St Mary's Stadium

[Weston Super Saint]

20 minutes ago, Football Special said:

And this will fill the space north of the ground 

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/24368830.hundreds-homes-approved-southampton-gasworks-site/

They've been in discussion for 9 years regarding that.

Dragan has got zero hope of getting his dreams signed off for another decade - MLG will have a meltdown.

[BarberSaint]

9 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

The development in part would be to change that perception through gentrification of the surrounding area

 

 

And make all the people there homeless?

 

Or just sell flats to more tourists?

 

Neither seems good and long-term if you want people who are interested in SFC. As for shopping centres, how's the Bargate and East Street these days?

[Convict Colony]

34 minutes ago, Football Special said:

But as a prostitute using concrete enthusiast you've sold the project to me, get it done Dragan 

I only skim read after gentrification argument but tell me more about this ?

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

And make all the people there homeless?

I didn't say they'd use that land.

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

As for shopping centres, how's the Bargate and East Street these days?

I did not say shopping centres. Nor did I say loads of shops.

[BarberSaint]

4 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Man City's and West Ham's stadiums are catalysts for development in the surrounding areas. Birmingham City are planning for that as well.

 

 

Er...

 

Oh I cba to argue with the muppet.

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, BarberSaint said:

Er...

Oh I cba to argue with the muppet.

Stop mispresenting what I've said would help you.

[BarberSaint]

3 hours ago, franniesTache said:

Ah yes Man City's staidum that was built for the Commonwealth games and came with investment in sports facilities into an area already being redeveloped, and The Olympic stadium that was built for the Olympics including landscaping an area of east london that was already getting significant investment because London was moving east (via a huge olympic investment fund) are perfect examples of how grounds that weren't built for football can be examples of football grounds gentrifying areas 🤣

Next you're going to tell me that Salford changing is down to proposed plans for Old Trafford and nothing to do with Media City and the investment in Salford there.

In fact i'm going to revise my question of do you live in Southampton, to have you ever left your mum's bedroom? Because you've clearly never been to London or Manchester.

Oh and btw i worked in Manchester and lived in East London so know that neither had anything to do with Man City or West Ham....

 

 

Me too, but I'm not you.

 

[Matthew Le God]

51 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

We're only a few weeks away from MLG denying he ever said any of it could happen or might happen and he'll deny that he ever even wanted it to happen. So there's that to look forward to.

You now quoting people misrepresenting what I've said, does not help. That one was from the King of Fallacies himself.

[Matthew Le God]

3 hours ago, franniesTache said:

Oh and btw i worked in Manchester and lived in East London so know that neither had anything to do with Man City or West Ham....

I did not say they did. It is irrelevant to the point I was making that developments are catalysts for further development. Fallacy after fallacy from some people on here!

Edited June 24 by Matthew Le God

[ErwinK1961]

14 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I did not say they did. It is irrelevant to the point I was making that developments are catalysts for further development. Fallacy after fallacy from some people on here!

I’m not sure you even understand the point you’re making anymore tbh. 

[Give it to Ron]

56 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I did not say they did. It is irrelevant to the point I was making that developments are catalysts for further development. Fallacy after fallacy from some people on here!

No you said gentrification of the area…so have a look at White Star flats for sale why do you think so many?, Northam estate and tower blocks pulled down? What about all businesses around Britannia rd relocate ? Have you seen what they are and serve? Are we going as far as Derby Rd area? Or just along by Shamrock Quay ?

Before you get suckered in by the hundreds of millions comments it may help you to understand St Mary’s and the area around it and the vast amount of money it will require to gentrify it.

No-one will spending sums required for such a gamble to be on a neighbourhood with so many social issues next door. If they won’t do Mayflower Park and The Pier why would anyone as suggested- all I can see is another Centenary Quay flats built.

I spent a lot of my childhood in that area as my nan lived in Anderson’s Road.

As long as leave the Joiners alone …..

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

You now quoting people misrepresenting what I've said, does not help. That one was from the King of Fallacies himself.

So you think this all a terrible idea and you don't want any of it to happen? Is that what you're saying?

[Matthew Le God]

15 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

So you think this all a terrible idea and you don't want any of it to happen? Is that what you're saying?

I haven't said anything remotely close to that. Plus in any case, we don't fully know what the 'idea' is apart from an ambition for an unknown amount of extra seats, plus some kind of wider development beyond the stadium. 

[Convict Colony]

Guys can we get back to how wage estimates are sourced and which website is the most believable.

[Midfield_General]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

I did not say shopping centres. Nor did I say loads of shops.

 

23 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

I'd guess things like hotels, shops, restaurants

😬 

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

 

😬

Thank you for proving I did not say "shopping centres" or "loads of shops". Plus you didn't post all my suggestions. 

Edited June 24 by Matthew Le God

[Charlie Wayman]

Don't get too excited, we've been here before with Cortese. For starters just think of the nightmare of getting planning permision to do anything at the SM site. A lot more people live down there now than back in 2000 when the stadium was built. Plenty of NIMBYS in those flats I'll bet not to mention change of use battles if the Club tried to acquire local businesses to create space for its ambitions. Could take years to deliver even with goodwill and a trailing wind.

[Midfield_General]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Thank you for proving I did not say "shopping centres" or "loads of shops". Plus you didn't post all my suggestions. 

How many shops do you think there will be? 

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Don't get too excited, we've been here before with Cortese. For starters just think of the nightmare of getting planning permision to do anything at the SM site. 

Some significant differences between this and what Cortese did in 2012!

1) Cortese was not the owner or financial backer... Solak is.

2) Cortese and the city council did not release they had a MOU, like we had in December 2024 under Solak.

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

How many shops do you think there will be? 

I have no idea. Might not even be any. Beyond an unknown amount for a capacity expansion, what the rest of the plans are is unknown.

[Midfield_General]

3 hours ago, Football Special said:

Joking aside, when the big cruise ships are in there's a real shortage of hotel rooms in the city, not sure any of them would want to stay next to Northam estate though. It's bad enough by the Premier Inn , went past there recently at 10am, crack addict stood in the underpass with his trousers round his ankles pissing against the wall , definitely room for some gentrification to be done 

Yeah sorry about that, I was just passing the time before my official guided tour of the cement plant started

[SuperSAINT]

Random but loosely linked memory — does anyone remember when somebody made a MLG dummy profile and went onto Jonas Brothers forums with architectural renders of the Cortese St Mary’s stadium proposals?! 
 

I don’t know where the hell that has come from in my memory banks. 

Edited June 24 by SuperSAINT

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, SuperSAINT said:

Random but loosely linked memory — does anyone remember when somebody made a MLG dummy profile and went onto Jonas Brothers forums with architectural renders of the Cortese St Mary’s stadium proposals?! 

I don’t know where the hell that has come from in my memory banks. 

Sounds like a fever dream, but yes that did happen! 

[suewhistle]

4 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

You'll start to see a few more of the businesses around the stadium catch aflame over the next few years.

Well, I hope they avoid doing it on match days. That was a right pain..

[suewhistle]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

We're only a few weeks away from MLG denying he ever said any of it could happen or might happen and he'll deny that he ever even wanted it to happen. So there's that to look forward to.

With the additional bonus of fewer of CB Fry's ponderous attempts at sarcastic humour.

[Tamesaint]

Is there any chance of Dragan getting a train station built at SMS? A train line runs nearby. Coventry have a station next to their ground and a starion next to SMS would ease matchday congestion. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

To be fair, as far fetched a project as it may be, it would be an undeniable massive improvement for the area around SMS to see the cement works (and other undesirable businesses) moved away with appropriate reparations to the land/waterside. Unfortunately SCC will not have what it takes to make it happen.

Edited June 24 by Saint Fan CaM
Typo

[Chez]

7 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

To be fair, as far fetched a project as it may be, it would be an undeniable massive improvement for the area around SMS to see the cement works (and other undesirable businesses) moved away with appropriate reparations to the land/waterside. Unfortunately SCC will not have what it takes to make it happen.

Undesirable? If you work in these businesses or need cement for example, they are quite desirable. Cities need workplaces. 

[SW11_Saint]

12 hours ago, Football Special said:

The gasworks has gone now hasn't it? Plans to build flats on it I think  

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/24368830.hundreds-homes-approved-southampton-gasworks-site/

 

But as a prostitute using concrete enthusiast you've sold the project to me, get it done Dragan 

That plan fell through - latest is that site is earmarked for the proposed 15k indoor arena (concerts, conferences etc). Think it was referenced in the ‘memo of understanding’ between SFC & SCC, along with the development of the waterfront where the cement works is. 

[Weston Super Saint]

9 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Some significant differences between this and what Cortese did in 2012!

1) Cortese was not the owner or financial backer... Solak is.

2) Cortese and the city council did not release they had a MOU, like we had in December 2024 under Solak.

Can you provide links to the land that Solak 'owns'?

Pretty sure he doesn't 'own' all the land around the stadium that will be enough to 'gentrify' the area and build an undetermined number of shops of unknown size.  Certainly doesn't own enough land to spend 'hundreds of millions' on.

[Nolan]

3 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

That plan fell through - latest is that site is earmarked for the proposed 15k indoor arena (concerts, conferences etc). Think it was referenced in the ‘memo of understanding’ between SFC & SCC, along with the development of the waterfront where the cement works is. 

I'm not sure you're correct there. I would anticipate any indoor arena be to the South of the Site where the industrial estate is.

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

1 minute ago, SW11_Saint said:

That plan fell through - latest is that site is earmarked for the proposed 15k indoor arena (concerts, conferences etc). Think it was referenced in the ‘memo of understanding’ between SFC & SCC, along with the development of the waterfront where the cement works is. 

First I’ve heard of that, the flats are still current on the SCC planning portal - probably will be ditched eventually like many others plans and I’m sure the club would be standing by…

13 minutes ago, Chez said:

Undesirable? If you work in these businesses or need cement for example, they are quite desirable. Cities need workplaces. 

For a city with a river running almost through the middle it certainly has missed out on using it as a focal point like most other big cities. All around the world most of the best cities make it a major feature and leisure attraction. I believe eventually the city vision is for one long riverside promenade from Ocean Village through to St Denys

[Kenilworthy59]

8 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Is there any chance of Dragan getting a train station built at SMS? A train line runs nearby. Coventry have a station next to their ground and a starion next to SMS would ease matchday congestion. 

I live not far from Coventry. And bizarrely they actively discourage people from using the Arena station on matchdays as they don't think it has the capacity to cope. So one asset that would be really useful they don't use. And last time we played there in the evening I had got my ticket in advance and they cancelled the train at the last moment

[SW11_Saint]

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Can you provide links to the land that Solak 'owns'?

Pretty sure he doesn't 'own' all the land around the stadium that will be enough to 'gentrify' the area and build an undetermined number of shops of unknown size.  Certainly doesn't own enough land to spend 'hundreds of millions' on.

Not sure he (or the club) own any of it atm - other than the areas immediately adjacent to the stadium, currently being used. The MOU sets out though that land around can be jointly developed by SFC & SCC. 
https://www.coliseum-online.com/st-marys-waterfront-pioneering-plans/

 

[Weston Super Saint]

17 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Not sure he (or the club) own any of it atm - other than the areas immediately adjacent to the stadium, currently being used. The MOU sets out though that land around can be jointly developed by SFC & SCC. 
https://www.coliseum-online.com/st-marys-waterfront-pioneering-plans/

 

The non legally binding MoU that sets out a 'vision'?  Perhaps SCC don't know that Dragan doesn't own any of the land referred to?  Not sure they have any power to issue compulsory purchase orders either, so the 'hundreds of millions' could be blown on just purchasing the land - especially now that the legal owners are aware that someone could potentially want to buy it, I'm sure their asking price will rocket!

[SW11_Saint]

42 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

First I’ve heard of that, the flats are still current on the SCC planning portal - probably will be ditched eventually like many others plans and I’m sure the club would be standing by…

For a city with a river running almost through the middle it certainly has missed out on using it as a focal point like most other big cities. All around the world most of the best cities make it a major feature and leisure attraction. I believe eventually the city vision is for one long riverside promenade from Ocean Village through to St Denys

Unfortunately, unlike other coastal cities, Southampton is at the mercy of ABP who have absolute power and control over all waterfront areas, via an act of Parliament. Pretty much means they can do what they want and they naturally try to gain commercially from all waterfront spaces. 
 

Case in point, when they demolished the beautiful and historic Rank Hovis building - the City Council, all city MPs, Heritage Associations and most citizens were against it. They did it anyway. It’s sister building in Gateshead is a beautiful & thriving arts centre (The Baltic Centre), putting aside the fact they retained an important architectural landmark. 
 

Anyway, it appears ABP are onboard with the current plans for the City. Massive plan to redevelop the Town Quay area too. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2e972rrygo
(Can’t see it referenced here, but look closely at the map - there appears to be another structure to the right of SMS)

Town Quay development:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c51nzm1zm40o 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 07:44 by SW11_Saint

[Midfield_General]

8 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Is there any chance of Dragan getting a train station built at SMS? A train line runs nearby. Coventry have a station next to their ground and a starion next to SMS would ease matchday congestion. 

Definitely. We've got hundreds of millions to spend, which is more than enough to buy all the land in the entire SO14 postcode, relocate everyone who currently has a home or business there, raze it all to the ground, rebuild it as a gentrified tourist destination with 

On 23/06/2025 at 22:09, Matthew Le God said:

things like hotels, shops, restaurants, offices, accommodation and maybe an indoor arena/conference hall

and then do all the development work to St Mary's to add the 6,000 extra seats. We'll definitely need a train station, so we'll add one of those, and then I was thinking maybe a small airport? Doesn't have to be a big one, just one the size of Luton or Stansted would be fine. Space for the runway might be a problem but we can just fill in that part of the River Itchen, reclaim the land to build an artificial island and then put it on that. They did that in Hong Kong and it worked really well. 

Then once that's done I reckon we should have enough left over for Josh Sargent.

Because we've got hundreds of millions. 

[Nolan]

Plans are currently in for a new Warehouse to replace the Old burnt out warehouse.

25/00284/FUL

it lists the owner as Coal Pension Properties Ltd, so it does what it says on the tin. Its a Coal miners union pension investment.

the plans were put forward based on the OLD city plan and not the 'renaissance' plan.

I would hope whatever Dragan's plan are, it will involve buying this from them.

[SW11_Saint]

10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The non legally binding MoU that sets out a 'vision'?  Perhaps SCC don't know that Dragan doesn't own any of the land referred to?  Not sure they have any power to issue compulsory purchase orders either, so the 'hundreds of millions' could be blown on just purchasing the land - especially now that the legal owners are aware that someone could potentially want to buy it, I'm sure their asking price will rocket!

I’m pretty sure they know what Dragan/the club does and doesn’t own. They aren’t buying any housing around the ground. It’s all either ‘wasteland’ already or commercial land where negotiations have already taken place. 

[Charlie Wayman]

9 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Is there any chance of Dragan getting a train station built at SMS? A train line runs nearby. Coventry have a station next to their ground and a starion next to SMS would ease matchday congestion. 

No

[spyinthesky]

6 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Unfortunately, unlike other coastal cities, Southampton is at the mercy of ABP who have absolute power and control over all waterfront areas, via an act of Parliament. Pretty much means they can do what they want and they naturally trying to gain commercially from all waterfront spaces. 
 

Case in point, when they demolished the beautiful and historic Rank Hovis building - the City Council, all city MPs, Heritage Associations and most citizens were against it. They did it anyway. It’s sister building in Gateshead is a beautiful & thriving arts centre (The Baltic Centre), putting aside the fact they retained an important architectural landmark. 
 

Anyway, it appears ABP are onboard with the current plans for the City. Massive plan to redevelop the Town Quay area too. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2e972rrygo
(Can’t see it referenced here, but look closely at the map - there appears to be another structure to the right of SMS)

Town Quay development:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c51nzm1zm40o 

 

 

 

Point of detail.
ABP are the Harbour Authority so have legal authority to manage the waterside from Eling up to the end of Southampton Water.
They also hold the freehold of the historically reclaimed from the sea by previous port companies dating back to 1835.
However they have no interest in the land along the Itchen Riverside which includes the area around St Marys Stadium.
They are likely to be working with the football club and the city council to find a home for the Aggregate Companies who currently operate on the quayside right outside the stadium.

[SW11_Saint]

10 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

No

Actually enhanced transport links are part of the Renaissance plan, and as I understand it that includes investigating a potential rail link to SMS. 
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:02 by SW11_Saint

[SW11_Saint]

4 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Point of detail.
ABP are the Harbour Authority so have legal authority to manage the waterside from Eling up to the end of Southampton Water.
They also hold the freehold of the historically reclaimed from the sea by previous port companies dating back to 1835.
However they have no interest in the land along the Itchen Riverside which includes the area around St Marys Stadium.
They are likely to be working with the football club and the city council to find a home for the Aggregate Companies who currently operate on the quayside right outside the stadium.

I looked again and ABP are listed as a Partner in the Renaissance prospectus. Good news that they are involved and onboard. As you point out less of an issue for the area adjacent to SMS, but critical for the Town Quay plans. 

[Weston Super Saint]

21 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Plans are currently in for a new Warehouse to replace the Old burnt out warehouse.

25/00284/FUL

it lists the owner as Coal Pension Properties Ltd, so it does what it says on the tin. Its a Coal miners union pension investment.

the plans were put forward based on the OLD city plan and not the 'renaissance' plan.

I would hope whatever Dragan's plan are, it will involve buying this from them.

So it can be knocked down and a new indoor arena built?

Good job we've got hundreds of millions to spend!

[SW11_Saint]

1 hour ago, Nolan said:

I'm not sure you're correct there. I would anticipate any indoor arena be to the South of the Site where the industrial estate is.

Not sure, just something I heard or read somewhere (though can’t find now!). The gasworks would make sense in some ways as parking at SMS could be utilised, and a bit closer to any train links they might come up with. If true, I’d be happy wherever they develop it! The city badly needs it. 

[SW11_Saint]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So it can be knocked down and a new indoor arena built?

Good job we've got hundreds of millions to spend!

It isn’t built yet. So doesn’t need to be ‘knocked down’…

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

30 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Point of detail.
ABP are the Harbour Authority so have legal authority to manage the waterside from Eling up to the end of Southampton Water.
They also hold the freehold of the historically reclaimed from the sea by previous port companies dating back to 1835.
However they have no interest in the land along the Itchen Riverside which includes the area around St Marys Stadium.
They are likely to be working with the football club and the city council to find a home for the Aggregate Companies who currently operate on the quayside right outside the stadium.

As I understand it the Aggregate companies lease those riverside plots which actually have another 10 years or so on the current arrangements but the idea is to try and relocate them before then. One such plant has recently set up in the docks, maybe step up Dibden Bay?

I occasionally have a browse on this site which is pretty good for seeing what’s going on or planned for Southampton - there’s one or two informed posters on there (including at least one city councillor)

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forums/southampton-developments.4534/

I did notice MLG has posted on there about the stadium!

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/forums/cultural-sporting-and-entertainment-venues.218/

[Football Special]

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

That plan fell through - latest is that site is earmarked for the proposed 15k indoor arena (concerts, conferences etc). Think it was referenced in the ‘memo of understanding’ between SFC & SCC, along with the development of the waterfront where the cement works is. 

That's very interesting, is there any link to those plans? Good luck to them 

[SW11_Saint]

15 minutes ago, Football Special said:

That's very interesting, is there any link to those plans? Good luck to them 

I swear I read a reference to it (the arena stuff), but can’t find. Wider plans are in the links above. I do know the original housing plan for the gasworks site isn’t going ahead.