 Share Posted 25 January, 2009 So when we play away the home fans cheer our team do they? Surely the players must get more abuse at away grounds than they do at St. Mary's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 25 January, 2009 Share Posted 25 January, 2009 The system works better away from home when the wide players are more defensively minded and the opposition throw players forward. At SMS the away team are happy to let us pat it about and we leave ourselves wide open. The atmosphere at SMS does play a part though. These kids are playing in front of fans who have been used to years of Keegan, Channon, Shilton, Shearer, Le Tiss etc. The Northam gives good support but there are alot of moaners and the added pressure does not help at all. Weight of expectation is a big burden for footballers, it's way way worse for young inexperienced players. Even Le Tiss and Shearer were gradually introduced so that the pressure didn't get to them. These kids have been thrown straight in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camdijk Posted 25 January, 2009 Share Posted 25 January, 2009 Do we get less points for winning away? Won 5, but only 12 points I think you will find the 12 refers to the league position on away form. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 25 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 January, 2009 Crap, our home form has nothing to do with us fans. If you went to home games you would know that. I've been going to home games since 1967 and the level of vocal support, Northam excepted at times, is as bad as I can ever remember The Man U game was an example where their fans in their corner of the Northam didn't have to drown out the other three sides of the ground because our fans were virtually silent, even during the first half hour when we were holding them well and playing some good football. As for the Lowe out stuff, people should understand that Lowe will go at some time, but what matters is what replaces him. Wilde soon discovered that there are no easy answers to running a club with little money and lots of debt. If Lowe were to go now, just who do the Lowe outers think would run the club? But if its not poor home support that has made the same players and same tactics fail at home when they often succeed away, what else is it? The side have all the other advantages, of knowing the pitch, no travel hangovers, etc. In my football career, I was often aware that I tried harder at home to impress the home supporters, and sometimes just a small amount of extra motivation is enough to make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 25 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 25 January, 2009 more cr*p from the Prof. the crowd have been behind the team at sms all season. the reason behind the disparity btween home and away wins is purely down to the managers tactics or lack of at home. By all means present an alternative point of view, but it would carry more weight if it did not use abuse and actually had some logic to it. The same manager (or ex-manager, now) can't be adequate on team selection and tactics away and useless at home. There has to have been more to it. The fans may have been behind the team to some extent, but certainly not enough and not as vocally supportive as last season. My point is that one thing under the fan's control is the amount of supportive noise they make in the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 25 January, 2009 Share Posted 25 January, 2009 By all means present an alternative point of view, but it would carry more weight if it did not use abuse and actually had some logic to it. The same manager (or ex-manager, now) can't be adequate on team selection and tactics away and useless at home. There has to have been more to it. The fans may have been behind the team to some extent, but certainly not enough and not as vocally supportive as last season. My point is that one thing under the fan's control is the amount of supportive noise they make in the stadium. you seem to forget the other team and the tactics they employ may be different, you claim in an early post to have had a football career but you are being extremely naive if you expect the opposition to come to sms and roll over and let us play pretty football. They are all basically letting us have poessession between the 2 penalty areas because we are not hurting them , they also all appear to realise we run out of puff in home games because of all the ball we have in the first half and then step up the pace hence the reason we have fallen apart at home in the second half. I personally love to see quick one touch(alan ball style) football problem is ours is done for the sake of it rather than producing an end product. Goals win games not poesssion in your back 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 January, 2009 Share Posted 25 January, 2009 I've been going to home games since 1967 and the level of vocal support, Northam excepted at times, is as bad as I can ever remember The Man U game was an example where their fans in their corner of the Northam didn't have to drown out the other three sides of the ground because our fans were virtually silent, even during the first half hour when we were holding them well and playing some good football. As for the Lowe out stuff, people should understand that Lowe will go at some time, but what matters is what replaces him. Wilde soon discovered that there are no easy answers to running a club with little money and lots of debt. If Lowe were to go now, just who do the Lowe outers think would run the club? But if its not poor home support that has made the same players and same tactics fail at home when they often succeed away, what else is it? The side have all the other advantages, of knowing the pitch, no travel hangovers, etc. In my football career, I was often aware that I tried harder at home to impress the home supporters, and sometimes just a small amount of extra motivation is enough to make a difference. You can see from the responses that your contention that the poor home form is the result of poor home support from the fans is wide of the mark, so you are attempting to change direction by bringing in other issues to cloud the waters. I've been to every home game except the Doncaster one and can agree that despite our lowly position, the support has been consistently goodish. Certainly there has not been much in the way of negativity expressed vocally. Many reasons have been given as to why our home results are so pants, although our away results are tailing off too as we are in freefall. I tend to side with the opinion that we were too one dimensional under JP, the same formation home or away, easy for any half astute rival manager to counteract. As has also been pointed out, most opposition let us play our pretty passing football in two thirds of the pitch, sat back and defended everything thrown on them, then when we were really stretched, merely punted the ball forwards where we were weak defensively. Otherwise, they just shut us out and scored their goals from set pieces against our small or young, inexperienced defenders. Beating us was hardly rocket science. Unless you can provide more convincing reasons yourself for our poor home performances, then you will be forced to accept that some of the other reasons given here are correct, unless of course you can disparage them by irrefutable counter arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 25 January, 2009 Share Posted 25 January, 2009 Sam Green in the Telegraph, following Swansea's defeat of the Skates:- Portsmouth fans should have known better. The Premier League club's supporters spent much of Saturday's 2-0 FA Cup defeat by Championship artists Swansea booing winger Nathan Dyer, on loan to the Welsh side from Southampton - who are affectionately known as the 'Scummers' at Fratton Park. The results were predictable. Dyer, inspired by the abuse, was outstanding, scoring Swansea' first goal and generally sticking it to Southampton's Hampshire rivals at every twist and turn. When will fans learn that booing only inspires players? Portsmouth saw it first-hand, to their advantage, when Sol Campbell rose above the bile to remind everyone of his class - in both the footballing and human sense - at Tottenham six days earlier. Football is saturated with examples of players growing half a foot taller and 10 paces faster in the face of a good hard barracking. So what are your thoughts about that then, Prof? Perhaps we haven't been giving the team enough stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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