Jack Stephens

[saintant]

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

If our strikers from last season were lining up against us we’d be delighted too… 

Armstrong and Archer have scored plenty of goals in the Championship.

[SW11_Saint]

51 minutes ago, saintant said:

Armstrong and Archer have scored plenty of goals in the Championship.

In the past. Arma at WBA? 🤔

[coalman]

54 minutes ago, saintant said:

Armstrong and Archer have scored plenty of goals in the Championship.

In the same way as with Stephens that doesn't mean we should be offering them new contracts ahead of this season.

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, coalman said:

In the same way as with Stephens that doesn't mean we should be offering them new contracts ahead of this season.

I didn't suggest we should.

[SW11_Saint]

12 minutes ago, coalman said:

In the same way as with Stephens that doesn't mean we should be offering them new contracts ahead of this season.

Certainly not Armstrong. Time for him to move on. 

[saintant]

19 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Certainly not Armstrong. Time for him to move on. 

Yet some approve of a 3 year contract for Stephens who is older and has had far less success than AA. Bonkers.

[trousers]

42 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

In the past. Arma at WBA? 🤔

Wasn't he played out of his best position whilst there though? (Supposedly)

#context

Edited 9 hours ago by trousers

[Saint86]

Thoughts on Stephens.

At this stage of his career, i cannot see him improving to ever be good enough to become a starting premier league CB. I hope this is considered within the wage he has been offered (i.e., wage promotion clause is smaller than for others for example). If not, i really don't understand the contract extension.

Stephens is a good enough player for the championship in fairness to him.

From a dressing room perspective, he is a character, and he does love the club - those are positives.

Since 2023/24 season, we've played under Jones, Selles, Martin, Juric, and Rusk. That is either managers that can't set up a team to defend if their lives depended on it, or (and - lets be honest) terrible sides - of which Stephens has played his part. But we've been unsettled at the back throughout that whole period and i'm willing to accept that may have coloured my overall view of him as a player.

Will Still though, is another proposition. His defensive setup is resilient - most clean sheets in the league last season with Lens (13), and that was despite losing a host of key players throughout the team. He also likes aggression, shithousery, and they had the most red cards (8😬😅)... Stephens will probably fit like a well worn glove. 

This may also be good for Bazunu in some ways - in that we won't be playing suicide football right in front of his goal, and we'll likely be limiting chances for sudden turnovers etc which is where so many of our goals against have come in previous years.

Edited 9 hours ago by Saint86

[saintant]

5 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Thoughts on Stephens.

At this stage of his career, i cannot see him improving to ever be good enough to become a starting premier league CB. I hope this is considered within the wage he has been offered (i.e., wage promotion clause is smaller than for others for example). If not, i really don't understand the contract extension.

Stephens is a good enough player for the championship in fairness to him.

From a dressing room perspective, he is a character, and he does love the club - those are positives.

Since 2023/24 season, we've played under Jones, Selles, Martin, Juric, and Rusk. That is either managers that can't set up a team to defend if their lives depended on it, or (and - lets be honest) terrible sides - of which Stephens has played his part. But we've been unsettled at the back throughout that whole period and i'm willing to accept that may have coloured my overall view of him as a player.

Will Still though, is another proposition. His defensive setup is resilient - most clean sheets in the league last season with Lens (13), and that was despite losing a host of key players throughout the team. He also likes aggression, shithousery, and they had the most red cards (8😬😅)... Stephens will probably fit like a well worn glove. 

This may also be good for Bazunu in some ways - in that we won't be playing suicide football right in front of his goal, and we'll likely be limiting chances for sudden turnovers etc which is where so many of our goals against have come in previous years.

If Will Still prides himself on managing teams who let in few goals he'd do well to avoid picking Bazunu as his 'keeper.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

43 minutes ago, coalman said:

In the same way as with Stephens that doesn't mean we should be offering them new contracts ahead of this season.

With Stephens getting an extension, what are thoughts of others expiring in 2026, pinched from @Over land and sea's super thread.

 2026

    Alex McCarthy
    James Bree
    Armel Bella-Kotchap
    Charlie Taylor
    Joe Aribo
    Will Smallbone
    Ryan Fraser
    Ross Stewart
    Dom Ballard

Bree would be one.  Fine in the Championship, and not the worst in our PL (low bar) season.

McCarthy could find himself first choice if Ramsdale goes, but is a decent back up to have)

No idea what happened with Taylor. If he works well under Still,he's got plenty of experience.

I'd love to see Will capture and I prove on his last Championship season. But I think he just did well under Martin, and might not suit other systems.

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

With Stephens getting an extension, what are thoughts of others expiring in 2026, pinched from @Over land and sea's super thread.

 2026

    Alex McCarthy
    James Bree
    Armel Bella-Kotchap
    Charlie Taylor
    Joe Aribo
    Will Smallbone
    Ryan Fraser
    Ross Stewart
    Dom Ballard

Bree would be one.  Fine in the Championship, and not the worst in our PL (low bar) season.

McCarthy could find himself first choice if Ramsdale goes, but is a decent back up to have)

No idea what happened with Taylor. If he works well under Still,he's got plenty of experience.

I'd love to see Will capture and I prove on his last Championship season. But I think he just did well under Martin, and might not suit other systems.

Yeah, agree with you on Bree. I'd see how Stewart does in the first 15 games or so and then make a decision based on that. The rest I wouldn't worry about seeking extensions - maybe Aribo if he stays and does well.

[coalman]

9 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

With Stephens getting an extension, what are thoughts of others expiring in 2026, pinched from @Over land and sea's super thread.

 2026

    Alex McCarthy
    James Bree
    Armel Bella-Kotchap
    Charlie Taylor
    Joe Aribo
    Will Smallbone
    Ryan Fraser
    Ross Stewart
    Dom Ballard

Bree would be one.  Fine in the Championship, and not the worst in our PL (low bar) season.

McCarthy could find himself first choice if Ramsdale goes, but is a decent back up to have)

No idea what happened with Taylor. If he works well under Still,he's got plenty of experience.

I'd love to see Will capture and I prove on his last Championship season. But I think he just did well under Martin, and might not suit other systems.

Whole lotta no and it depends for Stewart and Taylor

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Problem with the captaincy thing is Jack pretty much gets it by default - by virtue of being the only one who will open his mouth and bark out encouragement / orders etc. 

I'm not really sure I've seen that from him on a consistent basis. Last season when we inevitably conceded goal after goal, all too often when he played he just stood there with his hands on his hips looking around. Don't really recall much leadership/vocal encouragment then. Like a lot of our players, he goes missing when the going gets tough on the pitch. 

[Oh no Mick Mills]

24 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Thoughts on Stephens.

At this stage of his career, i cannot see him improving to ever be good enough to become a starting premier league CB. I hope this is considered within the wage he has been offered (i.e., wage promotion clause is smaller than for others for example). If not, i really don't understand the contract extension.

Stephens is a good enough player for the championship in fairness to him.

From a dressing room perspective, he is a character, and he does love the club - those are positives.

Since 2023/24 season, we've played under Jones, Selles, Martin, Juric, and Rusk. That is either managers that can't set up a team to defend if their lives depended on it, or (and - lets be honest) terrible sides - of which Stephens has played his part. But we've been unsettled at the back throughout that whole period and i'm willing to accept that may have coloured my overall view of him as a player.

Will Still though, is another proposition. His defensive setup is resilient - most clean sheets in the league last season with Lens (13), and that was despite losing a host of key players throughout the team. He also likes aggression, shithousery, and they had the most red cards (8😬😅)... Stephens will probably fit like a well worn glove. 

This may also be good for Bazunu in some ways - in that we won't be playing suicide football right in front of his goal, and we'll likely be limiting chances for sudden turnovers etc which is where so many of our goals against have come in previous years.

Totally agree with this assessment.  

[beatlesaint]

6 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I'm not really sure I've seen that from him on a consistent basis. Last season when we inevitably conceded goal after goal, all too often when he played he just stood there with his hands on his hips looking around. Don't really recall much leadership/vocal encouragment then. Like a lot of our players, he goes missing when the going gets tough on the pitch. 

Tbf a lot of those hands on his hips looking around moments were when he was responsible for the conceded goal 🤣

[SW11_Saint]

23 minutes ago, trousers said:

Wasn't he played out of his best position whilst there though? (Supposedly)

#context

Not sure what his best position is tbh, but I think it’s time for him to move on regardless. Doubt he’ll fancy being 4th choice (at best) striker either…

[trousers]

13 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I'm not really sure I've seen that from him on a consistent basis. Last season when we inevitably conceded goal after goal, all too often when he played he just stood there with his hands on his hips looking around. Don't really recall much leadership/vocal encouragment then. Like a lot of our players, he goes missing when the going gets tough on the pitch. 

Yep, if there are players in the team that aren't pulling their weight (as per most of the team last season) then the captain should be giving them an on-the-pitch bollocking. I don't recall seeing any such admonishing from Stephens last season....?

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Not sure what his best position is tbh, but I think it’s time for him to move on regardless. Doubt he’ll fancy being 4th choice (at best) striker either…

I'm in two minds as far as Armstrong is concerned. On balance, I think I'd rather have him in our squad than in one of our rivals'. On that basis alone, it's a "stick" rather than a twist from me. 

Edited 9 hours ago by trousers

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Problem with the captaincy thing is Jack pretty much gets it by default - by virtue of being the only one who will open his mouth and bark out encouragement / orders etc. 

Ideally you’d want a team with “three or four captains in it”, we have a nice, ‘play fair’ group. I thought JWP was pretty ineffective too for similar reasons - Arma was a ludicrous choice (never opened his mouth) and positionally Downes fits the bill, but not convinced by him either. Bednarek was vocal at least, but generally only ever whinged! 

We’ve been crying out for a Jimmy Case / Alan Ball type (of leader) for years. Someone players knew they had to perform around… or else! 

Yet another reason I want Ben mee. 

[AlexLaw76]

Armstrong is a good lad. Deserves a new deal I think 

[Saint86]

18 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Armstrong is a good lad. Deserves a new deal I think 

The hate for him certainly feels misplaced. Was incredible for us in the last promotion season.

[coalman]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

I didn't suggest we should.

Sorry. Wasn't suggesting you were just saying that giving Stephens a new contract is akin to extending Armstrong now.

[Forester]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

With Stephens getting an extension, what are thoughts of others expiring in 2026, pinched from @Over land and sea's super thread.

 2026

    Alex McCarthy
    James Bree
    Armel Bella-Kotchap
    Charlie Taylor
    Joe Aribo
    Will Smallbone
    Ryan Fraser
    Ross Stewart
    Dom Ballard

Bree would be one.  Fine in the Championship, and not the worst in our PL (low bar) season.

McCarthy could find himself first choice if Ramsdale goes, but is a decent back up to have)

No idea what happened with Taylor. If he works well under Still,he's got plenty of experience.

I'd love to see Will capture and I prove on his last Championship season. But I think he just did well under Martin, and might not suit other systems.

We won’t let Smallbone contract run down as would get a decent fee for him to a championship club. Same for Stewart if his fitness holds up

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I'm not really sure I've seen that from him on a consistent basis. Last season when we inevitably conceded goal after goal, all too often when he played he just stood there with his hands on his hips looking around. Don't really recall much leadership/vocal encouragment then. Like a lot of our players, he goes missing when the going gets tough on the pitch. 

 

1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

Tbf a lot of those hands on his hips looking around moments were when he was responsible for the conceded goal 🤣

Looking around for someone to blame.

[Gloucester Saint]

23 minutes ago, Forester said:

We won’t let Smallbone contract run down as would get a decent fee for him to a championship club. Same for Stewart if his fitness holds up

I’d let him go for a moderate fee (£2-3m) as he has ability at this level but locks you into a midfield-heavy system because he is poor off the ball in tracking, tackling unless his body matures. His value isn’t much if Still doesn’t want to deploy such a set-up.

On Stewart, let’s see how pre-season goes as he hasn’t had one properly since Covid arguably. 

Edited 8 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Thoughts on Stephens.

At this stage of his career, i cannot see him improving to ever be good enough to become a starting premier league CB. I hope this is considered within the wage he has been offered (i.e., wage promotion clause is smaller than for others for example). If not, i really don't understand the contract extension.

Stephens is a good enough player for the championship in fairness to him.

From a dressing room perspective, he is a character, and he does love the club - those are positives.

Since 2023/24 season, we've played under Jones, Selles, Martin, Juric, and Rusk. That is either managers that can't set up a team to defend if their lives depended on it, or (and - lets be honest) terrible sides - of which Stephens has played his part. But we've been unsettled at the back throughout that whole period and i'm willing to accept that may have coloured my overall view of him as a player.

Will Still though, is another proposition. His defensive setup is resilient - most clean sheets in the league last season with Lens (13), and that was despite losing a host of key players throughout the team. He also likes aggression, shithousery, and they had the most red cards (8😬😅)... Stephens will probably fit like a well worn glove. 

This may also be good for Bazunu in some ways - in that we won't be playing suicide football right in front of his goal, and we'll likely be limiting chances for sudden turnovers etc which is where so many of our goals against have come in previous years.

Some fair comments but it’s the length of the contract that has ruled so many. An extra year wouldn’t have elicited this reaction.

On Bazunu, at the risk of Agent Lighthouse appearing, Liege weren’t playing around their goal and he still leaked 2 a game and looked dreadful. Watch the highlights if you don’t believe me. Championship or the Belgian top flight is too high a standard at this stage in his career, needs to regain confidence in League 1 on a subsidised loan where he’s had a bit more joy. If he starts and makes more errors, that could be very toxic and the club really burned him by the sink or swim in the PL and Chanp last time. His stats were by far the worst and don’t lie on that sample size of games. 

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Some fair comments but it’s the length of the contract that has ruled so many. An extra year wouldn’t have elicited this reaction.

On Bazunu, at the risk of Agent Lighthouse appearing, Liege weren’t playing around their goal and he still leaked 2 a game and looked dreadful. Watch the highlights if you don’t believe me. Championship or the Belgian top flight is too high a standard at this stage in his career, needs to regain confidence in League 1 on a subsidised loan where he’s had a bit more joy. If he starts and makes more errors, that could be very toxic and the club really burned him by the sink or swim in the PL and Chanp last time. His stats were by far the worst and don’t lie on that sample size of games. 

I think goalkeeper is our big 'canary in the coalmine' position in terms of Still and Spors knowing their onions.  If Ramsdale goes, we need a new number one, simple as that. The tippy tappy in the eighteen yard box was probably Bazunu's 'best' attribute under Martin, it was the actual goalkeeping (physicality, decision-making, and shot stopping) which consistency let him down.

[SW11_Saint]

3 hours ago, saintant said:

Yet some approve of a 3 year contract for Stephens who is older and has had far less success than AA. Bonkers.

Yep. One is younger, has some resale value, is unlikely to get near a starting berth, and needs a reboot at another club. 

#Context

[Gloucester Saint]

8 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Yep. One is younger, has some resale value, is unlikely to get near a starting berth, and needs a reboot at another club. 

#Context

AA, for his faults, scored 20+ goals last time and the winner at Wembley. All of his managers disagree with Adam that he is better through the middle but I’ll give Martin this, he found a set up Armstrong thrived in. Now if he doesn’t fit Still’s preferred systems, and yes, there have been some hints via Alfie House, then a move probably is best.

But like Downes, do the club want to sell him to a direct promotion rival? Secondly, to suggest at Champ level with his record that he’s not near the first XI - nah, that’s daft talk.

[SW11_Saint]

3 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

AA, for his faults, scored 20+ goals last time and the winner at Wembley. All of his managers disagree with Adam that he is better through the middle but I’ll give Martin this, he found a set up Armstrong thrived in. Now if he doesn’t fit Still’s preferred systems, and yes, there have been some hints via Alfie House, then a move probably is best.

But like Downes, do the club want to sell him to a direct promotion rival? Secondly, to suggest at Champ level with his record that he’s not near the first XI - nah, that’s daft talk.

Well I just mean I think Downs, Stewart & Archer are all ahead of him in the pecking order.

Sometimes a move suits both club & player, and it feels a bit like that here. I can see him at somewhere like Boro. Might be that Still wants to utilise him wider though. 

[SW11_Saint]

3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

The hate for him certainly feels misplaced. Was incredible for us in the last promotion season.

What hate? Haven’t seen much (any?) disrespect for him? 

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Well I just mean I think Downs, Stewart & Archer are all ahead of him in the pecking order.

Sometimes a move suits both club & player, and it feels a bit like that here. I can see him at somewhere like Boro. Might be that Still wants to utilise him wider though. 

Stewart is a fitness risk though. Incredible comeback late last season, earned a ton of respect from me for that after almost 3 years out. I’d see him like we did David Connolly in 11/12 - runs of games and important goals/assists, runs of injury niggles and absences - but if he can have a similar level of output to that, maybe a few more games than David, than he’ll be well worth having around. You can’t assume or rely on it in transfer planning though, he’s a welcome bonus. Connolly had a lot more Champ experience than Stewart had though having said all that. 

So AA will need replacing if he goes. BBD you could argue has been superseded by Downs but BBD has the Champ experience right now, plus I’m not sure that unless Wrexham don’t think J Rod will last a season and Hardie needs a different type of partner, that he’s got much of a market (BBD) after three rank spells at clubs. I think he’s better than he’s shown but needs to be much fitter, the Martin regime really wasn’t for him.

Edited 5 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[SW11_Saint]

23 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Stewart is a fitness risk though. Incredible comeback late last season, earned a ton of respect from me for that after almost 3 years out. I’d see him like we did David Connolly in 11/12 - runs of games and important goals/assists, runs of injury niggles and absences - but if he can have a similar level of output to that, maybe a few more games than David, than he’ll be well worth having around. You can’t assume or rely on it in transfer planning though, he’s a welcome bonus. Connolly had a lot more Champ experience than Stewart had though having said all that. 

So AA will need replacing if he goes. BBD you could argue has been superseded by Downs but BBD has the Champ experience right now, plus I’m not sure that unless Wrexham don’t think J Rod will last a season and Hardie needs a different type of partner, that he’s got much of a market (BBD) after three rank spells at clubs. I think he’s better than he’s shown but needs to be much fitter, the Martin regime really wasn’t for him.

Agree, I know he’s persona non-grata (for some valid reasons), but I do have some sympathy for BBD. I thought he night be a decent, low risk acquisition last season (given his track record at Blackburn & Sheff Utd (1st time)), but like most of our squad he quickly confirmed that he is simply not PL standard, and on top of that was a square peg in a round hole.

This level is a different issue, but my biggest fear is whether there’s any way back for him with the fans? He sadly looked a broken man for us, with shattered confidence. If he stays, and hopes to turn things around he’d need to get off to a truly flying start. I wish him well, wherever he ends up (and especially if he stays!). 

Edited 5 hours ago by SW11_Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

3 hours ago, SW11_Saint said:

Agree, I know he’s persona non-grata (for some valid reasons), but I do have some sympathy for BBD. I thought he night be a decent, low risk acquisition last season (given his track record at Blackburn & Sheff Utd (1st time)), but like most of our squad he quickly confirmed that he is simply not PL standard, and on top of that was a square peg in a round hole.

This level is a different issue, but my biggest fear is whether there’s any way back for him with the fans? He sadly looked a broken man for us, with shattered confidence. If he stays, and hopes to turn things around he’d need to get off to a truly flying start. I wish him well, wherever he ends up (and especially if he stays!). 

As a forward though, one can go in off your shin, the fans cheer, then another at a level you know you get another one next game when you’re picked again and the confidence could return in the rest of your game.

Remember how Ricardo Fuller came back off loan, a brace v Cardiff, turned it around for part of a season before being sold to Stoke.

Harder for keepers and defenders in many ways. 

[SW11_Saint]

3 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

As a forward though, one can go in off your shin, the fans cheer, then another at a level you know you get another one next game when you’re picked again and the confidence could return in the rest of your game.

Remember how Ricardo Fuller came back off loan, a brace v Cardiff, turned it around for part of a season before being sold to Stoke.

Harder for keepers and defenders in many ways. 

That’s true. I hope then that our fans - assuming he stays - look at it as ‘clean slate’ for him, and we all just give it another go. 

[Sheaf Saint]

7 hours ago, trousers said:

Yep, if there are players in the team that aren't pulling their weight (as per most of the team last season) then the captain should be giving them an on-the-pitch bollocking. I don't recall seeing any such admonishing from Stephens last season....?

Probably because more often than not it was him that had fucked up when we conceded, and he probably felt a bit embarrassed at the idea of giving himself a bollocking in front of 30,000 people.

[StrangelyBrown]

8 hours ago, trousers said:

I'm in two minds as far as Armstrong is concerned. On balance, I think I'd rather have him in our squad than in one of our rivals'. On that basis alone, it's a "stick" rather than a twist from me. 

It's exactly that reason why I'd like Stephens to move on - id love it if it forwards played against him