Israel

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

It's going to need to be something along those lines - there is no way this is getting destroyed without boots on the ground.

If the idiot believes that his actions have stopped Iran in their tracks, great that hopefully puts an end to it. I agree with Whelk that what's happend has shown Iran and Israel who's boss and has aerial dominance. Israel can pop back at anytime and do wtf they want to Israel, so hopefully that'll be a deterrent in itself. 

[skintsaint]

2 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Apparently, imaging and fuel for nuclear subs.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1781096272838990

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Apparently, imaging and fuel for nuclear subs.

Do you genuinely believe the horseshit you write?

Fact checking...

Iran currently has 3 submarines - all diesel electric built by the Russians.

It is believed Iran has around 450kg of enriched Uranium.

A nuclear submarine can run for about 25 years on 5kg of 'fuel'.

I've no idea how much Uranium is used in 'imaging' but if a nuclear sub can be powered for 25 years on 5kg, I suspect not much.

Iran therefore has enough 'fuel' to power roughly 80 nuclear subs for the next 25 years. That should sufficiently replace the 3 that they currently have, eh?

What's more likely, the nuclear sub theory or the nuclear weapons theory? Thickos need not attempt to answer.

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, egg said:

If the idiot believes that his actions have stopped Iran in their tracks, great that hopefully puts an end to it. I agree with Whelk that what's happend has shown Iran and Israel who's boss and has aerial dominance. Israel can pop back at anytime and do wtf they want to Israel, so hopefully that'll be a deterrent in itself. 

His discussion at Nato was ridiculous, likening it to letting two kids fight in the playground for a couple of minutes then stepping, sometimes Daddy needs to use some strong words. 

[Farmer Saint]

Trump's done well to get agreement at 5% defence spending at NATO - I suspect Keir wants that as well as it should help to boost our economy.

I guess we'll see how well the NATO countries hold up to that.

[AlexLaw76]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Trump's done well to get agreement at 5% defence spending at NATO - I suspect Keir wants that as well as it should help to boost our economy.

I guess we'll see how well the NATO countries hold up to that.

Not a chance in hell that sort of money, more than double (£80bn), will be spent of defence in the UK within 10 years.

Not without incredible accounting trickery, to a level we can’t even imagine 

the reality is, the leaders agreeing to this know many of them won’t be in power in 10 years, and know Trump definitely won’t, and they can go back to outsourcing defence to the USA

Edited June 25 by AlexLaw76

[Gloucester Saint]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

His discussion at Nato was ridiculous, likening it to letting two kids fight in the playground for a couple of minutes then stepping, sometimes Daddy needs to use some strong words. 

https://news.sky.com/story/nato-chief-heaps-praise-on-trump-at-meeting-after-us-president-cast-doubt-on-commitment-to-collective-defence-13388255

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not a chance in hell that sort of money, more than double (£80bn), will be spent of defence in the UK within 10 years.

Not without incredible accounting trickery, to a level we can’t even imagine 

the reality is, the leaders agreeing to this know many of them won’t be in power in 10 years, and know Trump definitely won’t, and they can go back to our-sourcing defence to the USA

We'll see - I guess the thought is that we will spend the majority here, on British made and developed defence, which means it will be far less than 5% in real cost. In addition, it will also lead to other countries investing in and purchasing from us.

[Farmer Saint]

If we could combine it with national service of some sort (or at least for those out of work and claiming JSA) and you have a combination of getting the young encouraged to go out and get jobs, or go into the forces, and removing them from benefits.

Edited June 25 by Farmer Saint

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

We'll see - I guess the thought is that we will spend the majority here, on British made and developed defence, which means it will be far less than 5% in real cost. In addition, it will also lead to other countries investing in and purchasing from us.

Incredible cuts are going to be made elsewhere to find at least £80bn, even if some of that is capital expenditure back in the UK for a period. 

[skintsaint]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not a chance in hell that sort of money, more than double (£80bn),

Isn't it 'only' £60bn? Still a lot to find.😅

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Isn't it 'only' £60bn? Still a lot to find.😅

The reality will be a minimal increase, magic accounting like what Osborne did when he was in Government, and lots of backtracking later this parliament. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not a chance in hell that sort of money, more than double (£80bn), will be spent of defence in the UK within 10 years.

 

There was an article the other day saying new recruits should be handed £10k for signing up.

Increase that to £500k and 160billion is easily achievable.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

31 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Isn't it 'only' £60bn? Still a lot to find.😅

60 billion isn't what it used to be... 🙂

60% of what HS2 might cost.

https://inews.co.uk/news/hs2-fraud-allegations-cost-pass-100bn-further-delays-3698024

Only twice the amount water companies were allowed to rack up debt

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-5078471/Britain-s-water-firms-flush-profits-tax-havens.html

Not quite only double test and trace which a report said made little difference

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-test-trace-dido-harding-report-b1814714.html

Our defence could be to spend 60 billion on lots of abandoned Brexit border facilities to line our borders at 50 million a time. About half a billion wasted so far on those.

https://news.sky.com/story/post-brexit-border-control-post-in-wales-to-sit-empty-13388153

A report combined some of the above to show 60 billion as just 60% wasted by the conservatives over 5 years

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/127/public-accounts-committee/news/161243/government-has-risked-lost-unacceptable-billions-of-taxpayers-money-in-its-covid-response-and-must-account-to-the-generations-that-will-pay-for-it/

 

Not that you'd spend 60 billion up front on defence. You'd spend a fraction of that safe in the knowledge that incompetence from contract negotiations and various cost overuns casual observers may consider border on corrupt will take you towards any total you set.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59876757

It was getting 40 billion a year in 2022, with none of it's 36 projects "being on time and within the original budget." The levels of waste and pocket stuffing will increase a lot faster, at 5%, than our safety.

 

[egg]

Not sure who the fella speaking is, but I like him. The smug look on the Israeli blokes face I don't like so much. 

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1ABFpiqSHD/

 

[Jonnyboy]

Like delldays says, incredible accounting trickery:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2025/06/dystopia-uk-genocidal-raf-squadron-targeted-by-palestine-action-is-owned-by-a-hedge-fund-and-leased-by-the-raf/

 

[Mixedkebab]

4 hours ago, egg said:

Not sure who the fella speaking is, but I like him. The smug look on the Israeli blokes face I don't like so much. 

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1ABFpiqSHD/

 

Why post a debate where the other participants’ views are edited out? The other one is an American not an Israeli.

Edited June 25 by Mixedkebab

[Mixedkebab]

14 hours ago, egg said:

If the idiot believes that his actions have stopped Iran in their tracks, great that hopefully puts an end to it. I agree with Whelk that what's happend has shown Iran and Israel who's boss and has aerial dominance. Israel can pop back at anytime and do wtf they want to Israel, so hopefully that'll be a deterrent in itself. 

Why would Israel pop back and do “wtf” they want to themselves?

[Mixedkebab]

On 24/06/2025 at 07:44, egg said:

Tulsi Gabbard said a few months ago that they were not building a bomb. After her update last week, she still didn't say that they were building a nuke. She actually said that they were "at the point that it can produce a nuclear weapon within weeks to months". Similarly, Japan are a "hop, skip and a jump".

The conclusion that a) they would build a bomb, and b) would use it, is opinion.

The former seems credible though, although the one question for me is whether in the talks they had stated a willingness to roll back enrichment to agreed pre 2018 levels. I wouldn't be surprised if they were but that the US were insisting on nothing at all, creating mutual red lines, and a pretext for attack. 

Anyways, we seem to have peace for now, so Israel can focus all their efforts on killing hungry people waiting for food. 

Anyways, I ain’t fallin’ for this Israeli bull, what they are doin’ just ain’t saintly anyways.

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Mixedkebab said:

Why post a debate where the other participants’ views are edited out? The other one is an American not an Israeli.

 

7 minutes ago, Mixedkebab said:

Why would Israel pop back and do “wtf” they want to themselves?

 

1 minute ago, Mixedkebab said:

Anyways, I ain’t fallin’ for this Israeli bull, what they are doin’ just ain’t saintly anyways.

Great contribution as always mate👏

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 minutes ago, Mixedkebab said:

Why would Israel pop back and do “wtf” they want to themselves?

Once Netanyahu is done with Iran and every terror group beginning with H, he can turn his attention internally?

[Farmer Saint]

 

[inspectorfrost]

On 24/06/2025 at 07:57, Farmer Saint said:

Luckily for Israel they tend to congregate around the aid centre's, along with women and children, so it's very easy to mow them down.

Interestingly acknowledged as "deliberate murder by US merceneries" in a recent UK parliamentary debate

[Farmer Saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5kk1w00xyo

[badgerx16]

On 23/06/2025 at 15:15, whelk said:

@badgerx16 has been quiet lately

 

On 23/06/2025 at 17:50, egg said:

Good point. Hopefully he's ok. 

Just de-toxing.

[rallyboy]

While the talentless self-promoting Glastonbury twats spouted a load of old shit and could well be charged with offences, is it wise for the UK Chief Rabbi to link the IDF and the international Jewish community as the same entity?

To label criticism of IDF war crimes as Jew-hatred is traditionally the lazy last resort distraction of the ill-informed and a tactic of professional lobbyists trying to shut down debate.

When he has the moral high ground, I think his choice of language was unwise.

 

 

 

 

[badgerx16]

If HAMAS was "destroyed as an organised fighting force", as the Israeli defence minister claimed last September, why are the IDF still bombing hospitals, aid distribution centres, and beach side cafes ?

Edited Tuesday at 10:18 by badgerx16

[whelk]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

 

Just de-toxing.

Welcome back badger - I would fill you in on what you missed but reckon you can pretty much guess

[badgerx16]

Just now, whelk said:

Welcome back badger - I would fill you in on what you missed but reckon you can pretty much guess

In the style of Hotblack Desiato in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I took a month off dead for tax reasons.

[Lighthouse]

56 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

While the talentless self-promoting Glastonbury twats spouted a load of old shit and could well be charged with offences, is it wise for the UK Chief Rabbi to link the IDF and the international Jewish community as the same entity?

To label criticism of IDF war crimes as Jew-hatred is traditionally the lazy last resort distraction of the ill-informed and a tactic of professional lobbyists trying to shut down debate.

When he has the moral high ground, I think his choice of language was unwise.

I think when you're only digusted when Jews do it, you've ventured into the realm of anti-semitism.

[rallyboy]

15 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I think when you're only digusted when Jews do it, you've ventured into the realm of anti-semitism.

Indeed, sadly there are people like that, they're called anti-semites.

There are other people who don't approve of civilians being killed for sport, they're called normal human beings. 

 

[Lighthouse]

6 hours ago, rallyboy said:

Indeed, sadly there are people like that, they're called anti-semites.

There are other people who don't approve of civilians being killed for sport, they're called normal human beings. 

 

Ah right. Apologies I don’t really follow Glastonbury so I missed all the ‘death to Hamas’, ‘death to Hezbollah’ and ‘death to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard’ chants.

[egg]

56 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Ah right. Apologies I don’t really follow Glastonbury so I missed all the ‘death to Hamas’, ‘death to Hezbollah’ and ‘death to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard’ chants.

I think you're a tad out of touch with popular thinking on this. 7/10/23 was on 7/10/23. A wee bit has happend since then. 

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Ah right. Apologies I don’t really follow Glastonbury so I missed all the ‘death to Hamas’, ‘death to Hezbollah’ and ‘death to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard’ chants.

I missed the chant against the starvation and killing of millions in the Congo and the chants against the Sudanese government. They seemed preoccupied with one particular conflict involving a specific nationality. In fact no mention of any of these other atrocities at all. 

[benjii]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I missed the chant against the starvation and killing of millions in the Congo and the chants against the Sudanese government. They seemed preoccupied with one particular conflict involving a specific nationality. In fact no mention of any of these other atrocities at all. 

Haha, knew this was coming.

[benjii]

I just read an interesting analysis, which I post below without comment, other than to note that it is quite long for a SW post...

* * *

On October 7, 2023, Hamas, an authoritarian, Iranian-backed militia that has ruled Gaza for 17 years, launched a carefully planned massacre. It killed 1,200 civilians, and took 250 hostages. It did so with full knowledge that such a move would trigger devastating retaliation. And it did. A brutal, urban war erupted. Tens of thousands have since died, many of them civilians, many of them militants. The war was horrific, tragic, and yes, entirely avoidable.

And yet, within days, hundreds of thousands marched across Western cities, not to denounce the massacre that sparked it all, nor to condemn the authoritarian militia responsible for using civilians as human shields, but to demand an end to what they instantly branded genocide.

By mid-May 2025, London had seen at least 27 mass marches in solidarity with Gaza. One of them numbered over a million people.

In contrast, during the darkest years of the Syrian civil war, when Assad used chemical weapons, barrel bombs, siege warfare, and starvation to subdue his population, London’s largest Syria-related protest peaked at 900 people. Most saw a few dozen.

That contrast tells us something deeply uncomfortable.

It’s not just about numbers. It’s about selectivity, and what it reveals.

Syria:
•650,000 dead
•14 million displaced
•100,000 executed in Sadnaya prison
•150,000 missing
•Genocide by starvation, siege, and sarin gas

And yet, no mass marches. No relentless protests. No weekly hashtags. No demands that the UN or the ICC act “now or else.”

Why?

Because this isn’t about genocide. If it were, Syria alone would have moved the Earth.

This is about something else.

What we are seeing is not solidarity - but a displaced moral fixation. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has become a symbolic canvas onto which all manner of disillusionment, guilt, and anger are projected. It is less about the facts on the ground and more about what the conflict represents.

To the radical left, Israel is a proxy for everything they despise: Western power, capitalism, nationalism, military strength, and in many cases, Jews themselves.

To the Islamists, it is the embodiment of a theological rupture, a state they believe should not exist.

To the bored and chronically online, it is a cause that offers identity, belonging, and purpose.

The result is an emotional obsession with Israel and its perceived sins. Not a principled stand against human suffering, but a ritualized spectacle where moral outrage is directed surgically at a single actor, regardless of the broader context.

And this obsession demands casualties - not for empathy, but for affirmation. The dead become evidence that the world is unjust, that the system must be torn down, that the protestor is on the side of the righteous.

Thus, death becomes currency, and only some deaths are accepted at full value. Syrian deaths are geopolitically inconvenient. Uyghur deaths are economically awkward. Rohingya deaths are logistically distant. But Palestinian deaths - so long as Israel can be blamed - are perfect.

It is why Egypt, which has sealed its border with Gaza and refused to accept refugees, is barely mentioned.
It is why Assad, praised openly by Hamas leaders like Yahya Sinwar, is never held to account in these circles.
It is why Iran, the primary funder and arms supplier of both Assad and Hamas, remains a shadowy afterthought.

We are not witnessing solidarity with Palestinians. We are witnessing a hijacking of their tragedy to service a very different political agenda - one that is less interested in peace or justice, and more interested in purging the West of its sins, real or imagined.

It’s not that these protestors don’t care. It’s that they’ve been trained - by ideology, by social media, by tribalism - to care in highly specific, narrowly sanctioned ways.
Care that flatters their identity.
Care that tells them they are good - because they are angry.

And in that economy of virtue, Gaza is profitable. Syria is not.

 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, benjii said:

Haha, knew this was coming.

If IDF were killed, what would happen to Israel do you think? 

[benjii]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

If IDF were killed, what would happen to Israel do you think? 

If the entire army of any country is killed, I would say it's looking pretty grim. 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, benjii said:

If the entire army of any country is killed, I would say it's looking pretty grim. 

So you could say that calling for the death of the main thing defending Israel is effectively calling for the destruction of the Jewish state. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, benjii said:

I just read an interesting analysis, which I post below without comment, other than to note that it is quite long for a SW post...

* * *

On October 7, 2023, Hamas, an authoritarian, Iranian-backed militia that has ruled Gaza for 17 years, launched a carefully planned massacre. It killed 1,200 civilians, and took 250 hostages. It did so with full knowledge that such a move would trigger devastating retaliation. And it did. A brutal, urban war erupted. Tens of thousands have since died, many of them civilians, many of them militants. The war was horrific, tragic, and yes, entirely avoidable.

And yet, within days, hundreds of thousands marched across Western cities, not to denounce the massacre that sparked it all, nor to condemn the authoritarian militia responsible for using civilians as human shields, but to demand an end to what they instantly branded genocide.

By mid-May 2025, London had seen at least 27 mass marches in solidarity with Gaza. One of them numbered over a million people.

In contrast, during the darkest years of the Syrian civil war, when Assad used chemical weapons, barrel bombs, siege warfare, and starvation to subdue his population, London’s largest Syria-related protest peaked at 900 people. Most saw a few dozen.

That contrast tells us something deeply uncomfortable.

It’s not just about numbers. It’s about selectivity, and what it reveals.

Syria:
•650,000 dead
•14 million displaced
•100,000 executed in Sadnaya prison
•150,000 missing
•Genocide by starvation, siege, and sarin gas

And yet, no mass marches. No relentless protests. No weekly hashtags. No demands that the UN or the ICC act “now or else.”

Why?

Because this isn’t about genocide. If it were, Syria alone would have moved the Earth.

This is about something else.

What we are seeing is not solidarity - but a displaced moral fixation. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has become a symbolic canvas onto which all manner of disillusionment, guilt, and anger are projected. It is less about the facts on the ground and more about what the conflict represents.

To the radical left, Israel is a proxy for everything they despise: Western power, capitalism, nationalism, military strength, and in many cases, Jews themselves.

To the Islamists, it is the embodiment of a theological rupture, a state they believe should not exist.

To the bored and chronically online, it is a cause that offers identity, belonging, and purpose.

The result is an emotional obsession with Israel and its perceived sins. Not a principled stand against human suffering, but a ritualized spectacle where moral outrage is directed surgically at a single actor, regardless of the broader context.

And this obsession demands casualties - not for empathy, but for affirmation. The dead become evidence that the world is unjust, that the system must be torn down, that the protestor is on the side of the righteous.

Thus, death becomes currency, and only some deaths are accepted at full value. Syrian deaths are geopolitically inconvenient. Uyghur deaths are economically awkward. Rohingya deaths are logistically distant. But Palestinian deaths - so long as Israel can be blamed - are perfect.

It is why Egypt, which has sealed its border with Gaza and refused to accept refugees, is barely mentioned.
It is why Assad, praised openly by Hamas leaders like Yahya Sinwar, is never held to account in these circles.
It is why Iran, the primary funder and arms supplier of both Assad and Hamas, remains a shadowy afterthought.

We are not witnessing solidarity with Palestinians. We are witnessing a hijacking of their tragedy to service a very different political agenda - one that is less interested in peace or justice, and more interested in purging the West of its sins, real or imagined.

It’s not that these protestors don’t care. It’s that they’ve been trained - by ideology, by social media, by tribalism - to care in highly specific, narrowly sanctioned ways.
Care that flatters their identity.
Care that tells them they are good - because they are angry.

And in that economy of virtue, Gaza is profitable. Syria is not.

 

That is 100% correct. Nice post. 

[benjii]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

So you could say that calling for the death of the main thing defending Israel is effectively calling for the destruction of the Jewish state. 

You could, if you wanted. But it would be sensible to consider if the person saying that is being literal or not.

Edited Tuesday at 20:41 by benjii

[hypochondriac]

Just now, benjii said:

You could if you were trying to be a hysterical tart.

Fortunate then that they made a considered and nuanced statement about Israel rather than a brainless and pathetic chant devoid of both. 

[benjii]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

That is 100% correct. Nice post. 

I can't take the credit!

[benjii]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Fortunate then that they made a considered and nuanced statement about Israel rather than a brainless and pathetic chant devoid of both. 

I edited my post.

[egg]

10 hours ago, benjii said:

I just read an interesting analysis, which I post below without comment, other than to note that it is quite long for a SW post...

* * *

On October 7, 2023, Hamas, an authoritarian, Iranian-backed militia that has ruled Gaza for 17 years, launched a carefully planned massacre. It killed 1,200 civilians, and took 250 hostages. It did so with full knowledge that such a move would trigger devastating retaliation. And it did. A brutal, urban war erupted. Tens of thousands have since died, many of them civilians, many of them militants. The war was horrific, tragic, and yes, entirely avoidable.

And yet, within days, hundreds of thousands marched across Western cities, not to denounce the massacre that sparked it all, nor to condemn the authoritarian militia responsible for using civilians as human shields, but to demand an end to what they instantly branded genocide.

By mid-May 2025, London had seen at least 27 mass marches in solidarity with Gaza. One of them numbered over a million people.

In contrast, during the darkest years of the Syrian civil war, when Assad used chemical weapons, barrel bombs, siege warfare, and starvation to subdue his population, London’s largest Syria-related protest peaked at 900 people. Most saw a few dozen.

That contrast tells us something deeply uncomfortable.

It’s not just about numbers. It’s about selectivity, and what it reveals.

Syria:
•650,000 dead
•14 million displaced
•100,000 executed in Sadnaya prison
•150,000 missing
•Genocide by starvation, siege, and sarin gas

And yet, no mass marches. No relentless protests. No weekly hashtags. No demands that the UN or the ICC act “now or else.”

Why?

Because this isn’t about genocide. If it were, Syria alone would have moved the Earth.

This is about something else.

What we are seeing is not solidarity - but a displaced moral fixation. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has become a symbolic canvas onto which all manner of disillusionment, guilt, and anger are projected. It is less about the facts on the ground and more about what the conflict represents.

To the radical left, Israel is a proxy for everything they despise: Western power, capitalism, nationalism, military strength, and in many cases, Jews themselves.

To the Islamists, it is the embodiment of a theological rupture, a state they believe should not exist.

To the bored and chronically online, it is a cause that offers identity, belonging, and purpose.

The result is an emotional obsession with Israel and its perceived sins. Not a principled stand against human suffering, but a ritualized spectacle where moral outrage is directed surgically at a single actor, regardless of the broader context.

And this obsession demands casualties - not for empathy, but for affirmation. The dead become evidence that the world is unjust, that the system must be torn down, that the protestor is on the side of the righteous.

Thus, death becomes currency, and only some deaths are accepted at full value. Syrian deaths are geopolitically inconvenient. Uyghur deaths are economically awkward. Rohingya deaths are logistically distant. But Palestinian deaths - so long as Israel can be blamed - are perfect.

It is why Egypt, which has sealed its border with Gaza and refused to accept refugees, is barely mentioned.
It is why Assad, praised openly by Hamas leaders like Yahya Sinwar, is never held to account in these circles.
It is why Iran, the primary funder and arms supplier of both Assad and Hamas, remains a shadowy afterthought.

We are not witnessing solidarity with Palestinians. We are witnessing a hijacking of their tragedy to service a very different political agenda - one that is less interested in peace or justice, and more interested in purging the West of its sins, real or imagined.

It’s not that these protestors don’t care. It’s that they’ve been trained - by ideology, by social media, by tribalism - to care in highly specific, narrowly sanctioned ways.
Care that flatters their identity.
Care that tells them they are good - because they are angry.

And in that economy of virtue, Gaza is profitable. Syria is not.

 

Well written, yes. Missing the point, yes. One person's opinion to align with their own views, yes. Balanced and getting teh point, no. 

What's happened in Syria is scandalous. Ditto the other conflicts mentioned.

What it fails to say is that peoples opinions about the occupation and Zionism predate the era of social media etc. People with long held views have not been "trained" to believe anything, that's just nonsense. Sure, many people's interest will have been sparked by SM etc, but that doesn't alter the underlying issue.

For balance, if people believe the publicity during the ongoing conflict, they'll believe that an issue with the conduct of the IDF amounts to anti-Semitism.  That erroneous belief and message has been circulated widely on both SM and the main stream. The article fails to mention that kind of programming because the author wants just one view to be heard. 

My issue with the Israeli actions against Palestinian people goes way back. Simply, they shouldn't be occupying the West Bank or restricting the lives of the Gaza people as they have. They shouldn't steal their houses, kill their kids, control most aspects of their lives, etc. In the present conflict, they had to react to the awful events of 7/10, but, they've gone completely OTT and down the other side. There's also the minor issue of wanting all the Palestinians out of Gaza, seeing them all as fair game, and the aiding and abetting from Trump with his apparent Riviera desires. 

My views are based on the Israeli government behaviour over a long time , and it's got nothing to do with the stuff in that article. That will be the case for many, but yeah, let's just make up a different narrative. 

 

[rallyboy]

It looks like the work of a first year psychology student who was asked to make a specific finding using provocative language normally associated with PR and lobbying.

I got the impression it was suggesting that those who shows concern about civilians in Gaza don't understand their own thoughts*, which the Brexit thickos claim is patronising, and I've also seen other arguments that concerns about conflicts are only valid if you list concerns about everywhere else at the same time.

I still believe that you are allowed to call out war crimes on a case-by-case basis, and I don't support the argument posted earlier that the UK Rabbi is anti-semetic because he linked the IDF with Jews everywhere, I just think he was unwise to use those words.

 

*If you want to confirm that your a little bit thick, just post a confused emoji down the bottom.

[whelk]

It’s just confirmation bias. The cause is easier for some and most don’t have a clue. 

[egg]

18 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

It looks like the work of a first year psychology student who was asked to make a specific finding using provocative language normally associated with PR and lobbying.

I got the impression it was suggesting that those who shows concern about civilians in Gaza don't understand their own thoughts*, which the Brexit thickos claim is patronising, and I've also seen other arguments that concerns about conflicts are only valid if you list concerns about everywhere else at the same time.

I still believe that you are allowed to call out war crimes on a case-by-case basis, and I don't support the argument posted earlier that the UK Rabbi is anti-semetic because he linked the IDF with Jews everywhere, I just think he was unwise to use those words.

 

*If you want to confirm that your a little bit thick, just post a confused emoji down the bottom.

Yep, this., including the last bit. 

[benjii]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

It looks like the work of a first year psychology student who was asked to make a specific finding using provocative language normally associated with PR and lobbying.

I got the impression it was suggesting that those who shows concern about civilians in Gaza don't understand their own thoughts*, which the Brexit thickos claim is patronising, and I've also seen other arguments that concerns about conflicts are only valid if you list concerns about everywhere else at the same time.

I still believe that you are allowed to call out war crimes on a case-by-case basis, and I don't support the argument posted earlier that the UK Rabbi is anti-semetic because he linked the IDF with Jews everywhere, I just think he was unwise to use those words.

 

*If you want to confirm that your a little bit thick, just post a confused emoji down the bottom.

 

2 hours ago, egg said:

Well written, yes. Missing the point, yes. One person's opinion to align with their own views, yes. Balanced and getting teh point, no. 

What's happened in Syria is scandalous. Ditto the other conflicts mentioned.

What it fails to say is that peoples opinions about the occupation and Zionism predate the era of social media etc. People with long held views have not been "trained" to believe anything, that's just nonsense. Sure, many people's interest will have been sparked by SM etc, but that doesn't alter the underlying issue.

For balance, if people believe the publicity during the ongoing conflict, they'll believe that an issue with the conduct of the IDF amounts to anti-Semitism.  That erroneous belief and message has been circulated widely on both SM and the main stream. The article fails to mention that kind of programming because the author wants just one view to be heard. 

My issue with the Israeli actions against Palestinian people goes way back. Simply, they shouldn't be occupying the West Bank or restricting the lives of the Gaza people as they have. They shouldn't steal their houses, kill their kids, control most aspects of their lives, etc. In the present conflict, they had to react to the awful events of 7/10, but, they've gone completely OTT and down the other side. There's also the minor issue of wanting all the Palestinians out of Gaza, seeing them all as fair game, and the aiding and abetting from Trump with his apparent Riviera desires. 

My views are based on the Israeli government behaviour over a long time , and it's got nothing to do with the stuff in that article. That will be the case for many, but yeah, let's just make up a different narrative. 

 

Yes, fair points.

I think parts of it are accurate for some of the protestors. I think, as you say, there are different motivations for others, although I think those motivations for all are very rarely motivated by a general dislike / enmity towards Jews.

I think another factor is how intimately the UK state is associated with this whole situation. We controlled Palestine, we signed the Balfour declaration, we washed our hands of it administratively in the face of Zionist terrorism, but politically , in the decades since, we have always been perceived as being at the right hand side of the US when it comes to support, military supplies etc. This is part of the reason why this issue attracts a lot more UK attention than, for example, Sudan or Myanmar.

 

Edited 23 hours ago by benjii

[Farmer Saint]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Well written, yes. Missing the point, yes. One person's opinion to align with their own views, yes. Balanced and getting teh point, no. 

What's happened in Syria is scandalous. Ditto the other conflicts mentioned.

What it fails to say is that peoples opinions about the occupation and Zionism predate the era of social media etc. People with long held views have not been "trained" to believe anything, that's just nonsense. Sure, many people's interest will have been sparked by SM etc, but that doesn't alter the underlying issue.

For balance, if people believe the publicity during the ongoing conflict, they'll believe that an issue with the conduct of the IDF amounts to anti-Semitism.  That erroneous belief and message has been circulated widely on both SM and the main stream. The article fails to mention that kind of programming because the author wants just one view to be heard. 

My issue with the Israeli actions against Palestinian people goes way back. Simply, they shouldn't be occupying the West Bank or restricting the lives of the Gaza people as they have. They shouldn't steal their houses, kill their kids, control most aspects of their lives, etc. In the present conflict, they had to react to the awful events of 7/10, but, they've gone completely OTT and down the other side. There's also the minor issue of wanting all the Palestinians out of Gaza, seeing them all as fair game, and the aiding and abetting from Trump with his apparent Riviera desires. 

My views are based on the Israeli government behaviour over a long time , and it's got nothing to do with the stuff in that article. That will be the case for many, but yeah, let's just make up a different narrative. 

 

I think it's far more simple than this.

The reason people are so against this is that 1st world, Western civilizations are meant to be morally upstanding and show control, which it seems Israel and the IDF haven't. As such there is far more media interest and reporting, and that people who wouldn't see the Sudan reporting, or the constant Syrian deaths under Assad, do see the reporting on Israel/Gaza.