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egg

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egg

egg

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is one of those requirements to remove the proscribed organisation from Government?

Surely The governance of a state is different to recognising the state itself?

It makes no sense to have an official policy of supporting a 2 state solution, but only recognise 1 state. That's a contradiction. 

It's possible to address both issues: we recognise the Palestinians right to statehood, and recognise the West Bank (without settlements)/East Jerusalem/Gaza as the Palestinian state, but do not agree with it's right to self governance in Gaza whilst there is an armed and ruling Hamas presence. 

It's academic though as the US will never get on board, and Israeli will continue to tell the world in one breath that they're fighting Hamas, but in the next breath say that they can't live next door to Palestinians and do all they can to force all of them out of a decimated land. 

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Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, egg said:

Surely The governance of a state is different to recognising the state itself?

It makes no sense to have an official policy of supporting a 2 state solution, but only recognise 1 state. That's a contradiction. 

It's possible to address both issues: we recognise the Palestinians right to statehood, and recognise the West Bank (without settlements)/East Jerusalem/Gaza as the Palestinian state, but do not agree with it's right to self governance in Gaza whilst there is an armed and ruling Hamas presence. 

It's academic though as the US will never get on board, and Israeli will continue to tell the world in one breath that they're fighting Hamas, but in the next breath say that they can't live next door to Palestinians and do all they can to force all of them out of a decimated land. 

Quite, and the headlines in the Telegraph and Mail today are pathetic. I’d have more respect, albeit strongly disagree, for their editors if they just said what they really want which is ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Those two are well out of lockstep with the British public.

Arab nations are putting a lot of pressure on the Palestinians to ditch Hamas and Iran if they want rebuilding help and the Palestinians badly need to start making some better choices. 

Edited by Gloucester Saint
Arab, not Aran
  • Like 3
egg

egg

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Posted
1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Trump is a cunt. 

 

That is all.

First part, absolutely. 

Second part, no. That is not all. 

  • Like 2
benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

Apparently Trump is fuming that he keeps getting referred to as being in the Epstein Files.

He feels this is unfair.

He thinks, as President, he deserves top billing and it should be more of a case of Epstein being named in the Trump Files.

  • Haha 2
egg

egg

Posted
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Posted
14 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

When's that happening? 

That's the condition of the Canada and UK position mate. Keep up. 

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, egg said:

That's the condition of the Canada and UK position mate. Keep up. 

Have a quote that Hamas "being taken out of the equation" is a requirement of recognition of a Palestinian state? 

egg

egg

Posted
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Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Have a quote that Hamas "being taken out of the equation" is a requirement of recognition of a Palestinian state? 

I think you're just being obtuse. 

Canada and the UK have put clear conditions on recognising a Palestinian state. They both provide for no Hamas involvement in running Gaza. 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, egg said:

I think you're just being obtuse. 

Canada and the UK have put clear conditions on recognising a Palestinian state. They both provide for no Hamas involvement in running Gaza. 

No Hamas involvement in running Gaza isn't removing Hamas from the equation. 

  • Confused 2
badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted

"Arab nations have taken the unprecedented step of telling Hamas to lay down its arms and surrender control of Gaza.

Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt called for the terrorist group to “disarm” and disband. It is the first time these countries have condemned Hamas and demanded it play no part in the future of Palestine. "

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestine-israel-gaza-hamas-qatar-egypt-saudi-arabia-b2799343.html

  • Like 2
sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted

147 of the 193 member nations of the UN recognise Palestine as a state. If that is in breach of international law and awful lot of lawyers have either given dodgy advice, or the nations have just decided to ignore the law.

It seems that most people, other than the Israelis, think that the best solution for all parties involved is the two state solution. Little wonder that Israel are kicking up such a stink given that they don’t want a two state solution and are actively trying to remove the Palestinians from their own land.

egg

egg

Posted
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Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

No Hamas involvement in running Gaza isn't removing Hamas from the equation. 

What do you want instead? Every Hamas member killed with whatever collateral damage that entails? Hamam disarmed and not in power is the most that's realistically possible. 

Anyways, what's your stance on recognising a Palestinian state? 

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, egg said:

What do you want instead? Every Hamas member killed with whatever collateral damage that entails? Hamam disarmed and not in power is the most that's realistically possible. 

Anyways, what's your stance on recognising a Palestinian state? 

It's not about what I want. Your claim was that "if Hamas are taken out of the equation" then there can be no reasonable objection to recognising a Palestinian state. My point was that simply stating that Hamas should not be involved in a new government of Palestine is not taking Hamas out of the equation. Clearly Israel are taking steps to attempt to prevent ongoing threats to their safety in the future as much as they possibly can. I'd be supportive of a Palestinian state in principle if Israel manage to achieve that to some degree. 

rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Clearly Israel are taking steps to attempt to prevent ongoing threats to their safety in the future as much as they possibly can. 

Do you think they've had some mission creep on that worthy aim and gone a little bit too war-crimey?

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Do you think they've had some mission creep on that worthy aim and gone a little bit too war-crimey?

I expect there's been some war crimes committed as there is in every war ever. I support full investigations into those and consequences for those involved in them. 

egg

egg

Posted
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Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It's not about what I want. Your claim was that "if Hamas are taken out of the equation" then there can be no reasonable objection to recognising a Palestinian state. My point was that simply stating that Hamas should not be involved in a new government of Palestine is not taking Hamas out of the equation. Clearly Israel are taking steps to attempt to prevent ongoing threats to their safety in the future as much as they possibly can. I'd be supportive of a Palestinian state in principle if Israel manage to achieve that to some degree. 

What needs to happen to give Israel safety? Kill thousands more civilians under the guise of taking out a few Hamas blokes? If something else, what would that be? 

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